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Title: Trump: If abortion is banned, there has to be some form of punishment for women who do it
Source:
HotAir
URL Source: http://hotair.com/archives/2016/03/ ... unishment-for-women-who-do-it/
Published: Mar 30, 2016
Author: Allahpundit
Post Date: 2016-03-30 17:16:58 by Tooconservative
Keywords: None
Views: 53603
Comments: 274
Charles Cooke calls this an ideological Turing test, i.e. a question whose answer reveals how plausible it is that Trump really is who he claims to be. The standard answer from nearly all serious pro-lifers is that it’s the abortionist, not his patient, who should be sanctioned if and when abortion is banned. The March of Life explains why: Ted Cruz, when he’s inevitably asked about this now, will give some variation of that same response. Trump, whom his conservative critics suspect of being an opportunist on abortion rather than committed to the cause, went a different route. You can almost see the wheels turning in his head here: He knows, as a political matter, that he can’t let Cruz get to his right on abortion. Republicans will let him slide on a lot — a lot — but if he gives them reason to think he’s BSing them on an issue at the very core of social conservatism, it could give Cruz the break he needs to take off. And so, when he gets the question from Matthews about what to do with women who insist on having abortions in a hypothetical future where the practice is banned, he goes with his gut — and his gut is “stay to the right.” So … sure, let’s punish women for abortion. This is the message the party’s carrying into the general election against the first woman major-party nominee, huh? By a guy who’s already having major problems polling among women, no less. It’s easy to understand how an amateur would stumble into this answer, writes Matt Lewis, but why would you want to nominate an amateur? Yet these political compromises are necessary in order to cobble together a palatable and defensible (if admittedly inconsistent) public policy position that might someday actually be able to win the argument in mainstream America. Part of the goal is to remove the ability for pro-choicers to demagogue the issue by scaring vulnerable women. Now, thanks to Trump, that’s back on the table. Trump’s already trying to walk it back even though the townhall with Matthews from which this was clipped hasn’t aired yet: — Sarah McCammon NPR (@sarahmccammon) March 30, 2016 Hillary’s already attacking him over it. So is Team Cruz, as you’ll see in the second clip below. Trump can run from it but it’s on tape and every down-ballot Republican will wear it now if he’s the nominee. And the best part, as one Twitter pal said, is that Trump will eventually (“eventually” as in “probably within the next few hours”) deny that he ever said it to begin with. Still think this is all part of a master strategy or could it be that he really is winging it? — The Lead CNN (@TheLeadCNN) March 30, 2016 “Mr. Trump’s comment today is completely out of touch with the pro-life movement and even more with women who have chosen such a sad thing as abortion,” said Jeanne Mancini, President of the March for Life Education and Defense Fund. “Being pro-life means wanting what is best for the mother and the baby. Women who choose abortion often do so in desperation and then deeply regret such a decision. No pro-lifer would ever want to punish a woman who has chosen abortion. This is against the very nature of what we are about. We invite a woman who has gone down this route to consider paths to healing, not punishment.” In truth, like the notion that there should be exceptions for rape and incest, the notion that only the abortion doctor (not the woman having the abortion) should face penalties, is inconsistent with the notion that “abortion is murder.” #Trump campaign issues brief statement on #abortion: pic.twitter.com/jJFhzmHP5W Cruz campaign: Cruz focuses on punishing those who perform abortions, not women who get them https://t.co/GRrUbWpzGE https://t.co/7am5Tcd7AG
Poster Comment:
The next Trump scandal.This will keep Vannity and Coulter and the other Mini-Me's busy Trumpsplaining it away for the next few days.
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What is Trump's true position ....the one he initially spoke ;or the pc one he back tracked to for expediency ?
He screwed up answering a hypothetical question.
His screw ups make headlines too, so maybe he did it on purpose.
#147. To: tomder55 (#145)
Trump was not asked about abortion in a straightforward way. Had he been he would have responded that he was pro-life. Period. Next question. This is not a burning issue in 2016.
But Chris Matthews was looking for a gotcha moment. He gave Trump a hypothetical scenario, saying that abortion was illegal and asking Trump if he would punish a woman who broke the law.
Trump took that as a law-and-order question and said yes.
#148. To: SOSO (#141)
Wow, an egomaniacal politician a serial liar? Whodathunkit?
I know I'm shocked. No, seriously.
