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Title: You Hate It From Barack Obama. But You Love It From Donald Trump.
Source: Independent Journal Review
URL Source: http://journal.ijreview.com/2015/08 ... you-love-it-from-donald-trump/
Published: Aug 13, 2015
Author: Rick Wilson
Post Date: 2015-08-13 05:32:21 by Tooconservative
Keywords: None
Views: 10619
Comments: 75

I’ve come to realize that the Obama Cult and the Trump Cult are two sides of the same personality-cult coin. The cognitive dissonance between what the Trump faction hated about Obama and what they love about Donald is so far beyond ironic it would take a team of trained linguists and semioticians decades to decode.

But I’ll try.

You hated Barack Obama’s cult-like followers, with their mindless stares of adoration, their impervious barrier between emotion and reason, and their instant fury when confronted with the facts about his record, his history, or his philosophy.

But you love it from Trump.

You hated Obama’s shallow, facile rhetoric, with its hollow promises and loose, lowest-common-denominator word-vomit disconnected from any real policy.

But you love it from Trump.

You hated how Obama was gleefully lying to credulous low information voters, filling them with empty promises of economic prosperity that would never come, based on plans that could never be achieved.

But you love it from Trump.

You hated how Obama lied about his positions on single-payer healthcare, gay marriage, gun control, and abortion to get elected, knowing that if he ever revealed the truth about what he believed that he’d be unelectable.

But you love it from Trump.

You hated how Obama rode the wave of constant attention from the mainstream media into office, and how they played along with his game, draining the life out of every other candidate by describing him as an inevitable juggernaut, an unstoppable political force, and a game-changer who was tapping into something deep and powerful in American political life.

But you love it from Trump.

You hated how Obama’s naive ignorance of the real and brutal world of international affairs was papered over by his hollow promises to make the world respect the United States again.

But you love it from Trump.

You hated Obama’s casual disdain for people who weren’t from a major city where, you know, all the rich, smart, educated, liberal people like him live.

But you love it from Trump.

You hated Obama’s elite credentialism, and how he yielded his Harvard and Columbia degrees to browbeat his aspiring-class opponents from outside the meritocracy, and how he used them to cow an already docile press.

But you love it from Trump.

You hated that smug, arrogant, sneering affect that took hold the moment he thought the cameras weren’t looking.

But you love it from Trump.

You hated Obama’s cadre of sleazy, weird, creepy advisers, with their combination of over-the-edge ideological fervor and their stench of petty corruption.

But you love it from Trump.

You hated Obama’s support for bail-outs, too-big-to-fail, and big, taxpayer-funded government intervention in dying industries.

But you love it from Trump.

You hated his comfy alliance with Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, and the odious Clinton crime family.

But you love it from Trump.

You hated his cavalier disdain for private property rights.

But you love it from Trump.

Everything that set your teeth on edge, and raised your hackles and made you loathe Barack Obama is there in Donald Trump. Every aspect of the con game Obama played on America in 2008 – the obsessive focus on one base issue (for Obama the war in Iraq, for Trump, Mexicans), the cult-like obsession, the instant attacks on apostates, the willful ignorance of his history and his beliefs – is present in Trump.

Everything you despised in Obama is there.

But you love it from Trump.

Rick Wilson is a national Republican media consultant and campaign adviser.


Poster Comment:

The writer is a GOPe stooge but he does have a point and makes it forcefully in a staccato rhetorical style.

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


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#1. To: TooConservative (#0)

Rick Wilson is a national Republican media consultant and campaign adviser.

That says it all. He's out to give us Jeb Bush or one of the other platoon of stooges who gives us the same thing he accuses Trump of. I'm not thrilled with Turmp. But if it takes a Trump to loosen the grip the rest of these shitheads have upon this country, so be it.

rlk  posted on  2015-08-13   6:43:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: TooConservative (#0)

I remember the slavish devotion to GW that still pervades much of the "Conservative" forums and blogs today. He set much of the Obama over-reach in motion with his "destroy capitalism to save it" and massive banker bailouts. DHS, Patriot Act, CFR etc.

jeremiad  posted on  2015-08-13   8:14:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: TooConservative (#0)

History does seem to repeat itself, but not perfectly. Here, allow me to do some editing:

You hated The Media loved Barack Obama’s cult-like followers, with their mindless stares of adoration, their impervious barrier between emotion and reason, and their instant fury when confronted with the facts about his record, his history, or his philosophy.

But you love The Media Hates it from Trump.

One could go through the entire piece and make similar edits.

The hatred I have for the media in this country knows no bounds. While I personally haven't jumped on the Trump bandwagon, I do understand (and this writer does not) the intense hatred many of us have for this corrupt institution.

When people say "Trump is extending his middle finger" to the establishment, that includes the media.

And many of us - while not expecting that Trump will ever actually achieve the office of POTUS - are cheering him on.

