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Bible Study
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Title: WEBSITE CLAIM:Bible Proof of the Flat Earth Truth
Source: CELEBRATE TRUTH
URL Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cApXPTrOf7A
Published: Sep 10, 2015
Author: CELBRATE TRUTH
Post Date: 2019-03-28 11:46:23 by Liberator
Keywords: NASA, HOAX, BIBLE-TRUTH
Views: 2745
Comments: 67

Genesis 1:7,8 King James Version (KJV)

7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.


Poster Comment: YES, I AM GOING THERE

Yes, your immediate and natural visceral reaction will be to fully dismiss "Flat Earth" and this video. (it's relatively short: 15 minutes.) Can such a case be made in just 15 minutes? Maybe. Maybe not. But it might light a fuse.

Q: What do the PTB fear most from the people? A: KNOWLEDGE

That's why they've flooded the culture in "Entertainment" and made us obsessed with Movies, TV, Sports, etc. ANYTHING to distract us from actually knowledge and critical thinking

I admittedly have initially fully dismissed "Flat Earth" as a "Conspiracy Theory" designed to make ALL "Truthers" look foolish

But something happened..

I began noticing MSM, Neil De Grasse, Bill the Science Guy, Discovery Channel, History Channel, YouTube sources ALL discussing the subject. But in panic mode. They were actually going way out of their way to disprove Flat Earth and ridicule it. If it's so absurd, why bother wasting their time

That only made me need to take a closer look at the theory. Once the PTB makes a subject VERBOTEN, one must believe, "Where there's smoke, there's fire."

Then I noticed ridicule and heavy criticism of NBA player Kyrie Irving for his public belief in Flat Earth; Same of Steph Curry for his unbelief of the Moon Landings. (BOTH were forced to apologize.

Hmmm..

That was a Red Flag

If "Flat Earth" is so absurd to begin with, again -- why chastise Curry and Irving spend ANY time and programming to refute others theory and content, and ridicule it? (Is it because they could possibly influence young fans to explore the truth of both matters?

Did you know access to the Antarctica is strictly verboten (other than as brief organized tours? 5,400,000 square miles of earth is completely OFF LIMITS (except to military and "Scientists.") Have you even ever questioned it

You will need to further research the the subject independently. The PTB is currently still in a panic mode; YouTube is busy scrubbing and taking down Flat Earth vids but they keep on popping back up

You will obviously cite a lifetime of staring at globes, "photos from space," the 1960s-70s "Moon Landings," "science," books, space exploration, pictures, movies, Star Trek, history, NASA, "established astronomy"; CONSTANT repetition, imprinting, and conditioning

This is the very same PTB that established "Evolution" as "Settled Science."

This is the very PTB that now say "we lost the technology to get to the moon."

NASA is a complete fraud. They have routinely relied on "Artist Rendering," Photoshop, and CGI for their depictions

(Btw, Where are the Hubble Telescope photos OF EARTH? Or, MOON?

The truth hurts. No one want their reality and belief system turned upside down, so we accept what we're told

We have been lied to. Repeatedly

A Flat Earth requires you to revamp your entire hardwired precepts of this world and literally changes EVERYTHING. Including (especially) about God, Creationism, validation of Genesis, AND our very Physical Realm. As I have, you will have to explore the subject and argument for yourself. Flat Earth theory and explanations ARE convincing. But it will take time to wrap around your head

AN ASIDE:

On what other subjects is discussion, opinion and challenges verboten online or shouted down in public by The Establishment

1) Islam
2) LGBTQ
3) Chemtrails
4) 911
5) Moon Landings
6) 0bama's BC and his entire history
7) Dinosaur Age
8) Evolution
9) Russia Collusion (Wait; Mark that off the list)
10) Age of Earth/Universe (1 image)

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 26.

#6. To: Liberator (#0) (Edited)

Oh, please. Not you!!!

Why do all these science talking heads waste time talking about flat earth? (Not that I know that they are, mind you).

It's because in the info age, digital entertainment is dirt cheap. Also, the planets just don't go around the sun fast enough to require daily updates on their positions, so what else is there in astrophysics to talk about on a daily basis?

As for me, I know that when I hook up a TV to a satellite dish pointed into the heavens, I get a TV signals. While I can't personally vouch for the Apollo missions and other historical claims, I can personally vouch for that one!

