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Title: What the heck happened to Germany’s military?
Source: HotAir
URL Source: https://hotair.com/archives/2018/02 ... ck-happened-germanys-military/
Published: Feb 27, 2018
Author: Jazz Shaw
Post Date: 2018-02-27 18:24:25 by Tooconservative
Keywords: None
Views: 8865
Comments: 114

One of the more controversial platform items in Donald Trump’s foreign policy stance on the campaign trail had been an insistence that our Europen allies start investing more in their own military forces and carrying a bit more of the defense load. One country in particular was called out on this and that was Germany. Many in the media scoffed at the idea and even termed it insulting to our German allies.

But how real was the need for improvement? Recently it’s been revealed that Germany’s military isn’t just behind the curve on investment and improvements. It’s practically dysfunctional. German Newspaper Die Welt reported on the dismal state of the Bundeswehr (the unified armed forces of Germany and their civil administration) last week and the numbers are staggering. (Translated from German – may be imprecise.)
Thus, the total stock of Leopard 2 main battle tanks is 244th In 2017, an average of 176 were available, the remainder was in the repair or was stored in depots. Of these 176 tanks, 105 were actually ready for use, which makes a quota of on average 60 percent – and yet nothing is said about the extent to which maintenance and spare parts supply are actually sustainable…

In the Panzerhaubitze 2000 it is already close again: In the inventory of the Bundeswehr, there is this artillery gun 121 times. But only 75 are available, 42 operational (56 percent).

Even more dramatic looks at the army aviators. The total stock of the NH90 transport helicopter is 58. In 2017, 37 of these were available on average, while only 13 were available (35 percent). Four of them are in action in Mali – which incidentally means that hardly any staff is available for training at home. Failure to withdraw the NH90 from Mali in the middle of the year will stall the ability for years to come.

So the Germans have 95 operable tanks at any given time and less than 200 working Armored Personnel Carriers. Their Air Force is in serious trouble. They have roughly forty operable fighter jets, a good portion of which are already committed to operations around Turkey and Syria.

And then there’s the Navy. Shall we talk about the German submarine force? It’s going to be a short discussion. Coming into this winter they had one (!) operable submarine. Sadly, that one grounded on the rocks a few months ago so their total fleet of subs currently stands at… zero.

How did things get to this point? A recent interview with the German Defense Minister included some choice quotes. One of them was the explanation that Germany hasn’t paid as much attention to the military because “we are surrounded by friends.” The alternate and somewhat more dismal explanation is, “because we just don’t care.”

Germany’s Parliamentary Armed Forces Commissioner, Hans-Peter Bartels, gave a blistering interview to DW this month, citing numerous shortcomings, and they go beyond a lack of heavy machinery. He said that the Army lacked sufficient protective vests, winter clothing and tents to be able to take part in a major NATO training mission. The soldiers are “under stress” and lacking discipline or leadership in too many cases because the German Army has 21,000 vacant officer posts.

So will that be changing? Hey… Germany has politics just like we do. Spending two percent of their GDP on the military is a big ask and will require a lot of votes. Don’t hold your breath. And in the meantime, if something serious flares up in that region you may be waiting a while for the German cavalry to arrive.


Poster Comment:

All of the NATO forces have declined severely. Britain and Germany were two key allies who greatly shrunk their military. And America under 0bama neglected the military badly in fundamental ways. The military was hollowed out.

Trump was right to lower the boom on Germany's Merkel. Despite her backtalk, she's left the German military in a shambles.

America really has no western European allies to speak of.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 70.

#29. To: Tooconservative, no gnu taxes, VxH, Vicomte13, sneakypete, Deckard (#0)

But how real was the need for improvement? Recently it’s been revealed that Germany’s military isn’t just behind the curve on investment and improvements. It’s practically dysfunctional.

HELL NO !!!!!

Germans had great military in WWII. Who are the psychos that want to rebuild it? The same ones who talk about "Polish concentration camps"?

A Pole  posted on  2018-03-01   1:45:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: A Pole (#29)

Germans had great military in WWII. Who are the psychos that want to rebuild it? The same ones who talk about "Polish concentration camps"?

But...but...What about the Communists Soviet Gulags and their own Death Camps?? Were they Holiday Inns??

