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Title: COVID Fraud – Lawyers & Medical Experts start legal proceedings against W.H.O and World Leaders for ‘Crimes against Humanity’
Source: [None]
URL Source: https://clickwooz.wordpress.com/202 ... s-for-crimes-against-humanity/
Published: May 9, 2021
Author: Klark Jouss
Post Date: 2021-05-09 12:59:38 by A K A Stone
Keywords: None
Views: 1220
Comments: 72

A team of over 1,000 lawyers and over 10,000 medical experts led by Dr. Reiner Fuellmich have begun legal proceedings against the CDC, WHO & the Davos Group for crimes against humanity.

Fuellmich and his team present the faulty PCR test and the order for doctors to label any comorbidity death as a Covid death as fraud. The PCR test was never designed to detect pathogens and is 100% faulty at 35 cycles. All the PCR tests overseen by the CDC are set at 37 to 45 cycles. The CDC admits that any tests over 28 cycles are not admissible for a positive reliable result. This alone invalidates over 90% of the alleged covid cases / ”infections” tracked by the use of this faulty test.

In addition to the flawed tests and fraudulent death certificates, the “experimental” vaccine itself is in violation of Article 32 of the Geneva Convention. Under Article 32 of the 1949 Geneva Convention IV, “mutilation and medical or scientific experiments not necessitated by the medical treatment of a protected person” are prohibited. According to Article 147, conducting biological experiments on protected persons is a grave breach of the Convention.

The “experimental” vaccine is in violation of all 10 of the Nuremberg Codes which carry the death penalty for those who seek to violate these International Laws.

The “vaccine” fails to meet the following five requirements to be considered a vaccine and is by definition a medical “experiment” and trial:

Provides immunity to the virus This is a “leaky” gene therapy that does not provide immunity to Covid and claims to reduce symptoms yet double-vaccinated are now 60% of the patients requiring ER or ICU with covid infections.

Protects recipients from getting the virus This gene-therapy does not provide immunity and double-vaccinated can still catch and spread the virus.

Reduces deaths from the virus infection This gene-therapy does not reduce deaths from the infection. Double- Vaccinated infected with Covid have also died.

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#1. To: A K A Stone (#0)

Go for it. It's about time. WHO is corrupted. I don't know about CDC though.

tankumo  posted on  2021-05-09   13:54:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: A K A Stone (#0)

This brought a smile to my face.

I was a bit despondent hearing that my whole family took the jab. I told them to buy Ivermectin because they can still catch the virus. (I was nice about it, not snarky.) They hate that I refuse the shot.

WWG1WWA  posted on  2021-05-10   7:38:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: WWG1WWA (#2)

You can still get and spread the virus after vaccination.

tankumo  posted on  2021-05-10   20:02:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: A K A Stone (#0)

Thank you for posting this article.

I will further add to it this law that also applies regarding restrictions and testing of biological agents on people. See here:

www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/1520a

goldilucky  posted on  2021-05-14   19:52:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: All (#4)

Also, the physicians administering these vaccines may be in violation of their own hippocratic oath which goes something like this:

www.medicinenet.com/hippocratic_oath/definition.htm

goldilucky  posted on  2021-05-14   20:34:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: A K A Stone, Tankumo, WWG1WWA, goldilucky, and Everyone (#0)

Dr. Reiner Fuellmich …

Reiner Fuellmich is not a physician. Reiner Fuellmich is simply yet another of the many consumer protection trial lawyers – he is admitted to the Bar in Germany and in California.

Published: May 9, 2021.

The post date of May 9, 2021 for this information makes it appear that this is something new – when in fact it definitely is not,

Dr. Reiner Fuellmich [has] begun legal proceedings …

The legal proceeding actually began back way back on October 12, 2020.

No surprisingly, Reiner Fuellmich’s lawsuit has not reached any court so far.

… crimes against humanity.

Such inflammatory and sensationalistic bullshit predisposes the subject in an unreasonable and prejudiced way when the post claiming that the coronavirus pandemic was uncovered as a fraud is merely conspiratorial.

It contains no evidence, because in fact, it reflects an opinion of Reiner Fuellmich, who questions the existence of COVID-19 pandemic and PCR tests as the means to diagnose COVID-19.

COVID Fraud –

Canada’s top court is not hearing case about Covid-19 ‘crimes.’

Social media posts claim that the Supreme Court of Canada agreed to hear a case accusing Prime Minister Justin Trudeau, Ontario Premier Doug Ford and other civic officials of “crimes against humanity” for implementing public health measures against Covid-19. This is false; the document used as proof was filed in a provincial court where it was dismissed pending appeal, and the country’s top court confirmed that no such case exists on its docket.

“Canadian Supreme Court has accepted the case for Crimes Against Humanity presented by Dr. Reiner Fuellmich, R.F. Kennedy jnr, & Dalores Cahill,” reads the title of a May 5, 2021 article published on a website called Philosophers Stone. It was shared more than 1,500 times on Facebook, according to the social media monitoring tool CrowdTangle.

