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Religion
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Title: *BRUTAL TRUTH DEBATE*: Christian vs. Muslim; Christ vs. Muhammad/Bible vs. Koran (Fascinating Listen)
Source: You Tube
URL Source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVU3 ... ist&p=8DF2F55C1F8C5A75&index=2
Published: Feb 28, 2008
Author: Dave Hunt
Post Date: 2009-12-13 03:17:12 by Liberator
Keywords: Christianity, Islam, debate
Views: 57924
Comments: 164

This is a debate between Dave Hunt and Shabir Ally in Toronto Canada in 2008. Christianity vs. Islam.

Hunt's credentials and scholarship are impeccable as is his courage. As the author of over 4,000,000 books (of which three I own), you will see and hear him NOT mince any words about the deeply flawed Muhammad, and how deeply flawed the Koran is. No candy-coated PC-Speak here.

He compares and contrasts the Koran vs. Bible convincingly, with conviction and armed with facts. Chances are none of us will ever see another non-compromising debate of this kind ever.

This is Part 3 which blends seamlessly into Part 4, into Part 5 and so on. Hunt's politely yet firmly continues to delve into the stark differences between the two belief systems.

Something to learn for everyone.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

#1. To: mel, Mad Dog, A K A Stone, Joe Snuffy, GarySpFC, BobCeleste, Tater, Gater, All (#0)

I promise you this is worth watching and listening to.

Hunt reminds his Muslim opponent that their debate would NOT be able to have taken place in Saudi Arabia; That the Islam religion is "anti-Christ"; and in general educates the viewer on some real oddities that are NEVER mentioned in a public venue (as cameras pan an obviously agitated Muslim portion of the audience.)

Liberator  posted on  2009-12-13   3:26:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: All (#0)

If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know your self but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle ~ The Art of War, Sun Tzu

Is terrorism the enemy or is Islam the enemy – “Both” is not an answer.

OriginalGatlin  posted on  2009-12-13   3:43:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Liberator, mel (#0)

Thanks for this.

I was unfamiliar with Hunt . I knew most of the info that he stated in the video. Because I have been looking at islam since 11 September 2001, trying to find out the TRUTH about it.

I'd recommend that people who want to know the truth start at these three places,

http://www.apostatesofislam.com/

http://www.memri.org/

http://www.danielpipes.org/bios/

It would also help to get a couple of different approved by islam translations of the koran. I have several, (including the whitewashed and redacted approved for "kafirs" version that CAIR put out several years ago, which I use it as a foot rest). Then read the d@mned things.

He IS a brave man, esp. to do it in Canukistan, with their absurd PC laws.

Thanks again.

Esse Quam Videri.

Mad Dog  posted on  2009-12-13   4:12:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Tater (#2)

The answer is that islam IS terrorism.

Is the concept of "Dar al-islam" and "Dar al-Harb" too complex for your "mind"?

Esse Quam Videri.

Mad Dog  posted on  2009-12-13   4:16:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Mad Dog (#4)

The answer is that islam IS terrorism.

Is the concept of "Dar al-islam" and "Dar al-Harb" too complex for your "mind"?

That can't possibly be true.

Do you know the definiton of "terrorism?"

And a stupid, adolescent attempt at sarcasm does nothing for me.

OriginalGatlin  posted on  2009-12-13   4:35:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Tater (#5)

You are just another ignorant fool or a whore for islam.

Do you even know what islam and it's "holy" books teach about how moo slums MUST treat ALL non- islamic peoples of the world?

Do you even know what islam's own histories say about what it has done to the "dar al-harb"?

It certainly IS true that for ALL non-islamic peoples of the world, and for most islamic peoples of the world, islam IS 'terrorism". (What is the punishment for conversion from islam genius?, how are islam's women and children treated like genius?)

I wouldn't rate your intellect nearly as high as that of even a stoned "adolescent", and I d@mned sure don't care what it "does" for you chump.

Esse Quam Videri.

Mad Dog  posted on  2009-12-13   4:47:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Mad Dog (#6)

Islam is a religion – Terrorism is a tactic.

Terrorism is a tactic and not an ideology.

Which means there is no such thing as the “war on terrorism” because you cannot have a “war on a tactic?”

Instead of a “war on terrorism,” there is a “war against Islamic extremists” that uses terrorism as one of their tactics.

This “war” won't go anywhere, though, without some understanding of the motivations of the terrorists.

Why are they employing the tactic of terrorism and what do they hope to achieve?

