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Bible Study
See other Bible Study Articles

Title: WEBSITE CLAIM:Bible Proof of the Flat Earth Truth
Source: CELEBRATE TRUTH
URL Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cApXPTrOf7A
Published: Sep 10, 2015
Author: CELBRATE TRUTH
Post Date: 2019-03-28 11:46:23 by Liberator
Keywords: NASA, HOAX, BIBLE-TRUTH
Views: 785
Comments: 67

Genesis 1:7,8 King James Version (KJV)

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.


Poster Comment: YES, I AM GOING THERE

Yes, your immediate and natural visceral reaction will be to fully dismiss "Flat Earth" and this video. (it's relatively short: 15 minutes.) Can such a case be made in just 15 minutes? Maybe. Maybe not. But it might light a fuse.

Q: What do the PTB fear most from the people? A: KNOWLEDGE

That's why they've flooded the culture in "Entertainment" and made us obsessed with Movies, TV, Sports, etc. ANYTHING to distract us from actually knowledge and critical thinking

I admittedly have initially fully dismissed "Flat Earth" as a "Conspiracy Theory" designed to make ALL "Truthers" look foolish

But something happened..

I began noticing MSM, Neil De Grasse, Bill the Science Guy, Discovery Channel, History Channel, YouTube sources ALL discussing the subject. But in panic mode. They were actually going way out of their way to disprove Flat Earth and ridicule it. If it's so absurd, why bother wasting their time

That only made me need to take a closer look at the theory. Once the PTB makes a subject VERBOTEN, one must believe, "Where there's smoke, there's fire."

Then I noticed ridicule and heavy criticism of NBA player Kyrie Irving for his public belief in Flat Earth; Same of Steph Curry for his unbelief of the Moon Landings. (BOTH were forced to apologize.

Hmmm..

That was a Red Flag

If "Flat Earth" is so absurd to begin with, again -- why chastise Curry and Irving spend ANY time and programming to refute others theory and content, and ridicule it? (Is it because they could possibly influence young fans to explore the truth of both matters?

Did you know access to the Antarctica is strictly verboten (other than as brief organized tours? 5,400,000 square miles of earth is completely OFF LIMITS (except to military and "Scientists.") Have you even ever questioned it

You will need to further research the the subject independently. The PTB is currently still in a panic mode; YouTube is busy scrubbing and taking down Flat Earth vids but they keep on popping back up

You will obviously cite a lifetime of staring at globes, "photos from space," the 1960s-70s "Moon Landings," "science," books, space exploration, pictures, movies, Star Trek, history, NASA, "established astronomy"; CONSTANT repetition, imprinting, and conditioning

This is the very same PTB that established "Evolution" as "Settled Science."

This is the very PTB that now say "we lost the technology to get to the moon."

NASA is a complete fraud. They have routinely relied on "Artist Rendering," Photoshop, and CGI for their depictions

(Btw, Where are the Hubble Telescope photos OF EARTH? Or, MOON?

The truth hurts. No one want their reality and belief system turned upside down, so we accept what we're told

We have been lied to. Repeatedly

A Flat Earth requires you to revamp your entire hardwired precepts of this world and literally changes EVERYTHING. Including (especially) about God, Creationism, validation of Genesis, AND our very Physical Realm. As I have, you will have to explore the subject and argument for yourself. Flat Earth theory and explanations ARE convincing. But it will take time to wrap around your head

AN ASIDE:

On what other subjects is discussion, opinion and challenges verboten online or shouted down in public by The Establishment

1) Islam
2) LGBTQ
3) Chemtrails
4) 911
5) Moon Landings
6) 0bama's BC and his entire history
7) Dinosaur Age
8) Evolution
9) Russia Collusion (Wait; Mark that off the list)
10) Age of Earth/Universe (1 image)

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#1. To: Deckard, hondo68, Justified, goldilucky (#0)

PING

Liberator  posted on  2019-03-28   11:48:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: All (#1)

What about the sun's rotations, the time of day, and seasons?

Another 4:00 minutes of your life invested in...THE TRUTH.

If you research Flat Earth further in depth, you come to learn that not only does the "Van Allen Radiation Belt" make space access impossible, but even more so -- the Firmament can NOT nor has not ever been penetrated. Which is why man has never gone to the moon and explore space -- and can't ever.

In frustration, the US and USSR have exploded several nukes in the stratosphere during the 1950s and 1960s (look it up), hoping to smash it. It's been futile.

NASA and the Science Cult continue to remain frustrated. And can't ever let on about any real truth. Thus the "space" charade and Star Trek and "Alien" fantasies go on via movies ad nauseam.

Liberator  posted on  2019-03-28   12:24:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Liberator (#0)

On what other subjects is discussion, opinion and challenges verboten online or shouted down in public by The Establishment?

1) Islam
2) LGBTQ
3) Chemtrails
4) 911
5) Moon Landings
6) 0bama's BC and his entire history
7) Dinosaur Age
8) Evolution
9) Russia Collusion (Wait; Mark that off the list)
10) Age of Earth/Universe

Of course the real conspiracy, Israel collusion is left off the list.

Just PRETEND that Hillary & Donald are not 100% Israel First.

Donald & Hillary, Satan's Fallen Angel Rebels (they ain't Boris & Natasha)


Flat Earth - using yukon like logic (none) they proceed to purposely misinterpret select scripture, and claim victory. Ain't buying it!


Hondo68  posted on  2019-03-28   12:30:35 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: hondo68 (#3) (Edited)

Flat Earth - using yukon like logic (none) they proceed to purposely misinterpret select scripture, and claim victory. Ain't buying it!

Why cite and weaponize the past ridicule and discrediting of Yukon?

Just say you won't and can't bother listening to any Flat Earth theory. It doesn't affect the Truth, my life or my opinion of you.

But to claim a Flat-Earth reality "purposely misinterpret[s] select scripture" and "claim[s] victory tells me you haven't even scraped the surface. If you need to shut down the argument out of the box it's still ok. Most people will.

In an epic turn of irony, it turns out Galileo was actually WRONG. And Vatican RIGHT. The Earth IS the center of all things God created. As is man. Just as God's Scripture states.

The Heliocentric theory (Sun = Center of solar system) is a very young theory based NOT on real science or observation, but on bogus science, presumption of taking the word of the PTB, and MENTAL IMPRINTING, REPETITION and CONDITIONING. Yes, just like the "Theory" of "EVOLUTION."

We currently live in a world in which we have been purposely deceived in many meaningful manners. The deception is increasing.

Discounting Genesis, and with it, a literal Word of God was required in order to advance the absurdly bizarre and proven Evolution Fairy Tale -- and with it the whole "Big Bang" Fairy Tale, "13 billion year old universe" and everything else the Cult of Science" has taught.

Liberator  posted on  2019-03-28   12:53:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: hondo68 (#3) (Edited)

Of course the real conspiracy, Israel collusion is left off the list.

Just PRETEND that Hillary & Donald are not 100% Israel First.

"Collusion" to do WHAT exactly??

When considering the list of "Verboten" subjects and obvious CTs, are you really putting THIS one at the top?? Even IF Trump gives more priority to Israel than he should, how does it affect your life MORE than the others on the list?

If you want to make your case with respect to Israel, please be specific. (btw -- your obsession and hate of Trump is odd -- especially considering all the Monkey Business of OTHER politicians.)

Liberator  posted on  2019-03-28   12:58:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Liberator (#0) (Edited)

Oh, please. Not you!!!

Why do all these science talking heads waste time talking about flat earth? (Not that I know that they are, mind you).

It's because in the info age, digital entertainment is dirt cheap. Also, the planets just don't go around the sun fast enough to require daily updates on their positions, so what else is there in astrophysics to talk about on a daily basis?

As for me, I know that when I hook up a TV to a satellite dish pointed into the heavens, I get a TV signals. While I can't personally vouch for the Apollo missions and other historical claims, I can personally vouch for that one!

And if you want to talk about the PTB's wanting to screw with the population, don't rule out the possibility that they might be the ones that started the flat earth nonsense in the first place!

