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Title: Jersey Homeowner May Face Jail for Flying Trump Campaign Flag
Source:
NBC 4 New York
URL Source: http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca ... -Flag-Too-Early-374982211.html
Published: Apr 9, 2016
Author: Brian Thompson
Post Date: 2016-04-09 03:40:27 by Hondo68
Keywords: None
Views: 10149
Comments: 56
A New Jersey man who's been flying Donald Trump's campaign flag in front of his home since February could face up to a $2,000 fine or jail time when he faces a judge in the case. Joe Hornick has been flying Trump's "Make America Great Again" flag outside his West Long Branch home on a busy corner near the Monmouth University campus for months. But he got a ticket recently citing him for illegally posting political signage more than 30 days before an election. The New Jersey presidential primary isn't until June 7. "I'm not a football fan, I'm not a sports fan, but I'm surely a Donald Trump fan," he told NBC 4 New York. Hornick actually flies two Trump flags day and night, and lights them up when it gets dark. They've been ripped down five times so far. "Let them come, let them rip those flags down because I have a warehouse on alert, and I'll put up a flag every time they tear one down," he said. Hornick is ready to face a judge. If he loses the flag fight in court. Hornick is prepared to serve the sentence. "I'm not taking the flag down, and if I do 90 days in jail, I'll do 90 days in jail," he said. Hornick says he once saw Trump at a Trump casino but didn't try to greet him. "To be honest with you, I didn't get up because I was at the blackjack table and I was actually trying to rob him," he joked. But that was then, he says, and this is now. And if Trump loses, Hornick says he'll shred his voter registration card and never vote again. And he'll keep flying that flag. Poster Comment: He could help make Jersey great again, by moving to New York. "I'm not a football fan, I'm not a sports fan, but I'm surely a Donald Trump fan," said Joe Hornick
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#1. To: hondo68 (#0)
Good. Unfortunately, he's probably lying. He'll lose this case in court. Unless he can get ACLU or another public-interest legal group to appeal to strike down the law, he won't win on appeal either. Given what NJ is like, I don't see much hope he can prevail on appeal. But I am 100% in favor of him fighting this to the bitter end.
This seems like a straight First Amendment case to me. Political speech, above all other speech, is constitutionally protected. I don't see how a political sign on private property can be restricted to some time period before an election. This seems like a law that's ripe for striking. Of all speech, political speech is the most protected, and this is right across the center of the plate of political speech. Doesn't matter if it's Trump or Mao Tse Tung who's being advocated.
We'll see. The homeowner doesn't look like a typical ACLU client but maybe they'll help him. Being NJ which is historically among the most fascist states in the country, I don't think the state's courts are likely to be sympathetic. This is a case that would have to go federal. It's been almost a century since the mayor of Camden sent cops out to bust protesters for reading the Constitution and Bill of Rights to a crowd in public.
Being NJ which is historically among the most fascist states in the country, I don't think the state's courts are likely to be sympathetic. This is a case that would have to go federal. It's been almost a century since the mayor of Camden sent cops out to bust protesters for reading the Constitution and Bill of Rights to a crowd in public. It's probably not worth the fight for this guy. Still, if it got to the Supremes, I'd expect that it would be about 7-2 that this is constitutionally protected speech. It's kind of pointless speech, but protected. However, to assert the right, the guy has to win.
He's already said it is not a political sign at all. But it has Trump's name and his campaign slogan on it. I don't think most public-interest law firms would want to take on a client like that. His statements are already pretty damaging to any case he might file. But I am 100% in favor of him litigating it all the way to the Supreme Court.
If this fella was a drug addict or career criminal, Deckard would have posted this along with his other pro black lives matter and OWS garbage. But since this constitutionally violated LAW ABIDING CITIZEN is a Trump supporter, Hondope, Huey Deckard and the other agenda posters turn into hypocritical ghosts. I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح
The so called "law" is stupid, and so are his Trumpkin flags. If he were flying BLM or OWS candidate flags, you would have busted him if you could, hypocrite! Hey, you forgot me! Anyway, I doubt the judge(s) are going to be influenced by reading LF. Beyond that, you must know that New Jersey as a state is notorious for its hostility to the Bill of Rights. It always has been.
Probably,but he shouldn't. I know this is a suburb of NYC,but surely they have heard of "Freedom of Speech" up there? BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
I hope the guy is smart enough to start flying a Che,ANC,Cuban,Red Chinese,USSR,Lesbian/Gay/Tranny,or Black Panther flag along side the Trump flag. I can practically guarantee the authorities will not even whisper one more word about it. He would get to win while rubbing their noses in their hypocrisy at the same time. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
More likely if he was Cruz supporter.