Rufus T Firefly  posted on  2015-08-13   8:28:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: TooConservative (#0) (Edited)

You hated Barack Obama’s cult-like followers, with their mindless stares of adoration, their impervious barrier between emotion and reason, and their instant fury when confronted with the facts about his record, his history, or his philosophy.

Who is he talking to? Bush-bots?

I left the GOP because of Bush. How many Republicans made excuses for that scumbag Bush and Cheney?

Obama is actually a better president than Bush was (and that is not saying much).

Pericles  posted on  2015-08-13   8:46:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: jeremiad (#2)

I remember the slavish devotion to GW that still pervades much of the "Conservative" forums and blogs today. He set much of the Obama over-reach in motion with his "destroy capitalism to save it" and massive banker bailouts. DHS, Patriot Act, CFR etc.

And paved the path to Obama's lawlessness with his "signing orders" and unitary executive nonsense.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-13   8:48:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Rufus T Firefly (#3)

The hatred I have for the media in this country knows no bounds. While I personally haven't jumped on the Trump bandwagon, I do understand (and this writer does not) the intense hatred many of us have for this corrupt institution.

No matter how mad you are, Trump is not the answer to anything conservatives want. Throwing a tantrum with Trump pretty much allows Bush to grab the nomination because of his advantages in fundraising and deep party support.

And many of us - while not expecting that Trump will ever actually achieve the office of POTUS - are cheering him on.

He doesn't have any actual policies. He just shoots his mouth off. And he reserves all of his attacks for Republicans, never hits at Hitlery and the Dims unless someone pushes him to do it.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-13   8:51:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: TooConservative (#0)

" The writer is a GOPe stooge "

Yep.

And this is just another of the hourly " Hate Trump " rants / screeds.

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Stoner  posted on  2015-08-13   8:56:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Rufus T Firefly (#3)

Good edit job Rufus.

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Stoner  posted on  2015-08-13   8:57:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: TooConservative, Vicomte13 (#6)

No matter how mad you are, Trump is not the answer to anything conservatives want.

What do they want? More George W. Bush but done right this time?

Pericles  posted on  2015-08-13   8:59:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Stoner (#7)

And this is just another of the hourly " Hate Trump " rants / screeds.

Yeah but they're very popular.

When has LF had so many comments and posts?

Trump is even good for LF's ratings.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-13   9:04:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Pericles (#9)

What do they want? More George W. Bush but done right this time?

Some certainly do.

I had hoped we might have one or more that offered a different path. I'm not sure we'll have any.

The neocons may be willing to wait until the voters are so sick of the Dims that they'll vote for any Republican, no matter what. Then they win and continue along their usual path. Consider how McStain, Graham, some wonky neocons were all hinting they'd support Hitlery if Paul was the nominee.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-13   9:06:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Rufus T Firefly (#3)

And many of us - while not expecting that Trump will ever actually achieve the office of POTUS - are cheering him on.

Yep.

If I get the chance, I'll vote for Trump. I don't expect him to win, but I'd like him to die trying, because if he's willing to die trying, he might just win (and not have to die).

If he'll do his part, which is fight to the death, I'll do my part, which is walk over busted glass to give him my vote.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-08-13   9:06:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Vicomte13 (#12)

Oh, Moses, smell the roses.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-13   9:12:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: TooConservative (#6)

No matter how mad you are, Trump is not the answer to anything conservatives want.

Well, that depends. I'm not sure there is agreement among conservatives as to what they want. Some of them think that - given the right nominee - the political system is still salvageable. They're entitled to think that, but I don't agree. To them, Trump is not the answer. They might like Walker, Cruz, or even a less abrasive political outsider like Ben Carson.

I agree with liking these candidates. If by some miracle one of them (or some other conservative alternative) were the gop nominee, I would support them.

But we're discussing a completely corrupted system.

Cynical conservatives like myself believe that the system is broken beyond repair, so it really doesn't matter who the nominee is.

It's akin to having an argument as to which fire department to call now that the house if burned to the ground.

Throwing a tantrum with Trump pretty much allows Bush to grab the nomination because of his advantages in fundraising and deep party support.

What you call "throwing a tantrum" is not the way I see it - at least not in my case. It's just being a realist.

When all the dust settles, Jeb Bush (or another backup candidate like Kasish) will be the gop nominee. With the exception of Reagan in '80, the gop-e ALWAYS gets their nominee.

2016 will be no exception.

Rufus T Firefly  posted on  2015-08-13   9:14:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Rufus T Firefly (#14)

" the system is broken beyond repair, so it really doesn't matter who the nominee is. "

Sadly, that is 100 % correct.

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Stoner  posted on  2015-08-13   9:26:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Rufus T Firefly (#14)

Cynical conservatives like myself believe that the system is broken beyond repair, so it really doesn't matter who the nominee is.