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-03-28   16:10:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Liberator (#2)

Music by Thomas Bergerson, I think his name is spelled. Track Title "Cry".

It's one of my music tracks on my cell phone I play in my car.

He's quite the musical artist, having made a great many pieces in the "Epic Music" category. The alternate name his work is attributed to is "Two Steps from Hell", which is peculiar. Not one step (Are you freakin' insane?) or 3 steps (Oh come on, don't be a wus!). It's that Goldi-lox zone of TWO steps!

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-03-28   16:20:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Liberator (#4)

The Heliocentric theory (Sun = Center of solar system) is a very young theory based NOT on real science or observation,

Sorry, but that is a patently false statement. I believe it was Copernicus who was attributed credit for the heleo centric theory and it was very much self validating because it cleanly explained why the outer planets seemed to stop and go backwards against the backdrop of stars on a near annual basis as observed from earth. With the sun being the center of the solar system, that apparent reverse movement is explained by earth orbiting the sun (at a much faster speed), and the outer planet movement was then qualified as being relatively constant without any reversals.

Therefore, I think it is objectively true to say the Heliocentric theory was very much validated by observation.

If you are going to go with the Earth being the center of the universe (I acknowledge that could be a completely separate argument that the Earth is flat), be prepared to explain the apparent reverse movements of the outer planets as astronomers from hundreds of years ago did.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-03-28   16:32:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Pinguinite (#6) (Edited)

Oh, please. Not you!!!

I get it.

As I admitted, it wasn't long ago when I'd thought exactly the same way about Flat Earth as others. Desperate "Kooks!" I was as skeptical as anyone.

I never gave Flat Earth ANY thought. UNTIL...I noticed the PTB began to go on the offensive as though they were fighting a real ideological war. And that's THE only reason I even looked into Flat Earth.

Whenever these people, these Liars, fight that hard AGAINST something, I know there's something to it. The more I investigated, the more the weight of proof shifted. Dramatically. Mind-blowingly. And it does tie-in with the Phantom "Space" program (which I've doubted for a while in any case.)

It's because in the info age, digital entertainment is dirt cheap.

Digital info, yes; digital knowledge, no.

As for me, I know that when I hook up a TV to a satellite dish pointed into the heavens, I get a TV signals. While I can't personally vouch for the Apollo missions and other historical claims, I can personally vouch for that one!

The Apollo Missions?? Better re-load and re-examine them.

Your dish is pointed somewhere toward the sky, yes. Could even be pointed more parallel. There are people who do address and explain "satellite" dishes and the dynamics of accessing it's "signals." I found the explanations more than adequate. Though I understand you likely aren't interested enough in the subject to further investigate the hows and whys.

if you want to talk about the PTB's wanting to screw with the population, don't rule out the possibility that they might be the ones that started the flat earth nonsense in the first place!

Funny you should mention that; That happened to be my default position even as of a couple months ago. I considered it a reverse "CT" to make ALL "Truthers" of ALL "CTs" look kooky.

Turns out the PTB are freaking out, and battling hard against Flat Earth, trying like mad to discredit it. If it's that absurd it should just be ignored.

Again, I don't expect you or anyone else to accept this by my word. No one changes their entire world-view overnight. We aren't wired that way. I took me a while to thoroughly investigate the case.

But I promise you this: IF you are patient and listen to the presentations and evidence cited by some Flat-Earth proponents, don't be surprised if you start nodding more and more. This subject by necessity is very well-thought out and points of contention fully addressed.

Liberator  posted on  2019-03-28   16:45:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Liberator (#9)

You are right it's likely pointless to actually debate it, and I'm too busy these days and probably shouldn't even be taking the time to say what I've already said.

But I do respect you from our prior patient discussions and I do think we communicate well. And my respect for you person doesn't change given your posting on flat earth, even though I don't respect your conclusion.

I have listened patiently to the arguments that the moon landings were faked, and have concluded that all of them are flawed in one way or another.

I've listened to a few videos arguing the earth is flat. One illustrated the solar system using coins to a table, and at the conclusion, he argued that it wouldn't be possible to see the same stars 6 months apart because the earth would be on the opposite side of the sun -- either intentionally or ignorantly ignoring the limits of his 2D solar system map to illustrate a 3D universe where stars in the northern hemisphere would always be visible.

Another one argued about the south pole and erroneously implied that the earths magnetic poles are in line with the geographic poles, which is also not true.

So no, if I'm going to take seriously a flat earth argument, it must be one made by people that understand the ramifications of our living in a 3D, not 2D universe, and must have a correct factual understanding of things like the locations of the magnetic poles.

As for the PTB's wanting to push a false narrative, it's very easy for someone who is cognizant of covert PTB's that run the world to believe that everything is a conspiracy, but I maintain that anyone who is ready to believe anything attributed to the work of these PTB's is perhaps more beyond hope than those who don't believe any of it and always accept the official word about all world events and news.

But stepping back a bit, Liberator, one thing I have come to appreciate is the overwhelming capacity of the human mind to believe things that are not true, particularly when it comes to religious issues. A case in point is our difference where I subscribe to the Newton model of life and you subscribe to the traditional, Biblical Christian model. I could ask, if you do believe the PTB's could have created all these false narratives, then couldn't Christianity itself be a false narrative dating back thousands of years?

I'll consider that a rhetorical question to ponder.

But consider that the vast majority of children adopt the religious beliefs of their parents. It's the reason why there are "Muslim Countries". It's obviously not a case where adults commonly reconsider all they've been taught as children and are open to completely revising their beliefs because they have new info. That rarely happens. People, in general, believe what they were taught as children and never ever ever change from that. It's the reason why religious beliefs are not homogeneous throughout the world, and that instead, the Middle east is full of Muslims and Europe is full of Christians. I would argue this is a defect is the human psyche.

That you have apparently been open minded enough to consider earth flatness is a compliment to your open mindedness, and I say that even though I dismiss your current revised opinion on the matter.

But perhaps you would agree with me on this statement: We humans have an overwhelming capacity to believe things that are not true.

I would even dare say that while Christian preachers often lament the lack of faith in society, that the truth is that the problem is not a lack of faith, it's an EXCESS of faith. People are just so damn convinced they are right when they are not. We see it not just in religious matters but in politics and many other spheres too which we see in abundance right here on LF. And if there's one thing that keeps me humble about my confidence in the work of Dr Michael Newton, it's that I am not immune myself to believing false narratives.

I remember once in our discussions you stating you were 100% convinced about Jesus and the Bible as God's Word. And I just shook my head at those words and, well, being honest, I have long ago conceded that the day someone is 100% convinced of anything is the day that person should start being concerned about the accuracy of their world view.

We should be open minded and I tip my hat that you have been open minded on the would being flat. But even so, we have to weigh the evidence fairly. And if I disagree with you on the earth being flat, I'll certainly find it easier to dismiss your objections to the Newton model of life.

Good luck to you. As much as that word applies in this case.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-03-28   17:45:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Pinguinite (#7)

Music by Thomas Bergerson, I think his name is spelled. Track Title "Cry".

It's one of my music tracks on my cell phone I play in my car.

Wild. Must have startled you. It's a visceral, dramatic track.

You're right. by Thomas Bergersen. Alternative name: "Sun" according to the youtube source, who yes, I noticed strangely and ironically names himself/herself, 'Two Steps From Hell'.)

Not one step (Are you freakin' insane?) or 3 steps (Oh come on, don't be a wus!). It's that Goldi-lox zone of TWO steps!

Aaah -- took me a few moments to pick up on that "Just right!" Two-Steps.

He's quite the musical artist, having made a great many pieces in the "Epic Music" category.

Is there such a category? If not, there should be. I like big, epic pieces. Especially live. Thanks for the tip on Thomas Bergerson.

Speaking of the "Epic" category, Miklos Rosza (Ben Hur, King of Kings, El Cid) and John Williams (Star Wars and every Steven Speilberg flick) are two of my favorites. I always considered Mussorgsky's 'Great Gate of Kiev' in there. Here's a great live performance of it.

