Fallible and uninspired meninterpreters have assumed dominion over the faith of others....

NO SALE.

So Men will rule the Earth, and better yet NATO?

Satanic blather.....

NATO, global warming, and Trump. No Jeb!?

Yeah right. /s

So Men will rule the Earth, and better yet NATO?

Of course. God always works through men. In the Old Testament it was Isreal. And now it is through Christian nations. (The God of the OT is the God of the NT)

NATO, global warming, and Trump. No Jeb!?

Yeah right. /s

There is no longer any need for another Bush. Now we have Trump, the latest Episcopalian to rule the US (and/or the world). Everything is back to normal and fine now.

There is no longer any need for another Bush. Now we have Trump, the latest Episcopalian to rule the US (and/or the world). Everything is back to normal and fine now.

Trump is Presbyterian. He thinks it's the greatest.

He does attend X-mas services at the local Episcopal church near Mar-a-lago though.

Everything is back to normal and fine now.

Does this mean the IRS won't kick my ass anymore?

Does this mean the IRS won't kick my ass anymore?

The fake episcopalian Trump did grant a pardon to that meat-packer who had 400 illegal aliens working for him, so there might be a chance for you too?

It is hard to believe Trump is Christian, he certainly missed the Jesus message

Is is true that Trump used to be a Presbyterian. Now he is a member of Mar-a- Lago's Episcopal Church, and attends pretty much every Sunday with his wife and kid. Its where they got married, and where their child (Barry) was Baptized.

It is hard to believe Trump is Christian, he certainly missed the Jesus message

Well, he's not perfect. Only Jesus was/is perfect

It is hard to believe Trump is Christian, he certainly missed the Jesus message Well, he's not perfect. Only Jesus was/is perfect

Don't give me platitudes, we each have a moral responsibility

Don't give me platitudes, we each have a moral responsibility

Not sure what you mean by that. Trump has a moral responsibilty to defend our nation from terrorists, etc. Back in the day, that was the only responsibilty of the king, and I for one think we should go back to that concept and let the Churches take care of needy like God intended.

Is is true that Trump used to be a Presbyterian. Now he is a member of Mar-a- Lago's Episcopal Church, and attends pretty much every Sunday with his wife and kid. Its where they got married, and where their child (Barry) was Baptized.

Are you sure? I recall him specifically bragging about being a Presbyterian and poking fun at other (lesser) Prot types. Like Ben Carson's Seventh Day Advent beliefs which he was trying to make fun of but didn't know anything about to begin with.

Donald Trump boasted about his faith as a Presbyterian during a rally on Saturday, where he contrasted it with the Seventh Day Adventist faith that Ben Carson ascribes to. "I love Iowa. And, look, I don't have to say it, I'm Presbyterian. Can you believe it? Nobody believes I'm Presbyterian. I'm Presbyterian. I'm Presbyterian. I'm Presbyterian," he told a packed house in Florida. "Boy, that's down the middle of the road folks, in all fairness. I mean, Seventh Day Adventist, I don't know about. I just don't know about."

Trump's parents were lifelong Presbyterians and they attended that Presby church in NYC where Norman Vincent Peale preached for 50+ years. He wrote that book "The Power Of Positive Thinking". So I think that those kinds of doctrine-free sermons is what Trump thinks Christianity actually is.

Donald Trump's parents, Fred and Mary, worshipped at Marble Collegiate, and both of their funeral services were held there. Donald and both of his sisters were married in the church. "I still remember [Peale’s] sermons," Trump told the Iowa Family Leadership Summit in July, Politico reported. "You could listen to him all day long. And when you left the church, you were disappointed it was over. He was the greatest guy."

A lot of Peale's critics would point to Trump as the perfect example of what his kind of "preaching" produces in terms of doctrinal Presbyterianism.

This also explains why Trump readily admitted he has never asked God for forgiveness of any sins ever. He really likes the little wine and the little cracker though.