OriginalGatlin  posted on  2009-12-13   4:53:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Tater (#7)

I'm NOT going to play semantic games with you.

islam is an ideology that poses as a religion that uses terrorism as a means of conquest and control.

Check out the sites that I cited up thread, TRY learning something about islam then I'll talk with you.

They want to make ALL of the world into "dar al-islam".

TRY reading the d@med koran.

I'll reply to your expected answers sometime tomorrow, you caught me as I was going out the door.

Esse Quam Videri.

Mad Dog  posted on  2009-12-13   5:12:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Liberator, all, *Religious History and Issues* (#1)

I had just started a debate with Mel and Tater on another thread regarding this subject. I am deeply involved in Christian apologetics, and have heard of both Hunt and Pipes. However, the dean on this subject is Norman L. Geisler. I highly recommend Answering Islam: The Crescent in Light of the Cross. by Norman L Geisler and Abdul Saleeb.

After the events of September 11, the issue of violence and religion has once again come into intense discussions and debate. Although various political, socioeconomic and cultural factors have significantly contributed to the rise of violence and terrorism in contemporary fundamentalist Islam, we cannot ignore the religious dimension of this violence that goes back to the very heart and origin of Islam.

The point that we’d like to make is quite simple. While many Muslims are peace-loving, nonetheless, those who commit acts of violence and terror in the name of God can find ample justification for their actions, based on the teachings of the Qur’an and the sayings and examples from prophet Muhammad himself! We have often heard in the media that the relationship between Muslim terrorists and Islam is like that of KKK and Christianity. This analogy is clearly false. Christians who have engaged in violence are betraying the explicit teachings and examples of Jesus Christ. On the other hand, Muslims who take upon themselves to destroy their alleged enemies in the name of God can rightly claim to be following the commands of God in the Qur’an and imitating their prophet as their role model.

Our point, of course, should not be taken to imply that all faithful and devout Muslims must become violent in order to be true to the teachings of Islam. No doubt the majority of the Muslim world condemns acts of terror and violence. There are many schools of thought in Islam with various and often conflicting interpretations of the Qur’an. However, the important distinction that we are making is this: The minority groups in Islam who resort to violence are not an aberration to Islam but in fact can legitimately claim to be working within the basic parameters of Islamic Jihad. We will now turn to the evidence in support of our claim.

SUPPORT FOR VIOLENCE IN THE QUR’AN

The following are only some of the verses in the Qur’an that can and have been used in the history of Islam in support of violence in the name of God and the glories of martyrdom in a holy war.

2:190–193 “Fight in the cause of God those who fight you … And slay them wherever ye catch them … And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression and there prevail justice and faith in God … ”
2:216 “Fighting is prescribed for you and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But God knoweth and ye know not.”
2:224 “Then fight in the cause of God and know that God heareth and knoweth all things.”
3:157–158 “And if ye are slain or die in the way of God, forgiveness and mercy from God are far better than all they could amass. And if ye die, or are slain, Lo! It is unto God that ye are brought together.”
3:169 “Think not of those who are slain in God’s way as dead. Nay, they live finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord.”
3:195 “ … Those who have … fought or been slain, verily I will blot out from them their iniquities and admit them into Gardens with rivers flowing beneath; a reward from the presence of God … ”
4:101 “ … For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies.”
4:74, 75 “Let those fight in the cause of God who sell the life of this world for the Hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of God whether he is slain or gets victory, soon shall we give him a reward of great (value). Those who believe fight in the cause of God and those who reject faith fight in the cause of evil, so fight ye against the friends of Satan, feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan.”
4:89 “They but wish that ye should reject faith as they do, and thus be on the same footing as they. But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of God. But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them … ”
4:95 “Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt and those who strive and fight in the cause of God with their goods and their persons. God hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than those who sit (at home).”
5:36 “The punishment of those who wage war against God and His apostle and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land. That is their disgrace in this world and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter.”
5:54 “O ye who believe. Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust.”
8:12–17 “Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): ‘I am with you. Give firmness to the believers. I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips off them. This because they contend against God and his apostle. If any contend against God and his apostle, God is strict in punishment … O ye who believe. When ye meet the unbelievers in hostile array, never turn your backs to them. If any do turn his back to them on such a day, unless it be a stratagem of war … he draws on himself the wrath of God and his abode is Hell, an evil refuge (indeed).’ ”
8:59–60 “Let not the unbelievers think that they can get the better (of the godly). They will never frustrate (them). Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of God and your enemies and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom God doth know … ”
8:65 “O apostle! Rouse the believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred. If a hundred they will vanquish a thousand of the unbelievers, for these are a people without understanding.”
9:5 “ … fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war) … ”
9:14 “Fight them, and God will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame. … ”
9:29 “Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and his apostle nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth (even if they are) of the people of the Book, until they pay the Jizya [religious tax] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”
47:4 “Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers, smite at their necks, at length when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them).… but if it had been God’s will, he could certainly have exacted retribution from them (himself), but (he lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the way of God, he will never let their deeds be lost.”
61:4 “Truly God loves those who fight in His cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure.”