And if you want to talk about the PTB's wanting to screw with the population, don't rule out the possibility that they might be the ones that started the flat earth nonsense in the first place!

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-03-28   16:10:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Pinguinite (#6) (Edited)

Oh, please. Not you!!!

I get it.

As I admitted, it wasn't long ago when I'd thought exactly the same way about Flat Earth as others. Desperate "Kooks!" I was as skeptical as anyone.

I never gave Flat Earth ANY thought. UNTIL...I noticed the PTB began to go on the offensive as though they were fighting a real ideological war. And that's THE only reason I even looked into Flat Earth.

Whenever these people, these Liars, fight that hard AGAINST something, I know there's something to it. The more I investigated, the more the weight of proof shifted. Dramatically. Mind-blowingly. And it does tie-in with the Phantom "Space" program (which I've doubted for a while in any case.)

It's because in the info age, digital entertainment is dirt cheap.

Digital info, yes; digital knowledge, no.

As for me, I know that when I hook up a TV to a satellite dish pointed into the heavens, I get a TV signals. While I can't personally vouch for the Apollo missions and other historical claims, I can personally vouch for that one!

The Apollo Missions?? Better re-load and re-examine them.

Your dish is pointed somewhere toward the sky, yes. Could even be pointed more parallel. There are people who do address and explain "satellite" dishes and the dynamics of accessing it's "signals." I found the explanations more than adequate. Though I understand you likely aren't interested enough in the subject to further investigate the hows and whys.

if you want to talk about the PTB's wanting to screw with the population, don't rule out the possibility that they might be the ones that started the flat earth nonsense in the first place!

Funny you should mention that; That happened to be my default position even as of a couple months ago. I considered it a reverse "CT" to make ALL "Truthers" of ALL "CTs" look kooky.

Turns out the PTB are freaking out, and battling hard against Flat Earth, trying like mad to discredit it. If it's that absurd it should just be ignored.

Again, I don't expect you or anyone else to accept this by my word. No one changes their entire world-view overnight. We aren't wired that way. I took me a while to thoroughly investigate the case.

But I promise you this: IF you are patient and listen to the presentations and evidence cited by some Flat-Earth proponents, don't be surprised if you start nodding more and more. This subject by necessity is very well-thought out and points of contention fully addressed.

Liberator  posted on  2019-03-28   16:45:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Liberator (#9)

You are right it's likely pointless to actually debate it, and I'm too busy these days and probably shouldn't even be taking the time to say what I've already said.

But I do respect you from our prior patient discussions and I do think we communicate well. And my respect for you person doesn't change given your posting on flat earth, even though I don't respect your conclusion.

I have listened patiently to the arguments that the moon landings were faked, and have concluded that all of them are flawed in one way or another.

I've listened to a few videos arguing the earth is flat. One illustrated the solar system using coins to a table, and at the conclusion, he argued that it wouldn't be possible to see the same stars 6 months apart because the earth would be on the opposite side of the sun -- either intentionally or ignorantly ignoring the limits of his 2D solar system map to illustrate a 3D universe where stars in the northern hemisphere would always be visible.

Another one argued about the south pole and erroneously implied that the earths magnetic poles are in line with the geographic poles, which is also not true.

So no, if I'm going to take seriously a flat earth argument, it must be one made by people that understand the ramifications of our living in a 3D, not 2D universe, and must have a correct factual understanding of things like the locations of the magnetic poles.

As for the PTB's wanting to push a false narrative, it's very easy for someone who is cognizant of covert PTB's that run the world to believe that everything is a conspiracy, but I maintain that anyone who is ready to believe anything attributed to the work of these PTB's is perhaps more beyond hope than those who don't believe any of it and always accept the official word about all world events and news.

But stepping back a bit, Liberator, one thing I have come to appreciate is the overwhelming capacity of the human mind to believe things that are not true, particularly when it comes to religious issues. A case in point is our difference where I subscribe to the Newton model of life and you subscribe to the traditional, Biblical Christian model. I could ask, if you do believe the PTB's could have created all these false narratives, then couldn't Christianity itself be a false narrative dating back thousands of years?

I'll consider that a rhetorical question to ponder.

