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Title: Coulter v. Cooke on Trump
Source: Ace Of Spades
URL Source: http://ace.mu.nu/archives/358470.php
Published: Aug 15, 2015
Author: Ace
Post Date: 2015-08-15 09:09:59 by Tooconservative
Keywords: None
Views: 543
Comments: 8

At Hot Air for more commentary.

I watched this on YouTube last night and planned to discuss it since; I'm a bit unsure how to discuss it, because the points Cooke makes -- that Trump has been (or is, depending on the issue, and depending when you ask him) "very pro choice," in favor of the nonsense assault weapons ban, in favor of single payer socialized medicine (he cites socialist Canada and socialist-on-England's-dime Scotland as success stories), in favor of a wealth tax on the rich, considers himself more of a Democrat than a Republican, and of course has donated lots of money and praise to Hillary Clinton and her shady Foundation -- are simply deemed to not matter, for reasons that are never fully articulated.

And of course, Trump speaks vaguely about immigration, and even very recently said there must be some path to citizenship.

When conservatives speak of feeling as if they're in the Twilight Zone, as I think Cooke does here (or perhaps Beck does in that piece Allah cites), what they mean, and what I mean, is that conservatives who have previously told me they could never sell out their Sacred Constitutional Principles and support Candidate X due to his one-time heresy on Issue Y are now telling me that It doesn't matter that Trump thinks Planned Parenthood is a fabulous organization that does incredible, incredible work for the women and must be funded. (The fabulous/incredible parts are parody language, but he did say the "good parts" of Planned Parenthood must be funded -- which is actually the current posture of the law, and Planned Parenthood's position as well: They claim that when we give them millions of dollars, that doesn't go to abortions.)

So I'm not sure how to talk about "politics," because plainly we're in a post-political phase on this Trump matter: Issues don't matter, previous positions don't matter, current positions don't matter.

What matters is that Trump will fight. Who knows what his agenda is -- it is clear watching him make up major planks in real time that he doesn't know what his agenda is -- but he will "fight" for it, whatever it turns out to be.

So I guess this makes the discussion ultra-political, as in "beyond the political," above it, parallel to it: It's not about particular politics, it's not about conventional politics, it's about a rebellion against whatever we currently think conventional politics are, and so the fact that he was once "very pro choice" and in fact could not oppose even partial birth abortion is, for reasons that leave me scratching my head, completely irrelevant to any evaluation of him as a candidate.

So here's the argument, and I fully expect Charles C. W. Cooke to be branded a foreign faggit for noting that Trump supported an assault weapons ban, despite the fact that Cooke has been one of the right's most vigorous (some might say crazed) defenders of the 2nd Amendment, whereas Trump will be labeled a hero for previously supporting the assault weapons ban and, supposedly now, opposing it, though who knows what his position will be in twenty-four hours

So let the savaging of the foreign English fruitcake Charles Cooke begin, even though he's been an American conservative longer than Donald Trump.

That's one of the most disgraceful things in all of this, that the punishment for speaking facts which are not useful to Trump's candidacy is a SWJ style social media shaming.

That said, Coulter does have a point that what the candidates say about immigration "is just their way of lying to us."

That's true, I'm afraid.

But then, Trump has not been "consistent" on immigration, even during his own candidacy, and I kinda think his way of talking about "such a wall you wouldn't believe" is his way of lying to us about amnesty.

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#1. To: TooConservative (#0)

"in favor of the nonsense assault weapons ban",

"You mention that the media describes the AR-15 as an ‘assault rifle,’ which is one example of the many distortions they use to sell their agenda. However, the AR-15 does not fall under this category. Gun-banners are unfortunately preoccupied with the AR-15, magazine capacity, grips, and other aesthetics, precisely because of its popularity."
-- Donald Trump, July 7,2015

(http://www.ammoland.com/2015/07/donald-trump-talks-gun-control-assault- weapons-gun-free-zones/#axzz3itEEXI60)

misterwhite  posted on  2015-08-15   9:24:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: TooConservative (#0)

"And of course, Trump speaks vaguely about immigration, and even very recently said there must be some path to citizenship."

"Donald Trump will unveil a series of position papers in early September, he said in an interview Friday, beginning with a plan to address immigration policy that was crafted with the counsel of Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.), a favorite of conservative activists and an outspoken border hawk…"

misterwhite  posted on  2015-08-15   9:26:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: TooConservative (#0)

The good thing about Trump being in the race is that the rest of the field can talk about issues and not get tagged as 'crazies' and out of touch. Trump absorbs all that critique. So in a way ,he is serving a purpose .

