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Title: Trump booed by GOP Jews
Source: CBS News
URL Source: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald- ... blican-jewish-coalition-event/
Published: Dec 4, 2015
Author: Sopan Deb
Post Date: 2015-12-04 06:30:48 by Willie Green
Keywords: None
Views: 2268
Comments: 28

The front runner for the Republican nomination, Donald Trump, is not used to icy receptions. That's why - it may have been jarring for the business mogul to be openly booed at the Republican Jewish Coalition Presidential forum on Thursday, where every single GOP candidate appeared, except for Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul.

The jeering happened when a moderator, who asked questions after Trump's speech, asked Trump if he would unequivocally name Jerusalem as the unquestioned capital of Israel.

"You know what I want to do? I want to wait till I meet with Bibi, you know, I'm leaving for Israel in a very short period of time."

Trump was referring to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, while most Republican presidential candidates were resolute in their stance that Jerusalem should be the capital.

"Who's the wise guy?" Trump responded to the jeers. "Do me a favor, just relax, okay? You'll like me very much, believe me."

The speech itself had its own issues. Trump openly told the audience that he didn't think he would get their support.

"You're not gonna support me because I don't want your money. You want to control your politicians, that's fine. Five months ago I was with you," Trump said. "I do want your support, but I don't want your money."

Former President George W. Bush Press Secretary Ari Fleischer found this assertion "offensive" and a "woeful misread" of the Republican Jewish Coalition.

Some audience members found Trump's speech offensive. During the speech, attendees could be seen shaking their heads in disbelief and with faces buried in their hands.

The eyebrow raising comments kept coming, such as when Trump told the room that he's a negotiator, "like you folks."

"Is there anybody that doesn't renegotiate deals in this room?" Trump said. "This room negotiates them, perhaps more than any other room I've ever spoken in."

The rest of the speech was received with polite applause and chuckles.

Later on Thursday, the Anti-Defamation League said in a statement that it reviewed Trump's remarks and concluded that -- unlike in other cases -- Trump was not trying to be offensive.

"In this case he is speaking to a group of Jewish Republicans, a significant portion of whom are business people," ADL CEO Jonathan A. Greenblatt said in a statement. "We do not believe he intended his comments regarding negotiations and money to relate specifically to their Jewishness, but we understand that they could be interpreted that way. We encourage him to clarify that this was not his intention, and that he rejects the traditional stereotypes about Jews and money."

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#1. To: Willie Green (#0)

Wonder how many in the crowd booing were Obunghole supporters ?

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't

Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.

There are no Carthaginian terrorists.

“The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his.” - George S. Patton

Stoner  posted on  2015-12-04   7:06:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Willie Green (#0)

Wow ! The man is even more tone deaf than I imagined. I'm suprised he didn't mention "diamond merchants" and "interlopers " . Maybe I should wait until he begins to react to the criticism . Can a physical description like a 'hook nose ' be far behind ? If he meant his comments to be amusing then the audience obviously wasn't buying it .

The article did not mention that Trump also blamed Israel for the lack of peace. “I don’t know that Israel has the commitment to make [a peace agreement],”

I assure him that if he meets with Bibi ;he will be told that Bibi wants Jerusalem recognized as the Israeli capitol.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

tomder55  posted on  2015-12-04   7:53:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Willie Green (#0)

The speech itself had its own issues. Trump openly told the audience that he didn't think he would get their support.

"You're not gonna support me because I don't want your money. You want to control your politicians, that's fine. Five months ago I was with you," Trump said. "I do want your support, but I don't want your money."

Former President George W. Bush Press Secretary Ari Fleischer found this assertion "offensive" and a "woeful misread" of the Republican Jewish Coalition.

Sounds to me like Trump has a perfect understanding of Jewish Republicans. They don't give a damn about America,all they care about is Israel. Because of this they don't want to back any candidate that is not bought and paid for,and who can be relied on to vote Pro-Israel on every issue,including ones damaging to America.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.

sneakypete  posted on  2015-12-04   8:11:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Stoner (#1)

Wonder how many in the crowd booing were Obunghole supporters ?

None,except in a secondary way. They are first,foremost,and ONLY supporters of Israel. America is just where they hide in safety and make their money.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.

sneakypete  posted on  2015-12-04   8:12:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: tomder55 (#2) (Edited)

Wow ! The man is even more tone deaf than I imagined. I'm suprised he didn't mention "diamond merchants" and "interlopers "

You have a problem with the truth?