But consider that the vast majority of children adopt the religious beliefs of their parents. It's the reason why there are "Muslim Countries". It's obviously not a case where adults commonly reconsider all they've been taught as children and are open to completely revising their beliefs because they have new info. That rarely happens. People, in general, believe what they were taught as children and never ever ever change from that. It's the reason why religious beliefs are not homogeneous throughout the world, and that instead, the Middle east is full of Muslims and Europe is full of Christians. I would argue this is a defect is the human psyche.

That you have apparently been open minded enough to consider earth flatness is a compliment to your open mindedness, and I say that even though I dismiss your current revised opinion on the matter.

But perhaps you would agree with me on this statement: We humans have an overwhelming capacity to believe things that are not true.

I would even dare say that while Christian preachers often lament the lack of faith in society, that the truth is that the problem is not a lack of faith, it's an EXCESS of faith. People are just so damn convinced they are right when they are not. We see it not just in religious matters but in politics and many other spheres too which we see in abundance right here on LF. And if there's one thing that keeps me humble about my confidence in the work of Dr Michael Newton, it's that I am not immune myself to believing false narratives.

I remember once in our discussions you stating you were 100% convinced about Jesus and the Bible as God's Word. And I just shook my head at those words and, well, being honest, I have long ago conceded that the day someone is 100% convinced of anything is the day that person should start being concerned about the accuracy of their world view.

We should be open minded and I tip my hat that you have been open minded on the would being flat. But even so, we have to weigh the evidence fairly. And if I disagree with you on the earth being flat, I'll certainly find it easier to dismiss your objections to the Newton model of life.

Good luck to you. As much as that word applies in this case.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-03-28   17:45:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Pinguinite (#10)

I appreciate and respect that you have at least stuck a big toe into exploring Flat Earth research. Navigating through the muck is tricky. I also appreciate your kind words.

There are admittedly a lot of sources to consider. But one other thing to consider which I'd discovered; MOST "Flat Earth" videos and articles are framed to COUNTER Flat Earth and provide controlled-Opposition arguments.

If you are interested in seeing/hearing the sources and explanations that counter your above arguments, please PM. If not, no worries. I realize you are busy, and in the grand scheme of things, this issue isn't pressing.

As for the PTB's wanting to push a false narrative, it's very easy for someone who is cognizant of covert PTB's that run the world to believe that everything is a conspiracy, but I maintain that anyone who is ready to believe anything attributed to the work of these PTB's is perhaps more beyond hope than those who don't believe any of it and always accept the official word about all world events and news.

As with most "systems", there must be a working model where dynamics work logically, rationally, with reason, and truthfully presented.

The best way I can summarize what's going on these days:

The best propaganda is said to blend truth with fiction. The PTB long ago set up a baseline of truth and fact. In my opinion as well as many others, as they began controlling more facets of society and public opinion, what began as a slow boil of the frog, increased.

We may be at a point in society, in civilization were never have the PTB lied to the extent they have while overtly pushing a very specific agenda. If this thesis is accepted, then ALL institutions by default MUST promote and advance this agenda -- regardless of truth.

But stepping back a bit, Liberator, one thing I have come to appreciate is the overwhelming capacity of the human mind to believe things that are not true, particularly when it comes to religious issues. A case in point is our difference where I subscribe to the Newton model of life and you subscribe to the traditional, Biblical Christian model. I could ask, if you do believe the PTB's could have created all these false narratives, then couldn't Christianity itself be a false narrative dating back thousands of years?

I'll consider that a rhetorical question to ponder. That's actually a very good question. And why I always consider our exchanges thought-provoking and fascinating.

In brief: Not even the PTB can control the Sovereignty and Truth of The Almighty.

But consider that the vast majority of children adopt the religious beliefs of their parents. It's the reason why there are "Muslim Countries". It's obviously not a case where adults commonly reconsider all they've been taught as children and are open to completely revising their beliefs because they have new info. That rarely happens. People, in general, believe what they were taught as children and never ever ever change from that. It's the reason why religious beliefs are not homogeneous throughout the world, and that instead, the Middle east is full of Muslims and Europe is full of Christians. I would argue this is a defect is the human psyche.

Hmmm...

Yes, I agree.

