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Title: 1 in 4 Americans on verge of financial ruin
Source: Market Watch
URL Source: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/1- ... e-of-financial-ruin-2015-02-23
Published: Feb 23, 2016
Author: Catey Hill
Post Date: 2016-02-23 20:50:38 by U don't know me
Keywords: None
Views: 3982
Comments: 49

1 in 4 Americans on verge of financial ruin By Catey Hill

Published: Feb 23, 2016 5:31 a.m. ET

The rich keep getting richer. The rest of us aren’t so lucky.

According to a survey released Tuesday by Bankrate.com of more than 1,000 adults, nearly one in four Americans have credit card debt that exceeds their emergency fund or savings. And that’s partially because many people, in addition to their debt, don’t have a dime in their emergency fund at all: another Bankrate survey released earlier this year found that 29% of Americans have no emergency savings at all.

These numbers mean that many Americans are “teetering on the edge of financial disaster,” says Greg McBride, Bankrate.com’s chief financial analyst — thanks to the fact that they might be hard-pressed to pay for an emergency should one arise. “Not only do most of them not have enough savings, they’ve all used up some portion of their available credit — they are running out of options.”

That’s particularly problematic considering that emergencies happen more often than you might think. A 2014 survey by American Express found that half of all Americans had experienced an unforeseen expense in the past year — some of which could be considered an emergency. Indeed, 44% of those who had an unforeseen expense(s) had one for health care and 46% for car trouble — two items that for many Americans are must-pay items, as you need a car to get to work and your health expenses are usually not optional.

Some groups — for example, the 30 to 49 age group — are in worse off than others when it comes to credit card debt and savings. This group is in particularly rough shape, likely it faces child-related and mortgage expenses. Age % who say credit card debt is greater than emergency savings 18-29 20% 30-49 26% 50-64 25% 65+ 14%

For consumers, the ideal situation is to have no credit card debt and at least six months of savings in an emergency fund (more if you have dependents), experts say. But the reality is that most of us don’t have even close to that (just 52% of Americans have more emergency savings than credit card debt, the Bankrate survey revealed).

The good news: If you have no emergency savings, or more debt than savings, experts say you can remedy that situation. Some recommend paying off your credit card debt first (focus on paying as much as you can on the highest-interest-rate debt and the minimums on all others) and then building up savings, but others say you should try to do both at once. “When you have high interest credit card debt, I recommend saving just enough to cover short-term emergencies (your washer or dryer breaks, your car needs new brakes) — that might be one or two thousand dollars,” says Doug Bellfy, a financial advisor at Synergy Financial Planning in Glastonbury, Conn. “Then attack the credit cards and only then go back and complete building your emergency fund.”

Wan McCormick, a financial planner with Reliable Alliance Financial in Fairfax, Va., agrees with the split strategy: “Based purely on the numbers, one might recommend to focus on the high-interest rate credit debt since it costs more money out of pocket…however, oftentimes, unexpected events happen, and without an emergency fund, consumers with high-interest rate debts usually resort back to loans and most frequently, the credit card, since it is the easiest form of accessing money,” he says. To do both at once, McBride recommends setting up a direct deposit with part going into savings and part toward your credit card.

This story was originally published in February 2015.

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#1. To: U don't know me (#0)

People in REAL disaster need advice on what NOT to pay, how to strategically default.

As crisis gets worse and worse, people have to have a good battle plan. Yes, their credit rating will be trashed for awhile - but starving, losing a car, going sick, or ending up homeless is far worse.

It's a miserable fight, the defensive withdrawal, but it would be very useful to people if they were taught exactly how to do it.

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-02-23   21:47:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Vicomte13 (#1)

It's a miserable fight, the defensive withdrawal, but it would be very useful to people if they were taught exactly how to do it.

Yes it is difficult to cut up your credit card, any act of self discipline is

paraclete  posted on  2016-02-24   5:57:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: paraclete (#2)

Cutting up the credit card when the job goes away and there is no money to eat is not just difficult, it is stupid.

It is smarter, under such circumstances, to continue to eat while trying to find something else - although that means taking on debt that may end up in default, than abandoning food and medical care as "discipline".