Yes, it does. Or are you saying that democracy was a mistake? That we need a Fuehrer named Donald to replace an Il Duce named Barack and that is the best we can hope for?

It's silly. It's too soon to go lemming.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-13   9:27:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Stoner (#15)

Sadly, that is 100 % correct.

So you don't care if the nominee is Trump or anyone else?

Why even vote?

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-13   9:28:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: TooConservative (#16)

Cynical conservatives like myself believe that the system is broken beyond repair, so it really doesn't matter who the nominee is.

Yes, it does.

If you read what I posted, I pointed out that not all conservatives agree. Some (like you) say that it still matters. Others (like myself) say that it doesn't.

Or are you saying that democracy was a mistake?

Just as an aside, one of my pet peeves is the mis-characterization of our system as a democracy. It is (or was supposed to be) a Constitutional Republic - NOT a democracy.

But without getting into that discussion at this point, suffice it to say this: whatever category the current monstrosity of a FEDGOV falls into, it is neither a republic NOR a democracy.

In the old Soviet Union, there was a corrupt ruling class that held all the power and the wealth, and they had a mouthpiece in the state-run media.

The only difference I see is that our system has two-parties (I call them branches of the same ruling-party). In the USSR, you had a choice to vote for the communist party candidate. In the USA, you can vote for the D or the R. While it gives the illusion of choice, the end result is the same.

It matters not whether or not I drive into town in my Plymouth or my Dodge. They are identical (save for their nameplate). Eventually however, Plymouth went out of business (as will the republican party)

That we need a Fuehrer named Donald to replace an Il Duce named Barack and that is the best we can hope for?

No, we need a Lord named Jesus. But He hasn't come back yet.

So while we're waiting, you've actually made my point for me (in referring to the current WH occupant as Il Duce).

IF the system were working (and not broken as I say it is), "King" Barack would have been impeached. By an opposition party that was put in place "BY THE PEOPLE".

That has not happened. Therefore, my assertion stands.

Rufus T Firefly  posted on  2015-08-13   10:01:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: TooConservative (#0) (Edited)

A VICOMTE ENGAGES A DICK (WILSON, THAT IS)

I’ve come to realize that the Obama Cult and the Trump Cult are two sides of the same personality-cult coin.

WE ONLY HAVE A VOTE, AND IT COUNTS FOR VIRTUALLY NOTHING. WE CHEER FOR ICONS FROM THE SIDELINES, BECAUSE WE FEEL POWERLESS, AND THAT FEELING IS ENTIRELY ACCURATE. PEOPLE ARE WISER THAN YOU GIVE THEM CREDIT FOR.

The cognitive dissonance between what the Trump faction hated about Obama and what they love about Donald is so far beyond ironic it would take a team of trained linguists and semioticians decades to decode.

I'M "TRUMP FACTION". THE ONLY THING I TRULY HATE ABOUT OBAMA IS HIS CALLOUS INDIFFERENCE TO THE LIVES OF BABIES. OTHERWISE, HE'S JUST A CHARISMATIC AND EFFECTIVE POLITICIAN WITH WHOSE POLICY PRESCRIPTIONS I OFTEN DISAGREE.

But I’ll try.

PROCEED, DICK.

You hated Barack Obama’s cult-like followers, with their mindless stares of adoration, their impervious barrier between emotion and reason, and their instant fury when confronted with the facts about his record, his history, or his philosophy.

NO I DIDN'T. I UNDERSTOOD THEM.

But you love it from Trump.

I LOVE TO SEE THE SAME ENTHUSIASM FOR SOMEBODY WHO IS LIKELY TO SMASH THE CABAL OF POWER CURRENTLY GRIPPING THE COUNTRY.

You hated Obama’s shallow, facile rhetoric, with its hollow promises and loose, lowest-common-denominator word-vomit disconnected from any real policy.

I THOUGHT OBAMA WAS ELOQUENT, AND LAST TIME I LOOKED, HE PUT THE POLICIES ABOUT WHICH HE SPOKE INTO PLACE. WE NOW HAVE UNIVERSAL MANDATORY HEALTH INSURANCE. BIN LADEN IS DEAD AND THE FORCES HAVE BEEN ALMOST ENTIRELY WITHDRAWN FROM IRAQ. THE BUDGET DEFICIT IS WAY DOWN. HE HAS IMPOSED ENVIRONMENTAL RULES AND BLOCKED THE KEYSTONE PIPELINE. HE HAS GIVEN AN EAR TO THE ARAB SIDE IN THE MIDDLE EAST. HE HAS RAISED TAXES ON THE RICH. HE SPOKE ELOQUENTLY ABOUT WHAT HE WAS GOING TO DO, AND HE DID IT.

But you love it from Trump.