He'd likely have to go federal. But if he did, he might get a sympathetic hearing from Trump's sister Elizabeth, who still sits on a federal court in NJ. You recall she was the one who slammed the nails into allowing partial-birth abortion and then Trump wrote about it and how much he supported partial-birth abortion, how his sister should be on the Supreme Court 'cause she is the classiest judge evah, etc.? It's only been about 90 years since the mayor of Camden sent cops out to arrest protesters simply for reading the Bill of Rights, especially the First Amendment on freedom of speech and assembly. It was a landmark civil rights case for the fledgling commies at the ACLU. NJ really is the most fascist of U.S. states.
The decision by her and Alito noted that the Supreme Court had already decided the issue and established binding precedent on the lower court. Odd that you didn't know that.
If I were on the court, I'd force the Supremes to do their own dirty work. Screw them.
Yeah, right.
I've advocated this for a long time. There's nothing the Supremes can do about a federal judge who keeps sending them such cases over and over, despite their previous rulings. Make them do their own dirty work and get the blood on their own hands. What's the worst they can do, scold such a judge in their opinion? Big deal. It would piss off the Supremes to no end but at least they wouldn't be able to tell themselves that the entire judiciary was backing their position on abortion and other issues.
Go fuck yourself, pig-boy. This guy has the right to fly any flag he wants to fly on his own property. That's the difference between you and me - I believe that the First Amendment applies to ALL speech, not just the speech I agree with. If this guy was flying a flag with a pot leaf on it and the phrase "Legalize It!", you'd make the arrest yourself. Fucktard. In a Cop Culture, the Bill of Rights Doesn’t Amount to Much Ad hoc decision making. Why not just put a roulette wheel in the foyer for the parties to spin? Think of the money and time that would be saved.
Oh really? Then why did it take me shaming you over your hypocracy (the fact that you didn't post the article like you would have if it was a quack Paultard being spanked for violating a local ordinance) for you to finally open your Paultard pleaser? I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح
Oh really? That's right. Piss off. Then why did it take me shaming you over your hypocracy... First off - it's "hypocrisy" you inbred. Second - you haven't shamed anyone other than yourself. I didn't post the article so that makes me a hypocrite? With all due respect, you're insane. My record of supporting First Amendment rights for ALL speech is consistent. Yours, not so much. In a Cop Culture, the Bill of Rights Doesn’t Amount to Much Dude, it's New Jersey. The Constitution, Bill of Rights and state laws rarely apply there.
How would you do that? They don't take orders from anyone,and they can't be fired. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Like I keep saying,the NYC/northern NJ area ain't even a part of America. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
HotGas wrote a piece by a guy experienced with campaigns and sign laws and flag laws. Trump supporters frequently comment on how it can be dangerous to publicly support their candidate, with threats of retaliation and public harassment following such proclamations. But the one thing you don’t generally hear about is people being tossed in jail for it. That may wind up being the case in New Jersey, however, where one man has been issued a summons for flying a “Make America Great Again” flag over his home. Failure to remove it could result in a hefty fine or a stretch in the hoosegow. (Reuters) Local officials said the flag violates an ordinance prohibiting the display of political signs more than 30 days ahead of an election and issued him a summons. New Jersey’s primary is on June 7. For weeks, Hornick has displayed the blue flag with Trump’s “Make America Great Again!” campaign slogan on a pole outside his two-story West Long Branch house, at a busy intersection near Monmouth University, in a show of his support for Trump. Trump has been campaigning this week in neighboring New York in an effort to snag the Republican presidential nomination. Something tells me that Mr. Hornick might not be in as much trouble as the media descriptions would indicate. There are a few reasons to suspect that this may turn out to be a case which is either dismissed or successfully challenged and simply ends up getting Trump some additional free publicity. The first point to make is that the article reveals that the homeowner originally said he would comply with the order and take down the flag, but changed his mind after consulting his attorney. Unless his lawyer is a complete idiot, Hornick may have a clear path to stay out of jail. Having worked some congressional campaigns, I can tell you that we had to deal with the various laws regarding political signage and it’s always a mess. There are federal laws in place regarding lawn signs defining of where they can be placed in terms of obstructing traffic and the need for disclosure of the source of the sign. (This applies to signs created and distributed by the campaign or by supporting PACs primarily.) The various states also have some of their own laws along those lines. It’s when you get down to the local, municipal level where you run into trouble. Many towns and cities have laws on the books limiting how far in advance of elections you can put out yard signs. These are largely intended to reduce clutter and prevent obstruction, and they often carry matching instructions for how soon the signs must be taken down after the election is over. But