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See other Religion Articles

Title: Obama on DC Jihadis: "Fiercely loyal Muslims"
Source: Atlas Shrugs
URL Source: http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/ ... is-fiercely-loyal-muslims.html
Published: Dec 11, 2009
Author: staff
Post Date: 2009-12-11 09:48:16 by Joe Snuffy
Keywords: War on Terror, Obama, US Muslim terrorists
Views: 36147
Comments: 91

Obama on DC Jihadis: "Fiercely loyal Muslims"

Crazy, man.

Check out the TOTUS's response today to the devastating news of five DC Muslim students tracked down and arrested in Pakistan. They were plotting jihad. What did Pres Moe say? He speaks about fiercely loyal Muslims ....loyal to whom exactly?

(vid hat tip KGS)

Obama spent a month in Pakistan during his college years ....perhaps he is, uh, sympathetic.

Here is a sampling of different posts in the past three months of fiercely loyal Muslim activity here in the good old USA:

Chicago Muslim Charged In Mumbai Islamic Massacre Planned More Terror Attacks in India

AMERICAN JIHAD: FBI INVESTIGATING 5 MISSING MUSLIM STUDENTS IN DC, POSSIBLE ARREST IN PAKISTAN

“I said he was acting...like a terrorist,” roommate of Jihadi who Murdered Binghamton Professor

Muslims of America Domestic Terror Jihad training camp videos to be released

Chicago Jihadis who Plotted to bomb Danish Cartoon Publisher at Halal Slaughterhouse Tied to Mumbai

Muslim Sentenced to Six-year jail term in Plot to Blow up Sears Tower: "Islamic terrorism is one of the most tremendous problem that this country now confronts ... this defendant took an oath to Al-Qaeda"

Beltway Jihadi Sniper John Muhammad: Death to the Jihadi Tonight

Fort Hood Jihad

Going Muslim on a Photographer outside Michigan Mosque

Son of an Imam Killed in Gun Battle with the FBI in Detroit is Arrested


Michigan Mosque leader killed during Islamic gun battle with fed

Hush Hush: Huge Fed/FBI Raid on Chicago Halal Goat Meat Slaughterhouse


Boston Muslim Terrorist Son of MAS (Muslim American Society) Leader


Another Conviction of Muslims Engaged in Plotting Islamic Attacks Against American Overseas

NY Imam Indicted in NYC Terror Attack Plot

Massive Muslim Attack Averted: "plot to kill two prominent US politicians and carry out a holy war by attacking shoppers in US malls and American troops in Iraq"

Obama First Female Veiled Islamist Appointee, Dalia Mogahed, Promotes Sharia, Says it's "Misunderstood

"New York Muslim indicted for plotting to kill U.S. troopswww.dallasnews.com/shared...ombarrest.1b177db8b.html" target="_blank">

www.dallasnews.com/shared...ombarrest.1b177db8b.html" target="_blank">FBI arrests Jordanian for downtown Dallas bomb plot...

NYC: Muslims Protest "RACIAL PROFILING" in wake of arrests in major jihad terror plot


www.reuters.com/article/m...ws/idUSN2447383520090924" target="_blank">Illinois man charged in plot to bomb federal offices...

www.reuters.com/article/d...ws/idUSTRE58N6YT20090924" target="_blank">Terror suspects accused of targeting Marine base in Quantico...

cbs3.com/local/SEPTA.Broad.Street.2.1206878.html" target="_blank">Men vanish after taking photos of Philly subway system...

Click for Full Text!

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#19. To: All (#18)

"Those who believe (in the Quran), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians...and (all) who believe in God and the last day and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." The Qur'an, 2:62

According to the Qur'an, Muslims are to accept other religions and live in peace among them. Just as there are those who call themselves Christians who do not follow God's commands, there are those who call themselves Muslims who do not follow Allah's commands.

Since somebody felt like bringing up Christians....

Listed are only events that solely occurred on command or participation of church authorities or were committed in the name of Christianity. (List incomplete)

Ancient Pagans

•As soon as Christianity became legal in the Roman Empire by imperial edict (315), more and more pagan temples were destroyed by Christian mob. Pagan priests were killed.

•Between 315 and 6th century thousands of pagan believers were slain.

•Examples of destroyed Temples: the Sanctuary of Aesculap in Aegaea, the Temple of Aphrodite in Golgatha, Aphaka in Lebanon, the Heliopolis.

•Christian priests such as Mark of Arethusa or Cyrill of Heliopolis were famous as "temple destroyer." [DA468]

•Pagan services became punishable by death in 356. [DA468]

•Christian Emperor Theodosius (408-450) even had children executed, because they had been playing with remains of pagan statues. [DA469] According to Christian chroniclers he "followed meticulously all Christian teachings..."

•In 6th century pagans were declared void of all rights.

