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U.S. Constitution Title: Supreme Court Won't Hear Case, But Justice Thomas Questions Constitutionality Of Asset Forfeiture from the about-freaking-time deptWe've been writing about the sheer insanity of asset forfeiture for many, many years. If you happen to have missed it, civil asset forfeiture is the process by which the government can just take your stuff by arguing that it must have been the proceeds of criminal activity. They literally file a lawsuit against your stuff, not you. And, here's the real kicker: in most places, they never have to file any lawsuits about the actual crime, let alone get a conviction. They just get to take your stuff, say that it must have been the proceeds of a crime, and unless you go through the insanely expensive and burdensome process of demanding it back, they effectively get to walk off with your stuff. Law enforcement has literally referred to the process as going shopping. Most people who understand what's going on recognize that it's just state-sponsored theft. I'm constantly amazed to find people who simply don't believe civil asset forfeiture could possibly work the way it does. The whole process is so crazy and so lacking in basic due process, that many people literally find it unbelievable. And while some states have moved towards requiring a criminal conviction to keep the stuff, many don't have that, and our President and Attorney General are huge fans of civil asset forfeiture -- so it's unlikely to change any time soon. That is, unless the courts get involved. While the Supreme Court on Monday declined to hear an appeal on yet another egregious case of civil asset forfeiture, Justice Clarence Thomas issued an accompanying statement suggesting that he's having trouble understanding how civil asset forfeiture could possibly be legal in its current form. The case in question is egregious, but not all that unlike many other cases we've written about. People travelling with a large sum of cash (for a perfectly legit reason) are stripped of the cash by law enforcement who doesn't believe their reasons -- and then never files any criminal charges or anything, but just takes off with the cash:
Of course, no criminal charges were ever filed against any of the individuals related to this. The government just took the money. The lower courts all sided with law enforcement, and now the case had a chance to go before the Supreme Court. Unfortunately, it passed on the case (as it does with most petitions), but Thomas is clearly troubled by all of this:
From there, Justice Thomas looks through the historic rationale that has allowed these laws to remain on the books, and finds some problems, especially concerning how differently the law is being used, and the general conflation among some of the criminal procedures and civil procedures:
Unfortunately, for procedural reasons (the people who had their money seized didn't challenge the constitutionality at the lower courts and only did so after losing), the Supreme Court has to reject this case. However, Thomas' pretty clear message is that at least one sitting Justice is very troubled with the idea that civil asset forfeiture as practiced today in many states (and by the federal government) could possibly be considered constitutional. Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Pointless and worthless article … Supreme Court Won't Hear Case, But Justice Thomas Questions Constitutionality Of Asset ForfeitureWell, he may “question” it as long as he wishes to … But nothing will change and asset forfeiture will remain legal until the SCOTUS hears the case and Thomas has 4 other Justices agree with him that it should be illegal. Got it ...
#2. To: Deckard (#0) Very glad to see the USSC is getting some sanity from Thomas! Anyone who thinks Civil Asset Forfeiture is okay should just campaign for the repeal of the 4th Amendment.
#3. To: Pinguinite (#2) Very glad to see the USSC is getting some sanity from Thomas!Uh, exactly what sanity are they getting from Thomas? The headline reads: Supreme Court Won't Hear CaseWhere did Thomas’ sanity change anything?
#4. To: Pinguinite (#2) Clarence Thomas is the best supreme court justice we have.
#5. To: Gatlin (#3) Uh, exactly what sanity are they getting from Thomas? That it is morally and constitutionally incorrect to seize assets prior to a conviction.
#6. To: A K A Stone (#5) Uh, exactly what sanity are they getting from Thomas? That it is morally and constitutionally incorrect to seize assets prior to a conviction. I'd word it this way:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
#7. To: A K A Stone (#4) Clarence Thomas is the best supreme court justice we have. Yes, true even when Scalia was still there. The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party![]() #8. To: A K A Stone (#4) (Edited)
Clarence Thomas is the best supreme court justice we have. That is absolutely CORRECT! I don’t understand what his questioning the constitutionality of asset forfeiture has to do with: Supreme Court Won't Hear Case. Obviously I worded my question incorrectly …
#9. To: A K A Stone (#5) " That it is morally and constitutionally incorrect to seize assets prior to a conviction. " I would thoroughly agree! Otherwise it is just plain simple theft by thieves with badges. They are just common thieves. Not conducive to an orderly society with respect for law & order. Those that advocate such policy believe in " Might Makes Right ". They should be deeply ashamed for advocating simple theft. They are morally bankrupt, & intellectually empty! That is very similar to the Waffen SS, they just took what they wanted, and got away with it because they had superior force. At the time. That type of thinking & activity will not end well ! Si vis pacem, para bellum
Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.