there have been long running questions about whether or not such laws abridge free speech and if the town has the right to limit displays of any kind on the private property of homeowners. Further, these laws typically (at least in our area) have strict descriptions of what constitutes a “sign” and what size it can be, how close to the road or sidewalk, etc. In this case, Mr. Hornick has a flagpole in his yard and he’s flying an actual cloth flag, not posting a sign with a frame driven into the ground. Flagpoles tend to run under an entirely different set of municipal laws and they deal with height and placement questions, not the content of the “message.” We have several neighbors with flagpoles which are permanent installations and they fly various flags all year round. You can always fly the American flag or a POW/MIA banner or even the state flag with no problems. (If you try the Confederate Battle Flag it’s another question.) They also have seasonal flags for the major holidays or the changing of the seasons. None of these are cause to be dragged into court. I’m not sure that this Trump flag would even fall under political signage laws. The municipal ordinances for West Long Branch, New Jersey are available online here and it’s not at all clear there is a violation. The section on signs seems fairly straightforward. As used in this section, the following terms shall have the meanings indicated: Political sign shall mean a sign which directs attention to an issue, issues, candidate or candidates for public consideration in an election, including the name of a political party. Property or parcel shall mean any property other than property which is publicly owned. (Ord. #O-07-15, S 1) 3-19.2 Posting on Public Property and Utility Structures Prohibited. No political sign shall be erected, posted, placed on or attached to any public property, utility pole, traffic sign, street sign, fire hydrant, public telephone booth or similar public fixture. (Ord. #O-07-15, S 2) 3-19.3 Posting on Private Property Restricted. a. No political sign shall be erected, posted or placed on private property without the express consent of the owner, which owner shall then be responsible for compliance with this section. 3-19.4 Time Posting; Removal. a. No political sign shall be displayed sooner than thirty (30) days prior to the date of the election or the decision of the issue is scheduled. So does Mr. Hornick’s flag fall under this? In the definitions section of the municipal codes (18-3) they provide instructions as to various bits of terminology. Here’s what they have to say about signs. (Emphasis added) Does that mean that no flag is included, or no flag specific to public, civic, charitable or religious groups? Hard to say, but clearly the homeowner’s attorney thinks he may have the upper hand on this one. We’ll check back in after it’s resolved, but don’t be surprised if Joseph Hornick has the last laugh. So the homeowner does have some chance to prevail, it seems. If he's willing to go through the whole process and possibly spend a lot of money on his lawyer.
I've had 3 Trump signs stolen. Both of my neighbors also had one each stolen.
I'd just find out who is complaining and slash their tires.
Intent to perform malacious harm to others may be a terrorist act. You should pull your post.
Or put a rock through their windshield.
Property damage and bodily harm are defined, also. You could hurt someone.
Some people deserve to hurt.
Why are you so angry? What did Fred do to you?
Whose Fred? I had a dog named Fred but he died. Best dog ever. Way better than Scruffy.
Scruffy is runnng for US President.
He is one of the long tyme posters of LF. I think his monicker is registered, and is indexed about 35 out of about 700 other posters that don't come back to LF because we have a tyrant (here) that abuses just about everyone. Fred was originally from FR back in 1998. He left and went to LP. He also joined FU where you inticed him to join this chit-chat channel. Little did Fred know that you were going to abuuse him.
I banned Fred for over a year once.
You seem to ban just about everyone. Why are you so angry?
Just people who abuse their privilege to post here. Like Fred for example.
You say that just like it's something to be proud of,and don't have the first clue about how it makes others perceive you. BOYCOTT PAYPAL AND CLOSE YOUR PP ACCOUNTS NOW! ENCOURAGE OTHERS TO DO SO,TOO! ISLAM MEANS SUBMISSION! Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012) American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
It is just a fact. Actually I forgot I banned him.
I doubt that anyone has messed with Fred's Kasich sign. It seems like Stone is jealous of Fred Mertz's security prowess, and too proud to ask the security guru for help after banning him?
Comments (41 - 56) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestAnd if Trump loses, Hornick says he'll shred his voter registration card and never vote again.
#2. To: TooConservative (#1)
#3. To: Vicomte13 (#2)
(Edited)
This seems like a straight First Amendment case to me. Political speech, above all other speech, is constitutionally protected. I don't see how a political sign on private property can be restricted to some time period before an election. This seems like a law that's ripe for striking. Of all speech, political speech is the most protected, and this is right across the center of the plate of political speech.
#4. To: TooConservative (#3)
We'll see. The homeowner doesn't look like a typical ACLU client but maybe they'll help him.
#5. To: Vicomte13 (#4)
It's kind of pointless speech, but protected. However, to assert the right, the guy has to win.
#6. To: hondo68 (#0)
(Edited)
He could help make Jersey great again, by moving to New York.
