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politics and politicians Title: Obscene wealth Most of us would not think of our circumstance as more than adequate while some just don't have what they need but 1% have as much as the other 99% and this has to be seen as obscene. Modern economies focus on the success of the individual ignoring opportunity for the many, but something is out of whack when this results in a small group gaining all the resources. Apparently $1 million will put you in the 1% club so we arn't necessarily speaking of the super rich although the actions of some are obscene like alledged billionaire Clive Palmer who had one of his companies make political contributions to his own political party while trying to convince government that his company was bankrupt and needed a handout. I really don't care if Donald Trump spends $2 billion in his election campaign but I do think it is obscene he has that capability. Arn't there more important things he could do with the money? Couldn't he do a Bill Gates? Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 76. #2. To: paraclete (#0) (Edited) Arn't there more important things he could do with the money? Couldn't he do a Bill Gates? How much do you think you know about Bill Gates and his background? On another suject, I have no objection to people who obtain wealth by building new industries. It benefits all of us. Have you done anything with your life except resent and complain about those who have? What I do object to is people who use political means to consolidate and perpetuate their do-nothing inherited positions.
#3. To: rlk (#2) Have you done anything with your life except resent and complain about those who have? Yes my life has been very productive. What you fail to realise is that a life built on gaining wealth at the expense of other people is not something to be applauded. I used Gates as an example of someone who obviously realised he needed to share his wealth.
#11. To: paraclete, All (#3) What you fail to realize is that a life built on gaining wealth at the expense of other people is not something to be applauded. What you don't realize of that you are a victim of the left's meme of economic and financial gains are a zero sum game, i.e. - I can only earn a dollar at the expense of someone losing it. This is pure BS. To be sure there are those that lie, cheat and steal. There are those that bribe politicians to make laws that benefit their pocketbook, usually at the expense of others. But who really is at blame here, the one that bribes or the ones that accept the bribe? Or the ones that continually elect those that accept the bribes? Like Clinton before him, Obama will leave office are very, very rich man. They were not remotely so when they took office. The same is true form most elected officials in DC. You are a sucker for their scam.
#13. To: SOSO (#11) What you don't realize of that you are a victim of the left's meme of economic and financial gains are a zero sum game, i.e. - I can only earn a dollar at the expense of someone losing it. This is pure BS. True, it is not a zero sum game. When the wealth concentrate and wages stagnate or go down, the economic pie contracts and stagnates. Like in old Egypt or India, or American South, where Job Creators had it all. The sum can be negative.
#14. To: A Pole (#13) The sum can be negative. It is definitely possible for the economic pie to shrink, the USSR for example proved that. But in the U.S. the economy has consistently grown with just about all sharing in some to degree.
#16. To: SOSO (#14) (Edited) It is definitely possible for the economic pie to shrink, the USSR for example proved that Soviet economy was growing until Free Market reforms and country falling apart under Yeltsin.
But in the U.S. the economy has consistently grown with just about all sharing in some to degree. Especially during the Great Depression.
#17. To: A Pole (#16) It is definitely possible for the economic pie to shrink, the USSR for example proved that Not for the average Boris. "But in the U.S. the economy has consistently grown with just about all sharing in some to degree. Especially during the Great Depression. And? Every economy has down cycles. FYI the upper class was hit much more hard than the rest of the country during the Great Depression both in relative and absolute terms. What we are talking about is the economic well being of ALL of a country's citizens. You obviously think that the USSR did very well by all of its people since is inception in the 1920s. Can I have some of what you are smoking? No country in history has developed as robust, broad and deep economically well off middle class than the U.S. Even the bottom rung of the U.S. economy enjoy a standard of living higher than the middle class of most countries in the world, and batter than the upper class of several.
#22. To: SOSO (#17) No country in history has developed as robust, broad and deep economically well off middle class than the U.S. Thanks to FDR and New Deal, earlier to some extent to the plentiful land taken from Indians. Now this advantage is evaporating.
