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Title: 1775 . . . Again?
Source: Eric Peters Autos
URL Source: https://www.ericpetersautos.com/2019/12/23/1775-again/
Published: Dec 23, 2019
Author: Eric
Post Date: 2019-12-24 07:56:34 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 8249
Comments: 55

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When people desperately trying to avoid a fight are left no choice but to fight, they are often the fiercest fighters imaginable.

The reason being an explosion of righteous anger – of berserker fury – directed at the bullies who will not leave them be.

Governor “Coonman” Northam of Virginia is such a bully.

He intends to rescind the current, ancient and long-acknowledged legal right of Virginians  who aren’t criminals to possess more than single shot rifles and pistols – by criminalizing anyone who does possess them.

These newly minted “criminals” will then be required to turn in their formerly legal firearms to the government or be subject to Hut! Hut! Hutting! by armed government workers sent by the Coonman to enforce his criminal acts.

These acts include the criminalization of any “training” – even without firearms – which the Coonman and his supporters consider potentially “anti-government.”

This is a recipe for 1775.

Another bully – Thomas Gage, the British military governor of Massachusetts – attempted a “Coonman” in that year, which lit the fuse of what became the Revolutionary War. He sent armed government workers – Redcoats – to confiscate the weapons of the colonists – who had finally had their fill of being bullied. These long-ago AGWs eventually gunned down several colonists on the village green at Lexington.

Word of the massacre spread and the people rose in response, fighting back with whatever means available, harrying the column of armed government workers as it made its way back toward Boston, some 18 miles away.

The fury incited by that long-ago “Coonman” was subsequently described by himself:

These people show a spirit and conduct against us they never showed against the French . . . They are now spirited up by a rage and enthusiasm as great as ever people were possessed of and you must proceed in earnest or give the business up. A small body acting in one spot will not avail, you must have large armies making diversions on different sides, to divide their force. The loss we have sustained is greater than we can bear. Small armies cannot afford such losses, especially when the advantage gained tends to do little more than the gaining of a post.” 

Eight years later, those furious colonists finally succeeded in getting the bullies off their backs – permanently.

They probably never imagined that homegrown bullies even worse than “Coonman” Gage would eventually arise to torment them.

The current “Coonman” may not realize just how very tired the people are of being bullied – and how willing they are to fight, if a fight is forced upon them.

The “Coonman” feels confident. He has the full weight and force of the government and all its means at his disposal. He has legions of armed government workers available to enforce his writ.

But he hasn’t got the fury – and that is something he ought to reckon with, before it it is too late.

I speak from a rural SW Va county, in which most of the people living here know one another. Know they are not criminals, no matter what laws the Coonman may hurl characterizing them as such.

It is a very different to “red flag” and sic police department Hut! Hut! Hutters! on someone in a suburban home whose neighbors have no idea who he is than it is to order local sheriffs – who know their neighbor – to Hut! Hut! Hut! him on orders from Richmond. There is no “gun violence” problem in my county and everyone knows it. They therefore understand that what Coonman is proposing is not some kind of needed curative but the criminalization of almost an entire populace by distant tyrants who are loathed by almost the entire populace.

People such as Coonman are viewed as illegitimate foreigners; creatures who speak a foreign language, even though it is English. People here have had enough. The differences are irreconcilable. And the resentment is boiling.

Look at a map of the last election. The state remains overwhelmingly red – but the blues control the entire state government. It is because the blues – like a cancerous mole – control the densely populated counties adjacent to the federal capital. The reds no longer have a say in state government – and people who have no say tend to get angry. Right now, they are extremely angry.

It could get out of control very quickly.

It will be hard for the Coonman and his followers to portray 90 percent of the people living in the counties outside of Northern Virginia and Richmond as “criminals” by passing laws transforming them into criminals.

If this thing starts, it will not end until one or the other side is no longer capable of fighting. It will be no-quarter-given. It will be awful.

But it will be righteous.

And it may be the only way.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 22.

#8. To: Deckard (#0)

No, it's not 1775 again. There's no French Navy or Army out there that might come in and save rebel bacon.