I HOPE THAT TRUMP DOES THE SAME THING: GETS A FOLLOWING, GETS POWER, AND DOES WHAT HE SAYS HE WILL DO. THE PROBLEM WITH REPUBLICANS IS THAT THEY LIE LIKE THEY BREATHE. THEY PROMISE ALL SORTS OF THINGS, BUT WHEN THEY GET POWER, THEY NEVER FULFILL THEIR PROMISES TO ANYBODY BUT THE RICH. THEY LIE TO MOST PEOPLE IN ORDER TO GET POWER SO THAT THEY CAN ENACT LEGISLATION THAT FAVORS THE RICH (AND SCREWS EVERYBODY ELSE). I HATE THAT. TRUMP ALREADY IS RICH, VERY RICH, AND HE TALKS ABOUT HOW THE SYSTEM IS CORRUPT. HE TALKS ABOUT HOW HE BUYS POLITICIANS. HE TALKS ABOUT THINGS THAT BOTHER HIM, AS AN AMERICAN, THAT BOTHER MOST AMERICANS. HE SAYS HE'S GOING TO CHANGE IT, AND IF HE WINS HE MAY WELL. THE REPUBLICANS ACTUALLY FEAR HE WILL, WHICH IS WHY THEY HATE HIM WITH SUCH AN IRRATIONAL HATE. IF HE TURNS OUT TO BE LIKE OBAMA: LEADING A MOVEMENT, WINNING POWER, AND THEN DOING WHAT HE SAID, HE WILL BE THE FIRST REPUBLICAN SINCE IKE TO ACTUALLY BE HONEST.

You hated how Obama was gleefully lying to credulous low information voters, filling them with empty promises of economic prosperity that would never come, based on plans that could never be achieved.

EMPTY PROMISES? OBAMA DID WHAT HE SAID. HE TOOK OVER AFTER ANOTHER REPUBLICAN ECONOMIC TRAINWRECK. THE ECONOMY HAS IMPROVED FROM THE CRATER THAT BUSH LEFT IT IN. UNIVERSAL HEALTH INSURANCE HAS BEEN BUILT OUT, AS PROMISED. THE BUDGET IS NEARLY BALANCED, AS PROMISED. ENVIRONMENTAL RULES HAVE BEEN PUT IN PLACE, AS PROMISED. WE'RE OUT OF IRAQ, AS PROMISED. BIN LADEN IS DEAD, AS PROMISED. THE RECESSION IS OVER, AS PROMISED.

But you love it from Trump.

YES, BECAUSE IF TRUMP ACTUALLY DOES WHAT HE PROMISES, LIKE OBAMA DID, HE WILL BE THE FIRST REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT SINCE EISENHOWER WHO WAS NOT A PATHOLOGICAL LIAR.

You hated how Obama lied about his positions on single-payer healthcare, gay marriage, gun control, and abortion to get elected, knowing that if he ever revealed the truth about what he believed that he’d be unelectable.

OBAMA DIDN'T LIE ABOUT SINGLE-PAYER HEALTHCARE. OBAMACARE IS NOT SINGLE PAYER. OBAMA DIDN'T LIE ABOUT GAY MARRIAGE. HE CHANGED HIS MIND. AND OBAMA DIDN'T GIVE THE COUNTRY GAY MARRIAGE. THE REPUBLICAN SUPREME COURT DID. BLAME THE REPUBLICANS - THEY MADE THE CALL. OBAMA DIDN'T LIE ABOUT ABORTION. THE REPUBLICANS ALREADY TOOK ABORTION OFF THE TABLE BY MAKING IT A CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT IN ROE V WADE, AND EXTENDING ROE IN CASEY. OBAMA HAS BEEN PRO-CHOICE ALL ALONG, AND NEVER SAID ANYTHING DIFFERENT. HE'S WRONG ABOUT ABORTION, BUT HE'S NOT A LIAR ABOUT IT. REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTS ARE LIARS. REAGAN SAID HE WAS PRO- LIFE, BUT HE INSTALLED TWO PRO-CHOICERS ON THE COURT FOR EVERY PRO-LIFER HE PUT THERE. BUSH 41 INSTALLED SOUTER. W INSTALLED ROBERTS AND TRIED TO INSTALL MIERS. OBAMA TOLD THE TRUTH. REPUBLICANS ALWAYS LIE. YOU'RE PROJECTING THE DISHONESTY OF THE REPUBLICANS ONTO THE DEMOCRATS, DICK. THE DEMOCRATS ARE HONEST ABOUT THINGS LIKE ABORTION AND GAY MARRIAGE AND IMMIGRATION. THEY FAVOR THEM, AND SAY SO, AND THEN DO WHAT THEY SAY. IT'S REPUBLICANS FROM REAGAN ON WHO ARE ALWAYS JUST LYING CRAPWEASELS ABOUT EVERYTHING.

But you love it from Trump.

YEAH, BECAUSE I GET THE SENSE HE'LL ACTUALLY DO WHAT HE SAYS, FOR ONCE. REPUBLICANS NEVER DO THAT.