A simple reading of such Qur’anic passages makes it obvious how easy it is for many Muslims to feel hatred and enmity against Jews, Christians, and other non- Muslims. Although many Muslims are very fond of quoting some of the more “open- minded” and “inclusive” verses of the Qur’an, one cannot ignore the weight and impact of the above passages on a devout Muslim who wants to find and obey the will of God as found in the Qur’an.

GarySpFC  posted on  2009-12-13   5:18:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Mad Dog (#8)

I'll reply to your expected answers sometime tomorrow, you caught me as I was going out the door.

… “expected answers” …

Please don't be surprised when the answers you “expect” do not arrive – and don’t bother to wait for them.

The norm for the practice of social intercourse prohibits me from accepting a bully’s claim that his views are correct or that he has the right to expect anything - because he simply thinks he has the strength and propensity to violence, to attack a poster’s comments.

Therefore, I cannot exchange thoughts and opinions with you until you learn to develop and to exhibit a tone of civility in your approach to sharing information.

Should you have an interest in conducting an intelligent discussion, then I will join you in that and you may now make your attempt at a courteous exchange.

However, if you are interested in continuing to act like an a**, then you are doing an excellent job and you can continue alone in your quest to exceed your current level - and move on to achieve far greater supremacy, but you will do that with someone other than me.

In closing, may I say that evidence of the arrogance you display is exceeded only by your attempt at the use of fevered language.

Good luck – Sir - I wish you well.

OriginalGatlin  posted on  2009-12-13   6:10:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: GarySpFC (#9)

I had just started a debate with Mel and Tater on another thread regarding this subject ...

You have made some excellent points here, Gary - and at first blush, I can find common grounds with your statements.

However, since it is my nature to do thorough research and to give concentrated deep thought before posting a reaction - I am therefore going to need to take some time to digest the informtion you presented.

I want to and I will get back to you on this - Please give me some time, it should take a while since I have guests coming soon.

OriginalGatlin  posted on  2009-12-13   6:25:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Liberator (#1)

Thanks for the ping. I will give it a listen later.

A K A Stone  posted on  2009-12-13   9:16:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: All, *Religious History and Issues* (#9)

Additional resources I would recommend are Baker Encycolpedia of Christian Apologetics, Why I Am a Christian, and issues 40, 74, and 97 of Christian History Magazine. All of these can be obtained immediately in the Logos Bible 4 for computer and iPhone Program Demo. This is for the PC or Mac. I suspect there are over 10,000 books available for Logos users to download. The packages are on sale now for up to 25% off, with the keyword DECKTHEHALLS. Here are the various packages and contents. Comparsion of the various packages. Upgrades to the program are always free, but resources are not. Remember, the are thousands of additional books one can download. I have been using Logos for almost 15 years, and I can search my entire library of over 3,600 books in .87 seconds.

GarySpFC  posted on  2009-12-13   9:30:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Liberator, Mad Dog, *Religious History and Issues* (#0)

Is Islam a Religion of Peace? What do Muslims see in the life of the Prophet Muhammad?

The earliest biography of prophet Muhammad was written by Ibn Ishaq in the second century of the Islamic era and was later edited by Ibn Hisham in the third century. This work was translated into English under the title The Life of Muhammad by A. Guillaume and published by Oxford University Press in 1955. The following accounts are some of the sayings and actions of prophet Muhammad and his close companions found in this biography.

In the constitution of Medina, which the prophet wrote when he and his followers migrated from Mecca in the year 622, we read, “A believer shall not slay a believer for the sake of an unbeliever, nor shall he aid an unbeliever against a believer.… Believers are friends one to the other to the exclusion of outsiders.… The believers must avenge the blood of one another shed in the way of God.”