Even the bottom rung of the U.S. economy enjoy a standard of living higher than the middle class of most countries in the world, I am curious, how do you measure standard of living? Discretionary income, freedom from debt, leisure time, happy stable families, number of TVs and cars per family, life expectancy, secure jobs, medical care, equal access to justice, culture like number of books read per year, foreign travel, meat, fish and fruits consumed per year?
#25. To: A Pole (#22) No country in history has developed as robust, broad and deep economically well off middle class than the U.S. Absolute BS. Thanks goes to Hitler and ToJo. It was WWII that catapulted the U.S. economy and expanded and deepened the middle. The New Deal did little to improve unemployment in the U.S. thru the 1930s. I am curious, how do you measure standard of living? Discretionary income, freedom from debt, leisure time, happy stable families, number of TVs and cars per family, life expectancy, secure jobs, medical care, equal access to justice, culture like number of books read per year, foreign travel, meat, fish and fruits consumed per year?" Yes.
#28. To: SOSO (#25) "I am curious, how do you measure standard of living? Discretionary income, freedom from debt, leisure time, happy stable families, number of TVs and cars per family, life expectancy, secure jobs, medical care, equal access to justice, culture like number of books read per year, foreign travel, meat, fish and fruits consumed per year?" Yes what? Life expectancy - position 34th. Leisure/vacation time? Divorce rate? Incarceration rate? Indebtedness?
#31. To: A Pole (#28) Life expectancy - position 34th. Another total BS stat. Learn something instead of being a total dupe that buys into all the propaganda BS you are fed. Take the time to adjust the life expectancy data to the real world by putting the data on an equal footing, i.e. - same basis. You need to adjust the data for each country to reflect a common demographic of gender, race, aggressiveness in pursuing difficult pregnancies to term, suicide, accidents, etc. When to do that you get an ENTIRELY different picture of the true comparative state of health care among countries. And guess what, Boris, the U.S. is at the top tier of the list. You are a chump sucker little sheep that doesn't have the balls or intellectual integrity to investigate for your self.
#33. To: SOSO (#31) You need to adjust the data for each country to reflect a common demographic of gender, race, aggressiveness in pursuing difficult pregnancies to term, suicide, accidents, etc. When to do that you get an ENTIRELY different picture of the true comparative state of health care among countries. And guess what, Boris, the U.S. is at the top tier of the list. You are a chump sucker little sheep that doesn't have the balls or intellectual integrity to investigate for your self. Show me. Show how you take into account all these factors and how you come on top. I suspect that you assume superiority from the start and adjust facts and interpretations to fit to this fixed "truth". But I am open to the compelling reasoning. I have no stake in accepting that Americans or Swiss or Japanese are on top. I will gladly learn about it.
#37. To: A Pole (#33) I suspect that you assume superiority from the start and adjust facts and interpretations to fit to this fixed "truth". But I am open to the compelling reasoning. I have no stake in accepting that Americans or Swiss or Japanese are on top. I will gladly learn about it. OK, I will take you at your word. Here's how you would go about this. First understand that most countries do not publish health and demographic data in the detail that you will need to do the adjustments as the U.S. does. The first thing you look for is the life expectancy data for a country by demographics, i.e. - gender, race, etc.. It is a well documented fact that blacks in just about every western European country and most other places have a shorter life expectancy than the white population in that country and usually shorter than latinos in that country. Therefore you cannot compare the raw unadjusted data for say a country with a black 13% population with that of a country with just 2% black population. You must put the two on an equal demographic basis by adjusting the reported life expectancy to reflect the same percentage of blacks. In other words, if you adjust the overall life expectancy of country with 13% blacks down to 2% blacks the life expectancy for that country will rise (conversely of you adjust the country with 2% blacks up to 13% its overall life expectancy will drop). You do the same for the percentage of women in each country (women almost always have a higher life expectancy in developed countries than men), latinos, suicides, accidents, etc. That is the only way that you can get a meaningful comparison. And there is always one huge factor for which there is no data (and therefoer no adjustment can be made) but none-the-less is very real. Any honest physician in the world will tell you that the U.S. medical system is much more aggressive in bringing at risk pregnancies to term than just about any other place on Earth. As a result the reported infant mortality rate in the U.S. is higher by comparison with those countries that do not as aggressively pursue at risk pregnancies. What I just told you are verifiable unbiased facts. Given your level of brain washing and lack of capacity for critical self thinking I do not expect you to accept the truth. You can simply wish reality away as you are want to do but it doesn't change the reality.