"Human psyche...or defect and/OR corruption of the human spirit and heart?

That you have apparently been open minded enough to consider earth flatness is a compliment to your open mindedness, and I say that even though I dismiss your current revised opinion on the matter.

But perhaps you would agree with me on this statement: We humans have an overwhelming capacity to believe things that are not true.

Believe me -- my "open mindedness" of merely considering the validity of Flat Earth has completely caught me by surprise. But then again, if my quest in life is about the Truth, then I can't be selective, can I? With respect to your dismissal of it, again, its understandable.

With respect to your statement -- yes, I agree 100%; man is absolutely prone to major manipulation and deception. That's why mankind is mired in mass confusion and strife, isn't it?

I would even dare say that while Christian preachers often lament the lack of faith in society, that the truth is that the problem is not a lack of faith, it's an EXCESS of faith. People are just so damn convinced they are right when they are not. We see it not just in religious matters but in politics and many other spheres too which we see in abundance right here on LF. And if there's one thing that keeps me humble about my confidence in the work of Dr Michael Newton, it's that I am not immune myself to believing false narratives.

Interesting observation and thesis.

To much extent, I obviously agree with you. All matters of Dogma are difficult to break free from -- especially if they are harmful.

"Faith" is one of those words or concepts that could have wide-ranging definitions and connotations. There is "Faith in the Gospel," "Faith in the Space Program," "Faith in the Republican Party," "Faith in Law Enforcement". We have seen ALL defended excessively as you allude to...to the hilt at forums just like this.

The only "Faith" worthy (for me) would be faith in anything, anyone OTHER than man. That obviously mean Faith in God, in His word. All others are proven infallible.

Regarding your comment about Dr. Newton, humility and false narratives, I have read it a few times; there are a couple different perspectives I was processing from your gist. But yes -- we are certainly prone to digesting false narratives, aren't we? Whether in moments of weakness, lacking enough information, and personal bias and belief systems to begin with.

I remember once in our discussions you stating you were 100% convinced about Jesus and the Bible as God's Word. And I just shook my head at those words and, well, being honest, I have long ago conceded that the day someone is 100% convinced of anything is the day that person should start being concerned about the accuracy of their world view.

*chuckling*

Well Ping, I would agree with you on part of your cynicism of being all-in and trusting Man 100%.

That said, if anything, I can now report and assure you that never have I been more certain of the Bible as the inspired Word of God and Jesus Christ as Savior. The Almighty and His authority obviously lie OUTSIDE of mankind's realm, and man's laws.

Rhetorically speaking, for a true Christian Believer, how can faith in the Gospel and the Truth be comprised? When Jesus said, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me,” (John 14:6) he gave no wiggle room for 98% or 99% faith.

Reinforcing some of your thesis and thoughts, I find the following historical significance interesting and Game-Changer (not in a good way)...

ONE of the major stumbling blocks for sabotaging belief in and account of the Bible just happen to be right out of the box in Genesis and its account of Creation, Adam and Eve. Coincidentally, 99% of all Christians believed Genesis. That is UNTIL Darwin's Theory of Evolution was heavily promoted by "Science" and the Academe as the PTB went on to use and advance it to undermine credibility of the Bible till this day. Ironically, "Evolutionism" has itself evolved into as much a "Religion" as any, defended in many cases as fervently as Muslims defend Islam. So there's that.

We should be open minded and I tip my hat that you have been open minded on the would being flat. But even so, we have to weigh the evidence fairly.

Again, I do appreciate your acknowledgment of at least exploring evidence beyond our contemporary, social constructs of institutional (PTB) dogma. Sometimes the Emperor IS naked. Sometimes quite often as it turns out these days. The vast majority of people have always found it much easier not to rock the boat.

And if I disagree with you on the earth being flat, I'll certainly find it easier to dismiss your objections to the Newton model of life.

Fair enough. I understand the rationale and expect you as well as 95% of everyone to be dismissive of Flat Earth. There's actually a lot at stake psychologically. I don't expect more than 5% to navigate and find the truth beyond controlled-op and disinfo sites. However to be clear, I have investigated and vetted Newton and his research and theories quite a bit -- far more than you might realize.

Liberator  posted on  2019-03-29   12:58:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 26.