#149. To: Fred Mertz, tomder55 (#146)
His screw ups make headlines too, so maybe he did it on purpose.
He screwed 3 or times yesterday. I don't think any of them were on purpose. But CNN is having a field day at his expenses and the with the REP Party today and it will likley continue until he makes his next gaffe.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
#150. To: misterwhite (#147)
Trump was not asked about abortion in a straightforward way. Had he been he would have responded that he was pro-life. Period. Next question. This is not a burning issue in 2016.
You're as brain-dead as Limbaugh was today.
An open seat on the Supreme Court and it just "is not a burning issue in 2016"?
You're a complete moron.
#151. To: TooConservative (#150)
#152. To: Fred Mertz (#151)
I've yet to encounter anyone who claimed to be in Mensa who had actually passed the test.
People lie about crap online all the time. Military service and Mensa are two faves of serial liars.
#153. To: TooConservative, misterwhite (#150)
You're a complete moron.
You give him too much credit.
There is no hope for a Trump dupe.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
#154. To: TooConservative (#152)
I have one friend that I know is a Mensa. He advised me to take the test. I told him I didn't want to be a 95 percenter no-go/failure.
#155. To: tomder55 (#145)
The woman is as much a victim as the baby .
That is a lie. That is a lie. That is a lie.
#156. To: TooConservative (#110)
So you really do want to execute the mother but only give the abortionist a prison sentence.
I think the abortionist who does the procedure should be executed. Limb by limb.
#157. To: TooConservative (#109)
I'd be surprised if there are even 100 thousand such voters in the entire country.
So you think morality is a vote. That is stupid.
You take the wide gate I will take the narrow one.
#158. To: A K A Stone (#157)
You take the wide gate I will take the narrow one.
Coincidentally, I had a couple of polite JWs on the doorstep yesterday, haranguing me politely with just that passage. I felt kinda sorry for them but it made them happy that I didn't call them heretics and slam the door. The Watchtower makes them kind of desperate.
I had to smile. The JWs have their Kingdom Hall across town but the Mormons are right across the street and never knock on doors here. Those Mormons are good neighbors even if I do disagree with their theology.
#159. To: TooConservative (#158)
Coincidentally, I had a couple of polite JWs on the doorstep yesterday, haranguing me politely with just that passage. I felt kinda sorry for them but it made them happy that I didn't call them heretics and slam the door. The Watchtower makes them kind of desperate.I had to smile. The JWs have their Kingdom Hall across town but the Mormons are right across the street and never knock on doors here. Those Mormons are good neighbors even if I do disagree with their theology.
I love it when Jehovah's Witnesses knock on my door.
I talk until they flee and don't want to talk anymore.
Great fun.
#160. To: misterwhite (#147)
Chris Matthews was looking for a gotcha moment.
and if Trump had a well thought out answer he could've easily deflected the question. As an example . Roe v Wade created a national right out of thin air . Had there been no Roe v Wade then it would go back to the way it was before 1973 ;with some states having legal abortion and some states prohibiting the practice . A perfectly good conservative response would've been to say he wanted it pre- Roe when the states had the power to make the law.
Or as I said , he could've turned the question on Matthews and accused him of being a pro-eugenics racist progressive.
Trump's answer played right into the stereotype that the libs have of conservatives ....that they are incompassionate women haters .
"If you do not take an interest in the affairs of your government, then you are doomed to live under the rule of fools." Plato
#161. To: TooConservative (#150)
"An open seat on the Supreme Court and it just "is not a burning issue in 2016"?"
Is the court about to hear another abortion case? In the next 50 years?
Does the President appoint Supreme Court justices?
You're ignorant.
#162. To: tomder55 (#160)
and if Trump had a well thought out answer he could've easily deflected the question.
His answer was fine.
Ted Cruz is not pro life. He has the same position as Hillary.
Well if you and your ilk get their way we will have Hillary.
#163. To: misterwhite (#161)
Is the court about to hear another abortion case? In the next 50 years?
This session in fact.
#164. To: A K A Stone (#159)
I love it when Jehovah's Witnesses knock on my door.I talk until they flee and don't want to talk anymore.
I used to Mormon-proof people's houses for them that way. I know they have a database because once they met up with me, they never came back.
I liked to work the younger missionary with innocent questions while fending off the older handler missionary who would inevitably want to flee before I caused his young dupe to start thinking for himself.