People who are REALLY screwed by a system where jobs have become more and more unstable, costs have ratcheted skyward for basics like food and medical care, and whose jobs were shipped off to China or taken by illegals - or have had the security taken out of them because of the threat of both even if not yet acted upon are put into desperate situations.

Now, people like you can point at them with judgment and ridicule, like you just did with your message. But you don't help anything by doing that, because you simply don't understand.

Take a look at what your attitude has wrought. Take a very good look at it.

It is WHY the minorities all flock together in the Democrat Party - because they KNOW that down at the margin they live, they will not be heard or treated with any respect as to be basic NEEDS by the Republicans.

And it is WHY Trump is roaring through the Republican Party also, because enough working class and formerly middle class WHITES have ALSO been put to the terrible REAL choices of which I speak, where the choice is medical care and food, or borrowing money today in the hope of MAYBE being able to pay it back tomorrow.

That's the circumstances that MOST AMERICANS now find themselves in, and that a full 40% of Americans DO experience. And that is why Bernie Sanders is doing so well in the already-Left Democrat Party, and why Trump is completing a hostile takeover of the Republican Party.

You live in Europe, yes? If not, you talk like you do. You speak of "my country" and "over here" a lot, so you're giving the impression that you live in a place like Greece, or Hungary, or some Mediterranean EU zone country. If that's not so, then you've been a little deceptive. But if it is so, then you don't live in American conditions, because everywhere in Europe there IS universal health care, and there IS a pretty comprehensive social safety net. People don't LITERALLY die from lack of insulin or lack of food or heat in the European Union. They grouse about being poor, but the system there, even in the poor countries, is not one in which anybody has to literally choose whether to eat or get insulin for diabetes.

But in America, people literally DO have to make those choices. Always did. It's just that now, given the ruinous result of years of bad policy, a LOT of Americans face that choice. And if the choice is between getting insulin and food, or stealing from the credit card company, stealing from the credit card company is the RATIONAL CHOICE rather than starving or letting your kid die for want of care.

What you wrote suggestly blythely that people whose back is against the wall should put the interests of economic square dealing with banks - who, remember, get 50% back on their taxes for economic losses - over their own survival. That's wrong. Given a really brutal system that we have in America, people who are being held underwater until they drown should be taught how to strategically default, because more and more that's the only way they can buy time.

Telling them to simply cut off their lifeline now, to save a bank some money, is what Jeb Bush would say. An that's why Trump is running away with the election. We don't need smarmy and useless advice.

People who are teetering on the edge CANNOT cut up their credit cards. They need to USE THEM. But we need to reform our system so that fewer and fewer people are teetering on the edge, and those that are have a less expensive and better option through a government safety net, than through credit cards and strategic defaults.

You cannot be blind to the plight of these people, because it is tens of millions of Americans. Well, maybe you CAN be blind to it, because in Europe people are not put to these choices. But in America they ARE, and that is why Sanders has surged, and Trump is going to win the GOP nomination and the White House.

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-02-24   7:09:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Vicomte13 (#3)

Cutting up the credit card when the job goes away and there is no money to eat is not just difficult, it is stupid.

No it is not.

Don't you ever read the Bible?

The creditor is the master of the debtor.

Why would being enslaved be a good idea?

I don't know what your reasoning is but it is wrong.

A K A Stone  posted on  2016-02-24   7:17:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Vicomte13 (#3)

People who are REALLY screwed by a system where jobs have become more and more unstable,

You're worldly.

If you believe in God and pray to him and follow him. All of your needs will be met.

Do you not have faith in that?

If you do have faith in that why do you preach government dependence and slavery?

A K A Stone  posted on  2016-02-24   7:20:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Vicomte13 (#3)

Now, people like you can point at them with judgment and ridicule, like you just did with your message. But you don't help anything by doing that, because you simply don't understand.

God commanded us to judge righteous judgement.

He just told the truth.

You said go in more debt so you can be more of a slave.

A K A Stone  posted on  2016-02-24   7:21:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Vicomte13 (#3)

Take a look at what your attitude has wrought. Take a very good look at it.

It is WHY the minorities all flock together in the Democrat Party - because they KNOW that down at the margin they live, they will not be heard or treated with any respect as to be basic NEEDS by the Republicans.