#38. To: SOSO (#37) herefore you cannot compare the raw unadjusted data for say a country with a black 13% population with that of a country with just 2% black population. Life expectancy of American white males is 76.1 www.worldlifeexpectancy.c...ife-expectancy-white-male Several countries are ahead in life expectancy for males, (sort by males): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lis...ntries_by_life_expectancy country males Japan 80 Spain 80 Andorra 79 Australia 80 Switzerland 81 Italy 80 Singapore 81 San Marino 83 Canada 80 Cyprus 80 France 79 [...] Lebanon 78 [...] Costa Rica 77
#40. To: A Pole, Soso (#38) (Edited) therefore you cannot compare the raw unadjusted data for say a country with a black 13% population with that of a country with just 2% black population. many countries have black or coloured populations and they do well on the various indecies. my own nation has 4.5% black population who insist on dying early but our survivial rate averages over 80 years. These people fill our prisions just like they do yours but our crime rate is much lower than the US. The important thing is with statistic there are subsets of the data and maybe you can make comparisons which give understanding as to why a particular population behaves the way they do, but we can still say there is a problem here, these people exhibit a high standard of living but much greater social problems and we know the answer because the elephant is in the room, races don't play well together, concentrations of people of a particular race generate their own problems, but more than that there si a certain ethos of discrimination which is yet to be overcome
#51. To: paraclete (#40) many countries have black or coloured populations and they do well on the various indecies. Please document you data sources.
#52. To: SOSO (#51) Please document you data sources. You can do any comparisons you want at http://www.theglobaleconomy.com/compare-countries/ but first you need to define what you mean by coloured and what percentage you are talking about
#58. To: paraclete (#52) You can do any comparisons you want at That is not true. For example, there is no data for the life expectancy of blacks for any country. Why are you giving non-responsive references to support your claim about the life expectancy of blacks in your country?
#59. To: SOSO (#58) (Edited) there is no data for the life expectancy of blacks for any country. where do you get this bullshit from? In this counrty these things are researched and known so that appropriate medical and other resources can be provided. That site I provided the link for would have given you data but here is some from another source Life expectancy of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people "For the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander population born in 2010–2012, life expectancy was estimated to be 10.6 years lower than that of the non- Indigenous population for males (69.1 years compared with 79.7) and 9.5 years for females (73.7 compared with 83.1). Between 2005–2007 and 2010–2012, Indigenous life expectancy at birth for boys increased by 1.6 years and by 0.6 years for girls. Over the same period, the gap between Indigenous and non-Indigenous life expectancy narrowed by 0.8 years for males and 0.1 years for females." as would be expected the situation is worse in the United States http://www.businessinsider.com.au/huge-racial-gap-in-life-expectancy-2014-1
#60. To: paraclete (#59) That site I provided the link for would have given you data but here is some from another source It does not now.....period. "Life expectancy of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people "For the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander population born in 2010–2012, life expectancy was estimated to be 10.6 years lower than that of the non- Indigenous population for males (69.1 years compared with 79.7) and 9.5 years for females (73.7 compared with 83.1). " So how do you come to claim that the life expectancy of blacks in your country is just a few months less than none blacks? Are you claiming that the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people are classified as some thing other than black. Here is the link to the 2011 study entitled "Comparing life expectancy of indigenous people in Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the United States". It clearly shows that not only is the life expectancy of indigenous people in Australia way, way lower than the general population it is way, way, way lower than that of indigenous people in Canada and the U.S. (see page 19). New Zealand does better than Australia but still much worse than the U.S. and Canada.
