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Religion Title: The Two Shall Become One Flesh In the Gospel of St. Mark, the Lord Jesus teaches that “from the beginning of creation ‘God made them male and female.’” He then declares a great and beautiful truth inscribed in creation: “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. So they are no longer two but one flesh” (Mark 10:6–8). For centuries, Christians have proclaimed these words at weddings, for they express the gift of marriage long recognized by all humanity and acknowledged by men and women of faith: Marriage is the union of a man and a woman. This truth is being obscured, even denied, today. Because of that, the institution of marriage, which is essential to the well-being of society, is being undermined. As Christians, it is our responsibility to bear witness to the truth about marriage as taught by both revelation and reason—by the Holy Scriptures and by the truths inscribed on the human heart. These age-old truths explain why Christians celebrate marriage—the coming-together of a man and woman in a binding union of mutual support—as one of the glories of the human race. Marriage is the primordial human institution, a reality that existed long before the establishment of what we now know as the state. As the most venerable and reliable basis for domestic happiness, marriage is the foundation of a just and stable society. Yet in our times this institution has been gravely weakened by the sexual revolution and the damage it has done to marriage and the family: widespread divorce; the dramatic increase in out-of-wedlock births; the casual acceptance of premarital sex and cohabitation; and a contraceptive mentality which insists that sex has an arbitrary relation to procreation. In this environment, families fragment, the poor suffer, and children are especially vulnerable and at risk. The decline of marriage culture is evident throughout the world, and where it is evident, the common good is imperiled. Poster Comment: God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. And God blessed them and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply.” (Gen. 1:27–28) Subscribe to *Religious History and Issues* Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Comments (1-14) not displayed.
Because the 1st Amendment only prohibits CONGRESS from meddling, and SCOTUS ain't Congress. Next you will be telling me States cannot establish their own church if they want. "Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7) #16. To: redleghunter (#8) It is a call by Christ to convict her heart of sin. Speculation
#17. To: Biff Tannen (#16) How so? "Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7) #18. To: redleghunter (#17) I don't see any way anyone could know for sure that it was a call to convict of sin. Therefore, to say that's what it was, is speculation.
#19. To: redleghunter (#17) And, anyway, what your verses and my verses show, is that despite His intentions of what He wants marriage to be He recognizes that it works out differently down here on earth. In Moses day he makes allowances for it. So, give it a rest with all this gay marriage nonsense. You care about it more than God does. Meanwhile, there's still hungry kids out there ...
#20. To: redleghunter, All (#0) As Christians, it is our responsibility to bear witness to the truth about marriage as taught by both revelation and reason—by the Holy Scriptures and by the truths inscribed on the human heart. But as Americans we must also recognize that we live under a secular government by choice and design. And as with every society since the beginning of mankind what may be legal may not always be moral and what may be moral may not always be legal. Would you prefer to live on a Judeo-Christian version of Sharia law? потому что Бог хочет это тот путь #21. To: SOSO (#20) Would you prefer to live on a Judeo-Christian version of Sharia law? How'bout just living on biological, natural, fact?
#22. To: Willie Green (#5) If the gays want to get "married," that's fine by me... But it isn't alright to normal people. What you said is sicko Willie.
#23. To: Biff Tannen (#18) What did Jesus say before the husband comments? "Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7) #24. To: Biff Tannen (#19) And, anyway, what your verses and my verses show, is that despite His intentions of what He wants marriage to be He recognizes that it works out differently down here on earth. In Moses day he makes allowances for it. Feed the hungry kids. My family gladly does so. But on marriage you have a point. Jesus Christ gave us His standard for marriage. So He is very interested.