If American Jews are so damn worried about Israel,they should pack up and move their asses where their hearts lie.

Good riddance to treasonous trash.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

American Indians had open borders. Look at how well that worked out for them.

sneakypete  posted on  2015-12-04   8:14:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Stoner (#1)

"Wonder how many in the crowd booing were Obunghole supporters ?"

Statistically, 72%.

So f**k 'em. They're not voting Republican anyways.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-12-04   8:51:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: tomder55 (#2)

"he will be told that Bibi wants Jerusalem recognized as the Israeli capitol."

Bibi wants this. Bibi wants that. Bibi wants everything.

Meaning Trump is correct. Bibi has zero interest in negotiating for peace.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-12-04   8:56:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Willie Green (#0)

"Trump booed by GOP Jews"

Not a good idea with Trump. He has repeatedly said, "If you like me, I like you."

misterwhite  posted on  2015-12-04   8:59:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: misterwhite (#6)

Wonder how many in the crowd booing were Obunghole supporters ?"

Statistically, 72%.

So f**k 'em. They're not voting Republican anyways.

ummm ....he was speaking to the Republican Jewish Coalition.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

tomder55  posted on  2015-12-04   9:02:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: tomder55 (#9)

"mmm ....he was speaking to the Republican Jewish Coalition."

Given that they represent only 28% of the Jewish vote, they're in no position to disrespect the likely candidate.

If Hillary announces that she's going to kiss Israel's ass, even that meager 28% is in jeopardy.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-12-04   11:25:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: sneakypete (#3)

Sounds to me like Trump has a perfect understanding of Jewish Republicans. They don't give a damn about America.

Too many of them are only interested in one area, presenting themselves as victims of perpetual dicsrimination and the haulocaust while demanding others roll on the ground in guilt and agree with them as restitution.

rlk  posted on  2015-12-04   11:42:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: misterwhite (#10)

Not only does he not get that he's invoking crude stereotypes . When it’s pointed out to him he still doesn’t get it. You’d think at least his handlers would know better. But again he will go on the offensive an attack his critics . Waiting for him to use a'Shylock ' reference The pound of flesh which I demand of him Is deerely bought, 'tis mine, and I will haue it.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

tomder55  posted on  2015-12-04   12:16:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: misterwhite (#6)

" f**k 'em "

LOL, yep !

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't

Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.

There are no Carthaginian terrorists.

“The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his.” - George S. Patton

Stoner  posted on  2015-12-04   13:22:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: tomder55 (#12)

Trump just may be the 'guy' who can get an Arab-Israel peace deal. Maybe a full 7 years of peace promised...Hey wait a minute....

redleghunter  posted on  2015-12-04   13:38:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Stoner (#13)

It's no secret how Trump treats those who like him vs those who don't. We've seen example after example.

So if some group doesn't support him, they shouldn't expect any favors. Make sense?

misterwhite  posted on  2015-12-04   13:39:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: misterwhite (#15)

It's no secret how Trump treats those who like him vs those who don't. We've seen example after example.

So if some group doesn't support him, they shouldn't expect any favors. Make sense?

That's the first rule of politics, "You dance with person who brought you to the dance." Jews are against us, they finance our enemies, they vote against us in NYC (and again in Florida) under the 1 Jew, 2 votes principle. They have done everything possible to frustrate an America First policy, and they have no right to expect anything other than an America First foreign policy.

They brought Obama to the dance, he's the one they need to dance with, he is the culmination of everything they have struggled for since the arrived as "refugees" from Russia. They made their bed, they can sleep in it. We owe them zero, nada, zilch!

Non auro, sed ferro, recuperando est patria

nativist nationalist  posted on  2015-12-04   13:56:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: misterwhite (#15)

" So if some group doesn't support him, they shouldn't expect any favors. Make sense? "

It sure does, completely!

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't

Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.

There are no Carthaginian terrorists.

“The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his.” - George S. Patton

Stoner  posted on  2015-12-04   14:17:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: tomder55 (#2)

I assure him that if he meets with Bibi ;he will be told that Bibi wants Jerusalem recognized as the Israeli capitol.

Trump knows that. We all do.

The key is that Israel WANTS THAT, BADLY.

The Republican politicians are all falling over themselves to tell Jews what they want to hear.

Trump knows that Israel wants the US to recognize that Jerusalem is the capital, and he's probably willing to do that too IN EXCHANGE FOR SOMETHING WE WANT.

When your counterparty wants something bad - and Israel and American Jews do - you don't just give it to him without making him give something that YOU want bad. The Israelis are not going just up and give us what we want.