I hope it's not 1861 again either. There was no French, or British, Navy or Army coming that time, making the result inevitable.

Armed rebellion against the authority of the US or a state will simply result in something akin to Waco, on a grander scale perhaps. It is not the way.

Vicomte13  posted on  2019-12-27   16:07:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Vicomte13, Deckard (#8)

I hope it's not 1861 again either. There was no French, or British, Navy or Army coming that time, making the result inevitable.

Armed rebellion against the authority of the US or a state will simply result in something akin to Waco, on a grander scale perhaps.

Please forgive my intrusion or digression, but I haven't had occasion to drag out the documents about putting the militia to work in many years. For those unfamiliar with how to get a really big civil disturbance going, here are the historical documents regarding use of the military force against combinations too powerful to be suppressed by the ordinary course of judicial proceedings, or by the powers vested in the Marshals. For example, the combinations may be interfering with the ability to collect the revenue, and that can lead to a great civil disturbance about the collection of the revenue.

The Militia Act of 1795 reads as follows:

An Act to provide for calling forth the Militia to exe­cute the Laws of the Union, suppress insurrection and repel invasions, and to repeal the act now in force for those purposes.

Be it enacted, &c., That whenever the United States shall be invaded, or be in imminent danger of invasion from any foreign nation or Indian tribe, it shall be lawful for the President of the United States to call forth such number of the militia of the State or States most convenient to the place of danger or scene of action, as he may judge necessary to repel such invasion, and to issue his orders for that purpose to such officer or officers of the militia as he shall think proper. And, in case of an insurrection in any State against the Government thereof, it shall be lawful for the President of the United States, on application of the Legislature of such State, or of the Executive, (when the Legislature cannot be convened,) to call forth such number of the militia of any other State or States as may be applied for, as he may judge sufficient to suppress such insurrection.

Sec. 2. And be it further enacted, That when­ever the laws of the United States shall be opposed, or the execution thereof obstructed in any State, by combinations too powerful to be sup­pressed by the ordinary course of judicial proceedings, or by the powers vested in the Marshals by this act, it shall be lawful for the President of the United States to call forth the militia of such State, or of any other State or States, as may be necessary to suppress such combinations, and to cause the laws to be duly executed; and the use of militia so to be called forth, may be continued, if necessary, until the expiration of thirty days after the commencement of the then next session of Congress.

* * *

Section 1 explicitly addresses invasion and insurrection. Section 2 addresses civil disturbances which interfere with the courts and allows the militia to be used to assist the marshals of the courts to enable the courts to function and the laws to be duly executed. Attorney General Black stated that "to execute the laws of the Union" meant "to aid the federal officers in the performance of their regular duties." As there were no Federal officers in the seceded states, there were none to assist.

From Twenty Years of Congress: From Lincoln to Garfield. With a review of the events which led to the political revolution of 1860, by James G. Blaine. Vol. I, pp. 603-605.

Opinion of Judge Black, November 20, 1860

The Tenth chapter of this volume having been given to the press in advance of formal publication, many inquiries have been received in regard to the text of Judge Black's opinion of November 20, 1860, referred to on pp. 231, 232. The opinion was submitted to the President by Judge Black as Attorney-General. So much of the opinion as includes the points which are specially controverted and criticised is here given — about one-half of the entire document. It is as follows:—

. . . "I come now to the point in your letter which is probably of the greatest practical importance. By the Act of 1807 you may employ such parts of the land and naval forces as you may judge necessary for the purpose of causing the laws to be duly executed, in all cases where it is lawful to use the militia for the same purpose. By the Act of 1795 the militia may be called forth 'whenever the laws of the United States shall be opposed, or the execution thereof obstructed, in any State by combinations too powerful to be suppressed by the ordinary course of Judicial proceedings, or by the power vested in the marshals.' This imposes upon the President the sole responsibility of deciding whether the exigency has arisen which requires the use of military force, and in proportion to the magnitude of that responsibility will be his care not to overstep the limits of his legal and just authority.