•In the early fourth century the philosopher Sopatros was executed on demand of Christian authorities. [DA466]

•The world famous female philosopher Hypatia of Alexandria was torn to pieces with glass fragments by a hysterical Christian mob led by a Christian minister named Peter, in a church, in 415. [DO19-25]

Mission

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

•Emperor Karl (Charlemagne) in 782 had 4500 Saxons, unwilling to convert to Christianity, beheaded. [DO30]

•Peasants of Steding (Germany) unwilling to pay suffocating church taxes: between 5,000 and 11,000 men, women and children slain 5/27/1234 near Altenesch/Germany. [WW223]

•15th century Poland: 1019 churches and 17987 villages plundered by Knights of the Order. Number of victims unknown. [DO30]

•16th and 17th century Ireland. English troops "pacified and civilized" Ireland, where only Gaelic "wild Irish", "unreasonable beasts lived without any knowledge of God or good manners, in common of their goods, cattle, women, children and every other thing." One of the more successful soldiers, a certain Humphrey Gilbert, half-brother of Sir Walter Raleigh, ordered that "the heddes of all those (of what sort soever thei were) which were killed in the daie, should be cutte off from their bodies... and should bee laied on the ground by eche side of the waie", which effort to civilize the Irish indeed caused "greate terrour to the people when thei sawe the heddes of their dedde fathers, brothers, children, kinsfolke, and freinds on the grounde". Tens of thousands of Gaelic Irish fell victim to the carnage. [SH99, 225]

Crusades (1095-1291)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

•First Crusade: 1095 on command of pope Urban II. [WW11-41]

•Semlin/Hungary 6/24/96 thousands slain. Wieselburg/Hungary 6/12/96 thousands. [WW23]

•9/9/96-9/26/96 Nikaia, Xerigordon (then Turkish), thousands respectively. [WW25-27]

•Until January 1098 a total of 40 capital cities and 200 castles conquered (number of slain unknown) [WW30]

•After 6/3/98 Antiochia (then Turkish) conquered, between 10,000 and 60,000 slain. 6/28/98 100,000 Turks (incl. women and children) killed. [WW32-35] Here the Christians "did no other harm to the women found in [the enemy's] tents - save that they ran their lances through their bellies," according to Christian chronicler Fulcher of Chartres. [EC60]

•Marra (Maraat an-numan) 12/11/98 thousands killed. Because of the subsequent famine "the already stinking corpses of the enemies were eaten by the Christians" said chronicler Albert Aquensis. [WW36]

Jerusalem conquered 7/15/1099 more than 60,000 victims (Jewish, Muslim, men, women, children). [WW37-40] In the words of one witness: "there [in front of Solomon's temple] was such a carnage that our people were wading ankle-deep in the blood of our foes", and after that "happily and crying for joy our people marched to our Saviour's tomb, to honour it and to pay off our debt of gratitude."

•The Archbishop of Tyre, eye-witness, wrote: "It was impossible to look upon the vast numbers of the slain without horror; everywhere lay fragments of human bodies, and the very ground was covered with the blood of the slain. It was not alone the spectacle of headless bodies and mutilated limbs strewn in all directions that roused the horror of all who looked upon them. Still more dreadful was it to gaze upon the victors themselves, dripping with blood from head to foot, an ominous sight which brought terror to all who met them. It is reported that within the Temple enclosure alone about ten thousand infidels perished." [TG79]

•Christian chronicler Eckehard of Aura noted that "even the following summer in all of Palestine the air was polluted by the stench of decomposition". [WW41]

•Battle of Askalon, 8/12/1099. Thousands of heathens slaughtered "in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ". [WW45]

•Fourth crusade: 4/12/1204 Constantinople sacked, number of victims unknown, numerous thousands, many of them Christian. [WW141-148]

•Crusades (1095-1291)

Ê2;Estimated totals:

Ã2;Wertham: 1,000,000

Ã2;Charles Mackay, Memoirs of Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds (1841): 2,000,000 Europeans killed. [http://www.bootlegbooks.com/NonFiction/Mackay/PopDelusions/chap09.html]

Ã2;Aletheia, The Rationalist's Manual: 5,000,000

Ê2;Individual Events:

Ã2;Davies: Crusaders killed up to 8,000 Jews in Rhineland

Ã2;Paul Johnson A History of the Jews (1987): 1,000 Jewish women in Rhineland comm. suicide to avoid the mob, 1096.

Ã2;Gibbon, Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, v.5, 6

Ã2;1st Crusade: 300,000 Eur. k at Battle of Nice [Nicea].

Ã2;Crusaders vs. Solimon of Roum: 4,000 Christians, 3,000 Moslems

Ã2;1098, Fall of Antioch: 100,000 Moslems massacred.

Ã2;50,000 Pilgrims died of disease.

Ã2;1099, Fall of Jerusalem: 70,000 Moslems massacred.

Ã2;Siege of Tiberias: 30,000 Christians k.

Ã2;Siege of Tyre: 1,000 Turks

Ã2;Richard the Lionhearted executes 3,000 Moslem POWs.

Ã2;1291: 100,000 Christians k after fall of Acre.

Ã2;Fall of Christian Antioch: 17,000 massacred.

Ã2;[TOTAL: 677,000 listed in these episodes here.]

Ã2;Catholic Encyclopedia (1910) [http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/]

Ã2;Jaffa: 20,000 Christians massacred, 1197

Ã2;Sorokin estimates that French, English & Imperial German Crusaders lost a total of 3,600 in battle.