But they may IN EXCHANGE for something THEY want.

Trump is going to meet with Netanyahu. He'll tell Netanyahu was HE wants, in exchange for the declaration regarding Jerusalem.

So, seeing Trump tell the Jews them to pipe down and talking "Let's make a deal" to them is refreshing.

Trump speaks for most Americans.

Even the ADL gets this.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-12-04   15:56:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: tomder55 (#12)

Not only does he not get that he's invoking crude stereotypes . When it’s pointed out to him he still doesn’t get it.

He gets it. And he's taunting them a bit, playing with them. It's part of a negotiation. What it says is: "I am not the slightest bit intimidated by you, and I'm not afraid to use stereotypes that I know you don't like to get under your skin, so that you behave irrationally - and I want you to know that. Everybody's afraid of the Jews, but I'm not. If you play ball with me, you'll get something you want: Jerusalem as the capital. But if you don't, if you start throwing the "anti-Semite" card at me, I'm going to up the ante and start mocking you. And when I do, you'll find out just how many people in America really ARE anti-Semitic, and they'll back me. And if that happens, you will lose something you already have. So you had better play ball with me."

That's what he is saying.

The ADL gets it.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-12-04   16:00:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Vicomte13 (#18)

The 1948 UN plan for Jerusalem was to make it an international city administered by the UN. This way, ALL religions could access it freely.

Giving all of Jerusalem to Israel is guaranteed to cause problems.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-12-04   16:44:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: misterwhite (#20) (Edited)

Giving all of Jerusalem to Israel is guaranteed to cause problems.

There are always problems.

If we get something good for it, it'll be worth the problems.

Making Arabs happy, or trying to (they're never happy) has gotten us dead.

Palestinians may have had legitimate grievances once, but I'm all "grievanced out" when it comes to Muslims. They are acolytes of a savage religion whose very terms make them an automatic enemy and impossible to trust.

Announcing the Jerusalem is Israel inflicts a PERMANENT loss on Islam. They've killed so many of my people, I am looking for inflicting permanent losses on them now.

Jerusalem is as good a start as any.

And if it starts a war? Roach motel.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-12-04   17:18:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Vicomte13 (#21)

You seem to have a slight aversion or apathy (?) for Middle Easterners

ebonytwix  posted on  2015-12-04   17:39:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: ebonytwix (#22)

I have an aversion to Muslims, because I know what their god commands of them, and it is evil.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-12-04   18:35:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Vicomte13 (#21)

"Announcing the Jerusalem is Israel inflicts a PERMANENT loss on Islam."

Thereby guaranteeing permanent conflict.

"They've killed so many of my people, I am looking for inflicting permanent losses on them now."

How many Palestinians lost their homes and lands to the Israelis? What happened to the Palestinian state created by UN181 -- the same Resolution that created Israel? Why does Israel continue to ignore UN 242 and 338? Why is Israel violating the Geneva convention by transferring Israeli citizens to the West Bank and East Jerusalem?

Then after 40 years of this bullshit the Palestinians get upset and launch a few Estes rockets -- and you claim THEY'RE to blame?

misterwhite  posted on  2015-12-04   19:11:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: misterwhite (#24)

Then after 40 years of this bullshit the Palestinians get upset and launch a few Estes rockets -- and you claim THEY'RE to blame?

No, that's not it. Here's the way I look at it.

4000 years ago, the land that is today Israel was occupied by Canaanites. They had a particularly evil religion, with human sacrifice and sexual slavery for temple prostitution.

About 3500 years ago, God freed the slaves of Egypt, herded them into Canaan and used them to drive out the Canaanites, for their evil. God gave the land of Canaan, redubbed "Israel" to these descendants of ex-slaves, and promised them that particular land for as long as they obeyed the laws he gave them.

They did for awhile, but then they fell away. They divided the land into two kingdoms which warred with each other. Eventually, God sent the Assyrians to destroy the Northern of those two kingdoms for good. The Southern kingdom continued on as a remnant with the refugees from the northern kingdom and its own people until it too was conquered a generation later by the Babylonians.

The Babylonians took some of those people of the southern kingdom, of Judah, into exile, in Babylon, and they remained in Babylon, having children there, for nearly a century. There, they learned much, recommitted themselves to law of the God who had brought their distant ancestors, the slaves, out of Egypt. The Babylonian Empire was conquered by the Persian Empire, and the Persians granted the Israelites in exile to return to Judah. And so these people, now properly dubbed "Jews" returned to Jerusalem and rebuilt it, as a vassal state within the Persian Empire.