"The laws referred to in the Act of 1795 are manifestly those which are administered by the judges, and executed by the ministerial officers of the courts for the punishment of crime against the United States, for the protection of rights claimed under the Federal Constitution and laws, and for the enforcement of such obligations as come within the cognizance of the Federal Judiciary. To compel obedience to these laws, the courts have authority to punish all who obstruct their regular administration, and the marshals and their deputies have the same powers as sheriffs and their deputies in the several States in executing the laws of the States. These are the ordinary means provided for the execution of the laws; and the whole spirit of our system is opposed to the employment of any other, except in cases of extreme necessity arising out of great and unusual combinations against them. Their agency must continue to be used until their incapacity to cope with the power opposed to them shall be plainly demonstrated. It is only upon clear evidence to that effect that a military force can be called into the field. Even then its operations must be purely defensive. It can suppress only such combinations as are found directly opposing the laws and obstructing the execution thereof. It can do no more than what might and ought to be done by a civil posse, if a civil posse could be raised large enough to meet the same opposition. On such occasions, especially, the military power must be kept in strict subordination to the civil authority, since it is only in aid of the latter that the former can act at all.

"But what if the feeling in any State against the United States should become so universal that the Federal officers themselves (including judges, district attorneys, and marshals) would be reached by the same influences, and resign their places? Of course, the first step would be to appoint others in their stead, if others could be got to serve. But in such an event, it is more than probable that great difficulty would be found in filling the offices. We can easily conceive how it might become altogether impossible. We are therefore obliged to consider what can be done in case we have no courts to issue judicial process, and no ministerial officers to execute it. In that event troops would certainly be out of place, and their use wholly illegal. If they are sent to aid the courts and marshals, there must be courts and marshals to be aided. Without the exercise of those functions which belong exclusively to the civil service, the laws cannot be executed in any event, no matter what may be the physical strength which the Government has at its command. Under such circumstances to send a military force into any State, with orders to act against the people, would be simply making war upon them.

"The existing laws put and keep the Federal Government strictly on the defensive. You can use force only to repel an assault on the public property and aid the Courts in the performance of their duty. If the means given you to collect the revenue and execute the other laws be insufficient for that purpose, Congress may extend and make them more effectual to those ends.

"If one of the States should declare her independence, your action cannot depend on the rightfulness of the cause upon which such declaration is based. Whether the retirement of the State from the Union be the exercise of a right reserved in the Constitution, or a revolutionary movement, it is certain that you have not in either case the authority to recognize her independence or to absolve her from her Federal obligations. Congress, or the other States in Convention assembled, must take such measures as may be necessary and proper. In such an event, I see no course for you but to go straight onward in the path you have hitherto trodden — that is, execute the laws to the extent of the defensive means placed in your hands, and act generally upon the assumption that the present constitutional relations between the States and the Federal Gevernment continue to exist, until a new code of things shall be established either by law or force.

"Whether Congress has the constitutionsal right to make war against one or more States, and require the Executive of the Federal Government to carry it on by means of force to be drawn from the other States, is a question for Congress itself to consider. It must be admitted that no such power is expressly given; nor are there any words in the Constitution which imply it. Among the powers enumerated in Article 1, Section 8 is that 'to declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and to make rules concerning captures on land and water.' This certainly means nothing more than the power to commence and carry on hostilities against the foreign enemies of the nation. Another clause in the same section gives Congress the power 'to provide for calling forth the militia,' and to use them within the limits of the State. But this power is so restricted by the words which immediately follow that it can be exercised only for one of the following purposes:

To execute the laws of the Union; that is, to aid the Federal officers in the performance of their regular duties.

To suppress insurrections against the State; but this is confined by Article 4, Section 4, to cases in which the State herself shall apply for assistance against her own people.

To repel the invasion of a State by enemies who come from abroad to assail her in her own territory.

All these provisions are made to protect the States, not to authorize an attack by one part of the country upon another; to preserve the peace, and not to plunge them into civil war. Our forefathers do not seem to have thought that war was calculated 'to form a more perfect Union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity.' There was undoubtedly a strong and universal conviction among the men who framed and ratified the Constitution, that military force would not only be useless, but pernicious, as a means of holding the States together.