Ã2;1st C (1096-99): 400

Ã2;2nd C (1147-49): 750

Ã2;3rd C (1189-91): 930

Ã2;4th C (1202-04): 120

Ã2;5th C (1228-29): 600

Ã2;7th C (1248-54): 700

Ã2;James Trager, The People's Chronology (1992)

Ã2;1099: Crusaders slaughter 40,000 inhabs of Jerusalem. Dis/starv reduced Crusaders from 300,000 to 60,000.

Ã2;1147: 2nd Crusades begins with 500,000. "Most" lost to starv./disease/battle.

Ã2;1190: 500 Jews massacred in York.

Ã2;1192: 3rd Crusade reduced from 100,000 to 5,000 through famine, plagues and desertions in campaign vs Antioch.

Ã2;1212: Children's Crusade loses some 50,000.

Ã2;[TOTAL: Just in these incidents, it appears the Europeans lost around 650,000.]

Ê2;TOTAL: When I take all the individual death tolls listed here, weed out the duplicates, fill in the blanks, apply Occam ("Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate"), etc. I get a very rough total of 1½ M deaths in the Crusades.

Jerusalem conquered 7/15/1099 more than 60,000 victims (Jewish, Muslim, men, women, children). [WW37-40] In the words of one witness: "there [in front of Solomon's temple] was such a carnage that our people were wading ankle-deep in the blood of our foes", and after that "happily and crying for joy our people marched to our Saviour's tomb, to honour it and to pay off our debt of gratitude."

•The Archbishop of Tyre, eye-witness, wrote: "It was impossible to look upon the vast numbers of the slain without horror; everywhere lay fragments of human bodies, and the very ground was covered with the blood of the slain. It was not alone the spectacle of headless bodies and mutilated limbs strewn in all directions that roused the horror of all who looked upon them. Still more dreadful was it to gaze upon the victors themselves, dripping with blood from head to foot, an ominous sight which brought terror to all who met them. It is reported that within the Temple enclosure alone about ten thousand infidels perished." [TG79]

•Christian chronicler Eckehard of Aura noted that "even the following summer in all of Palestine the air was polluted by the stench of decomposition". [WW41]

•Battle of Askalon, 8/12/1099. Thousands of heathens slaughtered "in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ". [WW45]

•Fourth crusade: 4/12/1204 Constantinople sacked, number of victims unknown, numerous thousands, many of them Christian. [WW141-148]

•Crusades (1095-1291)

Ê2;Estimated totals:

Ã2;Wertham: 1,000,000

Ã2;Charles Mackay, Memoirs of Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds (1841): 2,000,000 Europeans killed. [http://www.bootlegbooks.com/NonFiction/Mackay/PopDelusions/chap09.html]

Ã2;Aletheia, The Rationalist's Manual: 5,000,000

Ê2;Individual Events:

Ã2;Davies: Crusaders killed up to 8,000 Jews in Rhineland

Ã2;Paul Johnson A History of the Jews (1987): 1,000 Jewish women in Rhineland comm. suicide to avoid the mob, 1096.

Ã2;Gibbon, Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, v.5, 6

Ã2;1st Crusade: 300,000 Eur. k at Battle of Nice [Nicea].

Ã2;Crusaders vs. Solimon of Roum: 4,000 Christians, 3,000 Moslems

Ã2;1098, Fall of Antioch: 100,000 Moslems massacred.

Ã2;50,000 Pilgrims died of disease.

Ã2;1099, Fall of Jerusalem: 70,000 Moslems massacred.

Ã2;Siege of Tiberias: 30,000 Christians k.

Ã2;Siege of Tyre: 1,000 Turks

Ã2;Richard the Lionhearted executes 3,000 Moslem POWs.

Ã2;1291: 100,000 Christians k after fall of Acre.

Ã2;Fall of Christian Antioch: 17,000 massacred.

Ã2;[TOTAL: 677,000 listed in these episodes here.]

Ã2;Catholic Encyclopedia (1910) [http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/]

Ã2;Jaffa: 20,000 Christians massacred, 1197

Ã2;Sorokin estimates that French, English & Imperial German Crusaders lost a total of 3,600 in battle.

Ã2;1st C (1096-99): 400

Ã2;2nd C (1147-49): 750

Ã2;3rd C (1189-91): 930

Ã2;4th C (1202-04): 120

Ã2;5th C (1228-29): 600

Ã2;7th C (1248-54): 700

Ã2;James Trager, The People's Chronology (1992)

Ã2;1099: Crusaders slaughter 40,000 inhabs of Jerusalem. Dis/starv reduced Crusaders from 300,000 to 60,000.

Ã2;1147: 2nd Crusades begins with 500,000. "Most" lost to starv./disease/battle.

Ã2;1190: 500 Jews massacred in York.

Ã2;1192: 3rd Crusade reduced from 100,000 to 5,000 through famine, plagues and desertions in campaign vs Antioch.

Ã2;1212: Children's Crusade loses some 50,000.

Ã2;[TOTAL: Just in these incidents, it appears the Europeans lost around 650,000.]

Ê2;TOTAL: When I take all the individual death tolls listed here, weed out the duplicates, fill in the blanks, apply Occam ("Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate"), etc. I get a very rough total of 1½ M deaths in the Crusades.