Several hundred years later, circa 335 BC, the Persian Empire, including Judah, was conquered by Alexander the Great. The Persians had conquered all of the ancient empires of the East, so by conquering Persia, Alexander and his Macedonian Greeks also conquered Egypt, Babylon, Assyria, the land that is today Turkey, the Phonecian (Lebanese) cities, Iran, and much of what is today Pakistan and Afghanistan.

When he died, the regions were divided among successors and fought. Within one of the successor states, that of the Greek general Seleucus, say the little satrapy called Judah. The region changed hands between the Greek Seleucid rulers of the Levant, and the Greek Ptolemaic rulers of Egypt, but the Seleucids got the upper hand.

They attempted to "Hellenize"the region, and that put them in collision with the Jews, who rebelled under the Maccabeeans. They wriggled free, somewhat, and maintain a precarious independence as war raged about them.

The Maccabean Jewish rebels were zealots, but many Jews preferred the Greek ways, so there was tension in the society, between modernizers and traditionalists. The modernizers sought to be more Greek, and it was from them that the Jewish royal line came. The traditionalists sought to be more Jewish and precise than the Jews of old, with precision measured by keeping the written law which, theretofore, had often been honored in the breach. (We know this because the Biblical books of the prophets span some 1500 years, and the prophets are constantly exhorting the Hebrews, then the Jews, to actually FOLLOW God's law if they wanted to be prosperous and keep the land. These traditionalists and legalists became the Pharisees. The rebels among them, the Zealots. The mystics, the Essenes. The priests, the Sadduccees.

It was all very complicated, but it pertained, in essence, to a city state and its environs.

In the wider world, the Greeks sided with the Carthaginians against the Romans, and the Romans in succession defeated the Carthaginians and conquered their territories, and then defeated and conquered the Greeks in their homeland and in their wider Empire. And so in the first century BC, the Levant, including the land called Judah and Samaria, passed under Roman rule.

The Jews were divided into four client states of the Roman Empire, each ruled by Hellenized Jewish rulers.

Thus was the state of affairs when God entered the world as a human baby, in the land of Judah, specifically in Bethlehem, at some point between 4 BC and 2 AD.

The trajectory of Christ is well known. When he was in his early 30s, in 33 AD, he came to Jerusalem to preach at Passover. He was arrested by the Temple Authorities, tried by them and found guilty of blasphemy, handed over to the Romans, who executed him.

Three things happened in the time right around Jesus' death. First, he pronounced doom on Jewish Israel as a special covenanted state with God. He used the parable of a vineyard, with Jewish Israel as the vineyard, and a faraway landlord who send his representatives to collect his due. But the tenants beat some and killed others. Then he sent his son, saying "surely they will respect him". But instead they fell on the heir, dragged him out of the vineyard and killed him. For this, these tenants were driven out of the vineyard by the landlord. They were destroyed and the vineyard was handed over to others. In the parable, the Jews are the tenants, the vineyard is Israel, the landlord is God, the beaten servants were the prophets God had sent to Israel, and the son was Jesus. With this parable, which the Jews who heard clearly understood as pertaining to them, Jesus pronounced that the penalty clauses of the Sinai Covenant, by which God had originally granted Israel to the Jews on good behavior, was being revoked because of their perennial bad behavior. With this, Jesus, at the Temple, pronounced the end of the Sinai covenant.

The second thing Jesus did of importance was he pronounced the specific doom of the Temple. The Temple was God's sole house on Earth, and God protected it. But now, with the revocation of the covenant, Jesus said that the Temple would be UTTERLY destroyed, along with Jerusalem, such that nothing would still be standing. Jesus said it would happen in that generation. And it did. In 69 AD, the Roman army under Titus, son of the Emperor Vespasian, conquered Jerusalem and razed the Temple to the ground. Forever.

The spiritual significance of this is that in God's law of Sinai there are many mandatory rites which MUST be performed by the Jewish priests, who are an hereditary line, on the altar in the Temple or tabernacle. By completely destroying the Temple so that there was no altar, and then destroying the priesthood with it, God literally made it IMPOSSIBLE for the Jews to any longer carry out the commandments of the covenant. Now, even if the Jews TRY to carry out the Mosaic Law, they CAN'T, because the altar and the priesthood has been taken away, and they are specifically prohibited from appointing anybody as priests (doing just that was the reason God destroyed the Northern Kingdom by the Assyrians 700 years before).