#61. To: SOSO (#60) (Edited) Are you claiming that the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people are classified as some thing other than black. I never said it was a few months less I said it was lower, which it is. This is in the hands of the black people themselves, lifestyle changes are needed. We take no responsibility for white people who booze themselves into an early grave why should we take responsibility for black people. I'm sick of this black people are special nonsense.We used to think they were part of the fauna, maybe we weren't so wrong afterall. Various ethnic groups have different life expectancies, that is how it is. Environmental factors play a part, but they do for everyoneelse too. I've seen the statistics on expectancy of blacks in america, it is way lower than blacks in Australia and these people are supposed to be living in a more highly developed society. let's take some of you smart white people back to the stone age and see how long you survive. I give you a week at best
#67. To: paraclete (#61) I've seen the statistics on expectancy of blacks in america, it is way lower than blacks in Australia and these people are supposed to be living in a more highly developed society. I ask you again to document the source of your claim. If you are claiming that the Aborigines are the blacks to whom you reference then the 2011 reference I gave you clearly shows quite the opposite, i.e. they do much, much worse than blacks in the U.S. If are not talking about the indigenous people but blacks as a different group of people in Australia please document the source of your data. This is a very simple request that you are having quite a bit of difficulty answering.
#74. To: SOSO (#67) (Edited) This is a very simple request that you are having quite a bit of difficulty answering. You seem to have difficulty understanding that indigenous australians are, for the most part, black in skin colour. There are other dark people here, somali's and other african but they are few. I was not refering to them. Mixed race people are not necessarily dark. There are many people here who have dark tones to the skin, indians, arabs, turks and such like, my skin turns dark in the summer sun if I am stupid enough to go out in it. I don't know what you are trying to prove, we understand that indigenous people have a lower life expectancy and we are working to close the gap on many fronts, what are they doing in your nation to close the gap in expectancy for your black people who are, I expect, negroid? The statistics I have seen suggest taht a black in the US has an expectancy of 67 years whereas an indigenous person in Australia has an expectancy of 69 years. It used to be much worse but then so were your statistics use the references I have given you
#75. To: paraclete, A Pole (#74) I don't know what you are trying to prove, First and foremost is that the published raw life expectancy data for each country are very ill defined numbers that lack sufficient specificity to afford rational analysis. Second is that there are inherent differences in life expectancy among the races in each and every country - the differences may be due to social factors, genetic factors, political factors, cultural factors, religious factors, or all of the above but they are very real AND vary from country to country. Third is that in order to make a rational and valid comparisons the raw life expectancy data must be normalized for at least differences in demographics and causes of death (including causes such as suicides, homicides, accidents). Fourth is that demographic data for EACH country that is required to normalize the life expectancy data is virtually non-existent, at least from publically available sources. Most countries, especially Western European countries, simply do not even report their respective population demographics by race, much less the life expectancy. For example, you cannot find data on the life expectancy of blacks in France, or Latinos or Asians (then go try Norway etc.). Even in your country you can only point to one published study in 2011 that reports on the life expectancy of "indigenous" people. Fifth is that when someone mindlessly tries to use raw life expectancy data to make a point about comparative efficacy of a country's medical system they not only reveal their ignorance but very, very likely their political bias. Sixth is that as A Pole shows one cannot have a rational dialogue on the subject because as soon as you reveal one's ignorance and biases on the subject they will play the race card. Got it?
#76. To: SOSO (#75) A Pole shows one cannot have a rational dialogue on the subject because as soon as you reveal one's ignorance and biases on the subject they will play the race card. It was you who brought the issue of race and was harping on it. You say that without detailed racial analysis you cannot establish the fact that American life expectancy is not on the top. Your presumption is that is you remove blacks from the picture, America would be on top, but you yourself say that there are not enough data. So you contradict yourself. Curiously enough you do not insist on excluding Latinos who live longer than whites. BTW, you were given comparison of the average life expectancy of the white people in America with that (INCLUDING all races) in other developed countries, and still you are not on top.
Replies to Comment # 76. F*ck off you lying asshole.
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