At least 12 male officers were implicated in the ring, which operated for about 10 months before a electronics technician on another ship heard about the recordings and reported them. Of those 12 men, 10 were ultimately prosecuted and assigned punishments ranging from hard prison time to a pay cut.
The men were apparently able to film the women through a hole in the wall using cell phones and an iPod Touch—both of which are reportedly banned aboard the submarine. And it was a wonder they had any time left over to do their jobs (via the Navy Times):
One sailor admitted that he and a male peer rushed to secretly record each female midshipman while she was in the shower changing room. They filmed every woman each time she took a shower during the three-month patrol, he said — several times a day, according to a new report.
The men were casual about the videos—one missile technician, Jonathan Ashby, reportedly told investigators he learned about them from a colleague, MT2 Charles Greaves, who “informed me that he had ‘captured some Pokemon.’” (This year, Greaves was dishonorably discharged from the Navy and sentenced to two years in prison.)
But even though the case is over, it’s still somewhat unclear who was involved and who knew what—Greaves’ attorney reportedly accused the Navy of “ignoring information about several other sailors who knew about the videos, including two chiefs.” And at least one sailor avoided prosecution “because the only evidence against him was the statement of one other sailor.”
But even though the case is over, it’s still somewhat unclear who was involved and who knew what—Greaves’ attorney reportedly accused the Navy of “ignoring information about several other sailors who knew about the videos, including two chiefs.”
The best answer for the modern Navy - say, subs before they go on patrol - is to check the whole crew carefully for STDs, acknowledge that humans are "all sexual beings", and then institute an "all naked, all the time, except for firefighting" rule, with "access" based on rank. The Captain gets to "do" anybody. The lowliest Semen Recruit - sorry, SEAMAN - gets "done" by whoever wants to do the doing.
This will keep morale very high, bind the crew much more tightly (ooh, tight bonds!).
Of course the defense contractors can make a fortune by making "step-in" firefighting clothes which can be hanging everywhere.
The lights can be re-rigged for UV, so that every day the crew gets their Vitamin D and they all come off cruise with a full-body tan, with the only tan lines at the boots.
And maybe their collars (where they wear their ranks).
"Up periscope" will have a whole new meaning, and maybe they can put a few beds in the "torpedo room".
Think of all of the fresh water, time and money saved by not having to wash the crew's clothes!
The best answer for the modern Navy - say, subs before they go on patrol - is to check the whole crew carefully for STDs, acknowledge that humans are "all sexual beings", and then institute an "all naked, all the time, except for firefighting" rule, with "access" based on rank. The Captain gets to "do" anybody. The lowliest Semen Recruit - sorry, SEAMAN - gets "done" by whoever wants to do the doing.
At least 12 male officers were implicated in the ring,
OFFICERS???????
That is a betrayal of the worst sort. I hope each officer and NCO involved in this gets the maximum amount of hard time and a DD out of this.
Not to mention having their asses stomped at least once a week.
Any officer or NCO doing something like this or allowing anyone else to do something like this to the people under their command that they are responsible for should be shot,but I know that won't happen so I hope they get the hard time.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Let's see a show of hands: who was surprised at this news stemming from the Navy brass giving in and putting women on subs?
I think we could all say, "I predicted this".
Frankly,I am. Sub sailors are supposed to be some of the most steady sailors in the Navy. Still,it would not be surprising to discover some E-3 or E-4 18-20 year old sailor on his first hitch would do something like this,but for officers and NCO's to be involved is beyond belief.
I would personally prefer to see them court-martialed and shot,and no,I am NOT kidding. This is not a civilian workforce. This is a workforce where their very lives depend on the stability and the honor of those above them.
Then again,this IS the modern military,where AA degrees and promotions are as common as sunshine. People are being commissioned as officers or promoted to NCO status every day that are obviously unfit to wear the uniform or take the oath they don't even understand. There ARE no freaking standards to maintain any longer at even the highest political levels,so why should we be surprised when they dumb the military down to their level of lowered expectations?
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
Any officer or NCO doing something like this or allowing anyone else to do something like this to the people under their command that they are responsible for should be shot,but I know that won't happen so I hope they get the hard time.
I don't think they shoot officers in the Navy, pete. So maybe you can make the ringleaders walk the plank, hang 'em from the highest yardarm or keelhaul them (I suppose it all depends on their rank, but I'm unfamiliar with the pecking order.) Lesser offenders can be flogged, blinded with a hot iron & tossed in the brig for 90 days.
I don't think they shoot officers in the Navy, pete.
Since they don't have planks to walk them from or yeardarms to hang them from anymore,maybe shooting them is something the Navy needs to start doing?
Most people probably think I'm kidding,but I'm not. The military isn't a regular job,and the officers and NCO's are not only responsible for the lives of the people under their command,they also have the authority to order them to put their lives at risk in combat. Any system based on that sort of structure MUST be a system where the officers and NCO's are above reproach and can be trusted to look after the people under them.
Granted,the US Navy isn't really a combat branch of the service any more,but the NCO's and Officers are still in decision-making positions where they can order those under them to risk their lives.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
WHAT? If you laughed at MASH, or watched a WW II movie you would know that this is an accepted and acceptable practice. It is not the #1 reason should not be fully integrated into the military, but it is #'s 2-10. I know, modern liberals have repealed the "law of the jungle". All men must see women as Comrades, women must see men as Comrades. There is no sex in the subs, Mommy Govt told them so.