You hated how Obama rode the wave of constant attention from the mainstream media into office, and how they played along with his game, draining the life out of every other candidate by describing him as an inevitable juggernaut, an unstoppable political force, and a game-changer who was tapping into something deep and powerful in American political life.

I DIDN'T HATE THAT. I SAW OBAMA AS HAVING CHARISMA. "DRAINING THE LIFE FROM EVERY OTHER CANDIDATE"? SERIOUSLY, DICK? HILLARY DIDN'T, AND DOESN'T HAVE MUCH LIFE IN HER. AND ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, MCCAIN? PALIN HAD PLENTY OF LIFE AND GOT PLENTY OF ATTENTION, AND SHE WASN'T EVEN THE REPUBLICAN NOMINEE FOR PRESIDENT. THE OTHER CANDIDATES HAD NO LIFE OR CHARISMA. OBAMA DID. THE ONLY OTHER PERSON IN THE CAMPAIGN ON ANY SIDE WITH CHARISMA WAS PALIN, AND THE SECOND BANANA CANNOT PULL THE WEIGHT FOR THE GUY ON TOP OF THE TICKET. YOU'RE BLAMING THE MEDIA FOR YOUR OWN INADEQUATE CANDIDATES.

But you love it from Trump.

TRUMP HAS CHARISMA. THE REST OF THE REPUBLICAN FIELD ARE A BUNCH OF WELL- GROOMED EUNUCHS.

You hated how Obama’s naive ignorance of the real and brutal world of international affairs was papered over by his hollow promises to make the world respect the United States again.

NAIVE OBAMA KILLED BIN LADEN. "EXPERIENCED" TEAM BUSH FAILED AT THAT. NAIVE OBAMA GOT THE US OUT OF A QUAGMIRE IN IRAQ THAT EXPERIENCED BUSH PLUNGED US INTO. TODAY RUMSFELD AND JEB BOTH SAY IT WAS A MISTAKE. NAIVE OBAMA SURGED INTO AFGHANISTAN AND GOT IT UNDER CONTROL. NAIVE OBAMA LARGELY NEUTERED THE SOMALI PIRATES. NAIVE OBAMA OPENED RELATIONS WITH CUBA. NAIVE OBAMA HAS RESTRAINED ISRAELI EXCESSES BETTER THAN ANY OTHER PRESIDENT. THE US ECONOMY IS STABLE - EUROPE AND CHINA ARE FALLING APART. TEAM BUSH CRATERED US. NAIVE OBAMA LOOKS PRETTY SAVVY, ON HIS RECORD. THE REPUBLICANS LOOK LIKE AMATEURS AND FOOLS, WHICH, IN FACT, THEY ARE. AND YOUR WRITING, DICK, SHOWS AN UTTER LACK OF APPRECIATION, OR EVEN COMPREHENSION, OF THE REAL THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED IN THE REAL WORLD. YOU HAVE OBAMA DERANGEMENT SYNDROME, AND IT MAKES YOU WRITE STUPID THINGS THAT ARE VISIBLY UNTRUE.

But you love it from Trump.

TRUMP HAS BEEN A REAL WORLD SUCCESS, INCLUDING AT CUTTING HIS LOSSES. I EXPECT HIM TO CONTINUE THAT AS PRESIDENT TOO.

You hated Obama’s casual disdain for people who weren’t from a major city where, you know, all the rich, smart, educated, liberal people like him live.

OBAMA IS ARROGANT. HE'S ALSO EFFECTIVE.

But you love it from Trump.

TRUMP IS APPROPRIATELY ARROGANT: HE WINS. IT AIN'T BRAGGING IF YOU CAN DO IT.

You hated Obama’s elite credentialism, and how he yielded his Harvard and Columbia degrees to browbeat his aspiring-class opponents from outside the meritocracy, and how he used them to cow an already docile press.

OBAMA'S HARVARD AND COLUMBIA DEGREES SEEM TO HAVE SERVED HIM WELL. THE ECONOMY IS STABLE, THE WARS ARE OVER, WE'RE CLOSING THE BUDGET GAP, AND HE MANEUVERED THROUGH UNIVERSAL HEALTH INSURANCE. HE WAS AS SMART AS HE WAS TOUTED TO BE. APPARENTLY YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH INTELLIGENT PEOPLE, DICK. THAT'S WHY YOU FAVOR REPUBLICANS, WHO ARE STUPIDER, AND WHO THEREFORE ALWAYS BOTCH WARS AND LEAVE THE ECONOMY IN SHAMBLES WHENEVER THEY TAKE OVER.

But you love it from Trump.

TRUMP IS VERY WELL EDUCATED ALSO. AND HE HAS BEEN MORE PERSONALLY SUCCESSFUL THAN THE BAND OF EUNUCHS BESIDE HIM UP THERE ON THE GOP STAGE.