"If it be true that war cannot be declared, nor a system of general hostilities carried on by the Central Government against a State, then it seems to follow that an attempt to do so would be ipso facto an expulsion of such State from the Union. Being treated as an alien and an enemy, she would be compelled to act accordingly. And if Congress shall break up the present Union by unconstitutionally putting strife and enmity and armed hostility between different sections of the country, instead of the domestic tranquillity which the Constitution was meant to insure, will not all the States be absolved from their Federal obligations? Is any portion of the people bound to contribute their money or their blood to carry on a contest like that?

"The right of the General Government to preserve itself in its whole constitutional vigor by repelling a direct and positive aggression upon its property or its officers cannot by denied. But this is a totally different thing from an offensive war to punish the people for the political misdeeds of their State Government, or to enforce an acknowledgment that the Government of the United States is supreme. The States are colleagues of one another, and if some of them shall conquer the rest, and hold them as subjugated provinces, it would totally destroy the whole theory upon which they are now connected.

"If this view of the subject be correct, as I think it is, then the Union must utterly perish at the moment when Congress shall arm one part of the people against another for any purpose beyond that of merely protecting the General Government in the exercise of its proper constitutional functions.

"I am, very respectfully, yours, etc.,

"J. S. BLACK."

nolu chan  posted on  2019-12-27   20:50:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: nolu chan (#11)

Judge Black's opinion is interesting, reasoned, and ultimately unworkable - if the United States were to be kept together.

Truth is, Black's opinion would have blocked Lincoln from doing exactly what he did: mobilize the various state militias of the Union to create a "Grand Army of the Republic", which then went on to conquer and subjugate the seceding South.

What Black wrote at the end "The States are colleagues of one another, and if some of them shall conquer the rest, and hold them as subjugated provinces, it would totally destroy the whole theory upon which they are now connected", was essentially true in 1860. The Civil War established a new national relationship, and demonstrated that states cannot secede from the Union unless they can win their independence in battle (good luck with that).

That seems reasonable to me. When people think they can just get out of something if they don't like it, they are prone to act that way. When they realize that there is no escape no matter what, they are more inclined, I believe, to work together for mutual benefit even if they can't stand each other, because the only other option is to suffer in the muck together.

Vicomte13  posted on  2019-12-31   10:48:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Vicomte13 (#14)

The Civil War established a new national relationship, and demonstrated that states cannot secede from the Union unless they can win their independence in battle (good luck with that).

SCOTUS did observe,

The Union of the States never was a purely artificial and [74 U.S. 700, 725] arbitrary relation. It began among the Colonies, and grew out of common origin, mutual sympathies, kindred principles, similar interests, and geographical relations. It was confirmed and strengthened by the necessities of war, and received definite form, and character, and sanction from the Articles of Confederation. By these the Union was solemnly declared to 'be perpetual.' And when these Articles were found to be inadequate to the exigencies of the country, the Constitution was ordained 'to form a more perfect Union.' It is difficult to convey the idea of indissoluble unity more clearly than by these words. What can be indissoluble if a perpetual Union, made more perfect, is not?

But the perpetuity and indissolubility of the Union, by no means implies the loss of distinct and individual existence, or of the right of self-government by the States.

Mightily inconvenient to all that is the indisputable historical fact that, under the Articles of Confederation, a declared perpetual union was formed, there were thirteen (13) states in the Union, and when George Washington was inaugurated, there were eleven (11) states in the Union. The impossible happened.

The Congressional Register I, and the history therein, leave absolutely no doubt that Rhode Island and North Carolina were not members of the constitutional union for some time after it was created. In Rhode Island's case, it was more than a year. History seems to dispute indissolubility, but SCOTUS said it, and it has been the law ever since. For that kind of writing, they even put the Chief Justice on a $10,000 bill and named a bank after him.

The 14th Amendment flipped the relationship of the states and the federal government upside down. One of the basic markers of sovereignty is self-determination, and the 14th told the States who were citizens of the States. It is hard to be a truly sovereign State when a higher power decides who is a citizen of the State.