Religious Wars

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

•15th century: Crusades against Hussites, thousands slain. [DO30]

•1538 pope Paul III declared Crusade against apostate England and all English as slaves of Church (fortunately had not power to go into action). [DO31]

•1568 Spanish Inquisition Tribunal ordered extermination of 3 million rebels in (then Spanish) Netherlands. [DO31] Between 5000 and 6000 Protestants were drowned by Spanish Catholic Troops, "a disaster the burghers of Emden first realized when several thousand broad- brimmed Dutch hats floated by." [SH216]

•1572 In France about 20,000 Huguenots were killed on command of pope Pius V. Until 17th century 200,000 flee. [DO31]

•17th century: Catholics slay Gaspard de Coligny, a Protestant leader. After murdering him, the Catholic mob mutilated his body, "cutting off his head, his hands, and his genitals... and then dumped him into the river [...but] then, deciding that it was not worthy of being food for the fish, they hauled it out again [... and] dragged what was left ... to the gallows of Montfaulcon, 'to be meat and carrion for maggots and crows'." [SH191]

•17th century: Catholics sack the city of Magdeburg/Germany: roughly 30,000 Protestants were slain. "In a single church fifty women were found beheaded," reported poet Friedrich Schiller, "and infants still sucking the breasts of their lifeless mothers." [SH191]

•17th century 30 years' war (Catholic vs. Protestant): at least 40% of population decimated, mostly in Germany. [DO31-32]

Jews

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

•Already in the 4th and 5th centuries synagogues were burned by Christians.Number of Jews slain unknown.

•In the middle of the fourth century the first synagogue was destroyed on command of bishop Innocentius of Dertona in Northern Italy. The first synagogue known to have been burned down was near the river Euphrat, on command of the bishop of Kallinikon in the year 388. [DA450]

• 694 17. Council of Toledo: Jews were enslaved, their property confiscated, and their children forcibly baptized. [DA454]

•1010 The Bishop of Limoges (France) had the cities' Jews, who would not convert to Christianity, expelled or killed. [DA453]

•1096 First Crusade: Thousands of Jews slaughtered, maybe 12.000 total. Places: Worms 5/18/1096, Mainz 5/27/1096 (1100 persons), Cologne, Neuss, Altenahr, Wevelinghoven, Xanten, Moers, Dortmund, Kerpen, Trier, Metz, Regensburg, Prag and others (All locations Germany except Metz/France, Prag/Czech) [EJ]

•1147 Second Crusade: Several hundred Jews were slain in Ham, Sully, Carentan, and Rameru (all locations in France). [WW57]

•1189/90 Third Crusade: English Jewish communities sacked. [DO40]

•1235, Fulda/Germany: 34 Jewish men and women slain. [DO41]

•1257, 1267: Jewish communities of London, Canterbury, Northampton, Lincoln, Cambridge, and others exterminated. [DO41]

•1290 Bohemia (Poland) allegedly 10,000 Jews killed. [DO41]

•1337 Starting in Deggendorf/Germany a Jew-killing craze reaches 51 towns in Bavaria, Austria, Poland. [DO41]

•1348 All Jews of Basel/Switzerland and Strasbourg/France (two thousand) burned. [DO41]

•1349 In more than 350 towns in Germany all Jews murdered, mostly burned alive (in this one year more Jews were killed than Christians in 200 years of ancient Roman persecution of Christians). [DO42]

•1389 In Prag 3,000 Jews were slaughtered. [DO42]

•1391 Seville's Jews killed (Archbishop Martinez leading). 4,000 were slain, 25,000 sold as slaves. [DA454] Their identification was made easy by the brightly colored "badges of shame" that all Jews above the age of ten had been forced to wear.

•1492 In the year Columbus set sail to conquer a New World, more than 150,000 Jews were expelled from Spain, many died on their way: 6/30/1492. [MM470-476]

•1648 Chmielnitzki massacres: In Poland about 200,000 Jews were slain. [DO43]

And that's not even half of it. No - Christians are not bad. People are bad. I apologize for no evil person.

Happy Birthday Jesus! Merry Christmas everyone!

mel  posted on  2009-12-12   0:06:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: mel, liberator (#19)
(Edited)

Mel: And that's not even half of it. No - Christians are not bad. People are bad. I apologize for no evil person.
Tater: Yes, It is unfortunate, but there are extremists in every group.
Liberator: Yes ... in 99% of the cases, the "extremists" wreaking havoc ... happen to be MUSLIM.

Terrorism can be defined as simply an extreme form of political expression. Given that terrorist attacks occur most often in countries which have despotic regimes, or in which no other form of political protest is available, these people use the only means they can of getting their point across. To some, terrorism is even an acceptable form of political expression when there is no other option available. There are many instances where people arbitrarily label those terrorists who support our value systems to be heroes, while those who oppose our value systems are just dogs murdering innocent people. The complete hypocrisy of this view means that there can be no choice of condemnation when we realize that terrorism is an expression of beliefs, whether we like it or not, and that numerous countries, considered "good" by our current value paradigm have been founded through terrorist actions.

