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Title: In Donald Trump's America, Freedom From Due-Process Constraints
Source:
Reason
URL Source: https://reason.com/archives/2016/07 ... addam-and-presumption-innocent
Published: Jul 10, 2016
Author: Sheldon Richman
Post Date: 2016-07-11 09:52:03 by Deckard
Keywords: None
Views: 1207
Comments: 13
The horrifying thing about Trump's recent remarks about Saddam Hussein is not that he expressed admiration for the late Iraqi dictator—in fact Trump called him a "bad guy" three times. What is horrifying is that Trump seemed envious that Saddam could "kill terrorists" without due process—the most important element of which is the presumption of innocence, which places the burden of proof of guilt squarely on the government's shoulders. "He killed terrorists" Trump said of Saddam. "He did that so good. They didn't read them the rights. They didn't talk." (Emphasis added.) This should concern any Trump fans who believe that criminal suspects should be protected against the state. Trump was clearly signaling that he wants the government (which of course he aspires to run) to have the power to kill people suspected of planning or having committed politically motivated violence against noncombatants. Let's be clear: Trump wasn't endorsing capital punishment for convicted terrorists. (I ignore here the objections to state executions.) He was praising the killing of suspected terrorists without charge or trial in which the prosecution has the burden of proof. Dictators always find due process an obstacle to efficient and decisive action against threats real and imagined. But Americans supposedly believe that the rights of the accused are more important than the state's convenience. The securing of due process was the result of a nearly thousand-year struggle against western tyrants. It is certainly true that due process has been badly eroded, especially since 9/11. But this is the first time I can recall a presidential candidate celebrating a dictator's freedom from due-process constraints at a campaign rally. This certainly distinguishes Trump from his predecessors and opponents. That the throng, wearing their "Make America Great Again" caps, responded enthusiastically is ominous indeed. Trump's remarks are consistent with his earlier expressions of admiration for the "strength" of despots such as North Korea's Kim Jung Un and the Chinese rulers who slaughtered pro-democracy protesters in Tienanmen Square. The remarks also flesh out his promise to use water-boarding and more against terrorism suspects and his belief that the families of suspects should also be killed. Throughout his campaign Trump has shown impatience with procedures that brake government activity. He often bashes politicians who are "all talk and no action." So his envy of dictators should surprise no one. 
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#1. To: Deckard (#0)
Horrifying because Trump proposed it. But not horrifying when Obama actually does it with drones.
Horrifying because Trump proposed it. But not horrifying when Obama actually does it with drones. It all depends on if we assume that Trump was making the point that a state leader should do that to his own country's citizens(as Saddam did) , or do it to others in other countries(as with the drones), as in war. Trump trying to be cute was vague about this distinction(so he could say he was just kidding again if it backfired).
Since Trump referenced Saddam killing terrorists without due process, I'm going to go out on a limb and say Trump was referring to our country killing terrorists without due process. As Obama is doing with drones, U.S. citizen or not.
It is a short distance from killing suspected terrorists in a foriegn country to killing them at home, drones are very convenient, it is all a game. You have a Phillipine president who advocotes summary execution of drug dealers, how is it Dump hasn't signed on with him? or is that next weeks big mouth scoup?
What a load of crap. In a dictatorship, such as Saddam Hussein's dictatorship ... there is no "due process."
Correct. And that's what Trump said.
Suspected terrorists? Trump said nothing about suspected terrorists. Why are you changing the narrative?
because the prejorative "terrorists" is a subjective judgement, we know them by their acts but usually after the event
Correct. And that's when we kill them.
How many have you killed?
I said "we". Just as you did.
simple question use tthe collective we and put a number on it
You don't want names and dates, too?
"What is horrifying is that Trump seemed envious that Saddam could "kill terrorists" without due process"
#2. To: misterwhite, Deckard (#1)
"What is horrifying is that Trump seemed envious that Saddam could "kill terrorists" without due process"
#3. To: TrappedInMd (#2)
"It all depends on if we assume that Trump was making the point that a state leader should do that to his own country's citizens"
#4. To: misterwhite (#3)
s Obama is doing with drones, U.S. citizen or not.
#5. To: misterwhite (#3)
Since Trump referenced Saddam killing terrorists without due process,
#6. To: buckeroo (#5)
"In a dictatorship, such as Saddam Hussein's dictatorship ... there is no "due process."
#7. To: paraclete (#4)
"It is a short distance from killing suspected terrorists in a foriegn country to killing them at home"
#8. To: misterwhite (#7)
#9. To: paraclete (#8)
"we know them by their acts but usually after the event"
#10. To: misterwhite (#9)
#11. To: paraclete (#10)
"How many have you killed?"
#12. To: misterwhite (#11)
#13. To: paraclete (#12)
"simple question use tthe collective we and put a number on it"
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