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Title: Pentagon Claims U.S. Has Enough Arms for Israel and Ukraine
Source: The New American
URL Source: https://thenewamerican.com/us/polit ... h-arms-for-israel-and-ukraine/
Published: Oct 12, 2023
Author: Angeline Tan
Post Date: 2023-10-12 00:12:24 by Charles_Byrd
Keywords: None
Views: 433
Comments: 3

Top White House officials are mulling whether to include more Ukraine aid in an emergency aid package for Israel, multiple news outlets reported on October 9, with one official even hinting that the decision would compel “far-right” lawmakers to approve additional aid for the Kyiv regime.

Although President Joe Biden had already declared that military aid was “on its way” to Israel following the unexpected assault by radical Palestinian militants on October 7, the White House has indicated that it would soon petition Congress to authorize additional aid for the Jewish state.

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#1. To: Charles_Byrd (#0)

Link them. The hard right Republicans are wrong on Ukraine. So link the issues. Defeat the hard right with the whole center of the Republicans AND Democrats.

Vicomte13  posted on  2023-10-12   8:07:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#2. To: Vicomte13 (#1)

Link them. The hard right Republicans are wrong on Ukraine. So link the issues.

So your tactics are blackmail. Can't have people vote their conscience with single issue legislation.

That is part of what is wrong with the government.

I'd do it too though.

A K A Stone  posted on  2023-10-12   9:56:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

#3. To: A K A Stone (#2) (Edited)

No, it is not blackmail. It's called politics. Congressional politics never have been a matter of some small minority, however "principled" they think they are, ever getting their way on anything because of their principles. Nuh uh.

It has ALWAYS been about compromise. Always. EVERYBODY in Congress has different principles, and they represent a kaleidoscope of different interests. And nobody every simply gets his way on anything, ever, because he thinks he is right.

Congress does not run on principles, and isn't intended to. It runs on pure democracy within its ranks, and that means NUMBERS. If you have the majority in the House, and a supermajority of 60 in the Senate, you get your way, period. If you don't, you lose. The ideas with the majority get made into law, and the others lose, and suck eggs.

The country, writ large, currently supports the Ukraine war by a large margin: 77% of Democrats, 60% of Independents, and 49% of Republicans. That is a supermajority. Republicans are about 30% of the country, so the 51% of the Republicans who oppose the war are 51% of 30%, which is about 15%.

That 15% of the country only gets to set any policy in coalition with the rest. And it is not BLACKMAIL that a few Congressmen don't get their way. It is called being a minority, and minorities in Congress LOSE.

Large majorities want to aid Israel right now (that might change as the Palestinian body count rises), and large majorities of the country want to support Ukraine. The trouble is that in Congress, the Republicans only have a bare majority in the House, so they need the votes of those 8 hard- core people, which gives those hard core people a whole lot more leverage than they would have if the public got the vote in Congress.

But not enough leverage to get their way on Ukraine. The rest of Congress will link it, and they will lose, and there is nothing wrong with that at all, it is not "Blackmail". It is not bad. It's called DEMOCRACY. They have failed to persuade the country to follow them, they are in the minority, they want to help Israel, so the deal is that they have to help Ukraine too - whether they like it or not. They can be "principled" and refuse to help Israel either, BECAUSE they don't get their narrow minoritarian way on Ukraine, but then the huge majority of the REST of Congress, Democrats and Republicans alike, will come together united and pass a comprehensive aid package for both nations, and make it big enough that these hard-core handful of Republicans who don't want to help Ukraine never get to vote on it again this Congress.

That is not blackmail. It is the normal politics of Congress. Not getting their way is not some failing of the system, it is the way the system is SUPPOSED to operate. Their position is held by the minority of Americans, about 37%. The majority, the 63% who support Israel and the Ukraine, should get their way.

And I expect they will.

I don't feel SORRY for the minority politicians here. They are not victims. Nobody is doing anything wrong. In the battle of opinions in Congress, they are in the super-minority, so they lose, just like every other minority loses on every other vote. There is nothing privileged about the fact that they are very sincere in their beliefs. Who cares? I am very sincere in my belief that we must support the Ukraine and Israel. I don't get a vote in it. But the Congressmen who represent me do, and they are more numerous, so I win.

People can vote their conscience, but there is nothing in the Constitution that requires single-issue legislation. And single-issue legislation empowers cranky little minorities to get their way when Congress is closely divided. The supermajority of Congress wants this, and they are not going to let a few opponents stop them - and they don't have to.

There is no American Constitutional principle of single-issue legislation. The focus on it is the rallying cry of people who can't get their way using the system as it exists, who want it to be another way because they aren't going to win otherwise. Tough shit. That's they way Congress works. The hard-liners lose on this (as they should). They can tell us we're wrong. But to try to leverage up that we're MORALLY wrong because we used standard parliamentary procedures to defeat them. Sorry, that's bullshit. Congress doesn't work that way, and the Constitution doesn't say it has to.

It isn't blackmail, and if they are whining that it is, they are liars and then ones who are morally wrong. They are on the losing side, which means they lose, until they have enough numbers. They won't, because Israel and Ukraine are going to rectify the situation in their neighborhoods before the next election.

The Isolationists kept us out of World War II longer than was good for us. They did so because they had the votes. After Pearl Harbor, they didn't. Simple as that.

Vicomte13  posted on  2023-10-12   12:54:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  

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