WHAT? If you laughed at MASH, or watched a WW II movie you would know that this is an accepted and acceptable practice.
Do you think Star Wars is a documentary,too?
Movies and tv shows ain't real life,and respect is a two-way street.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
If my daughter were on a submarine with men 18-25 years old, I would not like that they did this, but then again I would tell her I TOLD YOU SO.
The reason the shows were funny is THEY ARE TOTALLY REALISTIC. Put young men and young women together separated by nothing but a little bit of ingenuity and effort, they are gonna peek. They are also going to practice a bit of sex, no matter the punishment for it. It is as natural as getting wet if you fall in a lake. That is the reason they don't belong in military units together, on sports teams together, or in hotel suites together.
Would I want my wife to spend 6 months in a locked submarine with 40 men? Hell no, not going to happen. It isn't an issue of trust, it is just logical.
For the same reason I wouldn't want a homosexual male among straight males. Yes, temptation will happen for same or opposite sexual attraction. Ask prisoners in the local lockup.
If you place sexual beings into tight quarters for extended periods of time, they will have sex. Especially those that see nothing wrong with sodomy.
I would harshly punish homosexuals for something like this, it destroys friendships, at least among real men.
Sexually normal people just need environmental controls, like no women in their barracks, ships or boats.
If my daughter were on a submarine with men 18-25 years old, I would not like that they did this, but then again I would tell her I TOLD YOU SO.
I am looking at it from the POV of a former career NCO in the US Army. As a NCO or officer you are responsible for the well-being and protection of those under you. There was nothing at all mutual about this,and some of the people involved in it were career NCO's and Officers who understood their duty and turned these scumbuckets in.
Mutual sexual events amongst people of like rank and stature in the organization is a whole different matter. I was friends with and called some officers by their first names when we were off duty or no one else was around,but I did NOT do this when others were around or they were acting in their roles of commanders.
I personally don't think men and women should serve together in combat ground force units,or on small Navy ships like submarines that stay out to sea for extended periods of time without shore leave,and morality has nothing to do with it. My objection is it will ALWAYS create problems that end up affecting the performance of the unit,and in some cases can cost lives and the loss of expensive equipment. If soldiers and soldierettes want to date and they are in different non-combat units,that's fine with me.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
I agree with you on everything you just wrote. I still believe that the females that push for and enjoy being on surface or subsurface vessels, cannot be surprised. A man may be totally honorable, but put him on a deserted island with a shipload of female castaways, he is going to forget about his wife. Our country has gone insane, and I don't mean that metaphorically. The only way to keep males and females apart, is to keep them apart. Don't put them in situations where they person they could lust after, is in the same unit, or on the same ship.
What strikes me as bizarre is that the Navy apparently did nothing to cover up these tiny peepholes around the head and the changing rooms. Surely they know how to make a compartment more tight. It is a sub after all.
The subs and the ships should all be verified to be free of peepholes. You could also have instances where someone might make vids of Navy men to sell on the internet or to trade among collectors. There's a perv for everything on the internet, for every variety of "hidden cam" peepshow stuff.
The captain had forbidden these smaller devices like the iPod, allowing only tablets of 7" or greater. That sort of device with camera poses additional security risks. Recently, there was a case of a sub sailor prosecuted under the official secrets act because he took a few photos of vital control panels on the sub. The gauges made it clear what the operating range of the subsystems were, valuable information for a capable enemy like the Chinese or Russians. I think they were prosecuting him, asking for 30 years in prison for that. He didn't do anything with the photos, threw the phone away in a landfill which is where the Navy recovered it from, as I recall.
I bet the Navy is going to get a lot more strict about any gadgets than anyone is allowed to carry onto a sub or Navy ship. I wouldn't be surprised if they started doing searches and running some gear to detect if anyone is using an unauthorized device.
It is a serious security issue, one the Navy has obviously neglected.
I bet the Navy is going to get a lot more strict about any gadgets than anyone is allowed to carry onto a sub or Navy ship. I wouldn't be surprised if they started doing searches and running some gear to detect if anyone is using an unauthorized device.
Whoever the CMMFIC is that makes these decisions needs to be booted out of the Navy and lose his or her retirement. This is basic stuff,and I see duty aboard a boomer or an attack sub as the equivalent of a SF team going into isolation before a deployment,and every item they have with them inspected for the ability to become a security violation,and any found seized.
These people are supposed to be professionals,so they damn sure need to start conducting themselves in a professional manner.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
These people are supposed to be professionals,so they damn sure need to start conducting themselves in a professional manner.
You would think they would raise the issue too. But everyone loves their little iPads and such.
When you recall things like the Walker family spy ring that operated for decades in the Navy, there is real need to batten down the hatches. And ban the gadgets.
When you recall things like the Walker family spy ring that operated for decades in the Navy, there is real need to batten down the hatches. And ban the gadgets.
IIRC,the only reason they caught John Walker was because he retired,and then tried to recruit his child who had joined the Navy to steal and furnish classified documents to him to sell to the Russians. Can't remember if they kid got caught and ratted him out for a deal,or if they kid just thought it was wrong and reported him.
Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)
American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.