However I still can't see how someone who professes to be conservative can support someone who has consistently opposed conservative reforms to entitlement programs . How can those who claim to believe in limited government support someone who supported a single-payer health care system ?

I still think that when there is a more sober analysis ,conservatives will conclude that he is not good for the conservative movement ,and for the overall prospects of capturing the WH in 2016. Whether he bolts with his fellow know- nothings to mount a 3rd party run remains to be seen.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

tomder55  posted on  2015-08-15   9:34:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: TooConservative (#0)

"Charles C. W. Cooke"

A goody. Another free-thinker from National Review.

Is that your "Home" page?

misterwhite  posted on  2015-08-15   9:36:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: misterwhite (#2)

"You mention that the media describes the AR-15 as an ‘assault rifle,’ which is one example of the many distortions they use to sell their agenda. However, the AR-15 does not fall under this category. Gun-banners are unfortunately preoccupied with the AR-15, magazine capacity, grips, and other aesthetics, precisely because of its popularity." -- Donald Trump, July 7,2015

I will not trust any New Yorker on gun control. Bloomberg, Giuliani, Pataki, Trump, all have sung the gun control tune many times over the years. Recall Dumbya being all pro-gun and then begging Congress to send him an AWB renewal bill.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-15   10:03:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: misterwhite (#4)

Another free-thinker from National Review.

Is that your "Home" page?

No. I hang out at HotAir, AoS, Drudge, Weekly Standard, LewRockwell.com much more (these are "pinned tabs" in my main browser, Firefox). I used to read NatReview more but its website is ad-infested and I dislike their "new media' makeover that is about their third bad website makeover in the last few years. I don't even like to open NatReview in my main browser, usually opening it in another browser with a private session (to avoid their cookies/trackers/ads). I would go there more if I didn't hate their website so much. And the writers have changed. Steyn is more of an independent blogger now, not mostly a staffer there. They also echo too much the neocon Bush-era warmongering that I get plenty of already from Weekly Standard.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-15   10:09:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: misterwhite, tomder55 (#2)

"Donald Trump will unveil a series of position papers in early September, he said in an interview Friday, beginning with a plan to address immigration policy that was crafted with the counsel of Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.), a favorite of conservative activists and an outspoken border hawk…"

"Two weeks ago, I wanted to deport all these Mexican rapists and make Mexico pay to build a wall. Last week, I wanted to deport them but let the 'good ones' back in as legal citizens immediately. This week, I have a brand-new policy as soon as Jeff Sessions writes it for me." - [summary of Trump positions over a 2-week period]

To date, Trump has never gotten involved in the various fights in Congress over illegals when it could have made a difference, especially to Sessions who fought a brave and lonely battle prior to the GOP funding Obama's executive Shamnesty.

You notice that Trump is hurting Walker's polling in Iowa. So yesterday Walker suddenly gets a lot tougher on immigration. He had been soft on it (pandering to CoC) but got tougher a month ago. Now he's going to go further, trying to match (or pre-empt) Trump.

So we will have four top candidates on the two sides of the issue. Trump v. Walker fighting it out on the anti-illegals side of things and Bush v. Rubio on the pro-illegals side.

Anyway, it strikes me that that is the upshot of the last few days on GOP politics and illegals/immigration.

It will be interesting to see if Trump can get an endorsement from Sessions. Trump may also be able to get an endorsement from Steve King, anti-illegals hawk in northwest Iowa, where so much of the GOP's Iowa vote comes from.

Nobody wins the GOP nomination without key and significant GOPe support. Trump has to find (or buy) a decent number of senators and House chairmen to get the nomination. It is the single strongest prediction of who will become the party nominee, no matter what polling or the grassroots think. That is how we got the Bushes, McStain, and Romney.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-15   10:20:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: All (#0) (Edited)

At Hot Air for more commentary.

HA's take on it:

Charles Cooke versus Ann Coulter: Why are conservatives supporting Trump?

Allahpundit

This segment feels like a new phase in the debate over whether Trump truly qualifies as a populist conservative. For the first two months of Trumpmania, the position taken by his fans essentially was that he gets a pass on not being much of a conservative because he’s such a superb populist. If you hate political correctness, if you’re tired of the political class in Washington talking down to you and then making a hash of every policy they touch, Trump’s your guy. He’s a middle finger to the establishment of both parties, especially to the not-so-conservative-themselves GOP. That’s not the argument Coulter and Hannity are making, though. Cooke comes in here demanding to know how two conservatives as famous as them can possibly be shilling for a guy who’s held the liberal position on every major issue — health care, abortion, guns, eminent domain, you name it — and the answer is … well, he’s had a charge of heart. Or he’s a businessman, therefore he’s allowed to play on both sides of the fence or whatever. Or that his new positions, like the idea that he’s going to get Mexico to pay for a border wall, are actually plausible and worth taking seriously.