A lie satan would tell.

God will take care of his people if you believe it or not.

Stealing from other people struggling and trying to make it and giving it to someone lazy is not a good answer. It is just theft.

God had a different plan then you or the catholic "church".

His plan was to depend on him not the government. Not to take stolen fruit. But to take that from people who give of their free will.

You don't get it and never will.

A K A Stone  posted on  2016-02-24   7:26:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: A K A Stone (#5)

If you believe in God and pray to him and follow him. All of your needs will be met.

Spoken like a hardline Calvinist. If you suffer from poverty and other disasters, it is because you are bad. Like this scum Job was.

Elect and pious are rich, healthy and happy.

A Pole  posted on  2016-02-24   7:28:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Vicomte13 (#3)

People don't LITERALLY die from lack of insulin or lack of food or heat in the European Union.

20,000 pensioners died from the cold last winter Oh really. That is your problem. You just lie or make stuff up and then it turns out not to be true.

How many died in America compared to London. Sheesh you'r stupid sometimes.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/361382/20-000-pensioners-died-from-the- cold-last-winter Over 80% of cold weather related deaths were among people over the age of 75, with 24,000 deaths in total linked to the cold snap.

There were more deaths amongst women than men and London was the area with the highest winter mortality rate, according to figures from the Office for National Statistics.

The overall figure was down on 2010 when there was an estimated 26,800 deaths.

A K A Stone  posted on  2016-02-24   7:29:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: A Pole (#8)

Like this scum Job was.

Job wasn't scum.

A K A Stone  posted on  2016-02-24   7:30:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: A Pole (#8)

Spoken like a hardline Calvinist.

Does the Bible say that yes or no?

A K A Stone  posted on  2016-02-24   7:31:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Vicomte13 (#3)

But in America, people literally DO have to make those choices. Always did.

Only in America right fool?

No that is the way the whole world is. It is because of sin and the fall.

Americans do better then the rest of the world.

A K A Stone  posted on  2016-02-24   7:33:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Vicomte13 (#3)

People who are teetering on the edge CANNOT cut up their credit cards. They need to USE THEM.

Liar.

It is plain that your faith is in man. It seems you don't even have faith in God.

A K A Stone  posted on  2016-02-24   7:34:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: A K A Stone, Vicomte13 (#13)

People who are teetering on the edge CANNOT cut up their credit cards. They need to USE THEM.

Liar.

It is plain that your faith is in man. It seems you don't even have faith in God.

God Will Save Me

A terrible storm came into a town and local officials sent out an emergency warning that the riverbanks would soon overflow and flood the nearby homes. They ordered everyone in the town to evacuate immediately.

A faithful Christian man heard the warning and decided to stay, saying to himself, “I will trust God and if I am in danger, then God will send a divine miracle to save me.”

The neighbors came by his house and said to him, “We’re leaving and there is room for you in our car, please come with us!” But the man declined. “I have faith that God will save me.”

As the man stood on his porch watching the water rise up the steps, a man in a canoe paddled by and called to him, “Hurry and come into my canoe, the waters are rising quickly!” But the man again said, “No thanks, God will save me.”

The floodwaters rose higher pouring water into his living room and the man had to retreat to the second floor. A police motorboat came by and saw him at the window. “We will come up and rescue you!” they shouted. But the man refused, waving them off saying, “Use your time to save someone else! I have faith that God will save me!”

The flood waters rose higher and higher and the man had to climb up to his rooftop.

A helicopter spotted him and dropped a rope ladder. A rescue officer came down the ladder and pleaded with the man, "Grab my hand and I will pull you up!" But the man STILL refused, folding his arms tightly to his body. “No thank you! God will save me!”

Shortly after, the house broke up and the floodwaters swept the man away and he drowned.

When in Heaven, the man stood before God and asked, “I put all of my faith in You. Why didn’t You come and save me?”

And God said, “Son, I sent you a warning. I sent you a car. I sent you a canoe. I sent you a motorboat. I sent you a helicopter. What more were you looking for?”