Liberator  posted on  2019-03-28   18:00:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Liberator (#11)

Is there such a category? If not, there should be. I like big, epic pieces. Especially live. Thanks for the tip on Thomas Bergerson.

Indeed there is! Not on any popular music outlets but do a youbloob search on Epic Music and you'll find quite a bit by a number of artists. Thomas B has been titled a master in the genre, but there are numerous others.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-03-28   18:21:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Pinguinite (#8)

>>>>The Heliocentric theory (Sun = Center of solar system) is a very young theory based NOT on real science or observation....<<<

Sorry, but that is a patently false statement....

...it was very much self validating because it cleanly explained why the outer planets seemed to stop and go backwards against the backdrop of stars on a near annual basis as observed from earth.

I think it is objectively true to say the Heliocentric theory was very much validated by observation.

All the old "rules" are predicated on assumed baselines. The same criteria of established baselines is applied to the debates on the age of the earth as well as universe. For it, it's measurements is "Time."

The Copernican theory remains a theory, an erroneous one for Flat-Earthers. Sun-centered vs. earth-centered solar system will invariably be in conflict. Especially since the "Universe" and "stars" are contained within the Firmament. Or "Dome." (Which rockets are said to "bounce" off, unable to penetrate it. You'll have to research on your own.)

From what *I've* seen and heard -- and it's been plenty -- the Heliocentric model is fully undermined and discredit. Yes, of course again, I know that will make me sound crazy. That I'm all in on this and lay my credibility on the line tells you I've seen and heard the evidence.

I am not an astronomer, but many Flat Earth proponents are -- as well as physicists, mathematicians, and other scientists. If the criteria is "observation," IT and theories of yore have been addressed. And explained in great detail.

This is not a debate that can be argued point by point; This is an entire system that requires entirely new baselines and assumptions. You or anyone else would reasonably necessarily have to watch hours of videos and proponents of Flat Earth as they create their case to a satisfactory degree. *I* have watched several hours. I can point you in the right direction if you'd like.

NASA is just not a credible witness to any of it. If anything, they are discredited as lying through their teeth on countless occasions.

If you are going to go with the Earth being the center of the universe (I acknowledge that could be a completely separate argument that the Earth is flat), be prepared to explain the apparent reverse movements of the outer planets as astronomers from hundreds of years ago did.

Flat-Earth theory is connected; The basis of the Earth-Center theory may never be accepted even by some Flat-Earthers. As you can see by the illustration above, the theory is in accordance with Genesis description and explanation of "The Firmament" *above* AND *below* the earth. The sun and moon are located *within* the Firmament. AS are the stars, planets, "galaxies," etc. Yet...IT IS EXPLAINED. Rationally. Logically. Scientifically. Mathematically. By Observation.

There is no way 99% of people will grasp how this can possibly be AND believe it immediately. Again, we have been conditioned by so sphere-based "Space Doctrine" that the human mind needs to totally rewire and re-wrap a lifetime of "empirical fact," "space" images, books, TV, movies, commercials, etc. Most won't ever even take the First Baby Step towards investigation. I get it.

By the same token, NASA's serial and circumstantial lies, cover ups, Astronaut "interviews" are embarrassing.

NASA has been given carte blanche for creative and artistic license. They have fully exploited it. The alleged "Moon Landings" have been painstakingly dis-proven by several physical and scientific criteria, metrics, and various measures of tangible proof.

The side that has everything at stake is "Science"; Because IF proven false, it's entire house of cards tumbles -- from Big Bang to Evolution, to Infinite Space, to Alien Life, to the very fundamentals of Earth Science, Astronomy, to entire belief systems. This is why traditional earth science and astronomy is so fervently defended and "Flat Earth" so rigorously attacked.

This truly is "The Mother of ALL Hoaxes." I would posit that "Flat Earth" is THE PTB's #1 Most Feared "Conspiracy Theory."

Liberator  posted on  2019-03-28   18:49:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Liberator (#13)

I have just put my tin foil hat on to prevent mind control by the flat earthers, honestly don't we have more important things to debate, like where did the Annanaki come from

paraclete  posted on  2019-03-28   21:17:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Liberator (#13)

Your comments are "Weird."

buckeroo  posted on  2019-03-28   22:13:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Liberator, Pinguinite (#9)

Flat Earth view from space:

Alternate
text if image doesn't load

Actual view from space:

Alternate text if image doesn't load

If the earth were indeed flat as you claim, all of the images shot from space should show the entire earth, not just half of it..

Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen.
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.

Deckard  posted on  2019-03-29   10:42:49 ET  (2 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: paraclete (#14)

Honestly don't we have more important things to debate, like where did the Annanaki come from...

You're Russian Orthodox, right?

I have just put my tin foil hat on to prevent mind control by the flat earthers...

Just make sure you buy it at Jim Rob's FR gift shop.

I'm fine with people like you. I understand. You and most people would much rather not shake up their entire belief system. It's counter-intuitive.

If you believe the "Science Authoritahs" have been honest about their agenda, research; About their "facts" about the "Big Bang," "Evolution," space travel, the moon landing, supposed age of the earth and dinosaurs, well then -- who am I to tell you otherwise?

That said, I don't have much respect for people who dismiss rational, logical, and factual counter-arguments off-hand without even a cursory examination.

Liberator  posted on  2019-03-29   11:03:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Deckard (#16)

FISH-EYE LENS.

Next.

Liberator  posted on  2019-03-29   11:03:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Deckard (#16)

Moreover, photo shop and CGI routinely creates these types of images in a snap.

There are COUNTLESS accounts and proven of image manipulations by NASA. Why don't you research all the images of the flattened earth?

Liberator  posted on  2019-03-29   11:06:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: buckeroo (#15)

Your comments are "Weird."

Of course they are.

I'd go as far as saying my comments and "Flat Earth theory arr "alien" as well.

ALL new information is.

Liberator  posted on  2019-03-29   11:08:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Pinguinite (#12)

I listened to all four of these tracks as I prepared dinner. Really good stuff. Thanks...

They touch the heart.

Liberator  posted on  2019-03-29   11:09:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Liberator (#0)

I admittedly have initially fully dismissed "Flat Earth" as a "Conspiracy Theory" designed to make ALL "Truthers" look foolish.

Your initial assessment was correct. Why did this bogus "Flat Earth" theory suddenly become an issue in the past few years? This is a deliberate CIA psy-op designed to discredit valid discussion on REAL conspiracies and to take down every single truth-oriented website.

Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen.
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.

Deckard  posted on  2019-03-29   11:15:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Liberator (#19)

Moreover, photo shop and CGI routinely creates these types of images in a snap.

Oh, so now you say every single image of the earth shot from space is photoshopped? Every photo shot from a plane that shows the curvature of the earth?

Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen.
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.

Deckard  posted on  2019-03-29   11:17:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Liberator (#18)

FISH-EYE LENS.

If the earth were flat, photos from space would show THE ENTIRE EARTH!

Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen.
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.

Deckard  posted on  2019-03-29   11:18:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Deckard, Liberator (#22)

This is a deliberate CIA psy-op designed to discredit valid discussion on REAL conspiracies and to take down every single truth-oriented website.

If anyone is to believe in conspiracy theories, this one should be at the top of the list. Being tricked into following up on fake theories is certainly something a real mass psy-op operation would want carried out. Nothing discredits a correct conspiracy theory like getting a proponent to start echoing a bunch of fake ones along with it. It's certainly something made possible only by the internet information age.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-03-29   11:23:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Pinguinite (#10)

I appreciate and respect that you have at least stuck a big toe into exploring Flat Earth research. Navigating through the muck is tricky. I also appreciate your kind words.

There are admittedly a lot of sources to consider. But one other thing to consider which I'd discovered; MOST "Flat Earth" videos and articles are framed to COUNTER Flat Earth and provide controlled-Opposition arguments.

If you are interested in seeing/hearing the sources and explanations that counter your above arguments, please PM. If not, no worries. I realize you are busy, and in the grand scheme of things, this issue isn't pressing.