Officially the War of the Rebellion, (a/k/a The Civil War, The War of Northern Aggression, The War for Southern Independence, The War Between the States), is a judicial delight and a never ending foodfight on various websites.

nolu chan  posted on  2019-12-31   17:38:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: nolu chan (#19)

Absolutely. The legal arguments are long and endless.

Of course, I was a career Navy man before I was a lawyer, and it's plain as day that the South was conquered, occupied, and not allowed to vote on its own governance again until it acceded, under force, to constitutional amendments that the bulk of its people opposed. Might, not law, made right.

Interesting that, from a legal perspective, the declaration of the blockade was a mistake. From a military perspective, it was necessary. As you note, it created some legal inconveniences, particularly with respect to England and France. But once again, might made right, and the American capacity to directly threaten English interests (Canada was indefensible were the British to enter an actual shooting war with the USA) was sufficient to keep the British from intervening to benefit the "sovereign belligerent" Southern states (made so by the blockade).

To my military eyes, Lincoln did what was expedient and necessary - the legal justifications were put together to hang a paper mache fig leaf over it, but WHATEVER was necessary, Lincoln was going to do, and some legal justification would be ginned up to cover it. The law is endlessly malleable,anybody can make an argument, and, to quote John Marshall, "Conquest grants a title which the courts of the conqueror are bound to respect." In Lincoln's case, we might add "....or else."

Because the outcome is the one I prefer, I am happy to allow the legal justifications as put together to stand, but I don't really believe it. To my eyes, the Civil War was the failure of the original US Constitution, that some of the forms and norms were respected during the war, but the USA really was akin to a military dictatorship during and after the war, at least in half the country, and that that degree of unconstitutional force was absolutely necessary to reconquer the South.

The blockade, for example, could not be foregone awaiting Union recapture and closing of the Southern ports, for a resupplied South may well have been able to successfully win a war of attrition with the Union. Preserving the unity of the country was more important than respecting the Constitution, in my view, and I don't believe we DID respect the Constitution to win that war. Of course, I recognise that many legalists need to believe we did, to maintain the continuity of their belief systems, so they will fight to the end to find ways to show the constitutionality of everything the Union did.

That's why there will be endless churn in those legal chat boards about the Civil War. It's also why I won't go there. To me, it's obvious that the Union did what it took to defeat the South, and what it took exceeded the limits of the original Constitution. Of course, that does not bother me, being a pragmatist. I understand why legalists cannot accept that and fight on. It makes no difference to me, but to them, it's crucial to their belief system. Sort of like Catholics and infallibility. - for some, that the Church never changed any doctrine is fundamental to their belief, and they never will admit the changes, recharacterising them as necessary to maintain the purity they insist exists (when it obviously doesn't, to others).

Vicomte13  posted on  2020-01-02   7:31:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Vicomte13 (#20)

Of course, I was a career Navy man before I was a lawyer, and it's plain as day that the South was conquered, occupied, and not allowed to vote on its own governance again until it acceded, under force, to constitutional amendments that the bulk of its people opposed. Might, not law, made right.

That is why the 14th amendment isn't a real amendment according to the constitution.

You like lies and deception. It is the way you read the Bible. You like adding to scripture and tearing out pages of gods word and burning them in the fire and pretending they never existed.

You pretend about the constitution and pretend that what some guy in a black robe says is automatically true. You like authority figures. You are a follower not a leader. Kind of a lemming.

Yes I know that what chan says is they way it is working right now. But there is no reason to pretend that they are following the constitution or being truthful about the powers that were delegated to them. Deceiving and being deceived.

A K A Stone  posted on  2020-01-02   8:43:17 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: A K A Stone (#21)

You're a rigid-minded fanatic. In the end, your causes are all defeated.

Vicomte13  posted on  2020-01-02   13:38:42 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 22.

#37. To: Vicomte13 (#22)

I'm no fanatic lizard whisperer. I just like the truth and no stretching it.

A K A Stone  posted on  2020-01-03 21:08:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 22.

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