Evangelical Presbyterians will find themselves offended by Trump’s trivialization of the need to ask God for forgiveness. During Saturday’s Q&A Trump was asked whether he has ever asked God for forgiveness. CNN reports that Trump answered, “I am not sure I have. I just go on and try to do a better job from there. I don’t think so,” he said. “I think if I do something wrong, I think, I just try and make it right. I don’t bring God into that picture. I don’t.” For the evangelical, there is no Christian faith without the understanding that in Jesus Christ God took the sins of humanity upon himself, creating the possibility of an individual’s salvation—which includes asking God to exchange the sinner’s sinfulness with Jesus’ perfect righteousness. Theologically orthodox Presbyterians, for whom the marks of the true church include the “right administration of the Lord’s supper,” are going to gag on Trump’s trivialization of the sacrament of communion. Although Trump admitted having not asked God for forgiveness, he said he does participate in Holy Communion. “When I drink my little wine—which is about the only wine I drink—and have my little cracker, I guess that is a form of asking for forgiveness, and I do that as often as possible because I feel cleansed.” For Christians, including every brand of Presbyterian, the wine to which Trump so casually refers is understood to be representative of the blood of Jesus Christ. And that “little cracker” is the body of the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

You'd think someone would have explained the fundamentals of orthodox Christian doctrine to Trump (and they probably have more than once). But he just doesn't care.

OTOH, Trump didn't try to lie to us about what kind of "Christian" he is. And people knew this well before they voted for him, as early as the Iowa caucus when there was plenty of time to unite behind other candidates. But Trump still won it. The media thinks the Christian Right bought into it. I think the Right decided that all the Bible-toting pols they've voted for before didn't get anything done and they trusted that Trump would pander shamelessly to them because he wants power and to have his (gilded) name engraved in history books, all real classy stuff.

Trump will no doubt also have to take out the evil Ayatollah Khomeini,

Huh? That booger died a couple of decades ago. My favorite part of his funeral was when his pallbearers stumbled and dumped him out on the ground. Damn shame a dog didn't run up and take a dump on his face.

Melania is Catholic. I think Trump moved Episcopalian to come as close as possible while staying Protestant.

While he was campaigning, Trump was a Presbyterian, but not anymore. Like pretty much every president we have had lately, the president at some point left his Church and joined his wife's (like both Jeb and George W and now Trump. Heck I am pretty much exactly the same way. Including my wife (ex- wife) the Church I ended up going to was always the Church my significant other belonged to. When I think about it, we men need to have more backbone (or balls) but who am I to talk.

Melania is Catholic. I think Trump moved Episcopalian to come as close as possible while staying Protestant.

Wash your mouth out with soap. Melania has never been a Catholic or even attended a Catholic Church in her life as far as I know. Her dad would not permit it or even let her attend an Eastern Orthodox Church because he was an atheist from hell. The first time she attended Church was in America, and she chose the Episcopal Church, and has been there ever since.

Huh? That booger died a couple of decades ago. My favorite part of his funeral was when his pallbearers stumbled and dumped him out on the ground. Damn shame a dog didn't run up and take a dump on his face.

That is probably the dumbest and completely untrue post I've heard yet (if that were possible). In case you dont know it, when one Ayatolla dies, another one replaces him within a couple days.

Melania Trump was baptized Catholic in her native Slovenia by her mother and the parish priest in her hometown, in 1970. When she visited the Pope, she brought her own personal rosary for him to bless it. Melania Trump is Catholic

Having emigrated to the US and married a Presbyterian husband, it is entirely possible that he moved to the Episcopalians and she did also, so they would be on as common ground as possible.

But Melania was Catholic - born and baptized (though probably not much churched, in the Communist Yugoslavia of her youth).

In case you dont know it, when one Ayatolla dies, another one replaces him within a couple days.

Iran is just making it up as they go.

The original Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini died in 1989 and was replaced by the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei (after a funeral that rivalled Mussolini's for sheer spectacle). No blood relation. Khamenei has been in power ever since as the Supreme Leader of Iran, kind of a theocratic dicatator-for-life that relies for his power on the morality police and Iran's Republican Guard.

I bet Trump would just love to have a title like Supreme Leader. It would fit him. We really should find a flashy uniform for Trump to wear on ceremonial occasions. He would eat that stuff up.

Melania Trump was baptized Catholic in her native Slovenia by her mother and the parish priest in her hometown, in 1970. When she visited the Pope, she brought her own personal rosary for him to bless it. Melania Trump is Catholic

Having emigrated to the US and married a Presbyterian husband, it is entirely possible that he moved to the Episcopalians and she did also, so they would be on as common ground as possible.