The article has since been updated to say, “this is not a real case before the courts,” but the original claim continues to circulate on Twitter, Instagram and via a BitChute video.

The article continues here

Once again, Stone – you are presenting false information deliberately as you continue to do when you covertly spread disinformation in order to influence opinions or obscure the truth with your malicious attempt to guide people to your way of thinking.

This is what your forum has turned into …

Gatlin  posted on  2021-05-15   20:59:08 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Gatlin (#6)

deliberately...covertly...malicious

Are you snorting flakka?

A warning from RN.com: "People who use it have gone on mad, violent, zombie-like rampages..."

watchman  posted on  2021-05-15   21:23:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: A K A Stone, Tankumo, WWG1WWA, goldilucky, and Everyone (#0)

We Call Out Reiner Fuellmich as a Fraud. The Covid Conspirator Investigated.

Why would an attorney decide to take on the WHO organization over Covid?

Reiner Fuellmich is engaged in playing a very dangerous game of cat and mouse with what is essentially most of the world. He believes or alledges to believe, that Covid and the coronavirus have been blown out of all proportion, that the WHO is complicit in not warning everyone, then causing global panic, and that everyone else, possibly even your mum, is complicit in a global conspiracy involving Covid.

His latest trending conspiracy tirade is apparently drawn from a very obtuse and mysterious organization he has dubbed the German Corona Investigative Committee. comprising himself and other unnamed members. The document he has produced is an epic 12 pager, a War and Peace sized missive, the nature, and composition of which, would almost certainly have turned Tolkien green with envy. You can view the document here.

At its root, the document is this, nothing more, nothing less. A cleverly constructed fabrication of wishful thinking, clever turns of phrase, and willful manipulation and misinterpretation of the facts to arrive at a conclusion that is so far removed from reality as to give concern for the author’s sanity.

Fact-Checking Fuellmich’s Fairy Tale

We deal on a regular basis with the fringe of healthcare, the kooks and quacks selling their own brand of self-appointed health poisons and potions. There is a certain predictability about the channels these individuals use to amplify their brand of crazy and Fuellmich is no different. It’s the first flag we look for and it usually signals an idea or opinion that is so far removed from reality that no one else dares touch it.

Conspiracy websites and the alt-health sector adopt these individuals as their own, which is helpful, as they singlehandedly do more to discredit them than any other source. Play with the nutters and you give up your seta at the sane table for good.

Let’s look at a few of the statements Fuellmich makes and then later we’ll take a closer look at the man. We’ve cherry-picked bits, so don’t worry, your eyes aren’t going to bleed from sustained exposure to bullshit. Rather than picking apart his entire tale, we’d like to show you how he has crafted his fiction and the tools he relies on to appear convincing and authoritative.

His small statements are made without a shred of supporting evidence, but they are made in a matter-of-fact way that suggests to the reader they ought to know these “facts”. Here is an example and we’ve highlighted parts of the text for emphasis.

Now let’s take a look at the current actual situation regarding the virus’s danger, the complete uselessness of PCR tests for the detection of infections, and the lockdowns based on non-existent infections.

His use of the word “actual” indicates your perception of reality has been flawed and he is about to set you straight. PCR testing is trashed without a shred of supporting evidence and next, he suggests there aren’t any infections. Hey folks, people haven’t been dying, not from Covid anyway.

These statements on their own don’t look dramatic and we are therefore inclined not to seek validation for them, but they begin to paint a picture in the reader’s mind and thus lend credibility to the rest of the narrative. The author uses this tactic remorselessly throughout, building on it as he progresses. Small lies and falsehoods, interspersed with facts to lend credence.

The whole article is a crock of horseshit as anyone intimately involved with the pandemic for the last 12 months can attest to. Ask someone who has been seriously ill with Covid if they think it’s regular flu.

We have a skilled and unscrupulous lawyer in Fuellmich who is painting a picture to the jury (us) of something he wants to sell us. We’ll examine possible motives for his sales pitch at the end of the article.

A word of clarification: in Bergamo, the vast majority of deaths, 94% to be exact, turned out to be the result not of Covid-19, but rather the consequence of the government deciding to transfer sick patients, sick with probably the cold or seasonal flu, from hospitals to nursing homes in order to make room at the hospitals for all the Covid patients, who ultimately never arrived.

An amazingly exact figure (94%) and very confusing considering the ample evidence that now exists to support the fact that most Italian areas, and Bergamo was no exception, were underreporting Covid deaths. Don’t take my word for it, here is conclusive proof. Also, given the 228% (you’re not the only one that can do it mate) increase in deaths compared to 2019, I think Italians could safely assume they weren’t dealing with influenza.

Fuellmich may want to avoid booking a holiday on Lake Como. Accusing the Italians of murdering their own people may not be the best way to ensure a harmonious EU brotherhood. In his defense though, he has set about trying to piss off everyone equally. Literally, no one is spared in his 12-page tantrum. This next exert is my favorite.