You hated that smug, arrogant, sneering affect that took hold the moment he thought the cameras weren’t looking.

OBAMA IS SMUG. I FIND IT ANNOYING.

But you love it from Trump.

TRUMP IS ENTERTAINING. HE KNOWS HE'S OVER THE TOP, AND HE PLAYS IT. PEOPLE WHO WORK WITH OBAMA SAY HE'S NOT COMMUNICATIVE AND SOMEWHAT COLD. PEOPLE WHO WORK FOR TRUMP SAY THAT HE'S A GOOD BOSS AND VERY GOOD WITH PEOPLE.

You hated Obama’s cadre of sleazy, weird, creepy advisers, with their combination of over-the-edge ideological fervor and their stench of petty corruption.

NO, I HATE REPUBLICANS FOR BEING SLEAZY CORRUPT IDEOLOGUES WHO FAIL AT RUNNING THINGS. OBAMA HAS BEEN EFFECTIVE, AND IT'S ALL ABOUT HIM. THEY WORK FOR HIM.

But you love it from Trump.

TRUMP CURRENTLY HAS NOBODY AROUND HIM BUT TRUMP.

You hated Obama’s support for bail-outs, too-big-to-fail, and big, taxpayer- funded government intervention in dying industries.

ALL OF WHICH WERE ENACTED AMD EXTENDED BY A REPUBLICAN CONGRESS UNDER THE REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT WHO ACTUALLY CRATERED THE ECONOMY. OBAMA SUPPORTED THEIR CONTINUATION, AND HE WAS RIGHT; THE ECONOMY STABILIZED AND THE DEPRESSION THAT BUSH CAUSED ENDED ON OBAMA'S WATCH. I DID HATE THE REPUBLICAN BAILOUTS, BUT I APPRECIATE OBAMA'S SUCCESSFUL MANAGEMENT OF YET ANOTHER REPUBLICAN-CAUSED FINANCIAL CALAMITY.

But you love it from Trump.

I HAVEN'T HEARD TRUMP CALL FOR THOSE THINGS. THE ONLY POLICIES I'VE HEARD FROM TRUMP ARE: BUILD A WALL, AND HAVE AN INSURANCE COMMON MARKET. SEEMS TO ME YOU'RE HEARING THINGS, DICK. NO, THAT'S NOT IT. YOU'RE JUST MAKING THINGS UP AND FLINGING THEM. BUT THAT'S WHAT REPUBLICANS DO.

You hated his comfy alliance with Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, and the odious Clinton crime family.

OBAMA DEFEATED THE CLINTONS. REID AND PELOSI ARE HIS FELLOW PARTISANS. I DETEST THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE BABYKILLERS, NOT BECAUSE THEY ARE PARTISANS. ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE YOU'VE GOT MCCONNELL AND BOEHNER AND GRAHAM AND JOHN ROBERTS AT THE TOP OF THE SHOW. AT LEAST REID AND PELOSI SAID WHAT THEY WERE DOING, WHY - AND DID IT. REPUBLICANS SAY THEY STAND FOR THINGS, BUT WHAT THEY ACTUALLY DO IS ALL JUST CRONY CAPITALIST CORRUPTION. THEY GET THE CRONIES WHAT THEY WANT, BUT THEY ONLY EVER DELIVER DEFEAT ON EVERYTHING ELSE. I HATE THE REPUBLICANS WORSE, BECAUSE THEY'RE LIARS. I DETEST BABYKILLING DEMOCRATS, BUT THEY ARE AT LEAST HONEST ABOUT WHAT THEY STAND FOR, AND ACTUALLY DO IT. AND THEY'RE MUCH MORE EFFECTIVE AT GETTING DONE WHAT THEY SAY THEY WILL DO. REPUBLICANS ARE VERY EFFECTIVE AT ADVANCING THE ECONOMIC INTERESTS OF PLUTOCRATS, AND COMPLETE FAILURES AT EVERY SINGLE OTHER THING.

But you love it from Trump.

TRUMP IS A PLUTOCRAT. HE MAY BE DIFFERENT. HE ACTUALLY CALLS OUT THE PLUTOCRACY FROM WITHIN. HE REMINDS ME OF THE MARQUIS DE LAFAYETTE, THE BRASH FRENCH ARISTOCRAT WHO PARTICIPATED IN THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION AND WHO THEN WENT HOME TO FRANCE WHERE HE HELPED FOMENT REVOLUTION THERE, WAS NEARLY GUILLOTINED FOR BEING AN ARISTOCRAT, AND WENT ON TO BE THE REVOLUTIONARY PRESIDENT OF PARIS AFTER MORE MODERATE ELEMENTS BROUGHT DOWN THE RED TERROR. CHARISMATIC ARISTOCRATS LIKE FDR OR LAFAYETTE CAN DO GREAT THINGS FOR THE COMMON PEOPLE IF THEY CHOOSE TO GIVE A DAMN. TRUMP SEEMS TO GIVE A DAMN. REPUBLICANS NEVER DO.