#7. To: GrandIsland, Deckard, Vicomte13, TooConservative, *Arab Spring Jihad* (#6)
(Edited)
If this fella was a drug addict or career criminal, Deckard would have posted this along with his other pro black lives matter and OWS garbage
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
#8. To: GrandIsland (#6)
But since this constitutionally violated LAW ABIDING CITIZEN is a Trump supporter, Hondope, Huey Deckard and the other agenda posters turn into hypocritical ghosts.
#9. To: TooConservative (#1)
He'll lose this case in court.
#10. To: Vicomte13 (#2)
Doesn't matter if it's Trump or Mao Tse Tung who's being advocated.
#11. To: TooConservative (#1)
Unfortunately, he's probably lying.
#12. To: sneakypete, GrandIsland (#9)
Probably,but he shouldn't. I know this is a suburb of NYC,but surely they have heard of "Freedom of Speech" up there?
#13. To: TooConservative (#12)
she was the one who slammed the nails into allowing partial-birth abortion
#14. To: Roscoe (#13)
#15. To: TooConservative (#14)
I'd force the Supremes to do their own dirty work.
#16. To: Roscoe (#15)
(Edited)
#17. To: GrandIsland (#6)
(Edited)
If this fella was a drug addict or career criminal, Deckard would have posted this along with his other pro black lives matter and OWS garbage
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#18. To: TooConservative (#16)
#19. To: Deckard (#17)
That's the difference between you and me - I believe that the First Amendment applies to ALL speech, not just the speech I agree with.
#20. To: GrandIsland (#19)
That's the difference between you and me - I believe that the First Amendment applies to ALL speech, not just the speech I agree with.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul
Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts
#21. To: GrandIsland (#19)
Oh really? Then why did it take me shaming you over your hypocracy (the fact that you didn't post the article like you would have if it was a quack Paultard being spanked for violating a local ordinance) for you to finally open your Paultard pleaser?
#22. To: TooConservative (#14)
If I were on the court, I'd force the Supremes to do their own dirty work.
#23. To: TooConservative (#21)
Dude, it's New Jersey. The Constitution, Bill of Rights and state laws rarely apply there.
#24. To: sneakypete, GrandIsland, Deckard, Vicomte13, Roscoe, nolu chan (#23)
Jersey man faces possible jail time for Trump flag
Jazz Shaw
Republican presidential hopeful Donald Trump appears to have a passionate supporter in Joseph Hornick, a New Jersey man who faces a $2,000 fine or 90 days in jail for flying a flag emblazoned with the billionaire candidate’s name over his home. 3-19 POLITICAL SIGNS.
3-19.1 Definitions.
b. No sign in excess of six (6) square feet shall be permitted to be placed on grounds or yards (front, rear or side) facing any public street.
c. All such signs must be at least six (6′) feet from the curbline or, if there is no curb, six (6′) feet from the edge of the paved street.
d. No candidate’s name or issue may appear on more than one (1) sign per property.
e. No political sign may be illuminated.
f. Any political sign erected or placed pursuant to this section shall be constructed of such material that it will not readily tear, and shall be affixed so that it will not readily become detached. (Ord. #O-07-15, S 3)
b. Signs shall be removed within five (5) days following said election or date of decision. (Ord. #O-07-15, S 4)Sign shall mean any device, structure or object for visual communication that is used for the purpose of bringing the subject thereto to the attention of others, but not including any flag, badge or insignia of any public, quasi-public, civic, charitable or religious groups.
#25. To: TooConservative (#24)
#26. To: TooConservative (#24)
So the homeowner does have some chance to prevail, it seems. If he's willing to go through the whole process and possibly spend a lot of money on his lawyer.
#27. To: A K A Stone (#26)
I'd just find out who is complaining and slash their tires.
#28. To: buckeroo (#27)
Intent to perform malacious harm to others may be a terrorist act. You should pull your post.
#29. To: A K A Stone (#28)
#30. To: buckeroo (#29)
You could hurt someone.
#31. To: A K A Stone, Fred Mertz (#30)
Some people deserve to hurt.
#32. To: buckeroo (#31)
Some people deserve to hurt. Why are you so angry? What did Fred do to you?
#33. To: A K A Stone (#32)
#34. To: A K A Stone, Fred Mertz (#32)
Whose Fred?
#35. To: buckeroo (#34)
#36. To: A K A Stone (#35)
#37. To: buckeroo (#36)
You seem to ban just about everyone. Why are you so angry?
#38. To: A K A Stone (#35)
I banned Fred for over a year once.
#39. To: sneakypete (#38)
You say that just like it's something to be proud of,and don't have the first clue about how it makes others perceive you.
#40. To: buckeroo, Fred Mertz, homeboy security consultant, A K A Stone (#31)
Why are you so angry? What did Fred do to you?
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
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