But Melania was Catholic - born and baptized (though probably not much churched, in the Communist Yugoslavia of her youth).

Like I already told you, Melania was not allowed to even attend the Catholic Church, much less be baptized. Her dad was a very high-ranking atheist (Communist) official who's job it was to put people to death for attending the Ronan Catholic Church. He probably would have killed even his own daughter if she would have done what you so ridiculously claim.

The original Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini died in 1989 and was replaced by the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei (after a funeral that rivalled Mussolini's for sheer spectacle). No blood relation. Khamenei has been in power ever since as the Supreme Leader of Iran, kind of a theocratic dicatator-for-life that relies for his power on the morality police and Iran's Republican Guard.

Isn't that exactly what I just said?? You just like to argue all the time even when we agree and are saying the exact same thing.

Like I already told you, Melania was not allowed to even attend the Catholic Church, much less be baptized. Her dad was a very high-ranking atheist (Communist) official who's job it was to put people to death for attending the Ronan Catholic Church. He probably would have killed even his own daughter if she would have done what you so ridiculously claim.

You are delusional. Russian Orthodox Priest was a KGB career field. The commies LOVED for people to go to church to confess. Stalin went to Divinity School before going into politics.

That is probably the dumbest and completely untrue post I've heard yet (if that were possible). In case you dont know it, when one Ayatolla dies, another one replaces him within a couple days.

Speaking of dumb,you wrote "the Ayatollah Khomeini. Khomeini is DEAD,DOOD!

if she would have done what you so ridiculously claim.

My claim is true: Melania Trump was baptized a Catholic, as a baby, by her mother in Slovenia. That's simply a fact of history, duly recorded in the baptismal records. She had her rosary blessed by the Pope when she visited.

Why are you insulting me over historical fact.

So her dad was a Communist atheist. Mine was an atheist with Communist leanings in his youth. But my mom was Catholic, so I was baptized Catholic. Just like Melania. Women are bitchy and difficult and force men into all sorts of compromises they don't want to do on principle - and if the men won't yield, women will go ahead and do what they want anyway.

Whether her dad agreed or not, Melania's mom baptized her. and Melania is Catholic.

I wasn't churched as a kid either. Doesn't mean I wasn't, or am not, Catholic.

The Episcopalians are probably the common ground that Donald and Melania found regarding religion.

There is no need to insult me over simple historical fact.

Her dad was a very high-ranking atheist (Communist) official who's job it was to put people to death for attending the Ronan Catholic Church.

This is a fabrication. Catholicism was legal in Communist Yugoslavia, and the people practiced it. They were not hounded down and put to death for it. The Church was forbidden participation in politics (which it resisted, subtly), but the Catholic Churches were not shut down, were not illegal, and people continued to be baptized in them, married in them, had funerals in them, etc.

And in Serbia, the same was true of the Orthodox church.

Melania's father may have been an atheist Communist fanatic, but he was not charged with huntind down and killing Catholics who went to Church, because Tito's Yugoslavia didn't do that. And his wife, Melania's mother, was Catholic, and had Melania baptized - whether the father knew that or not, who can say?

These things are history. Let's not make up crazy things that didn't happen.

Secret Catholic handshake, caught on camera.

Melania Trump Is First Catholic to Live in White House Since JFK

After Melania Trump met with Pope Francis in the Vatican Wednesday, her spokeswoman confirmed that the First Lady is indeed a Roman Catholic, the first to occupy her post since Jackie Kennedy.

The last time the United States had a Catholic as First Lady was during the presidency of John F. Kennedy, whose wife Jackie Kennedy—like him—was a Roman Catholic. When Melania moves into the White House together with their son Barron this summer, she will become the first Catholic occupant of the White House since the Kennedy era.

On meeting the Pope Wednesday, Melania asked him to bless her rosary and later visited the Bambin Gesù (Baby Jesus) pediatric hospital, where she met with young patients and their families, prayed in a chapel and laid flowers at the feet of a statue of the Virgin Mary.

Later that day, the First Lady’s spokeswoman Stephanie Grisham confirmed to DailMail.com that Melania is a practicing Catholic.