As for the PTB's wanting to push a false narrative, it's very easy for someone who is cognizant of covert PTB's that run the world to believe that everything is a conspiracy, but I maintain that anyone who is ready to believe anything attributed to the work of these PTB's is perhaps more beyond hope than those who don't believe any of it and always accept the official word about all world events and news.

As with most "systems", there must be a working model where dynamics work logically, rationally, with reason, and truthfully presented.

The best way I can summarize what's going on these days:

The best propaganda is said to blend truth with fiction. The PTB long ago set up a baseline of truth and fact. In my opinion as well as many others, as they began controlling more facets of society and public opinion, what began as a slow boil of the frog, increased.

We may be at a point in society, in civilization were never have the PTB lied to the extent they have while overtly pushing a very specific agenda. If this thesis is accepted, then ALL institutions by default MUST promote and advance this agenda -- regardless of truth.

But stepping back a bit, Liberator, one thing I have come to appreciate is the overwhelming capacity of the human mind to believe things that are not true, particularly when it comes to religious issues. A case in point is our difference where I subscribe to the Newton model of life and you subscribe to the traditional, Biblical Christian model. I could ask, if you do believe the PTB's could have created all these false narratives, then couldn't Christianity itself be a false narrative dating back thousands of years?

I'll consider that a rhetorical question to ponder. That's actually a very good question. And why I always consider our exchanges thought-provoking and fascinating.

In brief: Not even the PTB can control the Sovereignty and Truth of The Almighty.

But consider that the vast majority of children adopt the religious beliefs of their parents. It's the reason why there are "Muslim Countries". It's obviously not a case where adults commonly reconsider all they've been taught as children and are open to completely revising their beliefs because they have new info. That rarely happens. People, in general, believe what they were taught as children and never ever ever change from that. It's the reason why religious beliefs are not homogeneous throughout the world, and that instead, the Middle east is full of Muslims and Europe is full of Christians. I would argue this is a defect is the human psyche.

Hmmm...

Yes, I agree.

"Human psyche...or defect and/OR corruption of the human spirit and heart?

That you have apparently been open minded enough to consider earth flatness is a compliment to your open mindedness, and I say that even though I dismiss your current revised opinion on the matter.

But perhaps you would agree with me on this statement: We humans have an overwhelming capacity to believe things that are not true.

Believe me -- my "open mindedness" of merely considering the validity of Flat Earth has completely caught me by surprise. But then again, if my quest in life is about the Truth, then I can't be selective, can I? With respect to your dismissal of it, again, its understandable.

With respect to your statement -- yes, I agree 100%; man is absolutely prone to major manipulation and deception. That's why mankind is mired in mass confusion and strife, isn't it?

I would even dare say that while Christian preachers often lament the lack of faith in society, that the truth is that the problem is not a lack of faith, it's an EXCESS of faith. People are just so damn convinced they are right when they are not. We see it not just in religious matters but in politics and many other spheres too which we see in abundance right here on LF. And if there's one thing that keeps me humble about my confidence in the work of Dr Michael Newton, it's that I am not immune myself to believing false narratives.

Interesting observation and thesis.

To much extent, I obviously agree with you. All matters of Dogma are difficult to break free from -- especially if they are harmful.

"Faith" is one of those words or concepts that could have wide-ranging definitions and connotations. There is "Faith in the Gospel," "Faith in the Space Program," "Faith in the Republican Party," "Faith in Law Enforcement". We have seen ALL defended excessively as you allude to...to the hilt at forums just like this.

The only "Faith" worthy (for me) would be faith in anything, anyone OTHER than man. That obviously mean Faith in God, in His word. All others are proven infallible.

Regarding your comment about Dr. Newton, humility and false narratives, I have read it a few times; there are a couple different perspectives I was processing from your gist. But yes -- we are certainly prone to digesting false narratives, aren't we? Whether in moments of weakness, lacking enough information, and personal bias and belief systems to begin with.

I remember once in our discussions you stating you were 100% convinced about Jesus and the Bible as God's Word. And I just shook my head at those words and, well, being honest, I have long ago conceded that the day someone is 100% convinced of anything is the day that person should start being concerned about the accuracy of their world view.

*chuckling*

Well Ping, I would agree with you on part of your cynicism of being all-in and trusting Man 100%.

That said, if anything, I can now report and assure you that never have I been more certain of the Bible as the inspired Word of God and Jesus Christ as Savior. The Almighty and His authority obviously lie OUTSIDE of mankind's realm, and man's laws.

Rhetorically speaking, for a true Christian Believer, how can faith in the Gospel and the Truth be comprised? When Jesus said, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me,” (John 14:6) he gave no wiggle room for 98% or 99% faith.

Reinforcing some of your thesis and thoughts, I find the following historical significance interesting and Game-Changer (not in a good way)...

ONE of the major stumbling blocks for sabotaging belief in and account of the Bible just happen to be right out of the box in Genesis and its account of Creation, Adam and Eve. Coincidentally, 99% of all Christians believed Genesis. That is UNTIL Darwin's Theory of Evolution was heavily promoted by "Science" and the Academe as the PTB went on to use and advance it to undermine credibility of the Bible till this day. Ironically, "Evolutionism" has itself evolved into as much a "Religion" as any, defended in many cases as fervently as Muslims defend Islam. So there's that.

We should be open minded and I tip my hat that you have been open minded on the would being flat. But even so, we have to weigh the evidence fairly.

Again, I do appreciate your acknowledgment of at least exploring evidence beyond our contemporary, social constructs of institutional (PTB) dogma. Sometimes the Emperor IS naked. Sometimes quite often as it turns out these days. The vast majority of people have always found it much easier not to rock the boat.

And if I disagree with you on the earth being flat, I'll certainly find it easier to dismiss your objections to the Newton model of life.

Fair enough. I understand the rationale and expect you as well as 95% of everyone to be dismissive of Flat Earth. There's actually a lot at stake psychologically. I don't expect more than 5% to navigate and find the truth beyond controlled-op and disinfo sites. However to be clear, I have investigated and vetted Newton and his research and theories quite a bit -- far more than you might realize.

Liberator  posted on  2019-03-29   12:58:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Deckard (#22)

Why did this bogus "Flat Earth" theory suddenly become an issue in the past few years?

Because valid and effective arguments, and presentation of logical explanations were finally be able to find the light of day. The PTB panic once a "CT" gains traction and become viral. You already know this dance given "Truther" staples such as 911, The "Moon Landings," "Chemtrails," 0bama BC, etc.

This is a deliberate CIA psy-op designed to discredit valid discussion on REAL conspiracies and to take down every single truth-oriented website.

I hear ya as far as it IS a valid argument.

I would counter that assessment for many reasons. The obvious would be the illogical massive army of MSM, G00gle searches manipulation, and insane number of YT site dedicated to discrediting and dismissing Flat Earth.

The REAL "Psy-Op" and connected programming of all of us has been...Darwin's "Evolution," imprinting the notion of "Infinite Space," "global" earth, the entire "Space Exploration" program, the NASA hoax, and the rest of what's designed to elevate MAN and marginalize God.

Btw -- check out this thread...one SINGLE poster challenged the "Moon Landings" over at FR. This is Exhibit "A" of how ANY truth, back by evidence is shouted down by mob-mentality.

You more than most people should appreciate this.

https://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/3712014/posts?page=59#59

Liberator  posted on  2019-03-29   13:14:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Deckard (#23)

Oh, so now you say every single image of the earth shot from space is photoshopped? Every photo shot from a plane that shows the curvature of the earth?

I'm going to strongly suggest that you look at this issue and research it from the OUTSIDE-IN. Your own eyes should resolve provide your OWN proof. That is if you're able to run the gauntlet of PTB Gate-Keepers.

If you won't or can't or continue to dismiss the case, nothing I can say will change your mind.

Remember -- I once stood EXACTLY where you are.

Liberator  posted on  2019-03-29   13:19:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Deckard (#24)

If the earth were flat, photos from space would show THE ENTIRE EARTH!

The ONLY "space" photos are "taken" by NASA. No thanks.