If you are claiming Christ had no interest in the woman's relationships with men, then why did He bring it up? Same reason He brought up other people's obstacles to the Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus Christ never condoned sin. He came to blot out sin. "Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7) #25. To: SOSO (#20) Would you prefer to live on a Judeo-Christian version of Sharia law? Of course not. What this article points out Christians have a voice in the nation they founded. "Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7) #26. To: redleghunter (#25) Of course not. A voice not the voice. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь #27. To: VxH (#21) How'bout just living on biological, natural, fact? What is the biological, natural facts about love? I do not support the gay lifestyle, especially in those cases in which it is persued by choice. That said I cannot in any good conscience as an Amercian, as a Catholic see how gays can be, should be denied the rights enjoyed by straight people under the U.S. Constitution and State laws without a compelling state (read secular) reason for doing so. I have yet to be even slightly persuaded that gay civil unions represent an existential threat to the family or the fabric of society. Gays exist in nature, they are of nature. If you are a Christian you must believe that they are of God as well. We are not fanatical Islamists that believe that they must be killed. We must find a way to coexist in an fully integrated society that among other things believes that all men are created equal, that all men are equal under the law, and, in freedom of religion, all religion (even none). Leave it to God to sought us out. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь #28. To: SOSO (#26) A voice not the voice. Secular atheism is the official government church now. Just have to walk in a school today. Secular atheism as an established religion is unconstitutional. "Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7) #29. To: redleghunter (#28) Secular atheism is the official government church now. Just have to walk in a school today. Then why are many public schools requiring students to learn about Islam? потому что Бог хочет это тот путь #30. To: Biff Tannen, redleghunter (#19) Give it a rest with all this gay marriage nonsense. "Gay marriage nonsense"? Caring "about it more than God does"?? Congratulations. In keeping with your posting history of monumental idiocy and foolishness, somehow, someway, you've managed to top yourself this time.
#31. To: SOSO (#27) (Edited) I cannot in any good conscience as an Amercian, as a Catholic see how gays can be, should be denied the rights enjoyed by straight people under the U.S. Constitution and State laws without a compelling state (read secular) reason for doing so.
Cut the drama and hysterics. Homos are NOT "denied" ANY THING but the hijacking of the language AND the time-honored union of man and wife -- better known to the sane as "Marriage." YOU are a willing stooge to a massive brainwashing campaign. Weak. VERY weak. I have yet to be even slightly persuaded that gay civil unions represent an existential threat to the family or the fabric of society. Not even the slightest, eh? That's because you are painfully disconnected from reality and utterly manipulated. Baaaaah. Baaaah.
#32. To: redleghunter (#28) Secular atheism as an established religion is unconstitutional. Amen. (Don't try and explain that obvious fact to the WEAK, cultural surrender monkeys.)
#33. To: SOSO (#27) I do not support the gay lifestyle... No, not much. Only gay marriage.
#34. To: SOSO, redleghunter, VxH, All (#20) Would you prefer to live on a Judeo-Christian version of Sharia law? The intellectual contortionism it takes to submit such a bull*** premise should make you feel ashamed. But of course it doesn't, because your agenda betrays you.
#35. To: redleghunter, Biff Tannen, SOSO (#24) If you are claiming Christ had no interest in the woman's relationships with men, then why did He bring it up? Same reason He brought up other people's obstacles to the Kingdom of Heaven. Those who deny Christ's clarity on the relationship on man and woman, man and wife speak to a conscious decision to be either the wheat, or the chaff that blows in the wind.
#36. To: Willie Green, redleghunter (#14) (Edited) Yes, as a matter of fact, choo-choo trains ARE a lot more important than gay marriage. Yes, gay marriage is even less important than choo-trains. But let it be noted that choo-choo trains are priority #9,987,654,556 compared to the defending the obvious constitutionality of the Bible -- which you oddly claim is "unconstitutional." You know what should be "unconstitutional"? Monumental STUPIDITY and IGNORANCE. They're both rife on this thread.
#37. To: Willie Green (#5) If the gays want to get "married," that's fine by me... It's not as if their fornication will actually lead to procreation and produce a bunch of gay children who outnumber the straights. Fine by you? Yeah, it's not as though sanctioning perversion will lead to a corrupt sense of righteousness, a perved-out society, moral relativism, and dead and dying souls. No big deal, eh?