However, as autopsies have shown, which were carried out in Germany in particular, by the forensic scientist Professor Klaus Püschel in Hamburg, the fatalities he examined had almost all been caused by serious pre-existing conditions, and almost all of the people who had died had died at the very at a very old age, just like in Italy, meaning they had lived beyond their average life expectancy.

So exactly how many bodies did the good Professor Püschel hack up for his research? You see if we choose to believe Fuellmich then there wouldn’t, according to his view of events, have been that many bodies. Hardly enough to form a solid opinion from anyway, so Fuellmich has, without realizing it, just locked his tale in with Schroedinger’s cat. Fuellmich’s Paranoia Puzzle.

Let’s revert back to the real world and the totally ridiculous conclusion he draws. Influenza doesn’t kill people, it’s the infections that get you, Even someone as lacking in medical knowledge as Fuellmich appears to be, would know this. Covid is no different. Show me a person who has died of Covid and I’ll show you Elvis’s latest concert itinerary.

Lungs collapse or simply gum up, fatal blood clots form, hearts stop and the list goes on. That’s what kills you. Covid was simply driving the car. The older you are the more likely you are to suffer from some or other dodgy organ, stuff stops working and wears out. I’d also be interested to know why Professor Püschel didn’t investigate younger fatalities? Did he. and Fuellmich just conveniently avoids mentioning them, or did the Professor have an agenda, much like Fuellmich?

The last extract is simply to show you the depths to which this waste of flesh is willing to stoop in order to further his cause.

there are numerous credible reports that doctors and hospitals worldwide had been paid money for declaring a deceased person a victim of Covid-19 rather than writing down the true cause of death on the death certificate, for example a heart attack or a gunshot wound

See those highlighted words? He’s at it again. Where are these “numerous credible” reports you’re referring to Mr. Fuellmich. Please produce them. Otherwise, it is my sincere hope that while on holiday at Lake Como. you take ill, and that your attending Italian surgeon is intimately familiar with your article. Best of luck.

Not satisfied with merely insulting the memories of those who have lost their lives to Covid, Fuellmich reaches out to the doctors and healthcare providers as well, accusing them of falsifying death reports. The man is truly a piece of work.

What motivates Fuellmich?

That’s a difficult question to answer. His rise to infamy really began in 2020, and one crazy covid related headline after the next has kept him in the alternate media eye since then. This latest effort will almost undoubtedly not be his last. It may simply be that he craves the spotlight and notoriety and enjoys the media attention.

Weird we know, but sometimes the simplest explanations are the ones we miss and nothing in the alternate universe that Fuellmich occupies smacks of normalcy. Perhaps in recognition of the danger he poses, most mainstream media have avoided amplifying his rubbish and generally shun him. As stated earlier, he survives off the charity of conspiracy websites and alternate health platforms, without whom he would just be another conspiracy nutcase pissing into the wind.

What is at once apparent is that the Department of Justice and FDA will have renewed interest in Herr Fuellmich and if they don’t, we can assure you we intend to make them painfully aware of him. His efforts to spread misinformation on the virus and create a climate of distrust in the public mind compromises public health and the healthcare industry.

https://medika.life/we-call-out-reiner- fuellmich-as-a-fraud-the-covid-conspirator-investigated/

Gatlin  posted on  2021-05-15   21:25:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: A K A Stone, Tankumo, WWG1WWA, goldilucky, and Everyone (#0)

Read the Transcript of Dr. Reiner Fuellmich’s “Crimes Against Humanity” here.

Gatlin  posted on  2021-05-15   21:32:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Gatlin (#8)

Lungs collapse or simply gum up, fatal blood clots form, hearts stop and the list goes on. That’s what kills you.

That would be the mRNA vaccine killing you, not imaginary covid.

A word of clarification: in Bergamo, the vast majority of deaths, 94% to be exact, turned out to be the result not of Covid-19, but rather the consequence of the...

...doctors and nurses practicing their tiktok dance moves.

watchman  posted on  2021-05-15   23:40:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: watchman, A K A Stone, Tankumo, WWG1WWA, goldilucky, and Everyone (#10) (Edited)

Lungs collapse or simply gum up, fatal blood clots form, hearts stop and the list goes on. That’s what kills you.

That would be the mRNA vaccine killing you, not imaginary covid.

You are taking a quote out of context – sometimes referred to as contextomy or quote mining.

This is an informal fallacy in which you have removed a passage from its surrounding matter in such a way as to distort its intended meaning.

In other words: YOU ARE LYING AGAIN – “Christian.”

Your shameless lying continued with:

...doctors and nurses practicing their tiktok dance moves.

An important word of clarification: This in NOT a video of “doctors and nurses practicing their tiktok dance moves.

This is a video of dancing nurses that went viral in celebration of recovered COVID-19 patients.

A lot has changed since the COVID-19 pandemic began, but the spirit and perseverance of nurses are still the same. In fact, many viral social media posts show that it is stronger than ever!