The first in the series of assassinations that the prophet ordered was an old Jewish man named Ibnu’l-Ashraf. His crime was writing poetry against Muslims. “The apostle said, ‘Who will rid me of Ibnu’l-Ashraf?’ ” One of his followers volunteered and said, “I will deal with him for you, O apostle of God, I will kill him.” And the prophet responded by saying, “Do so if you can.” The prophet also explicitly gave his assassins permission to lie and use trickery in order to accomplish their mission. The report goes on to describe how the prophet’s followers deceived the old man out of his house in the middle of the night and jumped on him with swords and daggers and brutally murdered him. After completing their mission, the followers reported back to the prophet that they “had killed God’s enemy.” The author concludes this incident by writing, “Our attack upon God’s enemy cast terror among the Jews, and there was no Jew in Medina who did not fear for his life.”

In the very next incident in this biography of prophet Muhammad we read, “The apostle said, ‘Kill any Jew that falls into your power.’ ” The author then recounts the story of two brothers, the younger one of which was a Muslim. Upon hearing this command, the younger Muslim brother kills a Jewish merchant. The older brother became very critical of the action of his younger sibling. In response the younger brother says, “Had the one who ordered me to kill him ordered me to kill you I would have cut your head off.” The older brother exclaimed, “ ‘By God, a religion which can bring you to this is marvelous!’ and he became a Muslim.”

In one of the battles, after one of prophet Muhammad’s uncles was savagely killed, Muhammad became so angry that he said, “If God gives me victory over Quraysh in the future I will mutilate 30 of their men.” Seeing the grief of their prophet, Muhammad’s followers claimed, “By God, if God give us victory over them in the future we will mutilate them as no Arab has ever mutilated anyone.” Thankfully, the prophet had a change of mind and later decided to forbid mutilation.

In another famous incident with Jewish people, after having already expelled two Jewish tribes from the city of Medina, the prophet orchestrated the execution of all the adult males of the last Jewish tribe of the city and the taking of all the property and the women and children. The Muslim sources put the number of the Jewish men who were beheaded in one day anywhere between 600 to 900.

On another occasion, the prophet and his companions were looking for the hidden treasure of a conquered tribe. An individual was brought to Muhammad who was supposed to know where the hidden treasure was located. The prophet threatened to kill the individual if he did not tell the Muslims where the treasure was. Upon refusal to cooperate, “The apostle gave orders to al-Zubayr b. al- Awwam, ‘Torture him until you extract what he has,’ so he kindled a fire with flint and steel on his chest until he was nearly dead. Then the apostle delivered him to Muhammad b. Maslama and he struck off his head.”

Upon conquering Mecca, a number of individuals were ordered to be killed by the prophet without any immunity. The crimes committed by the majority of these people were making “satirical songs” against Muhammad or having insulted him during his ministry in Mecca. One person who was fortunate enough to be pardoned was Abdullah b. Sa’d. “The reason he [Muhammad] ordered him to be killed was that he had been a Muslim and used to write down revelation; then he apostatized and returned to Quraysh.” Since Abdullah was a foster brother of a close companion of Muhammad, he was able to receive a hearing from the prophet and ask for immunity. The prophet unwillingly granted the immunity. After the pardoned person left, Muhammad said to his companions, “ ‘I kept silent so that one of you might get up and strike off his head!’ One of the Ansar said, ‘Then why didn’t you give me a sign, O apostle of God?’ He answered that a prophet does not kill by pointing.”

To one of his commanders whom the prophet was sending on an “expedition,” he gave this advice, “Fight everyone in the way of God and kill those who disbelieve in God. Do not be deceitful with the spoil; do not be treacherous, nor mutilate, nor kill children. This is God’s ordinance and the practice of his prophet among you.”

Another assassination ordered by the prophet was regarding his uncle Abu Sufyan, the leader of the pagan opposition in Mecca. Muslim volunteers traveled to Mecca to carry out this mission. The assassination attempt failed, however. On the way back to Medina, one of the followers of the prophet encountered a one-eyed shepherd who confidently claimed that he would never accept Islam. We pick up the account from the Muslim assassin himself. As soon as the man was “asleep and snoring I got up and killed him in a more horrible way than any man has been killed. I put the end of my bow in his sound eye, then I bore down on it until I forced it out at the back of his neck.… When I got to Medina … the apostle asked my news and when I told him what had happened he blessed me.”