The young JW yesterday, a very nice kid, started looking very thoughtful when I began discussing the history of the Bible and its central role in history. You probably can see why that isn't such a friendly topic for the senior JW. Still, they were nice people. I felt more sorry for the JWs than I ever did with Mormons. JWs are much more cultish IMO so their missionaries are victims, especially the younger ones.
#165. To: misterwhite, TooConservative (#161)
Does the President appoint Supreme Court justices?
Does he nominate them? Does the Senate ever appoint justices the President didn't nominate?
You're ignorant.
You try to deceive - but luckily for decent people, you're not smart enough to do it well.
#166. To: A K A Stone (#163)
"This session in fact."
Texas is trying to regulate abortion clinics out of existence. Hardly Roe v Wade.
#167. To: ConservingFreedom (#165)
"Does he nominate them?"
He sure does. Doesn't mean Congress will approve.
"Does the Senate ever appoint justices the President didn't nominate?"
Nope. But I bet they tell the President, "You nominate this guy and we'll approve".
#168. To: A K A Stone (#162)
Ted Cruz is not pro life. He has the same position as Hillary.
Wrong.
Clinton (https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/womens-rights-and- opportunity/):
'Women’s personal health decisions should be made by a woman, her family, and her faith, with the counsel of her doctor. Hillary will stand up to Republican attempts to defund Planned Parenthood, which would restrict access to critical health care services, like cancer screenings, contraception, and safe, legal abortion.'
Cruz (theiowarepublican.com/201...t-defend-the-sanctity- of-every-life/ ):
'The question of abortion should not be an issue of partisan politics, or even of differing faith backgrounds. It is a fundamental question of justice, and of whether we still hold true those immortal words of our founders — that we are “endowed” by our “Creator with certain unalienable Rights,” the first of which is life.
'Abortion is the stain on our nation’s modern history. We should end it.
[...] 'As Solicitor General of Texas, I was proud to successfully defend a federal law that bans partial birth abortion and to lead 18 states in defending New Hampshire’s parental notifications laws, both cases that we successfully won at the Supreme Court, marking two significant victories for life. While neither of these measures remove the scourge of abortion entirely, they continue shine the light on the atrocity and move us closer to doing so.
'During my time in the Senate, I have continued to fight for life. I am an original cosponsor of the Pain Capable Unborn Child Protection Act, to ban abortions after 20 weeks. I introduced a measure to stop the D.C. Council from forcing organizations to fund abortion services. And when Texas State Senator Wendy Davis and an army of abortion advocates tried to squelch legislation designed to protect the unborn, I proudly stood with the vast majority of Texans to protect the rights of the unborn.'
#169. To: TooConservative (#164)
Is the court about to hear another abortion case? In the next 50 years?
I used to work for an atheist. We were working on his fathers rental property next to his dentists office. Some JW's came to the door.
I was feeling mischievous so I told them it wasn't my house but to come in ant talk to the owner.
He got kind of mad that I let them in to bug him.
:)
#170. To: misterwhite (#167)
He sure does. Doesn't mean Congress will approve.
Does mean the open seat makes it a significant issue in 2016.
#171. To: ConservingFreedom (#168)
Ted Cruz is not pro life. He has the same position as Hillary. Wrong.
Ted Cruz thinks women should be able to get abortions and not face any penalty.
Same position as Hillary.
He puts a lot of lawyer lying in his words. Hillary is more direct.
0 = 0. As in no birth no consequences.
Don't lie to yourself. Be honest.
#172. To: A K A Stone (#171)
Ted Cruz thinks women should be able to get abortions and not face any penalty.Same position as Hillary.
Ted Cruz thinks abortionists should not be able to perform abortions and not face any penalty.
Not the same position as Hillary.
#173. To: ConservingFreedom (#170)
"Does mean the open seat makes it a significant issue in 2016."
Of course. But more than just the President decides who sits there. Ask Obama about that.
#174. To: ConservingFreedom (#172)
Ted Cruz thinks abortionists should not be able to perform abortions and not face any penalty.Not the same position as Hillary.
Pretty much the same.
WHere did Cruz say he would punish the abortionist?
I don't think he ever said that.
Show me please.
#175. To: misterwhite (#173)
"Does mean the open seat makes it a significant issue in 2016."Of course.
The we agree with respect to the only issue in contention in post #150.
#176. To: ConservingFreedom (#175)
"The we agree with respect to the only issue in contention in post #150."
I have no idea what that means.