The spiritual importance of all of this is made clear by what happens at the moment of Jesus' death on the cross. The curtain in the Temple that separated the Holy of Holies, where only the high priest entered, and only once per year, tore in half from top to bottom. The secret inner sanctum of the presence of God was now opened to all, and God was no longer there.

With those things, the land claim of the Jews ended. God had granted the claim to the Israelites coming out of Egypt. It was always a conditional grant, conditioned on good behavior. The Jews did not behave, and finally the long-suffering God stripped them of it.

Of course, they were still technically in possession of the land. It was two rebellions against the Romans that ended that.

The first rebellion occurred in Christ's generation, and culminated in the destruction of the Temple in 69 AD. The bitter end of that war was the Masada incident.

And then, circa 130 AD, the Jews rebelled again, this time under the leadership of an armed "Messiah" called Ben Kossiva, or "Bar Kochba". The Bar Kochba Rebellion was very hard fought, with high losses. At the end of it, the Roman measures to make sure it never happened again was the complete exile of the Jews from Jerusalem and the rebuilding of the city by the Emperor Hadrian (of Hadrian's Wall fame) as the city of "Aelia Capitolina".

With that, possession of the land passed to the Romans, and - importantly - this possession in fact passed WITHOUT any remaining Jewish claim to the land. Their RELIGIOUS claim was revoked by Jesus Christ, the sentence of revocation was carried out by Titus, and the final eviction, by Hadrian.

The "new tenants" were the Greco-Romans, who were rapidly Christianizing. Two centuries after Hadrian, the Roman Empire formally became Christian, and the Greek-speaking East, including the land of Israel - the Roman province of Palestine - was one of the most Christian areas of the Empire.

This became more and more true as the centuries progressed, heresies were suppressed, and Catholicism became more standardized.

As the one true religion of God, the Christians living there had the best claim to that land, because God had given them the victory.

Then, in the mid-600s AD, Satan talked to Mohammed in a tent, said that Christ was not the son of God and there was no Holy Spirit, and preached endless war on the whole world who did not believe in him, Allah, and obey Mohammed. And thus began the great jihad.

A century later, the Muslim Arabs roared out of the desert into Byzantine Palestine, conquered part of it and headed south and took Egypt, then spread out along the North African coast.

The Byzantines fought back and forth for the land for four centuries, but in the 1000s were decisively defeated at Manzikert, after which they called on the Western Christians to prevent them from being overrun by the Islamic hordes. In reaction to that call, the Pope called the First Crusade, which was a success: the Muslims were driven back out of the Holy Land, but the base population was still heavily Muslim.

The Muslims came back, and 100 years later it was no longer the Arabs but the Seljuk Turks. This was at the time that the Mongol Hordes were coming to overrun Russia.

The Crusader states were broken and thrown out, and the Middle East passed under Turkish rule.

In 1453, Constantinople fell and the Roman Empire in the East ended.

The Muslims, ever-relentless, continued to press against the West until they were decisively defeated by the Spanish and Austrian Habsburgs in the naval battle of Lepanto, and by the Austrians and Poles before the gates of Vienna.

So, the passing of Israel under the Muslim yoke occurred as part and parcel of the grand aggressive invasions by the Muslims of all lands they could reach, in every direction.

And so it remained, until in the 19th Century Western colonial power had grown, Turkey was broken on the European continent, and the Muslims in Europe were thrown back to a rump around Constantinople. Of course they remained as subject people in the Balkan population.

Israel was Turkish territory until it was taken by the French and British allies in World War I (Turkey was a Central Power). Then the Levant was divided into a French protectorate (Syria and Lebanon), and a British protectorate (Jordan, Palestine and Iraq).

It was the Western Imperialists, after world war I, in the Balfour Declaration, that proclaimed the idea of a Jewish state. And Jews from all over began to stream back into their ancestral homeland, which was in British territory.

The details of the British solution, which were largely adopted by the United Nations after World War II, were that the British Mandate was to be divided into a Jewish state and a Palestinian state.

The story of war after war between Arab and Israeli is well known, with the argument going back and forth over whose land it is. Some take the Arab side. And some the Israeli side.

But what is the right answer? The right answer is that land belongs to God, and that the people of God, the Christians, have the right to live anywhere in it, and anywhere else in the world, unmolested. That Satan's forces surged out of the desert 1300 years ago and seized it by murder does not establish a true claim. That the secularized British and French took it from the Turks does not establish their right to give it to whomever they pleased. The Jews have no legitimate claim to it as Jews: Jesus evicted them.