#38. To: Liberator (#33) I do not support the gay lifestyle... Why are you such an ass clown? It seems to come with the terrioty of being a mindless, knee jerk fundamenatlist "good" loving Christian. Well your membership card is punched for the day. Tell me, slef proclaimed Jesus lover, what is the legal basis in American for denying gays the right to a Civil union? Note, ass clown, that I did not say marriage but civil union. Get your holy head out of your holy ass. If you wish to have a rational, civil discussion about this I am more than happy to engage. If not, f*ck you and the faux cross you rode in on. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь #39. To: Liberator, redleghunter, VxH, All (#34)
My agenda? Which is what, ass clown? потому что Бог хочет это тот путь #40. To: SOSO (#29) Then why are many public schools requiring students to learn about Islam? The atheists are scared of Muslims. They burn people and chop off heads. All American Christians do is complain or sue. "Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7) #41. To: SOSO (#39) Do you believe in absolutes? "Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7) #42. To: redleghunter (#41) Do you believe in absolutes? Very likely in the same manner as you. Why do you ask? потому что Бог хочет это тот путь #43. To: SOSO (#42) Do you believe in absolutes? Then why do you comment as if you don't? "Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7) #44. To: redleghunter (#0) God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; I believe the diametrically opposing viewpoint. Man created God in his own image.
#45. To: Pridie.Nones (#44) I believe the diametrically opposing viewpoint. Man created God in his own image. Allow me to correct the thought a bit. Man creates his own god each day in his own mind and then uses his own hands to mold the idol of his passions. It has been the pagan hedonist way since the fall of man. "Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7) #46. To: redleghunter (#43)
Be specifc. What comment(s) exactly? потому что Бог хочет это тот путь #47. To: SOSO (#46) The equal footing you put with gay "marriage" compared to historical marriage. Either the one or the other is right but not both. And why does even secular government support both while knowing it is either one or the other. Both can't be right. "Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7) #48. To: redleghunter (#45) It has been the pagan hedonist way since the fall of man. All traditional religions (and followers therof) are victim of the same caricature; you can not escape the conundrum, no matter how much effort you place in escaping the enigmatic experience of consciousness; you are creating god within your own mind.
#49. To: Pridie.Nones (#48) All traditional religions (and followers therof) are victim of the same caricature; you can not escape the conundrum, no matter how much effort you place in escaping the enigmatic experience of consciousness; you are creating god within your own mind. A presupposition on your part. The Scriptures are God's revelation to mankind. Unless you have examined such your comments will continue to be suppositions and assertions. Assertions are not arguments. "Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7) #50. To: redleghunter (#47)
I have done no such thing. If you bothered to read my comments I never used the term gay marriage but rather civil union. You know full well that I make a clear distinction between civil union and marriage. The former being a state sanctioned/recognized form of contract or formal relationship, the latter being the same thing but with a voluntarily religious or spiritiual formality to it. You also know full well that every religious marriage is first and foremost a civil union. I never equated civil union to marriage as traditionally defined by religious institutions or even to historical marraige. As for for historical marriage, was it not common in most of the known world in more ancient times for a man to have more than one wife? Times changed, no? I find your pursuit of this line of attack at bit disingenuous on your part. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь #51. To: redleghunter (#49) Just as your Bible is nothing more than an "assertion." You regard the assertion as "truth." But there is no proof other than a myth that you genuinely follow; it is a problem but you hide from within your own antics.
#52. To: SOSO (#50) Was not an attack but a discussion point. "Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7) #53. To: redleghunter (#52) Was not an attack but a discussion point. You knowingly put words in my mouth that you know were not true. That's more than a discussion point. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь #54. To: Pridie.Nones (#51) Proof is subjective. Evidence is objective. That just may be a stumbling block for you. "Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7) #55. To: redleghunter (#54) I said this:
Just as your Bible is nothing more than an "assertion." You regard the assertion as "truth." But there is no proof other than a myth that you genuinely follow; it is a problem but you hide from within your own antics. You said that:
Proof is subjective.
Evidence is objective.
That just may be a stumbling block for you. So lets parse what I said to understand the context... Just as your Bible is nothing more than an "assertion." You regard the assertion as "truth." But there is no proof other than a myth that you genuinely follow; Did you not know what a "myth" is? Lets get a merriam-webster definition of "myth" ... Full Definition of MYTH 1 a : a usually traditional story of ostensibly historical events that serves to unfold part of the world view of a people or explain a practice, belief, or natural phenomenon So, your later reply was silly, at best, as it did not add to the discussion. In fact, your later reply actually subdues any merits of your discussion while supporting my contention. You blew your own argument, I guess you can say.
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