Check out vids taken from civilian balloons from 80,000'-120,000k'. NOTE: "Go PRO" lens are fish-eye. Some guys have even taking infrared vid from a plane that extends 500+ miles. Look out the window from a jet the next time you have a window seat.

This is just ONE facet of Flat Earth.

If you'd like links via PM, let me know. Or not.

Liberator  posted on  2019-03-29   13:27:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Pinguinite, Deckard (#25)

If anyone is to believe in conspiracy theories, this one should be at the top of the list.

Yup. Definitely The Mother of ALL "CTs".

It's certainly something made possible only by the internet information age.

That says it all, doesn't it?

ONLY in the "internet information age" can truth (or widespread propaganda) be spread virally. This is extremely dangerous for the PTB.

For that exact reason, they are heavily censoring the internet...and shutting down what THEY consider "CT".

(Isn't it odd that somehow "RUSSIA COLLUSION" was NOT considered a YUGE "CT??)

Liberator  posted on  2019-03-29   13:33:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Deckard, ALL (#22)

Genesis 1 New King James Version (NKJV)

The History of Creation

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.

6 Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” 7 Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. So the evening and the morning were the second day.

9 Then God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land Earth, and the gathering together of the waters He called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

11 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, and the fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth”; and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 13 So the evening and the morning were the third day.

14 Then God said, “Let there be lights in the firmament of the heavens to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs and seasons, and for days and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16 Then God made two great [d]lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He made the stars also. 17 God set them in the firmament of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 So the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

20 Then God said, “Let the waters abound with an abundance of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the face of the firmament of the heavens.” 21 So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 And God blessed them, saying, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.” 23 So the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24 Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth the living creature according to its kind: cattle and creeping thing and beast of the earth, each according to its kind”; and it was so. 25 And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

29 And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. 30 Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is [i]life, I have given every green herb for food”; and it was so. 31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. So the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Please notice and examine closely God's own description and location of "Firmament" and respective placement. The Firmament is both below and above the waters, "dividing" them.

Also please notice where God has placed His "Lights" - which are the stars, moon, and sun: IN the Firmament."

If the Genesis Creation account is to be believed literally, some obvious problems are presented for the whole "Infinite Outer Space" paradigm....

That is IF Christians are to take Genesis and Scripture as the inspired "Word of God" fully and not selectively.

So how much weight should Genesis be given when considering the theories of Space Travel, Evolution, and "Big Bang"?

Liberator  posted on  2019-03-29   14:41:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Liberator (#20)

ALL new information is. [FLAT EARTH SOCIETY]

Oh sure. Within the entire UNIVERSE most celestial objects are articulated as "circular." That means physical forces "spin" materials in space.

You are providing "false data."

buckeroo  posted on  2019-03-29   21:34:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Liberator (#21)

I listened to all four of these tracks as I prepared dinner. Really good stuff. Thanks...

These are among my favorites, for sure.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-03-29   22:00:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Liberator (#26)

I don't have the time or patience to actually hear the case advocating a flat earth. The USSC only hears about 1% of the cases brought to it. It's that low simply because of limited resouces, and my time is similarly limited. The only way I'd make time for it is if there was some significant piece of evidence that could not be explained by currently accepted astrophysics, and I'm unaware of any such evidence. An example would be the sun setting at the same time on the US east coast as the US west coast. To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever suggested that it does. Do you?

I have a contact in India I've been working with. If the earth is flat, then him starting his daily routine at around 11 PM is very, very odd!

As I see it, occam's razor philosophy is properly applied. The simplest explanation is the likely correct one. Just because someone *can* come up with alternate explanations for a situation does not mean it should supplant another simpler explanation, and a spherical earth is FAR FAR FAR more simple an explanation than all one would need to come up with to explain our observations with a flat earth.

In discerning truth, whether about our universe or about God, it seems to me we have no choice but to rely on our limited minds to reach those conclusions. And my limited mind finds it quite unjust that an Almighty God would allow the fate of my eternal soul hang on the conclusions of my limited mind. Does it even make sense that God would make our eternal destiny contingent upon the academic conclusions of a human mind so very prone to trickery and delusion?

How many parents would approve of seeing their kids put to death if they scored poorly in math? Hardly any, of course. And yet, you would have everyone believe that God would do the same for His children who score poorly in theology? Seriously? That is what it comes down to, isn't it? You must score sufficiently well in theology -- and yet even you must admit that a perfect score is not required -- to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. You must believe Jesus is the Son of God, and yet, it's okay if you don't spell his name correctly because English didn't exist 2000 years ago. You also don't need to pronounce his name right -- I hope -- as the name Jesus is pronounced quite differently in various languages. You also don't have to know what he looked like physically -- also a good thing as there are no photographs telling us that -- unless the Shroud of Turin is authentic, but even then, the Bible does not require the viewing of the Shroud to be saved.

When was he born? Well, we're not totally sure of that either. 4 BC? Maybe. Did it really happen on the winter solstice which is about the time we celebrate Christmas? Ultimately we don't know that either. So how much do we really know about this man we today call Jesus? Apparently, not very much BUT... it's okay somehow for us to misspell & mispronounce his name and have a completely different face in our minds when we ask him into our hearts because, well, apparently God does afford us some leeway in judging our theology.

And I guess for me that's the Achilles heel of any religion that declares it's theology a requirement for salvation. Why would God afford us only some leeway in errant theology and not full leeway? Or going farther, why would God even care if our honest understanding was completely wrong? Why wouldn't God care more about the choices we make in life. Our choices to love or hate, our choices to help others or be selfish rather than our academic understanding of the spiritual realm? Just as you and I, Liberator, can get along just perfectly even though our beliefs about the earth being round or flat is is completely incompatible, why is it that somehow, my not understanding theology correctly would put me at odds with the Almighty to the point where my eternal soul is in danger? As though God will hold my academic understanding against me? Is God even more petty about academic understanding that you and I are? Is that the message you would advocate here about the Almighty?

I sure don't. And that is just one of the many aspects of Michael Newton's findings that for me rings true. In the Newton model, God doesn't care one whit what our academic beliefs are. Rather, he cares about the decisions we make *given* what we believe. Are we embellishing our virtues? Are we quashing our vices? Are we loving others?

I am impressed if you have researched Newton's book, perhaps reading it entirely, if that's what you mean. If so, you are the first person I know of who has done so due to bantering of the subject with me. And I guess, just as a round earth explains the physical observations far more simply than does a flat earth does, the Michael Newton model explains God much better than Christianity does. For me at least, which is why I ultimately have to go with the Newton model. And why wouldn't I, when this model shows God to be more patient, more majestic, more loving and less petty than Christianity does? (Or is it possible that my expectations of God's greatness are..... overblown and exaggerated? If so, I expect we are all doomed anyway! haha)

Anyway, duty calls. I might be up for discussing single arguments related to earth flatness or moon landings on occasion, but I can't justify dedicating the equivalent of a college course of time and effort into hearing the whole case.

Best to ya, Liberator.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-03-29   23:59:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Liberator, pinguinite (#0)

The earth isn't flat. That is a retarded concept.

God said he sits on the circle of the earth.

. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-03-30   7:14:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Liberator (#29)

The ONLY "space" photos are "taken" by NASA. No thanks.

I guess Elon Musk must be in on the conspiracy as well?

Does SpaceX "photoshop" their images taken from space?

Alternate text if image doesn't load

Did they photoshop all of the video from orbiting satellites showing the earth as a globe?

Here's another one shot in real time.

Yeah, that's obviously faked. < / sarcasm >

Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen.
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.

Deckard  posted on  2019-03-30   8:34:37 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: A K A Stone (#35)

The earth isn't flat. That is a retarded concept.

God said he sits on the circle of the earth.

Yes, let's listen to God. (Have you read the Genesis Creation account and God's description of the "Firmament"? Would God lie to us? OR would Man?)

Below is the entire quote from Isaiah 40:22 (KJV). (No small detail: A "circle" is NOT a "globe" or "ball." And yes, the Bible translations did have a word for "ball" -- but God did not use it in this case. Or any other case.)

