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Mexican Invasion Title: Europe Is Killing Itself
Suicide by virtue signalling. Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 6. What do progressives do when a program they devise doesn't work at all. Double down and claim its racist who are the problem!! Its work so far so way stop it?
#2. To: Justified (#1) What do progressives do when a program they devise doesn't work at all. Double down and claim its racist who are the problem!! Its work so far so way stop it? They won't stop it. Everybody else has to team up to stop them. So, why don't we team up? The answer is that, besides progressives, "everybody else" is divided into groups that, among them, are groups every bit as offensive as the progressives, or moreso. On the right, for example, libertarian free-marketeers detest pro-lifers as much even more than they do progressives.
#3. To: Vicomte13 (#2) On the right, for example, libertarian free-marketeers detest pro-lifers as much even more than they do progressives. I wouldn't agree to that. The honchos of the Libertarian Party have always been pro-choicers. They had a big setback when Ron Paul was their 1988 pro-life nominee, a legacy that continues to cause them problems. Among the small-L libertarians, my experience indicates that a strong majority of them are pro-lifers. Don't assume there is any majority of pro-lifers among the libertarians overall, even if LP leadership remains pro-abortion (but fairly quiet about it).
#4. To: Tooconservative (#3) Maybe it wasn't a great example. Look at this site. Start lining up the issues and putting people in various boxes, issue by issue. Now think how impossible it would be for us to all cooperate with each other against a common enemy, because we talk of each other as the enemy, even though we probably agree on 75% of everything. What I meant was that we need only look to ourselves to see why a visible enemy like the Democrats advances against us. Many of us simply hate each other. How can anything be built on that? Can't be.
#5. To: Vicomte13 (#4) Now think how impossible it would be for us to all cooperate with each other against a common enemy, because we talk of each other as the enemy, even though we probably agree on 75% of everything. One might almost suspect there are agentes provocateurs but I think that conservatives tend to be more opinionated and sunk into their various FNC and talk radio bubbles. And you have a good smattering of the Jonesy people who follow Alex Jones and even Michael Savage. And no elected pols who really speak well to all those groups, including Trump (despite trying to, even appearing as a guest on Jones' show). OTOH, we don't have a complicit mass media or control of academia or social networks. So we are being swamped by the big battalions of the Left in the war for public opinion.
#6. To: Tooconservative (#5) It's not even that. Look, here's the way it is: the American Right cannot hold permanent institutional power the way the American Left has until it reconciles itself to Catholics. We are not going to stand in ranks with people with whom we agree politically on important things when you call us Satanists and evil and other jejeune, ignorant crap when we talk to you in private. You don't find us going on crusade against your religions. We did once. In Europe. 500 years ago. At the same time that your brutal and satanic ancestors were burning people at the stake as witches. There was evil on all sides. That was then. This is now. You are not them, and we are not them. We are us now, Americans. We believe our religion is true, every bit as much as you do. And we are the pivot population - the ones that gave FDR his New Deal, and America its social welfare structure. We need to have a talk about social welfare, because that's where our religious differences bite down the hardest politically. We tend to love the military, the idea of the rule of law, support law enforcement in general, and support individual rights. We're as pro-life as you are. But we're never going to break bread with people who are still in the third grade pitching taunts about our being evil. We're not evil, but you are when you talk like that (not YOU - "ye"). You have to discipline yourself to stop that. That is the PRICE of having the Catholics as the pivot back towards you. You cannot get the Jews - though you profess your love for them - not ever. But you CAN have us for the same reason that FDR did: we believe in social welfare and a functional state. But we are not blacks. We will not sit at the table and pretend we're cool with racists who hate us. You spew your hatred, we hear it, and we walk away. Our common interests are not important enough, because we are actually Catholics - we know that life is short, we die and go someplace better, so we're not going to compromise on anything important, ever. We'll just wait to the afterlife. We are not persuadable, and we are not changeable. But we WILL work with allies towards a common goal. Catholic France gave America its birth in the first place, did we not? (Yes we did.) So, understand that for US, social welfare is not political, it is theological. We cannot abandon it because some asshole named Rand or Hayek or Friedman decided that it is unnecessary. Those people are midgets compared to Jesus of Nazareth, who