The biography of the prophet follows this account with two more reports of successful assassinations ordered by the prophet. Abu Afak had “showed his disaffection with the apostle” by composing a poem. “The apostle said, ‘Who will deal with this rascal for me?’ whereupon Salim b. Umayr … went forth and killed him.” After this assassination, a woman by the name of Asma b. Marwan “displayed disaffection” and also composed a poem against the prophet. “When the apostle heard what she had said he said, ‘Who will rid me of Marwan’s daughter?’ Umayr … who was with him heard him, and that very night he went to her house and killed her. In the morning he came to the apostle and told him what he had done and he [Muhammad] said, ‘You have helped God and His apostle, O Umayr.’ ”

Once again, we think the above sample (which by no means is an exhaustive list of the violence found in the earliest biography of the prophet) is enough to provide more than an adequate justification for the killing and destruction of anyone who opposes the ideology of Islam and its demand for total submission.

GarySpFC  posted on  2009-12-13   10:06:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Tater (#7)

Islam is a religion – Terrorism is a tactic.

Correction: terrorism is the tactic of muslims, Islam is the religon of and guiding principal of terrorist.

BobCeleste  posted on  2009-12-13   15:48:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Tater (#10)

MD; I'll reply to your expected answers sometime tomorrow, you caught me as I was going out the door.

T; … “expected answers” …

Please don't be surprised when the answers you “expect” do not arrive – and don’t bother to wait for them.

The norm for the practice of social intercourse prohibits me from accepting a bully’s claim that his views are correct or that he has the right to expect anything - because he simply thinks he has the strength and propensity to violence, to attack a poster’s comments.

Therefore, I cannot exchange thoughts and opinions with you until you learn to develop and to exhibit a tone of civility in your approach to sharing information.

Should you have an interest in conducting an intelligent discussion, then I will join you in that and you may now make your attempt at a courteous exchange.

However, if you are interested in continuing to act like an a**, then you are doing an excellent job and you can continue alone in your quest to exceed your current level - and move on to achieve far greater supremacy, but you will do that with someone other than me.

In closing, may I say that evidence of the arrogance you display is exceeded only by your attempt at the use of fevered language.

Good luck – Sir - I wish you well.

Sigh ...

I meant that I expected you to answer. I made no comment on what you would answer with. I'm not God, I can't see the future.

"Bully"? Why because you pull your ideas about what islam is out of thin air and I have actually READ about it and I actually know what it's history and dogma and traditional practices are and I object to your ignorant nonsense re: islam?

When you want to discuss things it is adult behavior to actually know FACTS about the subject.

It is not a matter of me being "superior" it is about the actual FACTS vice the absolutely brain dead sheeple delusions about a very great threat to US ALL.

I don't give a rusty F if you are offended by me b!tch slapping you with the TRUTH.

Maybe that will wake you up?

What is truly ARROGANT is talking bullsh!t in a life and death matter and then posing as the wronged and offended party when you get called on it.

Grow F ing up.

I also don't give a rusty F if you don't care for my vocabulary and syntax.

"Don't call me Sir, my parents were married."

Esse Quam Videri.

Mad Dog  posted on  2009-12-13   15:54:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Mad Dog (#16)

"Don't call me Sir, my parents were married."

There goes my drink again....

Murron  posted on  2009-12-13   15:58:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Murron (#17)

;^)

Esse Quam Videri.

Mad Dog  posted on  2009-12-13   16:10:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Mad Dog (#16)

"Don't call me Sir, my parents were married."

To each other?

OriginalGatlin  posted on  2009-12-13   16:24:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Murron (#17)

There goes my drink again....

There goes my drink again ... too ...

OriginalGatlin  posted on  2009-12-13   16:28:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Liberator (#1)

Thanks for the ping. I'm halfway through my essay and don't have time to listen to this right now, but I will get back to it later today or tomorrow.

Your God is One God:
There is no god but He,
Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

I'll let you guess where that came from.

It is extremely difficult for the wealthy to enter the kingdom of heaven. Those who consider themselves superior are more at odds with God than those who are aware of their sins. Those who sincerely repent—even if they are the hated toll-collectors, prostitutes, or ignorant common people—are more likely to receive God’s forgiveness than are the learned and self-righteous.
Happy Birthday, Jesus! Merry Christmas everyone!

mel  posted on  2009-12-13   16:35:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Tater (#19)

Real nice "argument" a$$wipe.

It takes no effort at all to live "up" to your "standards" eh HYPOCRITE?

At least, unlike you a$$wipe, I know who my parents are.

Esse Quam Videri.