"It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in

Moreover, God explains the heavens as "a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell." (The "tent" is "The Firmament" mentioned in Genesis.)

Job 26:10

10 He marks out the horizon on the face of the waters for a boundary between light and darkness.

Psalm 75:3

3 When the earth and all its people quake, it is I who hold its pillars firm.

Psalm 93:1

1 The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in majesty and armed with strength; indeed, the world is established, firm and secure.

Psalm 104:5

5 He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved.

Revelation 7:1

1 After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree.

We must all explore this theory firm a starting point; Mine was The Bible. I wanted to review first what God has said about his Creation. His description of "Firmament" needed to be revisited.

If you're further interested in God's description of the place in which we live, the video below provides a perspective that flies in the face of "Science's truth."

WHOM shall we believe? God in his own words?

OR... God-denying, God-hating, scheming "Science"?

Liberator  posted on  2019-03-30   10:57:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: A K A Stone (#35)

God said he sits on the circle of the earth.

A circle and a sphere are 2 different things. Something could be a circle, and still be flat.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-03-30   10:58:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Deckard (#36)

Elon Musk

Musk is working directly WITH NASA. His rockets go NOWHERE but parallel. ALL SHOW. ALL THEATER.

I checked out your vids...But not all hour and a half of NASA's same repetition. I watched enough of it's imagery to assess it.

Painfully CGI aided. If not clearly aided by a fish lens. The close ups of earth ARE real vids, but taken from fairly close proximity to the earth's surface. ANY film NASA takes from this close distance will still be taken with a curved lens to reflect a slight bend.

The satellite camera JUST happened to catch both the aurora borealis AND several lightning strikes and most every other known atmospheric phenomena? Heckuva coincidence.

This video might help explain NASA tricks of the trade:

GoPro Official Sponsor of The NASA Deception

Liberator  posted on  2019-03-30   11:18:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Pinguinite, A K A Stone (#38)

Something could be a circle, and still be flat.

Roger on that.

Liberator  posted on  2019-03-30   11:19:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: buckeroo (#32) (Edited)

ALL new information is. [FLAT EARTH SOCIETY]

Nope. FLAT EARTH SOCIETY is a controlled opposition group. Always has been. It's info is a blend of truth and lies (aka propaganda) designed to reinforce the perception of Flat Earth as a joke.

Within the entire UNIVERSE most celestial objects are articulated as "circular." That means physical forces "spin" materials in space.

How did you conclude both? That celestial objects are "circular"? AND spinning?

They may actually be "circular" but NOT proven to be globes, nor "spinning," NOR in orbit.

The only objects that are proven to move the slightest (despite the "re-positioning" of "planet" earth via seasonal axis) are the Sun and Moon....and "planets."

Liberator  posted on  2019-03-30   11:34:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: Pinguinite (#34)

I have a contact in India I've been working with. If the earth is flat, then him starting his daily routine at around 11 PM is very, very odd!

The opposite ends of the earth, day and night? Yup...

Post #3 and the 4:00 minute vid is outstanding and should actually help explain and address the issue of time of day and exactly how the moon an sun revolve around a flat earth.

Liberator  posted on  2019-03-30   11:49:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Liberator (#41)

They may actually be "circular" but NOT proven to be globes, nor "spinning," NOR in orbit.

Does not the illumination of the moon showing the various phases over the course of the month not illustrate that it must be a globe and not flat disk?

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-03-30   11:54:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: Liberator (#39) (Edited)

GoPro Official Sponsor of The NASA Deception

Oh for crying out loud!

Is there anyone not a part of this vast conspiracy?

You don't believe the photos - they're FAKED.

The videos are FAKED.

It's a vast conspiracy to cover up the truth (as you see it) and Elon Musk, NASA, Go-pro and all of the scientists and astronauts are all in on it.

BTW, how is it that we have to bounce radio and TV signals off satellites in order for the signals to reach distant places?

If the earth is flat, those signals from one location should be able to be picked up from anywhere on earth.

Ever heard of Line-of-sight propagation?

What a pity.

The satellite camera JUST happened to catch both the aurora borealis AND several lightning strikes and most every other known atmospheric phenomena? Heckuva coincidence.

Considering the size of the earth (which is a globe) and the prevalence of these events, I'm not surprised at all.

View of the earth from a plane.

Alternate text if image doesn't load

Obviously fake.

Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen.
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.

Deckard  posted on  2019-03-30   11:59:16 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: Liberator (#42)

Post #3 and the 4:00 minute vid is outstanding and should actually help explain and address the issue of time of day and exactly how the moon an sun revolve around a flat earth.

Post #2, I think you mean.

The illustration is woefully erroneous. I was the top geometry student in all of my teachers classes and I can assure you that given that illustration, the sun would be visible from any and every point on a flat earth 24/7. The only difference is in how far the sun was from any given point on the earth at any given time, and no one would *ever* see the sun set below the horizon.

The fallacy of flat earth theory is beyond obvious, Liberator.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-03-30   12:09:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: Pinguinite, A K A Stone (#43)

Does not the illumination of the moon showing the various phases over the course of the month not illustrate that it must be a globe and not flat disk?

Legit question. One I was compelled to myself as well.

First, here's NASA's explanation as to why we can only see one side of the Moon:

["We don’t see the far side because] the moon is tidally locked to the Earth,” said John Keller, deputy project scientist for NASA’s Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter project. “The moon does rotate, but it rotates at the same speed that it rotates around the Earth.”

HUH??

Anyhoo, I have watched several long vids that have explained and illustrate the lunar phases.

In the following vid I believe someone has done a great job. Some commentary would help even more, which was the case in other vids I've watched.

In the Flat Earth model, both the Moon and Sun move at different speeds in different orbits around the disk depending on the season, but always facing the earth without "revolving."

The time of day with respect to the Sun remains unaffected in either Flat Earth of Global model.

An aside: You'll also note the "edge" of the earth is rimmed by white -- it is the Antarctica. On the "map," it provides the "edge" or containment.

Below is 2+ min vid with 3D visual that happens to illustrate different depths and angles of the Sun and Moon, AND "planets."

Since you had also asked about the planets and their movement, I thought this could help address the issue visually. The Bible (Jude 13) describes the reason as well; The explanation for planets (described as "wondering stars") is amazing. And like the Sun, Moon and stars, the planets/"wondering stars" are located fully within "The Firmament."

Liberator  posted on  2019-03-30   13:13:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: Liberator (#46)

The first video is clearly a misrepresentation of actual observation.

Imagine you were in central America and watching the move as it passes overhead as the day progresses, and the sun and moon were postioned at, say 90 degrees from the north pole. In the morning, you'd see only a sliver of the moon illumunated. but as the day wore on, more and more of it would be illuminated, largely resetting by the following morning.

Illustrated another way, at any given point in time, people world over would see the moon illuminated in different ways.

This is NOT what we, including you, see in the sky. Clearly, plainly, obviously, the moon phase does NOT change like that throughout the day. Whatever the phase is at moon rise, it's pretty much the same at moon set 12 hours later, and the phase of the moon is almost identical for everyone no matter where they are located on earth.

My prior question was not about the same side of the moon always facing the earth. Rather it was about the sun illuminating the moon as we would expect any sphere to be illuminated by a single light source. But it seems the contention is that while the earth is flat, the moon is still a sphere and not a disk like the earth is.

I like you, buddy, but you haven't thought this through critically enough.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-03-30   13:39:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: Deckard (#44)

Oh for crying out loud!

Is there anyone not a part of this vast conspiracy?

Wait Wait Wait... Has Deckard been hacked by Gatlin?

The only person at LF who might have been more a "Conspiracy Theorist" than me was you.

Turns out the rabbit hole is deeper than you or most imagined or want to explore. The truth shall set us free.

It's a vast conspiracy to cover up the truth (as you see it) and Elon Musk, NASA, Go-pro and all of the scientists and astronauts are all in on it.

"Astronauts"?? Have you even checked out exactly what our "astronauts" have been doing?? Their stunts and interviews in front of CGI backdrops? Their interviews at NASA have been embarrassing to say the least. Whooping and hollering as though they are presiding over Pyramid Scheme conventions. They also answer NO questions plainly and clearly. Don't believe me though -- investigate it yourself.

