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Bang / Guns
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Title: Bernie Sanders Responds to Oregon Shooting: More Gun Control, More Mental Health, Less Violence in Media
Source: Reason
URL Source: https://reason.com/blog/2015/10/02/ ... ders-responds-to-oregon-shooti
Published: Oct 2, 2015
Author: Ed Krayewski
Post Date: 2015-10-02 17:58:29 by Hondo68
Ping List: *Bang List*     Subscribe to *Bang List*
Keywords: against Brady Bill, for 1994 AW ban, NRA talking points
Views: 6692
Comments: 43

Wants less shouting, more good policy.

BernieSanders.com
BernieSanders.com

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) joined the parade of politicians responding to the shooting at a community college in Oregon with their pre-selected political pronouncements before all the facts are even in. It's become a tradition. President Obama spoke last night while the media was still nailing down the name of the alleged gunmen.

Sanders posted his message to one of his Facebook pages. He has two, one for his Senate position and one for his presidential campaign. This was posted on his senatorial Facebook:

The American people are horrified by these never-ending mass shootings. Our hearts go out to the families and friends of the innocent victims. As a nation, we must do everything we can to put an end to this awful epidemic of senseless slaughter.

We need a comprehensive approach. We need sensible gun-control legislation which prevents guns from being used by people who should not have them. We must greatly expand and improve our mental health capabilities so individuals and families can get the psychological help they need when they need it. We also have to tone down the incredibly high level of gratuitous violence which permeates our media.

The shouting at each other must end. The hard work of developing good policy must begin.

Sanders has historically been more or less in favor of gun rights. While the state he represents, Vermont, has among the fewest gun laws in the country (and among the lowest rates of gun violence in the country), his position on guns is likely not just a matter of electoral expediency. As Jesse Walker noted, Liberty Union, the minor party of which Sanders was a member in the 1970s, opposed all gun laws.

Sanders' position on guns, then, is more of an artifact of his Old Left origins than mere political expediency. His position earned him the help of the National Rifle Association (NRA) during his first successful campaign for U.S. Congress, which in turn has yielded a line of attack for the other non-Clinton Democratic presidential candidates still stuck in low single digits.

Sanders has supported gun control measures before. While he voted against the Brady Bill, saying waiting periods for buying handguns were best left for the states, and for bills limiting the liability of gun manufacturers in lawsuits, Sanders also voted for the 1994 assault weapons ban and for expanded federal background checks.

Sanders' Facebook comment about keeping guns away from "people who should not have them," then, likely refers to more background checks. Oregon, where yesterday's shooting took place, passed a mandatory universal background check law earlier this year.

The rest of Sanders' comments are best understood when keeping in mind his differences with the Democrats' anti-gun orthodoxy. He mentions fixing the mental health system and the "gratuitous violence" in the mainstream media, both talking points previously deployed by the NRA.

The temptation to deflect the scapegoating of guns for violence by scapegoating mental health laws or violence in pop culture should be resisted. The truth about mental illness and guns is you can't predict who will become violent just based on perceived mental illness, so drawing the connection inevitably leads to large scale civil liberties abuses. Only 4.3 percent of the "severely" mentally ill ever commit any kind of act of violence, while the rate for the non-severely mentally ill is the same as for the "normal" general population. "The idea that mental health professionals can accurately predict which seemingly harmless people will turn violent has no basis in fact," Jacob Sullum wrote after the Sandy Hook shooting.

Which leaves the tired old canard about violence in pop culture. Even as ideological social science researchers insist media in the U.S. is getting more violent, rates of violence in the U.S. are actually going down, with younger social science researchers starting to question and debunk years of confirmation bias, as Ronald Bailey wrote earlier this year. And it's far from clear mass and pop culture are getting more violent in the first place.

Sanders wants less shouting and more good policy making, hard to argue with. But good policy making is easier said than done, and requires a divorce from just the kind of emotional drivers at play in the wake of tragedies. Hard cases make bad law, something learned over and over again. (1 image)

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#1. To: hondo68 (#0)

The 2nd Amendment empowers domestic terrorism & mass murderers.

Willie Green  posted on  2015-10-02   20:43:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: hondo68, Sneaky Pete (#0)

We need a comprehensive approach. We need sensible gun-control legislation which prevents guns from being used by people who should not have them. We must greatly expand and improve our mental health capabilities so individuals and families can get the psychological help they need when they need it. We also have to tone down the incredibly high level of gratuitous violence which permeates our media.

The shouting at each other must end. The hard work of developing good policy must begin.

Commie Sanders comes right out and states we need more gun laws... and Pete states commie sanders is more conservative than the Trump.

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-10-02   20:54:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Willie Green (#1)

Freedom ain't free, libtard.

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-10-02   20:56:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: GrandIsland (#2)

Commie Sanders comes right out and states we need more gun laws... and Pete states commie sanders is more conservative than the Trump.

Sounds like Pete is pretty liberal. Trump is on the record where he stands on the 2nd Ammmendment.