A partial list of designated terrorist organizations is presented below – Point out one Muslim group among them:

Communist Party of India (Maoist); Communist Party of the Philippines/New People's Army; Continuity Irish Republican Army; Cumann na mBan; All Tripura Tiger Force; Babbar Khalsa; Babbar Khalsa International; Baluchistan Liberation Army; Communist Party of the Philippines/New People's Army; Continuity Irish Republican Army; Khmer Rouge/The Party of Democratic Kampuchea; Manuel Rodriguez Patriotic Front (FPMR); National Liberation Army (ELN)— Colombia; Zviadists; Revolutionary Nuclei (RN) a.k.a. Revolutionary Cells; Revolutionary Organization 17 November (17 November); Revolutionary People's Struggle (ELA); Morzanist Patriotic Front (FPM); Kach and Kahane Chai; Aum Supreme Truth (Aum) a.k.a. Aum Shinrikyo, Aleph; Chukaku-Ha (Nucleus or Middle Core Faction); Japanese Red Army (JRA) a.k.a. Anti-Imperialist International Brigade (AIIB); Continuity Irish Republican Army (CIRA) a.k.a. Continuity Army Council; h Republican Army (IRA) a.k.a. Provisional Irish Republican Army (PIRA), the Provos; Loyalist Volunteer Force (LVF); Real IRA (RIRA) a.k.a. True IRA; Red Hand Defenders (RHD); Sendero Luminoso (Shining Path); Tupac Amaru Revolutionary Movement (MRTA); Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG); Alex Boncayao Brigade (ABB); New People's Army (NPA); Army for the Liberation of Rwanda (ALIR), a.k.a. Interahamwe, Former Armed Forces (ex-FAR); Revolutionary United Front (RUF); Qibla and People Against Gangsterism and Drugs (PAGAD); Basque Fatherland and Liberty (ETA), a.k.a. Euzkadi Ta Askatasuna; First of October Antifascist Resistance Group (GRAPO), Grupo de Resistencia Anti-Fascista Premero de Octubre; Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) Other known front organizations: World Tamil Association (WTA), World Tamil Movement (WTM), the Federation of Associations of Canadian Tamils (FACT), the Ellalan Force, the Sangilian Force; Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK); Revolutionary People's Liberation Party/Front (DHKP/C) a.k.a. Devrimci Sol (Revolutionary Left), Dev Sol ... the list goes on … on … and on ... AND ON …

OriginalGatlin  posted on  2009-12-12   5:24:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: Tater (#20)

Terrorism can be defined as simply an extreme form of political expression.

Weekly Jihad Report

Nov 28 - Dec 04 Jihad Attacks: 24

Dead Bodies: 144

Critically Injured: 295

What's the difference between Racism_Boot's mouth and anal pore? There isn't any, they both spew gas and feces.

Ibluafartsky  posted on  2009-12-12   5:33:21 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Ibluafartsky (#21) (Edited)

Terrorism can be defined as simply an extreme form of political expression.

Weekly Jihad Report

Nov 28 - Dec 04 Jihad Attacks: 24

Dead Bodies: 144

Critically Injured: 295

Terrorism is defined by political scientists as the use of politically- motivated violence against civilians.

Terrorism is not supposed to mean "violence against the state" and certainly not "violence against soldiers." It technically also doesn't mean violence directed against military targets where civilians are also hurt/killed.

Using "terrorism" as a specific term is becoming less and less meaningful - however, there doesn't seem to be a good replacement term.

OriginalGatlin  posted on  2009-12-12   6:01:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Tater (#22)

Using "terrorism" as a specific term is becoming less and less meaningful

It has become "indiscriminate slaughter of men, women and children" because of religious fanaticism.

What's the difference between Racism_Boot's mouth and anal pore? There isn't any, they both spew gas and feces.

Ibluafartsky  posted on  2009-12-12   7:08:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Ibluafartsky (#23) (Edited)

It has become "indiscriminate slaughter of men, women and children" because of religious fanaticism.

Are you clubbing Terrorism with Religion?

I am simply making an attempt to throw open my concerns about what the world is leading to. Some mass scale violence these days can of course be linked to some religion or ethnic group. But terrorism is not singularily a product of religious fanaticism.

The term "terrorism" means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by sub-national groups or clandestine agents usually intended to influence an audience.

All terrorist acts are motivated by two things.

First, terrorist acts are motivated by social and political injustice. This is to say that people choose terrorism when they perceive or realize a social, political or historical wrong and they are trying to right the wrong.

Secondly, the belief that violence or its threat will be effective, and usher in change is also a motivating factor behind terrorist acts. Another way of saying this is to say that the belief that violent means justify the ends.

History has shown that many terrorists sincerely chose violence after long deliberation, because they felt they had no choice.

Terrorism can only be countered through constructive efforts on the part of all the political machinery and religious body in the World.

Am I making any sense? This is really basic stuff.

OriginalGatlin  posted on  2009-12-12   7:40:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Gater, Tater (#14)

Tater-Tot: "Let’s see, I am thinking for instance of the so-called “Army of God” in the U.S. which condones the killing of medical personnel who are involved in abortions."

Bullshit.........And just how many Medical professionals have been murdered in the name of stopping abortions.

Great response to Tater-Tot's 100% pure bullsh*t.

Come on Tater - where's the citation of your dopey assertion??

Aaahh, could it be NO WHERE?

FAIL.

Liberator  posted on  2009-12-12   12:41:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Tater (#15)

99% – Where did you get that statistic?

The number is obviously high, but that high?

The statistic is artificial LOW if anything. It's probably closer to 99.997%

Did you just make up that number?