Scientists"?? You mean the same ones who insist we're all doomed cuz of "Global Warming"? "We're all gonna die!"?? "Vaccines are safe"?? Tell us "trans"-whatever is legit??

"Scientists say..."... "Researchers say..." "NASA says..."..."The Institute says..." "According to official sources...."

We are PROGRAMMED to be stopped dead in our tracks by the supposed Authoritahs of the cult of "Science" etal. THIS is exactly why Sheeple are being led to slaughter.

QUESTION:

Are "they all" involved in the CT regarding 911? The JFK hit? Chemtrails? Vaccines? "Global Warming"? "Evolution"? "The Moon Landings"? Every False Flag you've claimed in the past?

Just one more question: Do you believe NASA has landed a man on the moon 50 years ago?

View of the earth from a plane. Obviously fake.

Not fake. Just a photo using lens that purposely distort the image.

Liberator  posted on  2019-03-30   13:42:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Pinguinite (#47)

You haven't thought this through critically enough.

I appreciate the sentiments, but I have not only most thoroughly "thought it through," but researched and weighed the evidence of Flat Earth. The proof is overwhelming.

I fully understand if you (or others) haven't the time to do the same.

Liberator  posted on  2019-03-30   13:44:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: Liberator (#49)

I fully understand if you (or others) haven't the time to do the same.

No I do not. But good luck to you and I'll see you around.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-03-30   13:51:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: Liberator (#48) (Edited)

Wait Wait Wait... Has Deckard been hacked by Gatlin?

And so it begins - I disagree with you on this particular theory and suddenly my opinions are now identical to Gatlin's.

View of the earth from a plane. Obviously fake.

Not fake. Just a photo using lens that purposely distort the image.

Oh right, every camera and cell phone ever made deliberately distorts the images they photograph.

Are "they all" involved in the CT regarding 911? The JFK hit? Chemtrails? Vaccines? "Global Warming"? "Evolution"? "The Moon Landings"? Every False Flag you've claimed in the past?

My opinions and beliefs on those topics have remained relatively unchanged. This flat earth kookery is something else entirely.

You've become obsessed on this topic to the point that you even dismiss your allies as Gatlin clones.

If someone dismisses the flat earth theory as wrong, they are anathema to the entire truth movement.

This is exactly what was intended - throw this flat earth thing into the mix and you discredit all other conspiracies.

Pure Tavistock/CIA Psy-Ops.

Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen.
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.

Deckard  posted on  2019-03-30   14:22:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: Pinguinite (#50)

And to you as well. No hard feelings.

Liberator  posted on  2019-03-30   14:28:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: Deckard (#51)

If someone dismisses the flat earth theory as wrong, they are anathema to the entire truth movement.

Of course not.

But if one dismisses any CT theory as "wrong" -- without so much as a cursory examination -- it merely makes them dismissive as a matter of inability or unwillingness to psychologically open that door. (Isn't this what's frustrated you about Gatlin and others?) This phenomena includes most people -- I don't mean to pick on Gatlin specifically.

I've noticed that of ALL the insane theories out there that are discussed, Flat Earth discussion is THE ONE that happens to be the trigger that makes people "kooks." That door has been slammed shut quite well by the PTB. That it's considered verboten by the PTB tells me it's THE most dangerous CT. Most compelling. Smoke/Fire.

My opinions and beliefs on those topics have remained relatively unchanged. This flat earth kookery is something else entirely.

The Moon Landings -- do you believe they happened? Btw -- One person's "truth" is another's "kookery."

You've become obsessed on this topic to the point that you even dismiss your allies as Gatlin clones.

My Flat Earth interest and discovery is not an "obsession" any more than any "Truther" or subject considered "CT". There is reason for deeper examination. Btw -- I've remained on this one and only thread to discuss it.

Ok...You aren't suddenly a Gatlin clone. But you might have contracted his anti-CT DNA somehow. Lighten up.

This is exactly what was intended - throw this flat earth thing into the mix and you discredit all other conspiracies.

Pure Tavistock/CIA Psy-Ops.

It's a CT about a CT that gives reason to discredit all CTs?

Look -- If you recall, *I* had indeed suggested here at LF that all the recent "Flat Earth" traction was intended to be THE CT that helps discredit all the other "Conspiracy Theories." I considered Flat Earth a "Bridge/CT Too Far."

The only reason I even stuck my head into the Flat Earth tent to check into it was only because way too many MSM sources were dedicating way too much time and effort into DIS-CREDITING IT.

It turns out quite few other people instinctively felt the same way. Ergo the door was opened. And lo, there is treasure.

If we buy into the theory the PTB had actually been promoting Flat Earth, has their gambit worked well OR backfired?

The theory that Flat Earth traction was only the result of a successful counter-CT Psyop is effective ONLY if the PTB can actually control the entire narrative. Thus far they aren't. It's now out of hand. That's the problem for them. But...they'll keep on purging and censoring ALL truth until there is only their version of "truth."

My take is that Flat Earth took off because people are concluding the PTB is lying about EVERYTHING. That is causing them to question and closely re-examine NASA, scrutinize its present, its history and the "Science" -- along with Flat Earth theory and possibility for the first time.

This post should conclude our exchange on the subject. We understand where we both stand. No hard feelings with you or anyone else.

Liberator  posted on  2019-03-30   15:53:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: Liberator (#17)

That said, I don't have much respect for people who dismiss rational, logical, and factual counter-arguments off-hand without even a cursory examination.

cursory examination! I have flown around the Earth, how is that possible if the earth is flat, if you get up high enough you can see the curvature of the Earth. Just because part of the Earth is flat doesn't make the whole, damn thing flat. If the Earth is flat, why is temperature higher at the Equator than at the poles. You would have me believe that Antartica extends from the south to the north

paraclete  posted on  2019-03-30   17:45:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: Liberator (#52)

And to you as well. No hard feelings.

None whatsoever!

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-03-30   22:20:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: Liberator (#17)

You're Russian Orthodox, right?

hat said, I don't have much respect for people who dismiss rational, logical, and factual counter-arguments off-hand without even a cursory examination.

1. no I'm Pentecostal

2. Please provide rational, logical, factual evidence

all I see is, candidly, a load of old codswallop

paraclete  posted on  2019-04-01   2:23:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: Liberator (#46)

Looked at your Earth centric model

raises some questions, like how come there are seasons, how come I can see these stars in the southern sky, how come there is six months dark at the north pole, where is Pluto, where is Alpha Centarii and the rest of the universe, why is there ice at the north pole

Honestly

paraclete  posted on  2019-04-01   2:29:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: Liberator (#53)

is THE ONE that happens to be the trigger that makes people "kooks."

Well yeah of course.

It is like arguing that birds don't chirp.

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-04-01   7:44:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: paraclete (#57)

Honestly

Honestly I don't see why anyone would debate this silly idea.

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-04-01   7:44:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: Deckard (#51)

Pure Tavistock/CIA Psy-Ops.

With you everything is a Psy Op. Well almost everything.

A K A Stone  posted on  2019-04-01   7:45:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: paraclete (#56)

2. Please provide rational, logical, factual evidence...

...all I see is, candidly, a load of old codswallop

I can provide "rational, logical, factual evidence" -- however, if you choose to remind blind, dismissive, willfully ignorant or purposely avoid it, I can' help you.

New information by definition MUST be examined in order to assess. I reject and invalidate your back-turned sweeping wave of the hand.

You may now return to your usual PTB-tuned frequency, Kenneth.

Liberator  posted on  2019-04-01   13:34:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: A K A Stone (#59)

Honestly I don't see why anyone would debate this silly idea.

You can't actually "debate" something you refuse to explore.

All you can do is research it, IF the subject interest you.

Like an infant, new information must be ingested a bit at a time. Infant aren't fed steak.

Now if you are uninterested, or unable to even consider what is obviously totally fresh info, I still understand.