Glenn Beck watched this segment live last night and then took to Facebook afterward, wondering if he’d woken up in the Twilight Zone.

He is part of the problem when he by his own admission, buys politicians; he said he identifies his “policies more as a democrat”; he makes President Obama look truly humble; he was very pro abortion until very recently; he still says “don’t defund planned parenthood”; he is pro “assault weapon ban”; he is in favor of a wealth tax that would just “take money out of people’s bank accounts”; he is for boots on the ground in Iraq and ‘taking the oil’ from the Iraqi people; he is a progressive ‘republican'; he says single payer health care works; he said he would give people more than just Obama care; the First Lady would be the first to have posed nude in lesbian porno shots; he said that he keeps all the bibles he is given in a “special place” out side the city – and he only goes to church on Christmas and Easter; he is generally not a likable guy; he has around 16% favorability with Hispanics and he has gone bankrupt 4 times.

This is an honest question. I really want to understand:

Why are big name “conservatives” supporting him? I get it if you are tired of politicians, a republican progressive, or you are only about winning (although those who say they would NEVER vote for him is over 50% of REPUBLICANS). Perhaps you are angry and you just want to make someone pay or just want something done and you don’t care how it gets done, but what PRINCIPLES does he have that they are attracted to?

I am not talking about the average Joe, I am talking about Sean Hannity or Ann Colter. How about Savage or Rush?

When Cooke confronts her about Trump’s 24-hour flip-flop on whether to defund Planned Parenthood, she’s actually reduced to arguing that that doesn’t prove he’s not conservative, merely that he was ignorant of how the group is funded because he’s not a professional politician. Trump 2016: Easily rolled by liberals because he doesn’t know the issues, but definitely conservative.

Coulter’s not really representative of the big-name conservatives mentioned by Beck in his post because she’s been more open to centrist Republican presidential nominees than they have in the past. She used to love Chris Christie until his Senate appointee in New Jersey voted for the Gang of Eight amnesty bill. She loves Mitt Romney even now, having once gone so far as to write a defense of RomneyCare(!) in the middle of the 2012 primary. That’s not to say her support for Trump isn’t weird, because it is — one thing Christie and Romney had in common circa 2012 was that they were among the GOP’s most electable options. If you wanted to be charitable to Coulter, you could have defended her at the time by claiming that she was merely interested in maximizing the party’s chances of winning. Trump does … not maximize our chances. Still, if she was willing to tolerate conservative heresies from Christie and Romney, it’s no great surprise that she’d tolerate them from him too. Especially since, with his “Mexican rapists” comment early on, he injected one of Coulter’s core themes — crime committed by illegals, a key part of her new book — into the presidential debate. In fact, Coulter defends Romney to this day principally because he pushed self-deportation as a solution to illegal immigration in 2012. She may not be a single-issue voter but immigration appears to be her number one, by far. And Trump’s the guy who’s making the GOP establishment squirm on that point, never mind the fact that he’s awfully squishy on what he’d do about illegals himself.

As for what Beck says about Hannity, Rush, Ingraham, et al., who are normally quick to call out RINOs for their departures from conservative orthodoxy but seem willing to extend Trump an infinite line of credit, you tell me. My theory is that they’re enjoying his anti-establishment fireworks too but that mostly they’re trying to stay on the right side of their audience by not coming after him. They’re perceived in the wider media and among the GOP establishment as conduits to the Republican base; they articulate the concerns of grassroots conservatives and shape opinion about what the grassroots should properly be concerned about. If they go after Trump as a fake and listeners revolt (Erick Erickson’s still getting hate mail a week after disinviting Trump from the Red State Gathering), it’ll be seen as proof that they’re not as much in tune with the base as they thought. Essentially, their own status as supreme channelers of populist conservatism would be trumped by the cult of Trump. That’s not a fight worth picking, especially this early in the campaign. I’d be curious to know what Beck, himself a famous anti-establishmentarian and a guy who sees this from the inside, thinks is the reason his colleagues are falling in line for Trump. It can’t be that they think he’s really a conservative who’d be as principled in resisting Democrats as president as, say, Ted Cruz would be. Can it?

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-15   12:33:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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