The strength of nurses in the face of adversity is on clear display in videos where nurses are shown celebrating the big wins and handling stress in their fight against COVID-19.

“Today was a win for the good guys against COVID-19! Five people came off ventilators in our unit today during the day shift! One was the second person intubated on our unit when this all began. Beautiful day. Days like this are what makes it worth risking my life for yours.” - Charlotte Hedlund, ICU nurse from Los Angeles exclaimed on Instagram.

Nurses are going viral as they spread positivity through song and dance in their daily fight against the virus.

They have been dancing when a patient finally comes off a ventilator, breaking into song when COVID-19 patients are discharged, or TikToking in scrubs to boost positivity on the hospital floors. As a result, they are inspiring viewers all around the world.

Click here for a few examples of hard-working nurses fighting COVID-19 with a great attitude and a contagious sense of humor. (Spoiler: they may also make you happy cry) #SupportHealthCareHeroes

You really need to stop with your lies – “Christian.”

Gatlin  posted on  2021-05-16   3:52:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: watchman, and Everyone (#7)

Are you snorting flakka?

No.

A warning ..."

The scientific method isn't perfect, but it's better than the alternative when lives are at stake.

‘Common Sense’ Is No Substitute for Science in a Pandemic

Gatlin  posted on  2021-05-16   4:21:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: watchman, and Everyone (#12)

Quote from the lyrics in the song:

I believe for everyone who goes astray someone will come to show the way.

You have definitely gone ASTRAY and I am here to show YOU the WAY …

Gatlin  posted on  2021-05-16   4:35:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: goldilucky, A K A Stone, Tankumo, WWG1WWA, watchman, and Everyone (#4) (Edited)

Thank you for posting this article.

I will further add to it this law that also applies regarding restrictions and testing of biological agents on people. See here:

www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/50/1520a

I did “see here” and I read that:

Subject to subsections (c), (d), and (e), the prohibition in subsection (a) does not apply to a test or experiment carried out for any of the following purposes:

(1)Any peaceful purpose that is related to a medical, therapeutic, pharmaceutical, agricultural, industrial, or research activity.

(2)Any purpose that is directly related to protection against toxic chemicals or biological weapons and agents.

(3)Any law enforcement purpose, including any purpose related to riot control.

Thank you for posting this most informative link …

Gatlin  posted on  2021-05-16   5:08:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: WWG1WWA, A K A Stone, Tankumo, watchman, goldilucky, and Everyone (#2) (Edited)

This brought a smile to my face.

Why?

What pleases you abut wasting huge monetary and time expense on a baseless lawsuit?

Litigation is a huge monetary and time expense. The drain on nerves isn't pretty either. In fact, some of the time wasted is bad not necessarily because of the time but how it's spent. If it's spent worrying about tasks that don't deserve it, abandon those tasks. Save time. Save money. Avoid the drain on nerves.

7 Ways To Waste Time And Money In Litigation

No surprisingly, Reiner Fuellmich’s lawsuit has not reached any court so far.

Ho hum …

Gatlin  posted on  2021-05-16   5:46:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Gatlin (#11)

watchman  posted on  2021-05-16   7:27:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: watchman, and Everyone (#16) (Edited)

BC man shares blood clot story on social media

Ah Ha.

One bit of anecdotal evidence.

You are presenting a simple claim on social media relying only on personal observation, collected in a casual or non-systematic manner which is generally regarded as limited in value.

Anecdotal evidence has a number of potential weaknesses when compared to other types of evidence.

Anecdotal evidence is troublesome in larger chance that it may be unreliable due to cherry-picked or otherwise non-representative samples of typical cases.

Psychologists have found that due to their cognitive bias, some people will likely seek out unusual examples rather than typical examples. Even when accurate, anecdotal evidence is not necessarily representative of a typical experience.

Misuse of anecdotal evidence is an informal fallacy and is sometimes referred to as the "person who" fallacy ("I know a person who..."; "I know of a case where..." etc.) which places undue weight on experiences which may not be typical.

You can view a table here that shows how statistical and scientific methodology are opposites of anecdotal evidence.

Carefully consider this: On average, 274 people die every day from blood clots while there are ONLY 28 blood clot cases reported from the COVID-19 vaccine – With 3 deaths may be linked to J&J . More than 146 million people have now received at least one dose of vaccine, and more than 103 million people have been fully vaccinated.

And you show such great concern about a single anecdotal evidence – because that is ALL you have.

Such FALSE concern – Pffft.

Get fucking real …

Gatlin  posted on  2021-05-16   10:55:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: watchman, and everyone (#16)

BC man shares blood clot story on social media

After researching this: I find:

There is no evidence that this incident was caused by the vaccine.

Can you show any such firm evidence?

Gatlin  posted on  2021-05-16   11:54:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Gatlin (#17)

More than 146 million people have now received at least one dose of vaccine, and more than 103 million people have been fully vaccinated.