Mad Dog  posted on  2009-12-13   16:43:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Mad Dog (#22)

As you search for the reality, may you find strength
and solace to comprehend this profound revelation.
Let yourself cry knowing each tear is a note of love
rising to the heavens above. Learn to lean on your
friends for strength and support to avoid unilateral or
selective reaction as you continue your burden in life.

OriginalGatlin  posted on  2009-12-13   18:22:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: BobCeleste (#15)

Islam is a religion – Terrorism is a tactic.

Correction: terrorism is the tactic of muslims, Islam is the religon of and guiding principal of terrorist.

Islam is an insane murder cult.......nothing more,,,,nothing less. These defenders of this death cult are as dangerous as the cultist themselves and all are a threat to all of humanity.

Gater  posted on  2009-12-13   18:29:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: BobCeleste (#15)

Islam is a religion – Terrorism is a tactic.

Correction: terrorism is the tactic of muslims, Islam is the religon of and guiding principal of terrorist.

I find no disagreement here. You are in agreement with my point that terrorism is defined and acknowledged as a tactic. And I am in agreement that terrorism has been a tactic used by some Muslims who feel they used Islam as a religious guiding principle in the conduct of their terrorist activity.

OriginalGatlin  posted on  2009-12-13   18:32:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Tater (#23)

You TRYING to lecture me then acting worse than I have has a name.

"Do as I say, NOT as I DO" is called HYPOCRISY.

Keep your attempts to pose as having ANY sort of "moral" superiority aimed at small children and dumb animals, you mealy mouthed hypocrite, they will believe you.

Esse Quam Videri.

Mad Dog  posted on  2009-12-13   19:05:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Mad Dog (#26)

Ignore the insulting tongue. Duck the provoking blow. Run from the assault of the strong.
The wild boar runs from the tiger, knowing that each be well-armed by nature with deadly strength, may kill the other.
Running, he saves his own life and that of the tiger. This is not cowardice. It is the love of life.
-- Master Kahn

OriginalGatlin  posted on  2009-12-13   19:12:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Tater (#27)

"You TRYING to lecture me then acting worse than I have has a name.

"Do as I say, NOT as I DO" is called HYPOCRISY.

Keep your attempts to pose as having ANY sort of "moral" superiority aimed at small children and dumb animals, you mealy mouthed hypocrite, they will believe you."

Btw; how's your study of islam going hypocrite?

Esse Quam Videri.

Mad Dog  posted on  2009-12-13   19:15:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Mad Dog (#28)

If you plant rice, rice will grow. If you plant fear, fear will grow. – Caine

OriginalGatlin  posted on  2009-12-13   19:17:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Tater (#29)

"TRUTH is an ABSOLUTE defense."

"Veritas nunquam perit." - Truth never dies.

"Fiat justitia ruat caelum."

Esse Quam Videri.

Mad Dog  posted on  2009-12-13   19:30:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Mad Dog (#30)

"TRUTH is an ABSOLUTE defense."

What is truth?

Truth has been one of the largest topics of discussion for thousands of years.

The problem with truth is that in a way it is not easy to state: what truths are, and what (if anything) makes them true.

But this simple statement masks a great deal of controversy.

There is a metaphysical problem of truth and what kind of theory might address it.

The standing issue in the theory of truth: What makes truth – be true?

If I never lie again, can I be the same me as I was before? -- Alethea
Each waking moment is as a rung on an endless ladder. Each step we take is built on what has gone before. -- Caine

OriginalGatlin  posted on  2009-12-13   20:18:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Mad Dog (#30)

I want to ask you the same series of questions I posted on another thread. This is what ever you wish to call it. I call it food for thought.

Jews don't celebrate Christmas. A lot of people don't celebrate Christmas. Did you know that only approx 33% of the worlds population consider themselves Christian? 22% consider themselves Muslim. The number of people who convert to Islam is growing at a much faster rate than those converting to Christianity. About 76% of Americans consider themselves of a Christian faith of one denominations or another. The nuber who chose basic Christianity is much less than that, approx 2/3 less.

So, if Obama chooses not to celebrate Christmas the way your average Christian does, why would that bother you? Do we not have the freedom to choose our own religion in the US? Furthermore, why would you be suprised? You already know what type of bigoted "Christian" church he attended for many years. Did you actually believe he was a real Christian and therefore would hold the same Christian values that real Christians hold?