“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul

In a Cop Culture, the Bill of Rights Doesn’t Amount to Much

Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.
Paul Craig Roberts

Deckard  posted on  2016-02-24   7:38:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Deckard (#14)

A faithful Christian man heard the warning and decided to stay, saying to himself, “I will trust God and if I am in danger, then God will send a divine miracle to save me.”

I've heard your story before.

You're right it will not be supe4rnatural money falling out of the sky.

It will be help in the form of another person. A willing participant.

Not someone that got robbed.

A K A Stone  posted on  2016-02-24   7:49:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: A K A Stone (#6)

God commanded us to judge righteous judgement.

This is not really righteous talk. More like from Pulp Fiction:

The Incarnate God said:

"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned.

His Holy Apostle Paul wrote:

"But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you, or by man’s judgment. Yea, I judge not mine own self.

For I know nothing by myself, yet am I not hereby justified; but He that judgeth me is the Lord.

Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts"

A Pole  posted on  2016-02-24   8:11:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: A K A Stone (#12)

Americans do better then the rest of the world.

How many countries do you know?

A Pole  posted on  2016-02-24   8:13:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: A K A Stone (#13)

It seems you don't even have faith in God.

Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, and set Him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto Him,

“If Thou be the Son of God, cast Thyself down. For it is written: ‘He shall give His angels charge concerning thee; and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.’”

Jesus said unto him, “It is written again: ‘Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.’”

A Pole  posted on  2016-02-24   8:16:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: A Pole (#16)

If someone on the sexual predators list lived next door. You would have them babysit your kids or grand kids correct? Because you wouldn't ever judge them wouldf you.

John 7:24

24Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

A K A Stone  posted on  2016-02-24   8:20:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: A Pole, A K A Stone (#16)

The Incarnate God said:

"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned.

Then why do we have judges and juries?

He also said to ban them to the desert. Basically death sentence or push them off to someone else.

The communist radicalization of the bible is killing Christianity.

Justified  posted on  2016-02-24   9:00:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: A K A Stone (#4)

Don't you ever read the Bible?

The creditor is the master of the debtor.

Don't worry, the economic system is about to take care of the problem

U don't know me  posted on  2016-02-24   9:27:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: U don't know me (#0)

"... found that 29% of Americans have no emergency savings at all."

By "emergency savings" I assume the author means cash sitting in a bank collecting .00001% interest.

How about a credit card with a zero balance and a $10,000 limit? Or a home equity line of credit of $50,000? Or borrowing from your life insurance policy? Or from your 401(k)?

Given that you'd be paying interest on these emergency funds, there's a larger incentive to get a job. Perhaps only 29% of Americans have emergency savings sitting in a bank. But I'm guessing a much higher percentage can cope with a financial emergency.

misterwhite  posted on  2016-02-24   9:39:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: A K A Stone (#19)

I call upon the Lord to judge between me and you.

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-02-24   10:25:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Deckard (#14)

I have read that story before. Very good

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't

Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.

There are no Carthaginian terrorists.

President Obama is the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American people. --Clint Eastwood

A friend will help you move ,But a good friend will help you move a body..

Stoner  posted on  2016-02-24   10:38:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: misterwhite (#22)

" cash sitting in a bank collecting .00001% interest. "

Soon, all banks will be going to negative rates, and you will have to pay to park your money in a bank. So, each month, your balance will shrink.

Great huh?

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't

Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.

There are no Carthaginian terrorists.

President Obama is the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American people. --Clint Eastwood

A friend will help you move ,But a good friend will help you move a body..

Stoner  posted on  2016-02-24   10:42:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Stoner (#25)

"So, each month, your balance will shrink."

My bank charges me $7 per month on my corporate checking account for "administrative fees".

misterwhite  posted on  2016-02-24   10:48:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Vicomte13 (#23)

I call upon the Lord to judge between me and you.

That isn't going to happen. We will have to use reason and scripture to sort it out.

There is a judgement day that we will all be judged on. But it isn't a competition between you and I.

Look I don't like thieves. If I want to help someone out I will do that. I don't need the government to confiscate it. Then take a cut. Then give a large portion to some lazy deadbeat.