#34. To: Liberator (#26)

I don't have the time or patience to actually hear the case advocating a flat earth. The USSC only hears about 1% of the cases brought to it. It's that low simply because of limited resouces, and my time is similarly limited. The only way I'd make time for it is if there was some significant piece of evidence that could not be explained by currently accepted astrophysics, and I'm unaware of any such evidence. An example would be the sun setting at the same time on the US east coast as the US west coast. To the best of my knowledge, no one has ever suggested that it does. Do you?

I have a contact in India I've been working with. If the earth is flat, then him starting his daily routine at around 11 PM is very, very odd!

As I see it, occam's razor philosophy is properly applied. The simplest explanation is the likely correct one. Just because someone *can* come up with alternate explanations for a situation does not mean it should supplant another simpler explanation, and a spherical earth is FAR FAR FAR more simple an explanation than all one would need to come up with to explain our observations with a flat earth.

In discerning truth, whether about our universe or about God, it seems to me we have no choice but to rely on our limited minds to reach those conclusions. And my limited mind finds it quite unjust that an Almighty God would allow the fate of my eternal soul hang on the conclusions of my limited mind. Does it even make sense that God would make our eternal destiny contingent upon the academic conclusions of a human mind so very prone to trickery and delusion?

How many parents would approve of seeing their kids put to death if they scored poorly in math? Hardly any, of course. And yet, you would have everyone believe that God would do the same for His children who score poorly in theology? Seriously? That is what it comes down to, isn't it? You must score sufficiently well in theology -- and yet even you must admit that a perfect score is not required -- to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. You must believe Jesus is the Son of God, and yet, it's okay if you don't spell his name correctly because English didn't exist 2000 years ago. You also don't need to pronounce his name right -- I hope -- as the name Jesus is pronounced quite differently in various languages. You also don't have to know what he looked like physically -- also a good thing as there are no photographs telling us that -- unless the Shroud of Turin is authentic, but even then, the Bible does not require the viewing of the Shroud to be saved.

When was he born? Well, we're not totally sure of that either. 4 BC? Maybe. Did it really happen on the winter solstice which is about the time we celebrate Christmas? Ultimately we don't know that either. So how much do we really know about this man we today call Jesus? Apparently, not very much BUT... it's okay somehow for us to misspell & mispronounce his name and have a completely different face in our minds when we ask him into our hearts because, well, apparently God does afford us some leeway in judging our theology.

And I guess for me that's the Achilles heel of any religion that declares it's theology a requirement for salvation. Why would God afford us only some leeway in errant theology and not full leeway? Or going farther, why would God even care if our honest understanding was completely wrong? Why wouldn't God care more about the choices we make in life. Our choices to love or hate, our choices to help others or be selfish rather than our academic understanding of the spiritual realm? Just as you and I, Liberator, can get along just perfectly even though our beliefs about the earth being round or flat is is completely incompatible, why is it that somehow, my not understanding theology correctly would put me at odds with the Almighty to the point where my eternal soul is in danger? As though God will hold my academic understanding against me? Is God even more petty about academic understanding that you and I are? Is that the message you would advocate here about the Almighty?

I sure don't. And that is just one of the many aspects of Michael Newton's findings that for me rings true. In the Newton model, God doesn't care one whit what our academic beliefs are. Rather, he cares about the decisions we make *given* what we believe. Are we embellishing our virtues? Are we quashing our vices? Are we loving others?

I am impressed if you have researched Newton's book, perhaps reading it entirely, if that's what you mean. If so, you are the first person I know of who has done so due to bantering of the subject with me. And I guess, just as a round earth explains the physical observations far more simply than does a flat earth does, the Michael Newton model explains God much better than Christianity does. For me at least, which is why I ultimately have to go with the Newton model. And why wouldn't I, when this model shows God to be more patient, more majestic, more loving and less petty than Christianity does? (Or is it possible that my expectations of God's greatness are..... overblown and exaggerated? If so, I expect we are all doomed anyway! haha)

Anyway, duty calls. I might be up for discussing single arguments related to earth flatness or moon landings on occasion, but I can't justify dedicating the equivalent of a college course of time and effort into hearing the whole case.

Best to ya, Liberator.

Pinguinite  posted on  2019-03-29 23:59:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 26.

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