Liberator  posted on  2018-03-01   8:49:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Liberator (#30)

But...but...What about the Communists Soviet Gulags and their own Death Camps?? Were they Holiday Inns??

No, they weren't nice places. But the fundamental difference between Nazi Germany and the USSR is that Nazi Germany attacked the West and Soviet Russia stuck to itself until Germany attacked it, then the USSR and the West both fought Germany and Japan to bring them down. Then they stopped fighting.

The difference between war and cold war is the difference between lightning and the lightning bug.

Stalin killed a lot of his own people. Hitler burnt down London. Huge difference.

We and the Soviets manage to sit next to each other with nuclear weapons for 42 years without going to war. It's not really possible to imagine the same scenario sitting next to Hitler.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-03-01   8:58:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Vicomte13 (#33)

No, they weren't nice places. But the fundamental difference between Nazi Germany and the USSR is that Nazi Germany attacked the West and Soviet Russia stuck to itself until Germany attacked it

Have you tried to explain that to the Finns,the Ukrainians,the Balts, and the Poles?

sneakypete  posted on  2018-03-01   10:25:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: sneakypete (#37)

Have you tried to explain that to the Finns,the Ukrainians,the Balts, and the Poles?

That's not the West.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-03-01   13:44:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: Vicomte13 (#40)

Have you tried to explain that to the Finns,the Ukrainians,the Balts, and the Poles?

That's not the West.

In that case I guess they don't count,huh?

BTW,they are to the west of people to their east.

sneakypete  posted on  2018-03-01   20:03:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: sneakypete (#45) (Edited)

In that case I guess they don't count,huh?

They didn't count enough to us for America to get involved in a war for their defense. Nor did England, France, Norway, Denmark, Holland, Belgium, Luxembourg, Greece, Austria, Czechoslovakia, Greece or any of the other places that Germany invaded from 1938-1942.

Nor did they count after Pearl Harbor. The Japanese attacked us on December 7, 1941. We declared war on Japan on December 8, the next day. We didn't declare war on Germany even after Pearl Harbor. Hitler declared war on us, three days later, and commenced torpedoing our ships up and down the coast. THEN we came into the European war - once we were dragged into it by the Germans.

So you are correct - all of those people don't count - to Americans. Even after Pearl Harbor Europe didn't count enough for us to declare war on the Third Reich. We were dragged into that war by the Germans. If they never declared war on us, we would have crushed Japan in a couple of years and left Europe to its fate.

You can't have it both ways (though you can try). Being sanctimonious about the invasion of nations in the East by Russia, as though THAT deserves a maximal American effort to stop, when America did not of its own volition do anything to stop Germany overrunning the ENTIRETY of Europe. We NEVER decided to go help Europe. The Germans dragged us into the war and we had to fight. We were not the good guys riding to the aid of the beleaguered West and East. We were the last guy on the block who hadn't been beaten up by the Nazis, they attacked us, and we won. It's good for everybody that we did, but we most certainly did not do it to protect the rights of ANY of the countries in Europe that were overrun and attacked. We only did it because Hitler declared war and the Germans started torpedoing our ships right off our coast. We stopped that and crushed Germany, and in the process of crushing Germany we ended up liberating part of Europe. We didn't go over there because the Germans attacked their neighbors, though. So your initial proposition is correct: nobody in Europe counted to us. It was not our affair.

It SHOULD have been our affair, when Germany overran Denmark, Holland, Belgium, Luxembourg and France, and then firebombed London. That SHOULD have been the signal for us to get off our asses like the Canadians did.

But it wasn't. We didn't care about East OR West. They didn't count to us. We entered the European war only because we ourselves were attacked.

Why, then, suddenly care about the Baltic States? Because we WANT a war with Russia, for some reason? Why Russia and not Nazi Germany? Doesn't make sense.

Or rather, it DOES make sense: having won an empire and become hegemon of half the world, some -such as Patton - wanted to extend our conquests and conquer the whole thing. But to declare war on Russia in 1946 and attack? We would have been no better than Hitler, and we would have had no better luck either, unless we used atomic bombs. On what pretext could we have done that? That Russia was in occupation of the Baltic States? Seriously? We could justify incineration of millions of civilians in Russia because of a sudden burst of self- righteousness over some Eastern European territories that HAD BEEN Russian for hundreds of years, and had only enjoyed a shaky independence for 20 years, between the world wars. THAT would be justification for an American-perpetrated genocide?