This leads me to another question. Do you think the only presidents we should ever elect should be those of a Christian faith? What about Mormons? Are they eligible? Jews? Buhddists? Hindus? Pagans? Wiccans? Muslims? In a world were we are to be free and be able to freely practice our religions of choice, should we now ban some religions and not others? And who gets to determine which ones are allowed and which ones are not? In China, the Government is officially athiest. It took some time to get them to accept some religions, but others are still banned. Should we do the same in America? Or should Christianity be considered the official religion of the US? So which is it? We would be hypocrits in the eyes of Jesus if we preach such freedoms and pass laws to limit them at the same time. We would surely be damned to hell for such practices.

It is extremely difficult for the wealthy to enter the kingdom of heaven. Those who consider themselves superior are more at odds with God than those who are aware of their sins. Those who sincerely repent—even if they are the hated toll-collectors, prostitutes, or ignorant common people—are more likely to receive God’s forgiveness than are the learned and self-righteous.
Happy Birthday, Jesus! Merry Christmas everyone!

mel  posted on  2009-12-13   20:25:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Tater (#31)

I sent you a message.

It is extremely difficult for the wealthy to enter the kingdom of heaven. Those who consider themselves superior are more at odds with God than those who are aware of their sins. Those who sincerely repent—even if they are the hated toll-collectors, prostitutes, or ignorant common people—are more likely to receive God’s forgiveness than are the learned and self-righteous.
Happy Birthday, Jesus! Merry Christmas everyone!

mel  posted on  2009-12-13   20:25:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Tater (#31)

What is truth?

LOL! It SO Figures that YOU would paraphrase Pontious pilot, esp in the context of THIS particular "discussion".

It is such a blatant attempt to change the subject in this context.

What does the koran say? What is the actual Arabic text? What does islam teach? What do the imams teach/preach? What is islam's dogma? What is islam's self stated history? What do the actual islamic source documents say?

ALL of the answers to these particular questions are a matter of obvious FACT. They are NOT in any honest dispute, esp. on any "metaphysical" basis.

If you questioned the existence of God, or of al ha ha, you would have a point. But this is a very simple matter.

The TRUTH is that you either don't know a d@mned thing about islam, or you are a liar who has a pro moo slum/islam agenda, and are interested in hiding the TRUTH about islam. I guess that you might just be a mentally limited person also?

But any way that you cut it, all in all, it is a VERY clumsy, and lame attempt, to change the subject.

But you have already shown that you are not an intellectually honest person here.

LOL!

LAME!

Esse Quam Videri.

Mad Dog  posted on  2009-12-13   20:44:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: mel (#32)

I want to ask you the same series of questions I posted on another thread. This is what ever you wish to call it. I call it food for thought.

1.) Jews don't celebrate Christmas. A lot of people don't celebrate Christmas. Did you know that only approx 33% of the worlds population consider themselves Christian? 22% consider themselves Muslim. The number of people who convert to Islam is growing at a much faster rate than those converting to Christianity. About 76% of Americans consider themselves of a Christian faith of one denominations or another. The nuber who chose basic Christianity is much less than that, approx 2/3 less.

2.) So, if Obama chooses not to celebrate Christmas the way your average Christian does, why would that bother you? Do we not have the freedom to choose our own religion in the US? Furthermore, why would you be suprised? You already know what type of bigoted "Christian" church he attended for many years. Did you actually believe he was a real Christian and therefore would hold the same Christian values that real Christians hold?

3.) This leads me to another question. Do you think the only presidents we should ever elect should be those of a Christian faith? What about Mormons? Are they eligible? Jews? Buhddists? Hindus? Pagans? Wiccans? Muslims? In a world were we are to be free and be able to freely practice our religions of choice, should we now ban some religions and not others? And who gets to determine which ones are allowed and which ones are not? In China, the Government is officially athiest. It took some time to get them to accept some religions, but others are still banned. Should we do the same in America? Or should Christianity be considered the official religion of the US? So which is it? We would be hypocrits in the eyes of Jesus if we preach such freedoms and pass laws to limit them at the same time. We would surely be damned to hell for such practices.

1.) That is not correct, many Jews do "celebrate" Christmas. In fact many non-Christians worldwide "celebrate" Christmas. Again you post numbers without citing the sources. So those numbers in this discussion mean absolutely nothing.

I note that you totally ignore the effects of the fact that all children born to islamic parents are considered to be moo slums by islam, and that the penalty for islamic apostacy is death, effects on the inflated numbers claimed by islam.

But really no matter what, so what? Who cares?