I dont know about the rest of Yugoslavia, but in Slovenia the Roman Catholics were severely persecuted (by Melania's father).

Then the spokesperson either told a bald-faced lie or made up some fake news to make Melania sound more appealing to the Pope and the Roman Catholics. Melania is not, and never has been a Roman Catholic.

Actually Melania is a Catholic, but an Anglo-Catholic, not Roman-Catholic. All Episcopalians consider themselves to be a member of the Catholic Church. In that sense the spokeswoman is right. I miss-spoke when I suggested the spokesperson told a bold-face lie. He was telling the truth. Melania is indeed a practicing Catholic (of the Anglican variety).

of the Anglican variety).

I didn't know there were two kinds of Catholics. Well they aren't really Catholics but Anglicans. Apparently they were "Catholic", but when the Roman Catholic variety drifted from scripture by appointing a "pope" ruler over the churches and calling him holy father the Anglicans chose to follow God instead of the pope man. That would mean that the Roman Catholic s are imposters, and if there was a church founded but Peter it would be the Anglicans and not the blasphemous Roman Catholics.

The above comment is for you too Vic. It should make for some interesting threads in the future. Should you decide to participate.

In that case it was probably like you (or someone) suggested. Her Mom snuck her into the Church when dad wasn't looking, And I am pretty sure that Melania does not remember what happened when she was a baby so its a moot point.

Melania is a practicing Catholic.

A. Who cares

B. She'll have the money to "buy" an annulment before the trial, just like shit-head jr.'s wife

Melania's mother, was Catholic, and had Melania baptized - whether the father knew that or not, who can say?

According to your beliefs which are probably the Catholic churches beliefs. What is the point in getting baptized as a baby? Does it make them Catholic? If so are they still Catholic if they decide to become Baptists later in life?

Honestly baby baptizing isn't scriptural is it?

Shouldn't people come to a decision about it on their own and choose to do it?

Because baptizing babies honestly sounds kind of unbiblical idoltry type behavior. Idoltry probably isn't the right word.

You are really hostile to a president who is doing great things.

Could you give me your top 3 to five things that make you feel that way. You can leave his appointing pro life judges off your list, I already know that one about you.

didn't know there were two kinds of Catholics. Well they aren't really Catholics but Anglicans. Apparently they were "Catholic", but when the Roman Catholic variety drifted from scripture by appointing a "pope" ruler over the churches and calling him holy father the Anglicans chose to follow God instead of the pope man. That would mean that the Roman Catholic s are imposters, and if there was a church founded but Peter it would be the Anglicans and not the blasphemous Roman Catholics.

That is pretty much the way I see it too, except I am not quite as hard on the Roman Church as you are. BTW, Peter founded the Jerusalem and Antioch Churches (and quite possibly the Anglican and Alexandrian Churches) long before he made it to Rome and started a fifth Church.

I have no doubt that Catholics, who, as in Poland, used the Church as a mask behind which they communicated and organized political dissent, and protected dissenters, were persecuted by Tito’s regime. But Catholics were not hunted down and killed for going to Church, the Churches were not closed. Nor were they co-opted into the government. They were similar to what they were in Castro’s Cuba or Communist Poland or 18th Century British-occupied Ireland: a closely - watched, officially suspect, Ill-treated but legal institution. To be Catholic was to be distrusted and barred from government power. But itdidn’t Mean getting slaughtered. It did in 17th Century Ireland, at the hands of Cromwell and the English, but in the end Cromwell lost. The English were unable to destroy Catholicism in Ireland, and were not able to crush out the Church. Tito did not go the route of extermination in Yugoslavia, just as Castro didn’t try to exterminate the Church in Cuba. Persecuted? Yes. Massacred? No.

Melania is not, and never has been a Roman Catholic.

Yes she is.

The evidence is obvious. I'm now a Trump fan.

I didn't know there were two kinds of Catholics.

Don't forget Lutherans - "More catholic than Catholic".

And when one farts all the angels dance in Hea... {err} hmm, no wait. That's not how that goes.

Well, he's not perfect. Only Jesus was/is perfect

Well, Jesus didn't pay the woman at the well $130000 to keep quiet about his alleged adultery and then forget to sign the binding agreement either.