No, it's according to any Muslim Terrorist Mosque scorecard. They get pissed when the stats falls below 99%.

I will say that their practice of ungodly politics is usually thinly veiled under an obvious and unfortunate façade of counterfeit spiritualism, while the inconsistency of their action and depravity of spirit contradict their endless claims of godliness.

Thank you, Professor. I agree with your assessment that Islam is indeed a Cult of Satanic Loons.

Liberator  posted on  2009-12-12   12:48:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Tater (#20)

More people have died at the hands of the non-religious than all religions combined.

That is a great list you have found. It is easy to say the atrocities of today are all carried out by Muslims. That's whatthe Government and media have trained people to believe. It's funny that they always talk about not trusting the Government or the media but they seem to believe many things we are told by them. This world is going to hell, as with most of the people in it.

Happy Birthday Jesus! Merry Christmas everyone!

mel  posted on  2009-12-12   13:13:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: mel_living (#19)

According to the Qur'an, Muslims are to accept other religions and live in peace among them. Just as there are those who call themselves Christians who do not follow God's commands, there are those who call themselves Muslims who do not follow Allah's commands.

You know - combining Grampa's cough syrup with desert shrooms MIGHT be an excuse for your advocacy as a Muslim Apologist, but I know better; You're even more a dopey airhead than ever imagined.

Those much-ballyhooed "religion" classes didn't help you much.

The doctrine of Jesus Christ does NOT condone murder, violence, and conversion by the sword IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST...Never did; Never will.

Now on the otherhand, what's done "In The Name of Allah" is quite the different story.

What DID you "learn" at those classes, Genius? (hint: get a refund)

That you've managed to cut & paste an historical "Christian atrocities" time-chart is supposed to be impressive as a counter-point for Islam's murderous Cult? Hilarious and pathetic as the same time.

Let's see - you've rolled back the Time Machine back to....350 years ago? Then back to 300 A.D.? What a dumbass. Tribes and humans have been murdering each other before that since....FOREVER.

But comparing the last "violent Christian" events of 350 YEARS AGO to contemporary Islam ?? HA!! And you'd citing no one BUT Christians?? Fraud.

Why don't you cut and paste recent history of Islam, you pathetic Muslim Apologist? AND the verses of Islam condoning and demanding murder, harm AND submission to those who do not yield to Islam. IN THE LAST 50 YEARS, Bimbo.

Geez - my bathroom doorknob has more intellect than you. And honesty. And integrity.

Liberator  posted on  2009-12-12   13:21:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Tater Tot, Gater (#20)

Whether we like it or not, and that numerous countries, considered "good" by our current value paradigm have been founded through terrorist actions.

Thank you, Abdul for the civics lesson.

A partial list of designated terrorist organizations is presented below – Point out one Muslim group among them...

Yeah - you're right - what are we thinkin'?? ISLAM is actually a "Religion of Peace."

Oh...Which of the above groups do you and mel belong to or have you both converted to the 'Religion of Peace'?

P.S. - Didn't you claim “Army of God” was a terrorist group as well in an earlier post? You know - the one in which you describes it as one "in the U.S. which condones the killing of medical personnel who are involved in abortions"?

Liberator  posted on  2009-12-12   13:30:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: mel, all (#27)

It is easy to say the atrocities of today are all carried out by Muslims.

No, it's IMPOSSIBLE to say otherwise. UNLESS one is hitting Grampa's cough syrup, dopey, or brainwashed. At the same time.

That's whatthe Government and media have trained people to believe.

Huh? We've ALL been brainwashed by gubmint?? And MSNBC? You mean Allah IS "good"??

MUSLIM ZOMBIE APOLOGIST ALERT!!

Liberator  posted on  2009-12-12   13:35:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Liberator (#25)

... where's the citation ...

Why waste my time, you will only attack the messenger and not debate the message – After all, that is your modus operandi

However, since it appears that you want to play Jeopardy - Okay, I’ll take the Bible for One Thousand, Alex ...

The Bible for One Thousand: Can you find at least 10 verses from the bible that pertain to killing non believers, even killing your own family member if they don’t believe in Jesus Christ.

Liberator, are there at least 10 verses (and probably more) in the bible that pertain to killing non believers, even killing your own family member if they don’t believe in Jesus? Your Turn . . .

OriginalGatlin  posted on  2009-12-12   14:07:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Liberator (#26)

99% – Where did you get that statistic? The number is obviously high, but that high?

The statistic is artificial LOW if anything. It's probably closer to 99.997%

Did you just make up that number?

No, it's according to any Muslim Terrorist Mosque scorecard. They get pissed when the stats falls below 99%.

You just proved how little people like you want to hear other people's opinions, but rather just want to hand out blanket dismissals.

OriginalGatlin  posted on  2009-12-12   14:10:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Tater (#32)

You just proved how little people like you want to hear other people's opinions, but rather just want to hand out blanket dismissals.

Any cursory perusal of this thread is evidence of your disingenuous and intellectual dishonesty.

Your dismissal of common sense is also duly noted.

Liberator  posted on  2009-12-12   14:19:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: mel (#27)

... It is easy (for some folks) to say the atrocities of today are all carried out by Muslims ...

... and will forever deny that actually not all terrorists are Muslim.