A K A Stone  posted on  2016-02-24   10:48:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Vicomte13 (#3) (Edited)

now, people like you can point at them with judgment and ridicule,

don't project your ideas on to me. I made no judgements but running up debt when you cannot pay it is unintelligent and if you do it with the intention of defaulting it is theft. I have been through the situation where it took years to pay off a card and I had a job so I know that making a bad situation worse is unhelpful and means that you won't seek other help until you are desperate.

You are right I don't live in that glorious utopia you call the USA but things are no picnic for a lot of people here either. You want to look down your nose at countries that have a safety net, but only christian countries do this, so let's ask ourselves, which country expresses christian values and puts their money where their mouth is?

paraclete  posted on  2016-02-24   11:18:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: misterwhite (#26)

You should find a new bank

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't

Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.

There are no Carthaginian terrorists.

President Obama is the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American people. --Clint Eastwood

A friend will help you move ,But a good friend will help you move a body..

Stoner  posted on  2016-02-24   11:33:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Stoner (#29)

"You should find a new bank"

Workin' on it.

misterwhite  posted on  2016-02-24   11:34:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: A K A Stone (#19)

If someone on the sexual predators list lived next door. You would have them babysit your kids or grand kids correct? Because you wouldn't ever judge them wouldf you.

I would judge him in practical sense and kept children away from him. Same way when it is going to rain I take an umbrella with me.

A Pole  posted on  2016-02-24   12:17:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: A K A Stone (#19)

" If someone on the sexual predators list lived next door. You would have them babysit your kids or grand kids correct? "

Uh, no! Around here, that house would probably mysteriously burn down in the middle of the night, with the perv still in it.

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't

Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.

There are no Carthaginian terrorists.

President Obama is the greatest hoax ever perpetrated on the American people. --Clint Eastwood

A friend will help you move ,But a good friend will help you move a body..

Stoner  posted on  2016-02-24   12:54:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: paraclete (#28)

You want to look down your nose at countries that have a safety net, but only christian countries do this,

I do? No. I have posted for years and years that I believe firmly in the Christian requirement for a safety net. I believe that God assigned the responsibility to human beings to take care of each other in every vector, and I reject as absurd the notion that once we move to the level of government that stops.

This is the biggest issue that divides me from Protestants, truth be told.

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-02-24   13:57:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: A K A Stone (#27)

That isn't going to happen.

You've accused me publicly of deadly sins. I deny your accusations. I have called upon the Lord to judge between you and me. And that is all I have to say to you.

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-02-24   15:29:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Vicomte13 (#34)

You've accused me publicly of deadly sins

All sins are deadly.

A K A Stone  posted on  2016-02-24   15:40:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: A K A Stone, Vicomte13 (#13)

People who are teetering on the edge CANNOT cut up their credit cards. They need to USE THEM. Liar.

Not a lie.

Have family who worked hard good job same company and then layoffs galore in the Insurance industry.

Problem was he was middle age, a family of four and had to pay the mortgage, clothe and feed his family. Yes he used credit cards to offset unemployment as he kept looking for work and the job market was crap. Get a job, lower pay, that company fails, back looking for work. Finds another job, few months later company moves to another state. Rinse and repeat in a crappy economy.

Now five years later finally finds some stability and paying off debt accrued over that time.

So it is not as clear cut as we think.

We all like to think people who struggle with their finances are welfare hookers gaming the government. Not the case for those who worked hard all their lives and hit a rough patch and have some pride in what they do.

No cookie cutters on this.

Just my two cents.

For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (Romans 5:6-8)

redleghunter  posted on  2016-02-25   0:05:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Vicomte13 (#33)

Unfortunately we have government as one of the stumbling blocks to opening up our churches to pitch in more.

Frankly I don't think the ekklesia is at its fullest capacity because churches figure government has everyone covered. We might look to strike a balance.

For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (Romans 5:6-8)

redleghunter  posted on  2016-02-25   0:09:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: redleghunter (#36)

Not a lie.

It is not the truth. Vic said "they CANNOT".

Yes they can.

Maybe they use them maybe not.

It isn't a "cannot".

I had a lot of debt and got rid of them.

So it most certainly is not a "cannot".

A K A Stone  posted on  2016-02-25   7:17:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Vicomte13 (#1)

People in REAL disaster need advice on what NOT to pay, how to strategically default.