But so much time has passed that it is impossible now to sort out original owners. Therefore, to follow God, we must be fair.

And a few things are not fair. That Israel is a specifically Jewish state, to which Jews from everywhere may emigrate, but to which Christians may not (even though Christian tax dollars have made Israel's survival possible - although this is not relevant to a moral argument) - this is unfair, indeed, immoral. God revoked that land claim. Whatever else Israel is, it is NOT something to which Jews have a rightful claim. That they have possession is by main force. And we should not be supporting that.

Nor do the Muslims have a rightful claim. They took the land by main force from the Christians long ago.

Christians have the right to live there, and everywhere else in God's world, in peace, but to enforce that right against obsessive nationalism of other people would require violence, and Christians are not authorized to kill people to take land.

So, the proper answer of the Christian is to take NEITHER side, and to ARM neither side, but to urge peace on both, and to favor the side that allows Christians to live there unmolested and to freely practice their religion.

And that certainly favors the Jews. Israel is not a paradise for Christians. Many Jews treat Christians like crap, and Christians are not able to immigrate into the land of the Savior. But Jews don't KILL Christians. Muslims do. The Christians of Palestine have been mostly driven out, and Muslims in their agitation at Israel and America, have arrogated to themselves the right to kill and torment Christians EVERYWHERE - a right they do not have even in their own countries. Nobody on earth has any right to molest God's people, and any government that does that is an enemy of Christians and an enemy of God.

So, the proper answer to Israel is that Israel deserves our favoritism in the current situation, but not our full support, because the Israelis treat the Christians better. However, Christians should not recognize the LEGITIMACY of Israel, because Israel has no legitimate right to exist as a state there, in that land, from which God evicted them.

Inserting the Jews there was a mistake, and has resulted in terrible bloodshed ever since. Of course, the bloodiness was because Islam is a wicked, murderous religion, utterly unreasonable. The French Canadians were pushed out of part of Canada, and resent it, but they bicker over memories, they don't KILL over them.

The falsity of both then Jewish and Muslim religion are evidenced by the unyielding, aggressive evil by which the Jewish colony was established and is maintained, and by which the Muslim barbarians assert a right to kill and torture anybody anywhere because they're pissed off about it.

Truth is, Jews have no right to be in Israel: they lost that when Jesus evicted them. Truth is, neither Jews nor Muslims nor Arabs have the right to kill people over a land claim to land to which neither has any title.

Truth is, Christians should urge peace, and should favor the side that treats Christians better.

And that's the Jews. Not because the Jews are right, but because they are not killing Christians.

Truth is, Christians have the right to make war on Muslims AND Jews, both, and to drive them BOTH out of a land that is not and never will be theirs (for it was acquired by murder by both of them), if they start murdering Christians.

Currently, Muslims are murdering Christians everywhere, and Palestinians in particular have driven almost all of the Christians out of Palestine. There is no reason that Christians should give any time to the ridiculous legalistic claims of Muslims. As a matter of right, the whole Middle East and everywhere else in the world belongs to God, and Christians as the people of God.

But Christians must not kill to take it. Still, Christians must not take either side of that war, because both sides are wrong and both sets of arguments are evil.

Peace without any legal resolution, ever, is the right answer. Israel and Jordan, Egypt and Syria PROPERLY belong to the Christians.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-12-04   20:52:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: redleghunter (#14) (Edited)

Trump just may be the 'guy' who can get an Arab-Israel peace deal. Maybe a full 7 years of peace promised...Hey wait a minute....

It wouldn't be the 1st time that American Presidents played hardball with the Israelis . You see how well that worked . Golda Meir said it best . 'Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.'At the end of the Oslo process Ehud Barak offered 95 percent of the so called "occupied territories" to the Palestinians.Still they could not come to an agreement. Arafat walked away because he could not agree to ending terrorism ,and he would not recognize Israel's right to exist.

Why would Trump fare any better when his game plan is to put more pressure on the side that would actually make an attempt at peace ?

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

tomder55  posted on  2015-12-05   6:59:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: tomder55 (#26)

Why would Trump fare any better when his game plan is to put more pressure on the side that would actually make an attempt at peace ?

In was referring to a prophecy by the prophet Daniel.

redleghunter  posted on  2015-12-05   23:52:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: redleghunter (#27)

In was referring to a prophecy by the prophet Daniel.

duh ,sometimes I can be a little slow . That 7 year peace should've been a give away.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

tomder55  posted on  2015-12-06   3:48:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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