Real poison for a fake pandemic.

These vaccines are made by the "pharmaceutical" industry.

The Greek word pharmakeia means "medication ("pharmacy"), i.e. (by extension) magic (literally or figuratively):--sorcery, witchcraft".

You're here to advance a globaalist agenda: sickness, depopulation, destruction. You work unknowingly (or knowingly?) for Apollyon.

In the end, you will lose.

watchman  posted on  2021-05-16   21:54:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: watchman, and Everyone (#19) (Edited)

More than 146 million people have now received at least one dose of vaccine, and more than 103 million people have been fully vaccinated.

Yes.

Verified truth as opposed to interpretation.

Real poison for a fake pandemic.

You call the vaccine a poison.

MPoison is a substance that is capable of causing the death of a living organism when introduced or absorbed. Yet you cannot provide proof in one single incident where a person has died from the vaccination.

You call the pandemic a fake pandemic.

A pandemic is defined as the prevalent of a disease over a whole country or the world. You continue to call COVID-19 a fake pandemic while Authorities in 219 countries and territories have reported here about 162.8 million Covid‑19 cases and 3.4 million deaths since China reported its first cases to the World Health Organization (WHO) in December 2019. Amazingly, your illusion of truth effect is wrongly perceived or interpreted and it will not let facts change your mind. Why is that?

Your illusory truth effect – also known as the illusion of truth effect, validity effect, truth effect, or the reiteration effect – tendency to continually believe false information to be correct after repeated exposure defies scientific methodology. The scientific method is a rational, logical thought process that is used to figure out facts and truths. All of the answers must be able to be proved. You have failed to prove anything you have said.

These vaccines are made by the "pharmaceutical" industry …

… and approved or licensed by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA).

You left that that out, so I added it for you.

The Greek word pharmakeia means "medication ("pharmacy"), i.e. (by extension) magic (literally or figuratively):--sorcery, witchcraft".

You are correct. The Greek word pharmakeia is used in Galatians 5:19.

The word is a fairly general one. My Greek dictionary defines it as: “witchcraft, magic, the use of spells and potions of magic, often involving drugs–a magic spell. It is a fact that witchcraft and magic in the Greek world often involved the use of drugs–either by the witch or the one on whom the magic is worked. I have heard the same thing taught that you quote. It is not absolutely false, but it is not good use of the Greek. Probably, whoever gave you this bogus definition also told you that we get the word pharmacy from this Greek root word. That, of course, is true, but this does not mean that the meaning of the word has not changed! Put it this way, if one were to use and administer drugs for the sole purpose of creating a mind-altered state, then one could probably be judged to have violated the commandment not to be involved in pharmakiea. Probably whoever told you this got the definition second hand and did not bother to look up the Greek. I see this as an attempt to make the stricture in Galatians 5:19 practical for a modern, particularly an American crowd. This is a good thing to do, but in making the scripture practical, we should always begin with good exegesis. If you lived in parts of Africa, the definition given above would apply in all its meanings. I have visited churches in third world countries where the sin of magic spells and relying on witch doctors is very much prevelant; even among Christians. [Source].

My question to you is why are you relying on a mid 17th century origin via late Latin from Greek for anything when modern day definitions show that:

Pharmaceuticals are drug-containing products in dosage forms. A pharmaceutical is a chemical substance which is used in healthcare.

There is nothing in the English definition that pertains to – as you say:

(by extension) magic (literally or figuratively):--sorcery, witchcraft"

You say to me:

You're here to advance a globaalist agenda: sickness, depopulation, destruction. You work unknowingly (or knowingly?) for Apollyon.

I say to you that is incorrect.

I am here to help you gain factual knowledge so that you can understand why information is important and useful. With the hope that your curiosity will finally be piqued, and appropriately challenge you to perceive relevance of the content in order that you will be willing to exert more effort and will perform better as a result. From an important perspective, these dimensions are among the most strongly correlated with effective learning.

In the end, you will lose.

Nah.

Truth always wins agains lies and here is why:

Lies can grow and grow and appear to be truth in a twisted sort of way, but a lie can never be the truth. And it doesn’t matter who believes the lies because you know the truth of what you lived and that truth will always be reality no matter how many lies try to distort it or how many choose to believe it.

I will never stop speaking the truth and I will always keep clinging to the real Truth – because in the end, truth always continues to stand the test of time. A person that lies is always eventually revealed.

I shall continue to reveal you and everyone who thinks like you …

Gatlin  posted on  2021-05-17   2:29:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Gatlin (#20)

Not that I read all the tripe you post, but could you do me a favor and tone down the blue highlighter?

That way, just in case you post something worth reading, my eyes will be spared the semi-permanent blue imprint left on my photoreceptors.

Thanks in advance 8-/

watchman  posted on  2021-05-17   17:42:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: watchman (#21)

Test xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Is this better for you?