If you look through history many others have committed terror attacks. Oklahoma City, just to name one. And one cannot and should not forget the IRA they were responsible for quite a few bombings one of the worst was Omagh that killed many out shopping.

So, yes, your statement is correct - it is not just Muslims, you know.

OriginalGatlin  posted on  2009-12-12   14:20:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Tater (#31)

Are there at least 10 verses (and probably more) in the bible that pertain to killing non believers, even killing your own family member if they don’t believe in Jesus? Your Turn . . .

Is it Happy Hour so soon?

Your turn, Tater-Tot.

Liberator  posted on  2009-12-12   14:22:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Tater (#34)

...[People] will forever deny that actually not all terrorists are Muslim.

Hey Tots - Have you forgotten that I gave a margin of .03-1% of terrorists that might NOT be Muslim?

Liberator  posted on  2009-12-12   14:25:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Liberator, mel (#28)

The doctrine of Jesus Christ does NOT condone murder, violence, and conversion by the sword IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST...Never did; Never will.

Ahem ... Liberator -

It is quite obvious that you are a student of the Bible. Therefore, please explain the meaning of the following quoted versus and scriptures.

(I think it's pretty clear … that it's not a full-blown research effort yet, but more of a quick bit of analysis to check your hypothesis).

I am in no hurry, take your time – I can wait for this …

Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)

Kill Followers of Other Religions.
If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)

Kill Homosexuals
"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)

Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)

Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB) 2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill False Prophets
If a man still prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall say to him, "You shall not live, because you have spoken a lie in the name of the Lord." When he prophesies, his parents, father and mother, shall thrust him through. (Zechariah 13:3 NAB)

Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God
Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night
But if this charge is true (that she wasn't a virgin on her wedding night), and evidence of the girls virginity is not found, they shall bring the girl to the entrance of her fathers house and there her townsman shall stone her to death, because she committed a crime against Israel by her unchasteness in her father's house. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst. (Deuteronomy 22:20-21 NAB)

OriginalGatlin  posted on  2009-12-12   14:31:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Tater, Liberator (#37)

What Liberator and the other thumpers will come back with is that "Those are from the Old Testament so they don't count." But remember, so did the Ten Commandments, so should we discount them as well because they're in the Old Testament?

What's the difference between Sarah Palin's mouth and other parts of her body? Only some of the things that don't come out of her mouth are retarded.

Racism_Boot  posted on  2009-12-12   14:35:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Tater (#37)

Nice try, Tots, but THIS was your original claim:

"The Bible for One Thousand: Can you find at least 10 verses from the bible that pertain to killing non believers, even killing your own family member if they don’t believe in Jesus Christ.

Tick...tick...tick...

Liberator  posted on  2009-12-12   14:36:58 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Liberator (#33)

Any cursory perusal of this thread is evidence of your disingenuous and intellectual dishonesty.

Your dismissal of common sense is also duly noted.

And after I studied your comments history before engaging in a discussion with you, It was easily evident for me to observe that you have problems with your overt bias - continually posting a bunch of tripe, on which I have called you out.

OriginalGatlin  posted on  2009-12-12   14:39:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: Liberator (#39)

The Bible for One Thousand: Can you find at least 10 verses from the bible that pertain to killing non believers, even killing your own family member if they don’t believe in Jesus Christ.

These loons still trying to push this same nutty BS.Dont you know the "Insane Murder Cult" known as Islam is just misunderstood and misrepresented.

Gater  posted on  2009-12-12   14:42:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: Liberator, Mel (#30)

Mel framed a well constructed debate, and you bashed her.

You started by calling her an Airhead, a Muslim Apologist and then continued with other name calling.

You bash liberals for going nuts when they rant, sure, but then when a conservative writes a well thought out post - all you can say or do is to counter her posts with name calling.

Nobody is ever going to accept what you have to say if you're constantly disrespecting people.

OriginalGatlin  posted on  2009-12-12   14:50:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Liberator, Mel (#42)

If you stop and think about it, labeling someone: Airhead, Teach, Muslim Apologist, Professor - isn't a good substitute for thinking critically about it issue by issue.

If I stop and think about it - I guess in your case it is, Liberator.

OriginalGatlin  posted on  2009-12-12   15:02:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: Gater (#41)

These loons still trying to push this same nutty BS.Dont you know the "Insane Murder Cult" known as Islam is just misunderstood and misrepresented.

Of course...

NO difference in any religions because they ALL engage in terrorism...

And let's especially NOT forget that "Islam is a Religion of Peace."

Liberator  posted on  2009-12-12   15:03:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: Liberator (#44)

Faith in God gives life meaning and direction for millions of people. But some people often express their desires and goals - and also their anger in religious terms. It is most unfortunate that religion, like patriotism can also be misused for political purposes. Recognizing this, it is therefore important to see politics and religion as distinct and separate dimensions of our lives.

Extremists seeking to find arguments for persecution or a holy war can misuse religions. This has been shown again and again throughout history. We have seen it in Christianity in the form of the Medieval Crusades and through the persecution of non-Christian right up to our own times.

Religion is often used as a unifying force against occupation and social injustice. And in these cases, the enemy is often portrayed as an “unbeliever”. But I believe that these instances of misuse are more a question of local culture and political environment than of religion.