Like...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/shooting-kills-colorado- sheriffs-deputy-wounds-37169288

...that Comrade Vicomte?

FAIL. No Jubilee for YOU!

VxH  posted on  2016-02-25   14:16:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Vicomte13 (#3)

People don't LITERALLY die from lack of insulin or lack of food or heat in the European Union.

While their children vacationed on the Cote d'Azur , the elderly died by the thousands in Paris from an August 2003 heat wave.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/weather/news/2003-09-25-france-heat_x.htm

"If you do not take an interest in the affairs of your government, then you are doomed to live under the rule of fools." Plato

tomder55  posted on  2016-02-26   13:14:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: paraclete (#28)

still waiting for that passage in the scriptures that compels governments to be charitible with other people's money .

"If you do not take an interest in the affairs of your government, then you are doomed to live under the rule of fools." Plato

tomder55  posted on  2016-02-26   13:16:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: tomder55 (#40)

While their children vacationed on the Cote d'Azur , the elderly died by the thousands in Paris from an August 2003 heat wave.

And that was bad.

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-02-26   14:36:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: tomder55 (#41)

still waiting for that passage in the scriptures that compels governments to be charitible with other people's money

Do you really want to see what is in the Bible on this? It is extensive, and expensive? Do you REALLY want to see it? And if you do see it, and clearly understand that God DOES mandate poverty assistance by the organized state, will you change your position, or will you turn your back on the God of the Bible?

It's an honest question. Your political beliefs about the economics of poverty relief are, in fact, at odds with what God revealed directly out of his own mouth in Scripture. If you are willing to accept the discipline of going through the provisions, in the order they were revealed, you will see it quite clearly.

But is your political conviction about economics so strong that, if confronted with the God of the Bible presenting a more communitarian approach than you currently accept, you will reject that God? Or will you accept the correction?

I can predict that your answer will be that God says no such thing as I say, but actually, God does. I changed my views on these things BECAUSE OF what God has to say about them.

Will you even open the door to the possibility?

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-02-26   14:43:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: Vicomte13 (#43)

Christian charity is voluntary and virtuous , rewarding the giver also . Funding government programs is not voluntary, but mandatory. Noncompliance is punished . But go ahead and tell me where Christ instructed us to compel others to be charitable. I read it differently .When asked who bears the responsibility to be charitable ,I think the Christian answer is 'I do '....not 'that rich dude'.

"If you do not take an interest in the affairs of your government, then you are doomed to live under the rule of fools." Plato

tomder55  posted on  2016-02-26   20:02:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: tomder55 (#44)

It starts in Eden and moves forward through Sinai and Israel, and culminates in Christ. Christ completes the law, he doesn't cancel it.

We cannot start with Christ, but what the law that Christ upheld.

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-02-26   22:36:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: tomder55, vicomte13 (#40)


source: tradingeconomics.com

According to this chart the average elderly person in France should have well over $1 million in savings. Why should anyone in France die during a heat away when their kids are away?

In fact the average Frenchman over 50 years old and worked for 30 years or so should also have about a $1+/- million in savings. I know that if I had consistently saved 15% of my salary for the last 30 years that I worked I would have been a millionaire a decade ago.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2016-02-26   22:53:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: SOSO (#46)

People in France died in the heat wave because it got really, really hot for a sustained period.

Paris is at the same latitude as Quebec. It gets warm in the summer, but it just doesn't get that overwhelmingly, blisteringly hot. The French don't generally have air conditioning, or need it. When it's hot, open the windows.

Old people have trouble regulating their body heat anyway, and along comes a heat wave, with people living in apartments (which get warm anyway), a real freak heat wave that goes on and on, in a population unaccustomed to that sort of heat, for that sort of duration, and that has no air conditioning to go cool off. The death toll was high.

Vicomte13  posted on  2016-02-26   23:17:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: Vicomte13 (#47)

The death toll was high.

So much for socialism.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2016-02-26   23:19:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: Vicomte13 (#47)

All I ask is for Europeans to invest in underarm deodorant.

For when we were still without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die; yet perhaps for a good man someone would even dare to die. But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. (Romans 5:6-8)

redleghunter  posted on  2016-02-27   0:06:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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