What happens between an individual and GOD is not my business. I see no biblical requirement to "celebrate" Christmas, where do YOU see it?

2.) LOL! It is important because he CLAIMS to be a "mainstream American Christian" and "mainstream American Christians" by and large celebrate Christmas. Of course he has the right to be whatever he wants to be. But if he is not a "main stream Christian" he LIED to America.

It is also important because no matter how you gin up the numbers, the vast majority of Americans ARE self professed Christians, and the messiah "king" obammy by breaking this specific TRADITION is purposely insulting us all.

I never believed that that stalinist scum was anything but the enemy of ALL things American. I wouldn't believe him if he said that it was daylight at high noon.

Do you know the difference between the messiah "king" obammy and GOD?

GOD doesn't think that he is obammy.

LOL!

3.) Already mostly answered.

There is no official religion of America, and that is one of the basic ideas of America since our founding. I certainly don't support such nonsense. Nor does anybody or any religion, (except islam and moo slums of course).

But I don't think that any moo slum should hold any position of public power and trust.

Would you have supported a Japanese American presidential candidate during WW2?

If so, you really are a deluded Polly Annish PC fool imo.

"The bill of rights is NOT a suicide pact."

Btw; don't you even TRY to speak for Jesus. Jesus hates satan, and islam is the tool of satan IMO.

Esse Quam Videri.

Mad Dog  posted on  2009-12-13   21:19:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Mad Dog (#35)

Well...You've turned out to be quite the hypocrit. That's not very Christian- like.

Jesus loves everyone, including his enemies. He has stated that.

Thanks for proving you too are incapable of addressing legitamate questions and concerns.

Hypocrites! It was you Isaiah meant when he so rightly prophesied: “This people honors me only with lip service / while their hearts are far from me. / The worship they offer me is worthless; / the doctrines they teach are only human regulations.”24 He called the people to him and said, “Listen, and understand. What goes into the mouth does not make a man unclean; it is what comes out of the mouth that makes him unclean. . . . For things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and it is these that make a man unclean. For from the heart come evil intentions. . . . But to eat with unwashed hands does not make a man unclean.”25 . . . “Alas for you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You who are like whitewashed tombs that look handsome on the outside, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and every kind of corruption. In the same way you appear to people from the outside like good honest men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.”

It is extremely difficult for the wealthy to enter the kingdom of heaven. Those who consider themselves superior are more at odds with God than those who are aware of their sins. Those who sincerely repent—even if they are the hated toll-collectors, prostitutes, or ignorant common people—are more likely to receive God’s forgiveness than are the learned and self-righteous.
Happy Birthday, Jesus! Merry Christmas everyone!

mel  posted on  2009-12-13   21:30:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: mel (#36)

You really turned out to be a supercilious and ignorant child mel.

WHAT hypocrisy fool?

I've NEVER claimed to be perfect or complete, quite the opposite. I'm just a sinner saved by the blood of the lamb.

What did Jesus say about calling people a "whitewashed tomb" fool?

Thank the Lord fools such as YOU don't get to decide who is and who is not a Christian or saved.

You are one the people Paul spoke to about observing the letter of the law fool.

Esse Quam Videri.

Mad Dog  posted on  2009-12-13   21:44:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Mad Dog (#37)

That you can not even see your own hypocrisy says so much about who you really are. I suggest you refresh your memory on what Jesus had commanded you to do.

It is extremely difficult for the wealthy to enter the kingdom of heaven. Those who consider themselves superior are more at odds with God than those who are aware of their sins. Those who sincerely repent—even if they are the hated toll-collectors, prostitutes, or ignorant common people—are more likely to receive God’s forgiveness than are the learned and self-righteous.
Happy Birthday, Jesus! Merry Christmas everyone!

mel  posted on  2009-12-13   22:24:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Mad Dog (#37)

PS...Thanks for proving you, too, are incapable of addressing legitamate questions and concerns.

It is extremely difficult for the wealthy to enter the kingdom of heaven. Those who consider themselves superior are more at odds with God than those who are aware of their sins. Those who sincerely repent—even if they are the hated toll-collectors, prostitutes, or ignorant common people—are more likely to receive God’s forgiveness than are the learned and self-righteous.
Happy Birthday, Jesus! Merry Christmas everyone!

mel  posted on  2009-12-13   22:25:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: All (#0)

If God has the internet, he's got to be LOL after reading this thread.

______________________________________________________________ tag ... you're it.

Wood_Chopper  posted on  2009-12-13   22:41:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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