You approach appears one which is always coming to condemn. Instead of always coming to condemn, perhaps if you try to understand the causes, then you will not come to accuse a culture or another, but you will come to change the very roots of violence in history.

After all, is it not better to change the roots of violence than it is to just condemn it?

OriginalGatlin  posted on  2009-12-12   15:05:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: Tater (#42)

Mel framed a well constructed debate, and you bashed her.

You started by calling her an Airhead, a Muslim Apologist and then continued with other name calling.

"Well framed"? LOL - yeah, like a rickety tent pitched at the edge of a cliff.

Can you refute any of my observations?

Or is the truth verboten by you and your fellow history revisionists, Leftists, and Muslim apologists?

Liberator  posted on  2009-12-12   15:06:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: Tater (#45)

Is it not better to change the roots of violence than it is to just condemn it?

Great idea.

How do we change the evil "roots" of Islam?

Liberator  posted on  2009-12-12   15:08:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: Liberator (#36)

Have you forgotten that I gave a margin of .03-1% of terrorists that might NOT be Muslim?

And whom would you include in that .03-1%?

Hmm ...

Who created Osama bin Laden?

Was it America in order to fight the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan?

Hmm ...

Sure uh huh ok

OriginalGatlin  posted on  2009-12-12   15:11:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Tater (#42)

Nobody is ever going to accept what you have to say if you're constantly disrespecting people.

I disrespect ALL who apologize for Islam and its Cult of Death.

I suspect you respect ALL "religions" and "cultures" and refuse to discriminate or differentiate between good and evil. Why do I know that? Because you are an moral relativist and consider yourself a "global citizen".

Liberator  posted on  2009-12-12   15:14:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: Liberator (#47)

Great idea.

How do we change the evil "roots" of Islam?

Grasshopper ...

Would it not be better to change the evil "roots" of terrorism?

This would be a difficult task for you since you are obviously so attached to your particular point of view that you leave no alternative and cut yourself off from the opportunity of experiencing a different viewpoint that can possibly be more empowering to you?

OriginalGatlin  posted on  2009-12-12   15:15:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: Liberator (#49)

I suspect you respect ALL "religions" and "cultures" and refuse to discriminate or differentiate between good and evil. Why do I know that? Because you are an moral relativist and consider yourself a "global citizen".

You don’t know me and you have no basis for this assertion – all you want to do is argue for the sake of arguing.

Heated arguments are purely ego driven and one does not need to argue if one does not want to.

While there will always be some disagreements, there is no need for heated ego-driven arguments and one does not have to let them happen.

When one simply lets go of that need, then one saves so much stress and anger thereby allowing that energy to be used in much more productive ways.

OriginalGatlin  posted on  2009-12-12   15:20:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: Tater (#50)

Grasshopper ...

Would it not be better to change the evil "roots" of terrorism?

I agree...

But who's going to volunteer to "change" the words of the Koran?

Liberator  posted on  2009-12-12   15:21:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: Liberator (#46)

Can you refute any of my observations?

Explaining a point of view can be done in many ways.

One way is simply to give a written opinion wherein the words should be chosen carefully in a tone that should be one of gentleness.

I am making every attempt to do just that - What are you doing?

OriginalGatlin  posted on  2009-12-12   15:23:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: Liberator (#52)

But who's going to volunteer to "change" the words of the Koran?

You will be quite surprised at how a shift in your perspective reduces your overall anxiety and enables you to achieve more ... and achieve it happily.

OriginalGatlin  posted on  2009-12-12   15:26:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: Tater (#51)

You don’t know me and you have no basis for this assertion...

Sure I do. Connecting a few dots isn't difficult at all.

While there will always be some disagreements, there is no need for heated ego-driven arguments and one does not have to let them happen. When one simply lets go of that need, then one saves so much stress and anger thereby allowing that energy to be used in much more productive ways.

If one allows lies and propaganda to go on without refutation or disinfection, it's stench of intellectual rot may permeate some of blogosphere. Is that fair to the pods or easily-swayed space cadets?

It must be nice to escape into an alternative reality. Seriously - I admire that about you.

Liberator  posted on  2009-12-12   15:28:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: Liberator (#55)

Reaction creates the notion of “dislike,” or hate, which blocks our eyes, mind and heart from focusing on anything but the negative.

OriginalGatlin  posted on  2009-12-12   15:31:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: Tater (#53)

Explaining a point of view can be done in many ways.

One way is simply to give a written opinion wherein the words should be chosen carefully in a tone that should be one of gentleness.

Gee, I'd love to treat disingenuous airheads, Muslim apologists, and propaganda tools with kid-gloves, but sometimes it's just not possible.

Unfortunately, war is never a "gentle" process.

Liberator  posted on  2009-12-12   15:32:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: Tater (#56)

Reaction creates the notion of “dislike,” or hate, which blocks our eyes, mind and heart from focusing on anything but the negative.

What's "positive" then about Islam?

Liberator  posted on  2009-12-12   15:33:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: Tater (#24)

terrorism is not singularily a product of religious fanaticism.

Then maybe Islam shouldn't be seen as a legitimate religion. The terrorism generated by it is worldwide, not localized or regionalized.

What's the difference between Racism_Boot's mouth and anal pore? There isn't any, they both spew gas and feces.

Ibluafartsky  posted on  2009-12-12   15:35:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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