Liberator  posted on  2019-04-01   13:38:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: Liberator, yukon (#62)

Where is YUKON when he is immediately required for his LOLAY?

buckeroo  posted on  2019-04-05   21:31:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: Liberator, Pinguinite, A K A Stone (#53)

A flat earth, and other nonsense (Debunking ideas that would not exist were it not for the Internet)

Does the Bible teach a flat earth?

Some people believe in the flat earth because they have been convinced that the Bible teaches it. So they believe that by denying the FE, people are denying God’s word. IF the Bible taught the earth is flat, their argument would be sound. But the Bible does no such thing, so appealing to biblical inerrancy for non-existent flat-earth proof texts makes no sense. This is the classic fallacy of begging the question, or assuming the conclusion in the premises. As the list below shows, the Bible does not teach a flat earth!

Yet they are afraid of their opponents using a valid form of argument called denying the consequent: if God’s Word teaches a flat earth, and if the earth is not flat [denying the consequent], then God's word is not true.

But since the earth is not actually flat, and since the Bible does not teach that it is flat, they fall into a trap of their own making and must hold onto an illogical and untenable position despite all the evidence to the contrary.

Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

It perplexes us to see that belief in a “flat earth” is gaining traction, despite being thoroughly debunked for thousands of years. This idea was almost non-existent until recently, yet this particular branch of pseudoscience is making inroads. It’s notable that the article The Flat Earth Myth, busting the myth that the church taught a flat earth, written as recently as 2013, did not receive any negative comments from flat-earth believers. Why?

Because there were hardly any people back then who believed it! Rather, readers were grateful to see that the church had never taught this nonsense. Several honest atheists have even slammed people from their own side who have pushed a bad pseudo-history that accuses the church of teaching a flat earth.1

Is the Earth Flat?

So how did people in the ancient world know that the earth is spherical? The earliest recorded discussion of a spherical earth is from Pythagoras in the sixth century BC. Pythagoras correctly understood that the cause of lunar eclipses is the shadow of the earth falling on the moon. This can happen only when the moon is opposite the sun in our sky, which coincides with full moon. The earth’s shadow is larger than the moon, so we cannot see the entire shadow at once.

However, during a lunar eclipse we see the earth’s shadow creep across the moon. Because the edge of the earth’s shadow always is a portion of a circle, the earth’s shadow must be a circle. If the earth were flat and round, similar to a disk, it could cast a circular shadow, but only for lunar eclipses that occur at midnight.

For a lunar eclipse at sunrise or sunset, the earth’s shadow would be an ellipse, a line, or a rectangle, depending upon how thick the disk was compared to its diameter.

However, the earth’s shadow during a lunar eclipse is always a circle, regardless of the time of night when the eclipse occurs.

The only shape that consistently has a circular shadow, regardless of its orientation, is a sphere.

Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen.
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.

Deckard  posted on  2019-04-05   23:03:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: buckeroo (#63)

Where is YUKON when he is immediately required for his LOLAY?

Where is usually STILL is: Living in your head, 24/7.

Liberator  posted on  2019-04-06   11:30:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: Deckard, A K A Stone, Pinguinite (#64)

Does the Bible teach a flat earth?

No. More than that, this is NEVER BEEN CLAIMED. Author non-sequitur.

The only shape that consistently has a circular shadow, regardless of its orientation, is a sphere.

"The only"?? Nope. But admittedly, the model can certainly demonstrate "evidence" of its appearance. Curiously, "Evidence is not necessarily "Proof."

As to lunar and solar paths, I have already submitted videos that help explain the FE model theory as well as the Geocentric theory (and btw, the Heliocentric model is also just...technically THEORY.) If I have the time and my GAS quotient isn't spent, I'll try and locate them in hour-plus videos. Ping, I've promised you some content; I didn't forget....

As to the claim made by this Creation.com author: "A flat earth, and other nonsense (Debunking ideas that would not exist were it not for the Internet")...Well, that just goes to prove that certain theories to not make for monolith of thought and belief. Dude's comment reveals the mind of someone who may not understand Genesis; may not take it literally. The comment also reveals a mind who many not be capable of a paradigm beyond dogma, beyond lifetime of repetition, imprinting, and programming. In his defense, 95% are of the same mind-set.

Even Christians are not immune to buying into ALL Dogma trumping ALL Else, categorizing ALL theories beyond any PTB established narrative at "CT."

As you and many of us know, many many "Conspiracy Theories" and authors' respective work has been flushed down memory hole. Now? Regular being purged and censored...this is conspicuous as the interweb and YouTube channels are being flooded with content that targets and refutes Flat Earth theory to counter the momentum of it. Makes NO sense. Red Flag right there. UNLESS.

ALL the popular "CTs" eventually get flushed. Just try and find 911 and especially the "Vegas" turkey shoot OR "Pizzagate." Did you know content Creators GET FLAGGED at YouTube for their respective mention? WHY?? What is being hidden?

Anyway...

If NOT for the "Internet," the knowledge Gate-Keepers and Powers That Be (RCC, Smithsonian, Gummint, Atheist-Science PTB, "Secret Societies," Elites etal) would STILL be controlling and restricting knowledge and history that had previously been held privy to The Precious Few.

FOR INSTANCE, if not for the pesky internet research and disseminating truth-seeking:

NASA Admits: Erased Moon Landing Tapes:

OBVIOUS QUESTIONS REMAIN:

If Flat Earth theory indeed is so patently absurd, so ridiculous, so subject to ridicule...

...then why is so much internet content dedicated solely to mentioning it?

This while at the very same time anti-Flat Earth info and videos dominate search engine results? WHY are opponents' content so ferociously devoted to disproving Flat Earth (as at the same time FE content is removed and censored, leaving the few, and of course, dopey content?)

Seems to me any info or video that is this ridiculous and "stupid" wouldn't find an audience that IS SILL GROWING.

Apparently this audience finds the establishment/PTB's anti-FE crusade a bit too suspicious. This same audience recognizes the PTB and "Science" establishment to be chronic liars who declaring unproven theories like "Evolution," "Global Warming," and NASA "missions" and "Moon Landings" TO BE FACT. As well as empirical "Science."

(Btw, the "Moon Rock" given to Holland by Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin is... FAKE. It's petrified wood. But move along -- nothing to see here either.)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/space/6105902/Moon-rock-given-to-Holland-by-Neil-Armstrong-and-Buzz-Aldrin-is-fake.html

At the same time people are awakening to the possibility for the case for FE THEORY -- various evidence, info, science and scientific theory, observation, innate sensory (hetorically speaking, WHY is our innate, internal sense of reality discarded, btw?)

I have no problem that a website like 'Creation.com' or any body else believing what they believe. Not many are willing to go above and beyond to connect dots and acknowledge observable phenomena beyond Gate-Keepers paradigm.

The horizon is FLAT; Earth is NOT moving, but stationary. I accept the theory of the Geocentric Model that the sun and moon revolve around Earth. Stars positioning doesn't move -- no matter the season. Clouds are NOT swirling or glued to the earth as it allegedly spins at 1000 MPH -- whether from 1000', 120,000 ', OR, via Satellite photos (which are taken very close in to earth because it can NOT orbit very far out.)

Deckard: Speaking of search engines limiting content, as a FYI aside I tried a search on Dr. Michael Heisler; Results: BURIED. Content from Steve Quayle, Timothy Alberino, Tom Horn are found but results are more limited than they should.

Liberator  posted on  2019-04-06   13:08:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: Liberator (#66)

Speaking of search engines limiting content, as a FYI aside I tried a search on Dr. Michael Heisler; Results: BURIED.

I found plenty of info using Duck Duck Go.

Is this the Dr. Michael Heisler you are referring to?

Christians Who Believe the Earth is Really Flat — Does It Get Any Dumber Than This?

Government is in the last resort the employment of armed men, of policemen, gendarmes, soldiers, prison guards, and hangmen.
The essential feature of government is the enforcement of its decrees by beating, killing, and imprisoning.
Those who are asking for more government interference are asking ultimately for more compulsion and less freedom.

Deckard  posted on  2019-04-06   14:01:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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