commands it. We are operating on commandments of God, and we're never going to compromise. You are ALREADY COMPROMISED. You COLLECT Medicare and Social Security, and Medicaid and Disability and Unemployment when you need it. So all of this mewling and puking against the social welfare state, which is your hallmark, is hypocritical and stupid. And you make yourselves disgusting to us by spewing hate at us. Stop spewing the hate. Admit that you NEED the social welfare (because you do), and then sit at the table with us to discuss and work out REASONABLE finances, REASONABLE levels of health care and military spending. Agree on the economic commandments, and all of a sudden you have a majority for not expanding gay marriage and for ratcheting back abortion, for maintaining a robust military and the rule of law. All of a sudden you have what you want. But you'd rather piss all of that away so that you can maintain a stupid hatred of Catholicism that is based on nothing that has happened within the past three hundred years. It is so very dumb. We're not moving. You could. If you do, then you have what you want. If you don't, we sit unmovable and grow through immigration and birth rates, the social welfare state is maintained, and the military, but the society goes to worms. You want to win? Then stop being stupid and stop hating your natural allies. You USED TO hate the Jews with the same vehemence, but you STOPPED. Which means that you CAN decide to stop hating a religious group you don't agree with, if you WANT to. You don't want to. Apparently you like losing. See, we Catholics mostly have what we want. We just want to stop the moral decay. You guys have nothing you want. Everything is falling to ruin. You are too few in numbers, and you're losing all the battles. You're like the South in 1863: you need more men. We are like France, sitting there over the horizon - ABLE to intervene (as we did in 1778) and ABLE to turn the tide. But we're not going to do that unless you reach out your hand. So humble yourselves and turn off the anti-Catholic hatred, and reach out your hand. We will take it. It isn't funny to us. We don't see it as a game. Jack Chick makes me laugh, but that's the way you people ACTUALLY TALK TO ME on this board, because I am a Catholic. Are you REALLY all that ignorant? Honest to God, you seem to be. Well, if you don't want to go the route of the Confederacy, lose the war, and then eventually even have your monuments taken down so that you died in vain for an evil cause, went to hell, and are forgotten here also...memory blotted out. You're well on your way. You don't have to lose. But like George Washington and the founders knew; YOU CANNOT WIN WITHOUT CATHOLIC FRANCE. And you can't. The Confederates didn't have Catholic France or Anglican Britain, because their populations would not let them commit to fighting for slavery. Catholic America would ally with you, if you were not such nasty fucks to us ALL THE TIME. So decide to save yourselves and grow up and knock that shit off for good. It doesn't strengthen YOUR side, and it drives away the only possible allies that could give you the win. Stop insulting us, and understand that we are never going to let you end social welfare, not ever. Accept those two things as GIVENS, and then look at what you can build on a stable political alliance. There is hope, in that path. There is none on your swirling path into darkness. Pickett - don't make the charge.
Replies to Comment # 6. You don't have to lose. But like George Washington and the founders knew; YOU CANNOT WIN WITHOUT CATHOLIC FRANCE. And you can't. The Confederates didn't have Catholic France or Anglican Britain, because their populations would not let them commit to fighting for slavery. Perhaps that you should consider that Catholics can't win on pro-life and pro-family issues either without the Prot voters. It cuts both ways. Catholic and Prot camps make common cause on abortion and family policy pretty broadly and without much fanfare. I always considered this to be understood. And I recall years back you predicting that the great wave of Hispanic immigration would dramatically shift America toward Catholicism because the immigrants were strongly pro-life Catholic. But we don't see that. Instead we see Latin America and South America pivoting to emulate our policies on abortion and same-sex marriage. I think you're mistaken about the fundamental voting habits of a majority of Catholic voters in northeastern Blue states and CA in particular. Where are these pro-life pro-Catholic Dems getting elected to the House, let alone the Senate? And yet these senators from the northeast Blue states do represent a large voting bloc in each of these states. So I don't see where either immigrant Catholics or the states with the highest concentrations of Catholic voters are making any real headway in electing authentic Catholics to office. Instead, you get the Pelosis and other very liberal unCatholic Catholics elected overwhelmingly. But no pro-life Catholics or any that speak out much on same-sex marriage are in office. You might argue that Bob Casey campaigns to the ghost of his father's brand of pro-life politics as a Dem. But even that is a very faint gesture and surely an outlier among prominent Dem politicians.
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