Gatlin  posted on  2021-05-17   17:49:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Gatlin (#22)

Lookin' good.

watchman  posted on  2021-05-17   17:56:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Gatlin (#20)

I will never stop speaking the truth and I will always keep clinging to the real Truth

How can you cling to the truth or even know the truth until you know Christ?

Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life..."

If Jesus is THE truth, and you don't know Him (and you don't), how can you be so sure that you have the "real" truth in other areas of knowledge and understanding?

watchman  posted on  2021-05-17   18:20:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: watchman, and Everyone (#24)

How can you cling to the truth or even know the truth until you know Christ?

How do I know truth?

Presenting this question to me as a deep philosophical puzzle is suitable for you to ask someone so “brainy” to tackle. The answer is simple. Truth is what corresponds to reality. Consequently, what is real is true, what is unreal is false.

You constantly reference the Bible in that it makes some very distinctive truth claims. These claims the Bible makes either correspond to reality or they do not. You believe that they do correspond to reality.

Explain how you really know this.

That’s an excellent question since so much is at stake in the Christian faith in terms of the truthfulness of Scripture. The Bible is primary source for Christians on information about Jesus and about all of those things Christians embrace as elements of their faith.

Explain why you are persuaded that the Bible is the truth?

I will then ask a broader question and that is: How do you know that anything is true?

I am asking you a a technical question in epistemology. How do you test claims of truth? Is there a certain kind of truth that you test through observation, experimentation, eyewitness, examination, and scientific evidence – or, what do you use?

On second thought, do you test the claims of truth through the test of rationality? Is it logically consistent, or does it smack with inconsistency?

If you use the Bible, how do you determine the content of Scripture to see if is coherent?

One of the most astonishing things, of course, is that the Bible has literally thousands of testable historical prophecies, cases and stories where almost countless events were foretold. Do you merely search among those literally thousands of stories until you find one that supports your belief and then declare: Ah Ha – Here is Truth.

I hold no doubt that you do this – Cherry pick the verses that you like in order to support an idea or point that you are trying to make, while ignoring other verses that you don’t like, or don’t agree with.

Gatlin  posted on  2021-05-17   21:33:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Gatlin (#25)

Explain why you are persuaded that the Bible is the truth?

I will then ask a broader question and that is: How do you know that anything is true?

Well, I'll try to be brief...

First, there has to be some absolute truth in the universe somewhere. So we begin there.

1. Christ says He is the truth.

2. Then Christ says that the Word of God is truth.

3. Finally, He says His Spirit (Whom He calls the Spirit of Truth) will lead His people into All truth. ALL truth!

However when He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth...John16:13

This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words...1cor2:13

Which naturally leads me to your second excellent question:

On second thought, do you test the claims of truth...

This really touches on the failure of the Church today. You can easily see this failure, and it derives from this very question you asked.

Test all things; hold fast what is good...1thes5:21

Test ALL things! All things! Prove everything.

The Church is very good at testing Scripture. And we Christians do test scripture. Just go to any good Bible school and teenagers will be there hammering away at any questionable text, any weakness (because that's what teens do best). And the prof had better be on his game or he'll be eaten alive.

However. However! The Church fails miserably at testing and proving everything else...day-to-day stuff. Stuff in the news. Stuff politicians say. Events that happen...on and on. This has been the sad case of the Church for the past 125 years minimum. Especially as soon as we got "rich", toward the end of the 19th century. This failure is why we have no salt and light to offer the world today, and are being "trampled underfoot by men".

To sum it up: we have an example of truth (Christ), Who guides us by His Word and His Spirit to (eventually) all truth. It's really part of a relationship we have with God, as we are told to know and love the truth.

I could go on, get long winded, but will spare you that for now.

watchman  posted on  2021-05-18   7:22:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: watchman, and Everybody (#26)

Well, I'll try to be brief...

I don’t care if your are brief or not – I want you to be factually correct.

Christ says He is the truth.

Let’s STOP right here before we go any further.

I need you to tell me how you know “Christ says that?”

Then we shall proceed …

Gatlin  posted on  2021-05-18   8:03:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: watchman, and Everyone (#26)

I will continue …

However when He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth...John16:13

How did John know this to be Truthful?

And why is the Gospel of John the Bible’s most “enigmatic gospel?”

Gatlin  posted on  2021-05-18   9:19:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Gatlin (#27)

I need you to tell me how you know “Christ says that?”

His claim of being 'the truth' is recorded in the Bible.

So, in a broader sense you are inquiring "did Christ really say that"? and "can the Bible be trusted to be accurate and trustworthy, especially in regard to Who Christ claims to be"?

This is where systematic theology comes in handy. Systematic theology systematically lays out the proof needed to make an airtight case that would verify that Christ is Who He says He is, and that His Words were accurately recorded, for example, by multiple witnesses.

Even before His arrival, prophets (under the penalty of death) began to foretell of Immanuel (God with us). The prophets got very specific.

Then, while He was here, multitudes both friend and foe acknowledged what He said and did, including historians like Josephus.