You hated his cavalier disdain for private property rights.

THE REPUBLICAN SUPREME COURT DECIDED KELO.

But you love it from Trump.

TRUMP EXERCISES THE RIGHTS THAT THE REPUBLICANS GAVE HIM AND GOVERNMENT.

Everything that set your teeth on edge, and raised your hackles and made you loathe Barack Obama is there in Donald Trump.

EVERYTHIG THAT MADE OBAMA THE MOST EFFECTIVE DEMOCRAT PRESIDENT SINCE FDR MAY BE THERE IN TRUMP.

Every aspect of the con game Obama played on America in 2008

OBAMA DID NOT CON AMERICA. HE DID WHAT HE SAID. REPUBLICANS ALWAYS CON AMERICA - ON ABORTION, ON PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS, ON PERSONAL FREEDOM, ON ECONOMIC RESPONSIBILITY - PRETTY MUCH ACROSS THE BOARD.

– the obsessive focus on one base issue (for Obama the war in Iraq, for Trump, Mexicans),

OBAMA KILLED BIN LADEN AND ENDED THE WAR IN IRAQ. HE WON. TRUMP WILL CLOSE THAT BORDER TO ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.

the cult-like obsession,

CHARISMA DOESN'T OFFEND ME, DICK.

the instant attacks on apostates, the willful ignorance of his history and his beliefs – is present in Trump.

OBAMA AND TRUMP GO AFTER THEIR ADVERSARIES. THEY FIGHT AND THEY WIN. I WANT LEADERS WHO WILL DO WHAT THEY SAY THEY WILL DO, AND WHO FIGHT VICIOUSLY TO WIN.

Everything you despised in Obama is there.

I DON'T DESPISE OBAMA, DICK. I DESPISE HIS STANCE ON ABORTION.

But you love it from Trump.

YES, I DO LIKE TRUMP, RICHARD.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-08-13   10:01:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Vicomte13 (#19) (Edited)

I DON'T DESPISE OBAMA, DICK. I DESPISE HIS STANCE ON ABORTION.

You like Obama and don't really care about abortion.

I notice that everything is more persuasive when you use CAPS LOCK.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-13   10:10:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: TooConservative (#20)

I notice that everything is more persuasive when you use CAPS LOCK

Works for Trump.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-08-13   10:14:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: TooConservative (#20)

You like Obama and don't really care about abortion.

I like Obama, yes.

I care about abortion more than Republicans. They gave us Roe and Casey, and they just re-funded Planned Parenthood.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-08-13   10:18:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Rufus T Firefly, TooConservative, Vicomte13, liberator, A K A Stone, GarySpFc, sneakypete, nolu chan (#3)

The hatred I have for the media in this country knows no bounds. While I personally haven't jumped on the Trump bandwagon, I do understand (and this writer does not) the intense hatred many of us have for this corrupt institution.

When people say "Trump is extending his middle finger" to the establishment, that includes the media.

And many of us - while not expecting that Trump will ever actually achieve the office of POTUS - are cheering him on.

Pretty much my observations as well. I too see Trump eventually flaming out but hopes he takes no prisoners with him when it happens.

He is considered an abomination to the state run media because he will not bow down to them....yet.

If he does, he is finished. If he doesn't he will flame out eventually.

In the meanwhile, many (to some extent even me) see Trump as upsetting the status quo apple cart. The looks of shock and incredulity on the faces of some politicians and cult media figures says it all when engaging Trump. The very fact he uses the same veiled but crass approach the media and libs use and challenges their rice bowls is a long overdue dose of medicine in the dialogue. They are visceral, he gives them visceral back.

I don't think Trump is presidential material as his temperament would do more harm than good IMO. However, being a free speech type, as long as Trump is willing to stay in the race he has every right to speak his mind and be part of the marketplace of ideas.

Sometimes a fishbowl needs a good shake to see where all the excrement is hiding beneath the rocks. And I will again note, Trump has brought the race for the GOP nomination to the front center in the minds of Americans a lot earlier than in the past.

Oddly I think with the media so focused on Trump and the other GOP nominees, the DNC feels their hand is forced to showcase their candidates more. Which it seems is difficult given their frontrunner has the focus and attention of the FBI.

"When Americans reach out for values of faith, family, and caring for the needy, they're saying, "We want the word of God. We want to face the future with the Bible.'"---Ronald Reagan

redleghunter  posted on  2015-08-13   10:45:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: redleghunter (#23)

Oddly I think with the media so focused on Trump and the other GOP nominees, the DNC feels their hand is forced to showcase their candidates more. Which it seems is difficult given their frontrunner has the focus and attention of the FBI.

Trump's entry into the race has caught the Establishment off guard.