No. It would have merely been a pretext. And Americans wanted nothing of it. Patton did, but the nation did not.

Vicomte13  posted on  2018-03-02   7:02:04 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Vicomte13, sneakypete (#48)

Being sanctimonious about the invasion of nations in the East by Russia, as though THAT deserves a maximal American effort to stop, when America did not of its own volition do anything to stop Germany overrunning the ENTIRETY of Europe. We NEVER decided to go help Europe. The Germans dragged us into the war and we had to fight.

I know one thing. I do not want the revival of German army! I do not want any f***ing German troops around !!! To fight on Eastern Front again they would have to go through Poland again.

And if you are so clever, Pete, go preach your doctrine to the Latvians, Western Ukrainians, Croats and Bosnian Muslims. They will love it. I am not sure about Romanians and Hungarians. And please stay away from Greeks and Serbs, for your own good, buddy.

A Pole  posted on  2018-03-02   7:35:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: A Pole (#49)

I know one thing. I do not want the revival of German army! I do not want any f***ing German troops around !!! To fight on Eastern Front again they would have to go through Poland again.

Why fight them,comrade? You know the Poles can't take care of themselves,and need a strong dictator like Stalin to do their thinking for them.

sneakypete  posted on  2018-03-02   9:15:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: sneakypete (#52)

need a strong dictator like Stalin to do their thinking for them.

I have a strong feeling that you would prefer Adolf Hitler. Perhaps he is your hero,Parteigenosse?

A Pole  posted on  2018-03-02   10:41:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: A Pole (#55)

I have a strong feeling that you would prefer Adolf Hitler.

At times, I do wonder if your hero is Joseph Stalin.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2018-03-02   10:55:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: no gnu taxes (#56)

At times, I do wonder if your hero is Joseph Stalin.

You can stop wondering. He is a good little comrade,who dreams of a return to communism for Poland.

sneakypete  posted on  2018-03-02   11:00:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: sneakypete (#58)

I've never been to Poland, but I was under the impression that the vast majority got very sick of Soviets (Russians) during the cold war, and were grateful to the US for helping free themselves of them.

I guess there are still some "old school" types though.

no gnu taxes  posted on  2018-03-02   11:06:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: no gnu taxes (#59)

I've never been to Poland, but I was under the impression that the vast majority got very sick of Soviets (Russians) during the cold war, and were grateful to the US for helping free themselves of them.

I guess there are still some "old school" types though.

I met some Poles who were in the US Army 10th SFG at Bad Tolz in the early 60's who were TDY to Bragg for special training,and to say their hatred for communists and communism was intense was an understatement.

APole was probably a member of a family that was an apparatchik. Maybe his parents were professors or minor functionaries,and because of that they had special privileges including access to special stores the typical Pole didn't have. That sort of thing makes their children grow up to believe that communism works because they see their parents and themselves getting special treatment. It never once occurs to them that is how normal people all over the world live every day.

sneakypete  posted on  2018-03-02   17:18:25 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: sneakypete (#67) (Edited)

Maybe his parents were professors or minor functionaries,and because of that they had special privileges including access to special stores the typical Pole didn't have. That sort of thing makes their children grow up to believe that communism works because they see their parents and themselves getting special treatment.

I heard and read about such stores same way as you did. But I never saw one. And anyone with good grades was able to get to the university. For free.

APole was probably a member of a family that was an apparatchik.

Perhaps your family were German Nazis who hid in America after Ruskies took them to the woodshed. This would explain the chip on your shoulder.

I met some Poles who were in the US Army 10th SFG at Bad Tolz in the early 60's who were TDY to Bragg for special training,and to say their hatred for communists and communism was intense was an understatement.

Special training to do what? I rest my case.

A Pole  posted on  2018-03-02   18:46:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 70.

#73. To: A Pole (#70)

I met some Poles who were in the US Army 10th SFG at Bad Tolz in the early 60's who were TDY to Bragg for special training,and to say their hatred for communists and communism was intense was an understatement.

Special training to do what? I rest my case.

You have no case,but you ARE a head case.

sneakypete  posted on  2018-03-02 21:29:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 70.

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