And after He left, His Spirit fell upon humans to confirm the truth of His Words.

One translation says it this way:

And so we have the prophetic word made more sure, to which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star arises in your hearts.

Now, on a personal level most people start to believe what Jesus said on a more visceral level. They are usually the ones weighted down by the cares of this life, wondering what this life is all about. Why am I here? Why am I dying? Why?

Systematic theology is not going to work for these folks. They are looking for something, some truth to believe in. All this to say, that they find ONE thing in the Bible they can accept as truth, that being: they are sinful. This is the one truth that every single person can acknowledge. And it's in the Bible. So they begin to have that connection with the Bible. They can trust the Bible on that, if nothing else. And then they begin to look at the other truths to see if they can agree on those as well.

So you can take your pick. You can trust that Jesus says He is the truth based on sound theology confirmed over thousands of years, or, you can find that one truth in Scripture that you cannot deny, and start from there.

This is how I know that Christ's claim of being the truth is in fact credible and trustworthy.

watchman  posted on  2021-05-18   9:32:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: watchman, and Everyone (#29)

I need you to tell me how you know “Christ says that?”

His claim of being 'the truth' is recorded in the Bible.

You say “his claim.”

A claim is defined as:

State or assert that something is the case, typically without providing evidence or proof.

Pay attention to the part that states:

… typically without providing evidence or proof.

Where is the “proof” – Where is the “Truth?”

Show me …

Gatlin  posted on  2021-05-18   9:42:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: watchman and Everyone (#29)

So, in a broader sense you are inquiring "did Christ really say that"? and "can the Bible be trusted to be accurate and trustworthy, especially in regard to Who Christ claims to be"?

Indeed I am …

This is where systematic theology comes in handy …

, “systematic theology …

… is any study that answers the question, ‘What does the whole Bible teach us today?’ about any given topic.”

So, who gets to decide if the study under systematic theology is the Truth?

And how can he/she/they be believed?

Gatlin  posted on  2021-05-18   9:53:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: watchman and Everybody (#29)

One translation says it this way …

And of course there are translation mistakes in the Bible.

In the original Hebrew, the 10th Commandment prohibits taking, not coveting. The biblical Jubilee year is named for an animal’s horn and has nothing to do with jubilation. The pregnant woman in Isaiah 7:14 is never called a virgin. Psalm 23 opens with an image of God’s might and power, not shepherding. And the romantic Song of Solomon offers a surprisingly modern message.

But most people who read the Bible don’t know these things.

They definitely should because extensive translation gaffs conceal the Bible’s original meaning.

Gatlin  posted on  2021-05-18   10:23:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: watchman, and Everyone (#29)

So you can take your pick. You can trust that Jesus says He is the truth

You are not trusting “what Jesus said” – You are putting all your trust and faith in what “some said that Jesus said.”

The Bible spans centuries of history, contains a variety of literary styles and varied languages with translations of words that have different meanings in those different languages. So the Bible is really just what some people say.

Tge Bible is not a book that arrived in complete form at one point in history. Instead – the Bible was written over a period of some 1,500 years by a great number of authors. Although it is viewed as one book, it’s actually a collection of many books.

How do you know what so many different people said is the absolute Truth? After all, Isn't the Bible just a collection of stories and myths? Even if it contains some history, how can you trust it so completely? Despite feverish searching with Scripture in one hand and cutting-edge technology in the other, evidence backing the Bible remains elusive.

Beauty and biblical evidence both lie in the eye of the beholder, it seems. No evidence of the events described in the Book of Genesis has ever been found. No city walls have been found at Jericho, from the appropriate era, that could have been toppled by Joshua or otherwise. The stone palace uncovered at the foot of Temple Mount in Jerusalem could attest that King David had been there; or it might belong to another era entirely, depending who you ask.

But someone said it happened, and you believe it happened. You believe it happened ONLY because you want to believe it. Where is the Truth that it did happen? Show me …

Gatlin  posted on  2021-05-18   10:37:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: watchman, and Everyone (#29)

This is how I know that Christ's claim of being the truth is in fact credible and trustworthy.

No, you don’t know that. To know means to …

… be aware of through observation, inquiry, or information.

You have no personal observations on anything that happened in the Bible. You have made no inquiry to that great number of authors who wrote a book over a period of some 1500 years. And the only information have is hearsay – what someone said?

So, you don’t KNOW a damned thing. You only BELIVE what someone wrote – and you only believe it because you want to.

And that is okay – you have the right to hold that belief.

But don’t spread the bullshit that it is all veritable Truth.

For it isn’t …

Gatlin  posted on  2021-05-18   11:30:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Gatlin (#34)

… be aware of through observation, inquiry, or information.

You just described theology...systematic theology.

You have no personal observations on anything that happened in the Bible.

Yes, I do. The Bible is "living and active". The Bible is alive through God's Spirit. The Bible interacts with a Christian in a personal and observable way.

You only BELIVE what someone wrote – and you only believe it because you want to.