Non auro, sed ferro, recuperando est patria

nativist nationalist  posted on  2015-10-02   21:21:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: nativist nationalist, sneakypete, FireIsland (#4) (Edited)

He mentions fixing the mental health system and the "gratuitous violence" in the mainstream media, both talking points previously deployed by the NRA.

The temptation to deflect the scapegoating of guns for violence by scapegoating mental health laws or violence in pop culture should be resisted. The truth about mental illness and guns is you can't predict who will become violent just based on perceived mental illness, so drawing the connection inevitably leads to large scale civil liberties abuses. Only 4.3 percent of the "severely" mentally ill ever commit any kind of act of violence, while the rate for the non-severely mentally ill is the same as for the "normal" general population. "The idea that mental health professionals can accurately predict which seemingly harmless people will turn violent has no basis in fact," Jacob Sullum wrote after the Sandy Hook shooting.

Trump is on the same gun grabbing page as Bernie and the NRA. They all want restrictions (infringements) on the RKBA.

They trust psycho's like McCain, Obama, Bush, and Kerry with nukes, but not Joe & Jane Sixpack without gov permission, background check, arms type restrictions, CCW license, groveling, ass kissing, and registration in their database of addresses to confiscate guns from.

Ping sneakypete to #2, GI hissy fit.


The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Hondo68  posted on  2015-10-02   22:06:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: hondo68, Commie Sanders (#5)

Ping sneakypete

I did ping him. I even pinged Commie Sanders for you.

lol

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-10-02   23:03:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: GrandIsland (#2)

and Pete states commie sanders is more conservative than the Trump.

You're more conservative then Sneak a Peter.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-10-02   23:05:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: GrandIsland (#6)

Sneaky Pete

I did ping him.

That's not a valid user name, dummy. It's a FAKE name, alias.

Valid user: sneakypete

Invalid fake alias; Sneaky Pete (yourmama?)


The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Hondo68  posted on  2015-10-02   23:15:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: hondo68 (#8)

Invalid fake alias; Sneaky Pete

Is that coming from a libtard that pings to fireisland?

Fuck off.

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-10-02   23:19:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: GrandIsland (#9)

Fuck off.

If I was as stupid as you, I'd be angry too. Have a nice day, retard.


The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Hondo68  posted on  2015-10-02   23:23:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: hondo68 (#10)

I'd be angry too

I'm far from angry. Me thinks you are. When you wake up tomorrow, you'll realize Ron Paul is too old to garner 6% of the vote for the 4th time... and Trump is kicking the shit out of everyone you love.

lol

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-10-02   23:32:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Pure Second Amendment, no add ons (#0)

A solid second amendment position, no infringements, permits, registration lists, background checks, arms restrictions, at all... NO infringements! No prohibited persons, no prohibited arms, no prohibited places. No BS!


The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Hondo68  posted on  2015-10-02   23:38:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: hondo68 (#10)

Have a nice day, retard.

You too!

Fred Mertz  posted on  2015-10-02   23:44:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: hondo68 (#12)

Do you think Rand Paul will be in the next debate?

Is Rand Paul for legalizing heroin and crack like his dad?

Why does Rand think it is ok to run for the Senate and the President at the same time??

Why did Rand go soft on social issues?

Why did Rand beg Trump for some money, then call him names?

Do you think Rand Paul destroyed his campaign when he became Mitches bitch?

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-10-02   23:46:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: A K A Stone (#14)

Is Rand Paul for legalizing heroin and crack like his dad?

A crack head talked to me today.

I couldn't understand a bit of what he was saying.

He reminded me of you.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2015-10-02   23:54:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Fred Mertz (#15)

I saw a drunk whino laying on the street. I gave him a dime because he reminded me of you.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-10-02   23:56:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Fred Mertz (#15)

A crack head talked to me today.

How much did you buy?

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-10-02   23:57:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: A K A Stone (#14)

Rand Paul destroyed his campaign when he became Mitches bitch?

Why did Rand beg Trump for some money, then call him names?

Do you think Rand Paul will be in the next debate?

That's a done deal long ago. He also endorsed Romney. He needs to work on becoming a RINO. His most glaring defect is that he's a REAL Republican.

Trump supports everyone, so why not get some money from the progressive pinhead Trump?

Candidates only need 2.5% to make it into the next debate. No problem.

How come the Donald kissed Bloomberg's ass to get a "gun permit"?


The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Hondo68  posted on  2015-10-02   23:59:24 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: hondo68 (#18)

How come the Donald kissed Bloomberg's ass to get a "gun permit"?

Oh so Trump is for private ownership of firearms.

Thanks for the clarification of your ealier lie.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-10-03   0:01:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: A K A Stone (#17)

Ethel ~ A crack head talked to me today.

A K A Stone ~ How much did you buy

lol

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-10-03   0:03:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: GrandIsland (#2)

Commie Sanders comes right out and states we need more gun laws... and Pete states commie sanders is more conservative than the Trump.