Just my opinion - But I'd expect someone who'd undergone an honest conversion would just say, "hey that was the old Adam... I'm not him anymore" - instead of trying to cover it up.

So, I'm skeptical that his behavior indicates that his religious epiphany is anything more than a political convenience.

But Catholics were not hunted down and killed for going to Church, the Churches were not closed.

Keep doing good job in trying to deprogram those guys. They are brainwashed by the dark forces, lying along the mental road, in a need of a good Samaritan.

Melania is not, and never has been a Roman Catholic.

And you know this because...?

You don't know this. She was baptized as a baby, which makes her Catholic until she does something about it. She never did anything about it, practices the religion as an adult, including taking that Marian rosary to the Pope to have it blessed when she met him.

That Melania is a Catholic doesn't fit one of your narratives, one of the stories by which you shape your view of the world, so you deny it loudly, but without any basis. That doesn't change anything.

didn't know there were two kinds of Catholics. Well they aren't really Catholics but Anglicans. Apparently they were "Catholic", but when the Roman Catholic variety drifted from scripture by appointing a "pope" ruler over the churches and calling him holy father the Anglicans chose to follow God instead of the pope man.

There are 23 different kinds of Catholics. What distinguishes them from the other forms of Christianity )Orthodox and Protestant) is that all 23 Catholic Churches and their members consider the Pope to be the head of the Church on earth. The largest of the Catholic Churches, comprising about 90% of Catholics, is the Roman Catholic Church, also known as the Latin Rite. Other Catholic Churches include the Byzantine Catholic Church, the Melkites, the (Eastern and Western Syrian Rites, i(Which include the Syro-Malabar Catholic Church, the Chaldean Catholic Church, etc.), the Copts, the Ruthenians, the Armenian Rite, the Maronites, etc. Now there is an Anglican Use in the Latin Church, which is moving towards an Anglican Rite.

The Anglican Church itself has a simple and well-known history. The English were all Catholic until the age of Martin Luther. England remained Catholic and did not go Lutheran, but then the English King, Henry VIII, wanted a divorce. The Catholic Church forbade divorce. She he broke with the Pope and made himself the head of the Church in England. He did not, however, go Protestant. He declared himself the head of the English Church, but blocked the Reformation from proceeding further in England.

It proceeded further anyway, within the Anglican Church, and that division accelerated as Henry aged. By the time of his daughter Elizabeth, the Anglican Church had become a Protestant Church, but maintained the episcopacy (the Bishops), the priesthood, and many of the sacraments of Catholicism, but it severely persecuted its rival, Catholicism, within England. Eventually the English Church went full Calvinist Puritan during Cromwell's reign after the English Civil War, but puritanism did not ride well with the English people, many of whom became recusants and privately practiced Catholicism. When Cromwell died, the English invited the Stuarts back to be King, and Charles II, who had been raised at the Catholic Court of Louis XIV during the Cromwell dictatorship, came back to England and took the Church of England back towards a very Catholic-looking and sounding religion. With no heirs, the political classes of England tolerated a Catholic king, and probably would have tolerated his brother, James II, who was a much more vocal Catholic. But then James' wife conceived a child, and suddenly the English throne looked to be populated by a Catholic heir. The Glorious Revolution of 1688 ended that.

But as time drifted forward into the 19th and 20th Centuries, and England found itself allied with Catholic powers (Spain, then France), and reconciled itself to religious tolerance, the outright Catholic population has steadily grown, and the Anglican Church has tried to find a middle way - maintaining a very catholic looking and feeling "High Church", and a protestant looking "low church".

With the ordination of women and open homosexuals as bishops and priests, conservative Anglicans have increasingly found themselves unwelcome in their own church and have "swum the Tiber" in large numbers. This, in turn, led the Popes, particularly Pope Benedict, to create an "Anglican Use" within the Catholic Church, that uses a slightly modified Book of Common Prayer, and admits married Anglican priests as married Catholic priests. Of course the Protestant Anglicans view this as poaching, and many Protestant Anglicans call themselves "Anglo-Catholics" because the Anglican service is essentially an old mass. But this is their own name for themselves. Actually Anglican Use Catholics are Catholic: they are in unity with Rome. If you're not in unity with Rome, you're not Catholic, though you may be Orthodox.