The very same thing can be said about your belief in covid.

watchman  posted on  2021-05-18   12:23:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: watchman, and Everyone (#35)

… be aware of through observation, inquiry, or information.

You just described theology...systematic theology.

No, I just gave you a definition of knowledge and you are maliciously spinning that definition to incorrectly associate it with systematic theology.

According to some theologians in evangelical circles, systematic theology is used to refer to the topical collection and exploration of the content of the Bible, in which a different perspective is provided on the Bible's message than that garnered simply by reading the biblical narratives, poems, proverbs, and letters as a story of redemption or as a manual for how to live a godly life. The danger is a tendency to assign technical definitions to terms based on a few passages and then read that meaning everywhere the term is used in the Bible.

Pay particular close attention to the passage where it is said that in systematic theology – “a different perspective is provided on the Bible's message than that garnered simply by reading the Bible.”

Repeating: “A DIFFERENT PERSPECTIBVE.”

So carefully understand this is saying that with systematic theology, you are being told what to think and you are not allowed to form your own conclusions from simply reading the Bible.

In systematic theology, you are being indoctrinated – brain washed – with a “different perspective of what provided in the Bible's messages.” I am not making this shit up. Read the quote again – it is what “some theologians in evangelical circles” are saying.

Gatlin  posted on  2021-05-18   18:40:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: watchman, and Everyone (#35)

You have no personal observations on anything that happened in the Bible.

Yes, I do. The Bible is "living and active". The Bible is alive through God's Spirit. The Bible interacts with a Christian in a personal and observable way.

Reading the Bible in not having personal observations.

You are reading about the observations by others.

And you form “beliefs” from the observations by others.

Gatlin  posted on  2021-05-18   18:47:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: watchman, and Evertyone (#35)

You only BELIVE what someone wrote – and you only believe it because you want to.

The very same thing can be said about your belief in covid.

There can be no clearer tacit admission by you that:

You only BELIVE what someone wrote – and you only believe it because you want to.

Thank you for your honesty – At least on this one point.

Gatlin  posted on  2021-05-18   18:51:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: watchman, and Everyone (#38) (Edited)

What’s wrong with systematic theology?

Last weekend during a church service the leader talked about a training scheme which the church is running saying something along the lines of we study the Bible in more detail using Wayne Grudem’s Systematic Theology. Now, I might be awkward, but I’m far from convinced that studying a systematic theology is a good way to learn about the Bible. To be honest, I’m not sure it’s a good way to learn anything, apart from the cultural and theological presuppositions of the author.

The problem with systematic theologies, is that they are systematic. God’s revelation to us in the Bible is not systematic. It’s messy, it’s complicated, it tells the story of people who mess up, of God who gets involved in the life of his creation and redeems it. The Bible narrative is compelling; sometimes exciting, sometimes complicated but it is not systematic. God did not give us a system, he gave us a story.

Systematic theologians go through the story, drawing threads together to make into a system – but the story isn’t neat and tidy and some bits don’t fit into their systems. What’s more, the system they choose is determined by their own background. Now, you might take a weighty systematic theology book and read through and think that it contains everything that you might ever want to know about God and the Bible. But as a challenge, look up the section on the theology of ancestors. You probably won’t find one. Yet, the Bible has tons to say about ancestors, think about the chapter upon chapter of begatting in the Old Testament. If that isn’t teaching on ancestors, what is? A systematic theology written by an African or an Asian might well have pages and pages on ancestors – but it doesn’t fit the system here in the West. This becomes a problem when (as often happens) people start to mistake the system for the message of the Bible. Important things (like ancestors) are left out because they don’t fit the system and other things get systematised to death (try reading what Grudem has to say about the Trinity) and lose the relational aspect that breaths life into the Scriptures.

My suspicion is that western minds, conditioned by a philosophical tradition that goes back thousands of years, default naturally to putting things into systems. Linnaeus did a great job systematising the natural world and the periodic table of the elements is a thing of beauty, but I remain unconvinced that what works for natural sciences actually works for the God who created nature. .

Repeating: I’m not sure systematic thrology is a good way to learn anything, apart from the cultural and theological presuppositions of the author.

https://www.kouya.net/?p=714

Gatlin  posted on  2021-05-18   19:03:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: watchman, and Everyone (#35)

You only BELIVE what someone wrote – and you only believe it because you want to.

The very same thing can be said about your belief in covid.

No, that is not true – Definitely not.

I never simply read something about COVID and believe it. I read something and then I go on a research mission to find out as much as I can that is against it and also for it. It is after I have carefully studied everything possible, I then form an opinion.

My learning process is a deliberate action with a purpose to extract information from various sources for processing and storage. I can tell you that learning is the cognitive process of acquiring knowledge. Learning is the continuing process of acquiring new knowledge or modifying existing knowledge.

When I read something, the first thing that pops in my mind is – Why. I then immediately seek all means to understand that.

Gatlin  posted on  2021-05-18   20:01:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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