Over the decades, they have had much more in common than most people realize. I'm not kidding.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-10-03   1:34:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Fred Mertz (#13)

This funding chart shows that Christie, Kasich, and Jindal have essentially NO grassroots support. All their donations are from PAC's using them to split the vote.

There is little correlation between funding and popularity ratings. Money can't buy you love! Carson and Paul have the highest percentage of grassroots support.


The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Hondo68  posted on  2015-10-03   3:17:04 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Willie Green (#1)

The 2nd Amendment empowers domestic terrorism & mass murderers.

Yes,but not as much as those who oppose the 2nd Amendment.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-10-03   4:11:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: GrandIsland (#2)

Commie Sanders comes right out and states we need more gun laws... and Pete states commie sanders is more conservative than the Trump.

He is,but I don't expect a shithead like you who could only find work as a cop to be able to understand that.

Or much of anything else.

You are such a big fool you trust and believe Trump,who is little more than a circus carney.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-10-03   4:13:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: nativist nationalist (#4)

Sounds like Pete is pretty liberal. Trump is on the record where he stands on the 2nd Ammmendment.

Grand Island is an idiot,and Trump is a professional liar.

Saunders IS more conservative than Trump because he seriously wants to bring jobs and manufacturing back to America,where Trump wants to import more cheap 3rd world labor. The proof of that is the FACT that he is trying right now to bring in an additional 1,000+ to work in businesses he controls,and the fact that he has hired tens of thousands over the years.

Trump is also on record as supporting BOTH Clintons as well as Bloomberg.

Maybe that is being a conservative where you come from or if you are a Lady Lindsey Graham or Bush Crime Family supporter,but people with more than 2 IQ points to rub together know better.

BTW,learn what being a liberal really means,and then get back to me.

Hint: Jefferson,Franklin, and Washington were liberals.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-10-03   4:19:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: hondo68, nativist nationalist (#5)

Trump is on the same gun grabbing page as Bernie and the NRA. They all want restrictions (infringements) on the RKBA.

Trump firmly believes that multi-millionaires,billionaires,and their bodyguards should all be ALLOWED to own guns.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-10-03   4:21:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: hondo68, Grand Island (#10)

If I was as stupid as you, I'd be angry too.

No,if you were as stupid as him you wouldn't be smart enough to be angry.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-10-03   4:22:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: A K A Stone (#19)

Oh so Trump is for private ownership of firearms.

No,he is for CORPORATE ownership of firearms.

Show me ONE example of Trump championing private ownership and carry of firearms in NY or NJ.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-10-03   4:26:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: TooConservative, GrandIsland (#21)

Commie Sanders comes right out and states we need more gun laws... and Pete states commie sanders is more conservative than the Trump.

Over the decades, they have had much more in common than most people realize. I'm not kidding.

You need to clarify that you are speaking about Trump and Saunders,not me and Saunders.

They do disagree on importing aliens to work cheap in America,though. Trump is for it.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-10-03   4:28:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: GrandIsland (#3)

Freedom ain't free, libtard.

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose, yuktard.

Willie Green  posted on  2015-10-03   4:42:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: sneakypete, Hon duh (#27)

Petey, how many fags are in Hondo's family? Is he a relative?

lol

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-10-03   11:34:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Willie Green (#30)

nothing left to lose

Spoken like a true tax and spend leftard.

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-10-03   11:37:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: GrandIsland (#32)

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose, yuktard.

From that sad-ass hit of the Sixties, Me And Bobby McGee.

You can smell the dirty hippie a mile off from this steaming heap of music.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-10-03   11:42:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: TooConservative (#33)

Hey, I like that song and others by Janis.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2015-10-03   11:46:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Fred Mertz (#34)

You and Willie both. Now I'm totally shocked.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-10-03   11:58:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: GrandIsland, Log Cabin Republicans family (#31)

many fags in family

GI Log Cabin Republicans family


The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul

Hondo68  posted on  2015-10-03   12:02:02 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: TooConservative (#33)

A sad smelly time in our history... the peace, love and weakness period. It's the key that unlocked the closet door and let the fags out today.... amongst other libtard things. It's not a coincidence that every agenda poster here likes hippie 60's music.

I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-10-03   12:02:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: GrandIsland (#37)

A sad smelly time in our history...

LOL. Perfect summary.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-10-03   12:19:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: GrandIsland (#31)

Petey, how many fags are in Hondo's family? Is he a relative?

How would I know? Since the locations and names of homosexuals seems to be an obsession with you,why not ask your rent boys for referrals?

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-10-03   15:08:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Fred Mertz (#34)

Hey, I like that song and others by Janis.

I like Janis Joplin too,but ya gotta admit that Kris Kristophsen brain fart makes no sense at all.

I always found it hilarious that the leftist self-proclaimed "intellectuals" found it to be "deep".

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-10-03   15:10:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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