There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."Theodore Roosevelt-1907. I am concerned for the security of our great nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within." -- General Douglas MacArthur #10. To: A K A Stone (#8) This is a much better written article….JMO: Clarence Thomas Condemns Civil Asset Forfeiture, Points to 'Egregious and Well-Chronicled Abuses' Justice Thomas says SCOTUS should review the constitutionality of asset forfeiture in a future case. Damon Root|Mar. 6, 2017 10:55 am Today the U.S. Supreme Court declined to hear a case filed by a Texas woman who says that her due process rights were violated when the police seized over $200,000 in cash from her family despite the fact that no one has been convicted of any underlying crime associated with the money. Unfortunately, thanks to the state's sweeping civil asset forfeiture laws, the authorities were permitted to take the money of this innocent woman. The Supreme Court offered no explanation today for its refusal to hear the case of Lisa Olivia Leonard v. Texas. But one member of the Court did speak up. In a statement respecting the denial of certiorari in the case, Justice Clarence Thomas made it clear that he believes the current state of civil asset forfeiture law is fundamentally unconstitutional. "This system—where police can seize property with limited judicial oversight and retain it for their own use—has led to egregious and well-chronicled abuses," Thomas declared. Furthermore, he wrote, the Supreme Court's previous rulings on the matter are starkly at odds with the Constitution, which "presumably would require the Court to align its distinct doctrine governing civil forfeiture with its doctrines governing other forms of punitive state action and property deprivation." Those other doctrines, Thomas noted, impose significant checks on the government, such as heightened standards of proof, various procedural protections, and the right to a trial by jury. Civil asset forfeiture proceedings, by contrast, offer no such constitutional safeguards for the rights of person or property. But because Lisa Olivia Leonard "raises her due process arguments for the first time in this Court," Thomas concluded, the Supreme Court has no business weighing in until the lower court has properly considered those arguments first. That's bad news for Lisa Olivia Leonard. But there is a silver lining for all critics of civil asset forfeiture. When the right case does finally come along, Justice Thomas insisted today, SCOTUS should tackle the unconstitutional practice head on.
#11. To: A KA Stone (#10) (Edited)
From the article posted….the subject of this thread: Supreme Court Won't Hear Case, But Justice Thomas Questions Constitutionality Of Asset Forfeiture From the article I posted on this thread:
Clarence Thomas Condemns Civil Asset Forfeiture, Points to 'Egregious and Well-Chronicled Abuses' Did you read both articles….carefully? Do you see the difference? You can do so simply by reading just the first three lines of each article. Both of the articles were same equally accessible….yet the first was chosen to post rather than the second. Do you see why someone would post the first article instead of the second article….understanding the underlying reactional intent and the way the first article wanted to channel collective reactive thinking? And it did. Do you see that the first article is agenda driven? It is so blatantly obvious that it is, if you are reading for intent. But if you are not looking for it, the plant is insidious….sowing seeds of thought in a gradual, subtle way [although not to subtle here]. but with intentional harmful effects. Meanwhile the second article was both objective and informative. The first article USED Judge Thomas’s respected name to case reflection on the SCOTUS and implant a bad reaction…while the second article suggested future action of a corrective nature. The second article was ALL about Thomas expressing his clear thinking to establish his desired position. Propaganda [sometimes referred to as fake news or yellow journalism] is information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, slanted and used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view….information deliberately spread to help in promoting an agenda or harm a person, group, movement, institution, nation, etc. One should always remember what propaganda is and constantly strive to recognize it. Where am I wrong and were the facts in headline of the first article scrambled to be misleading….as my question suggested?
#12. To: Gatlin, A K A Stone (#11) (Edited) Will your incessant whining never end? Good grief man, what is your problem? The story I posted was completely factual - it was written from a perspective that you dislike - too freaking bad. Deal with it and stop trying to mold this forum into a site that caters to your whims. Imagine that - Tech Dirt a fake news propaganda site! Your insanity continues unabated. “Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul![]() Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.#13. To: Deckard (#0) People travelling with a large sum of cash (for a perfectly legit reason) are stripped of the cash by law enforcement who doesn't believe their reasons -- and then never files any criminal charges or anything, but just takes off with the cash As I said before, when you carry more cash, NEVER mention this on phone or in e-mail or any Internet interface including chat. Otherwise expect them to wait for you.
#14. To: Deckard (#12) Will your incessant whining never end? Good grief man, what is your problem? I'm with you on this one dexter.
#15. To: A K A Stone (#14) Gatlin wants to turn this site into an echo chamber where only articles in sync with his warped world-view are allowed and only sources that he alone approves of can be used. This is the same guy who posts articles from leftist sites like the SPLC, articles that malign patriotic groups like Oathkeepers and also one notable instance where he posted from a hard-core communist site. And this assclown wants to be the sole arbiter of what is and isn't fake news? “Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul![]() Those who most loudly denounce Fake News are typically those most aggressively disseminating it.#16. To: Deckard (#15) with his warped world-view are allowed and only sources that he alone approves of can be used. Yet you still post any article you want. You say anything you want. Without ever a single censor from me. I'm pretty sure I've never censored you or given you any ban for any comment whatsoever. The source in contention the other day. Has been shown by Gatlin and others to omit stuff at times. That isn't disputable. But guess what you can still post from there. Carry on infowarrior.
#17. To: Deckard (#15) Oathkeepers I have negative thoughts when I hear that name. Maybe it was the promise keepers that I'm thinking of. But I remember something negative.
#18. To: Deckard, Gatlin (#15) And this assclown wants to be the sole arbiter of what is and isn't fake news? He has his opinion and defends it. As you do. He does tweek you sometimes by saying he is the smartest or best looking or something. You can be assured that he errs in those descriptions of himself. For I am the smartest and best looking.
#19. To: A K A Stone (#18) That was funny ...
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