There is an open Supreme Court seat. The next President will nominate someone. That individual's stance on abortion is important. So is their position on guns. Drugs. Gay rights. Religious freedom. Privacy and NSA. Environmental issues. Healthcare. Tariffs. And 100 other things.
Are you turning this nomination into a single-issue event?
#177. To: TooConservative (#102)
We'll see if Trump did offend them deeply. It won't take long for the polls to show it.
Polls already show Trump with a 74% disapproval rating among all women. Seems he isolated both the pro-life and pro-abortion lot.
For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (Romans 5:6-8)
#178. To: A K A Stone (#174)
WHere did Cruz say he would punish the abortionist?
Cruz cospnsored (thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/D? d114:62:./temp/~bdxnpM:@@@P ) the federal Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act (2015), which provided that "Whoever violates subsection (a) shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or both." (thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c114:S.1553:) Cruz supported (www.cruz.senate.gov/?p=press_release&id=35) Texas Senate Bill 1 (2013), which provided that "The Texas Medical Board may take disciplinary action under Chapter 164, Occupations Code, or assess an administrative penalty under Subchapter A, Chapter 165, Occupations Code, against a person who" performs a partial-birth abortion. (https://legiscan.com/TX/text/SB1/2013/X2)
#179. To: misterwhite (#176)
There is an open Supreme Court seat. The next President will nominate someone. That individual's stance on abortion is important.
That's what it means. Glad you finally caught on.
#180. To: ConservingFreedom (#178)
Wow a fine for murder or 5 years.
Is that the same position he has for murdering someone outside the womb? I don't think so.
That tells me he puts less respect for the innocent then a person outside the womb. He must think less of them.
#181. To: A K A Stone (#180)
Wow a fine for murder or 5 years.Is that the same position he has for murdering someone outside the womb? I don't think so.
That tells me he puts less respect for the innocent then a person outside the womb.
It tells rational people that Cruz has the sense to not make the best the enemy of the good.
And that his position is very much not "the same position as Hillary."
#182. To: TooConservative (#28)
certainly are some assholes
says
the
tape
worm
love
boris
If you ... don't use exclamation points --- you should't be typeing ! Commas - semicolons - question marks are for girlie boys !
#183. To: redleghunter (#177)
Polls already show Trump with a 74% disapproval rating among all women. Seems he isolated both the pro-life and pro-abortion lot.
What shocks me is how many people here at LF just don't get what it was that Trump said.
People in the pro-life movement have spent decades and tens of millions of dollars trying to counter the Lefty propaganda against us over the decades. And here comes Trump, like a turd floating in a punch bowl, and shoots his big flapping mouth off, handing the enemy a major propaganda victory. You can just imagine how much Chrissy's leg is tingling to have tripped Trump up so easily.
#184. To: TooConservative (#183)
You pro-aborts hate feticide laws.
#185. To: A K A Stone, TooConservative (#12)
Hiring someone to kill your kid is murder you fucking pro abort dumb ass.
The discussion is in the context IF Roe were to be overturned, and IF abortion were legally defined as the crime of murder (or infanticide), under that circumstance, should abortion be punished?
In other words, if an act is legally defined as murder, should it be punished?
MATTHEWS: If you say abortion is a crime or abortion is murder, you have to deal with it under law. Should abortion be punished?[...]
MATTHEWS: Do you believe in punishment for abortion, yes or no as a principle?
TRUMP: The answer is that there has to be some form of punishment.
MATTHEWS: For the woman?
TRUMP: Yes, there has to be some form.
#186. To: Roscoe (#184)
I've known TCs posting history for about 6 years. He is not pro abort. Far from it.
His point has been the pro life movement focuses on laws to protect the child in the womb. They take aim at abortion providers as well. They don't focus on prosecuting women who had an abortion probably because half the women in the pro life movement are repentant of their own abortions.
I stated Trump was logically and legally accurate in his original comments. However it is hard to broad brush all women who have abortions as premeditated murderers. Many end up getting abortions after someone else convinces them it is ok and the human being in the womb is not a human yet or a person. Which is deception.
The reason the pro life movement focuses on abortionists to legislate laws is if the penalty for providing an illegal abortion is iron clad homicide, no doctor in their right mind will perform the abortion. Eliminate the provider and you leave a woman a real difficult decision to abort on her own which already violates standing fetal homicide laws.
For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (Romans 5:6-8)
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