The Anglo-Catholic Anglicans are not Catholic, because they are not in union with the Pope, and they are not Orthodox, because they have abandoned several of the Sacraments, notably Confession. It looks Catholic, it calls its priests "father", it sounds Catholic, it likes to style itself Catholic, but it isn't Catholic - and it's dying out due to liberal politics. Conservatives swim the Tiber, and Pope Benedict XVI basically built them a bridge so they can walk right in without getting their feet wet.

The bitterness between the Irish and the English over the centuries was primarily caused by the fact that the Irish refused to stop being Catholics, and the English tried to violently suppress Irish Catholicism. They failed quite miserably: the Irisih rejected the English Church and stuck with Rome, and the violence the English used to try to crush out Catholicism only made the Irish irreconcilable to England, and caused them to be the first out of the Empire.

ccording to your beliefs which are probably the Catholic churches beliefs. What is the point in getting baptized as a baby? Does it make them Catholic? If so are they still Catholic if they decide to become Baptists later in life?

Honestly baby baptizing isn't scriptural is it?

Shouldn't people come to a decision about it on their own and choose to do it?

Because baptizing babies honestly sounds kind of unbiblical idoltry type behavior. Idoltry probably isn't the right word.

Well your post wasn't to me, and I dont know what Vic believes, but I can tell you what I believe. I could probably write a whole book on this subject, but let me sum it up by saying I am an Anabaptist. Notice that I said Ana- Baptist and not Southern Baptist. An Anabaptist is an Anglican (or Episcopalian) who believes that its perfectly alright to Baptize babies. (The Book of Acts says, following the Pentecost the disciples baptized whole families). But Anabaptists believe that a baby should be re-baptized when they reach the age of accountability. (Generally, for most kids (and most Churches), anywhere between 12 and 14). I did not grow up in the Episcopal Church, but I was baptized in the Nazarene Church (a branch of the Methodist Church) at age 14. Later, in my 60's, I was rebaptized in an Episcopal Church by a bishop descended from ST. Peter and with the water he used (from the Jordan River). It doesn't hurt to be baptized twice (better to be on the safe side).

Wow, we must have posted at the same time. Anyhow, we now also know what Vic believes. Anyone else want to chime in on the subject of Baptism?

There are 23 different kinds of Catholics. What distinguishes them from the other forms of Christianity )Orthodox and Protestant) is that all 23 Catholic Churches and their members consider the Pope to be the head of the Church on earth.

I didn't read your entire comment yet but let me start here.

I read that the Anglicans split from the Catholic Church because the pope. I admit it was a brief reading that I did to come to that conclusion.

I skimmed your comment a bit and I now see you say Anglicans aren't Catholic.

Well, that's a pretty long post, and I will have to say I agree with most of it, but not all. First, while are no longer in communion with the Roman Church, we are now in the (long) process of coming back together in full communion with the Orthodox Church(es). About 20 years ago, the Archbishop of Canterbury for the first time in history, gave permission for Anglicans to say the Nicene Creed either the western (Roman) way or eastern (Orthodox) way which was the first step, and allowed Canterbury to enter talks with the head honcho of the Orthodox Church (in Constantinople). And every year since then they have been meeting and we (the Anglican Churches) are now close (very close) to being in full communion with the six Orthodox Churches (as prophesied in the Bible). When that happens, and the western lampstand is restored -- but in Canterbury, and likely not Rome (as long as the present Pope is in power) -- the seven golden lampstands of the Church will again rule the Earth together united as one as at first -- and this time for a thousand years. Actually it will be 24 nations descended from the seven golden lampstands (or 8 lampstands if you include both Canterbury AND Rome).

As for the conflict between the Irish Catholics and the Anglicans, well that is a very long conflict that goes back about a thousand years, and you have over-simplified it and have over-slanted it towards the Irish (or Roman Catholic) side. They were the blood thirsty ones who when they were in power (as with Bloody Mary) slaughtered all the Anglican priests and bishops who refused to say the Mass (or (Eucharist) the Roman way. The two versions are identical except for the placement of one word. Where the Irish Catholics say "the blessed ever-virgin Mary", we say the ever-blessed Virgin Mary. That's the only difference. They worship Mary. We worship Jesus.

Not sure what any of that has to do with baptism though which (I think) is what Stone was asking about.