The 2016 election cycle began the day after the 2014 mid-terms. Most everyone agrees that is too loooooooong, but with a 24/7/365 Satellite/Cable news vacuum to fill, what's one to do?

So the talking heads declared The Jebster and Her Thighness "the frontrunners" - and all but had the posters and bumper stickers printed up.

All this should have faded to the background, not to be brought to the forefront until sometime in early Spring of '16. The media would have been fine to go back to important things like Bill Cosby or Kaitlyn Jenner.

Not so fast - "The Donald" has arrived on scene.

So he's peed in the establishment's cornflakes by forcing them to focus on the perpetual election cycle sooner than planned. And by doing so, he's forced them to shine the light on Jeb's shortcomings and Xlinton's crimes.

While in the end the Ruling Class will have candidates to prop up if Jeb and Xlinton falter (Kacish and Biden, respectively), they don't like being forced to do what they don't want to do.

That in part explains their vitriol for Trump. And - one way or the other - he will be made to pay.

Rufus T Firefly  posted on  2015-08-13   11:37:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Rufus T Firefly (#24)

While in the end the Ruling Class will have candidates to prop up if Jeb and Xlinton falter (Kacish and Biden, respectively)

Well, Kasich and Biden are better choices for both parties.

They're better choices for America as a whole. If it's those two, we'll be alright no matter which side wins. The differences will be matters of degree, inflection and focus, but we won't have Lady MacBeth or Terri Schiavo's killer in the Oval Office.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-08-13   13:00:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: TooConservative (#0)

The writer is a GOPe stooge but he does have a point and makes it forcefully in a staccato rhetorical style.

The writer is a GOP stooge and the GOPe is desperate. Their turds are not rising to the top.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-08-13   13:06:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: TooConservative (#0)

The writer is a GOPe stooge but he does have a point and makes it forcefully in a staccato rhetorical style.

A "point"? At the top of his point.

"Forcefully"? Yes. In the same sense 0buma's minions were cramming absurd memes and propaganda.

"Staccato rhetorical style"? Yeah, and it's so cute that he could actually believe his own choppy, lying mess of cartoonish analogies -- never mind *you*. BUT...it's what the GOPe-RINO wing does best.

Liberator  posted on  2015-08-13   13:35:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: nolu chan (#26)

The writer is a GOP stooge and the GOPe is desperate. Their turds are not rising to the top.

Lol -- can you believe this desperation? It's stunning.

The GOPe-RINO wing and their turd-polishing shills break out the knives, the bazookas, the brass-knuckles when fighting conservatives; When fighting Dems, these leg-humpers break out the feather dusters, pocketbooks (large ones) and nerf-bats.

Their attacks against Trump are hysterical.

Liberator  posted on  2015-08-13   13:39:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Rufus T Firefly (#24)

Trump's entry into the race has caught the Establishment off guard...

"The Donald" has arrived on scene.

While in the end the Ruling Class will have candidates to prop up if Jeb and Xlinton falter (Kacish and Biden, respectively), they don't like being forced to do what they don't want to do.

That in part explains their vitriol for Trump. And - one way or the other - he will be made to pay.

The Ruling Class, GOP-e, and Media throwing everything they have in the tank at Trump. He's still brushing it off.

Yup, Trump has RUINED their precious schedule and script. HE ambushed THEM. And as they continue to slime their way out of the wood-work, from every crevice, sewer, and out-house, ALL Republicans, conservatives AND Dems are taking note at who-is-who. And what *they* represent.

Liberator  posted on  2015-08-13   13:46:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: rlk, TooConservative (#1)

Rick Wilson is a national Republican Establishment RINO-stooge media consultant hitman and campaign adviser. propagandist.

That says it all. He's out to give us Jeb Bush or one of the other platoon of stooges who gives us the same thing he accuses Trump of. I'm not thrilled with Turmp. But if it takes a Trump to loosen the grip the rest of these shitheads have upon this country, so be it.

It does say it all.

We can plainly see the effect Trump's candidacy is having upon the GOPe Garbage and smear-merchants that have *always* worked behind the scene at the RNC to sabotage and marginalize conservative Republicans.

The GOPe is exposing itself as being NO less reptilian than the Dem Party. No wonder we've noted that they both stand for and support the SAME policy to destroy America from within.

Liberator  posted on  2015-08-13   13:54:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: TooConservative (#10)

When has LF had so many comments and posts?

Let's see...I'd say it was the LAST time yukon and Gatlin were spamming LF.

You're in good company.

Liberator  posted on  2015-08-13   13:57:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Liberator (#28)

Their attacks against Trump are hysterical.

If they have bumped Trump down a notch, they have raised Carson, Cruz and Fiorina. Bush calls himself the tortoise. That's GOPe speak for staying above the fray as the establishment hitmen do the dirty work. The noise machine is not having the expected results.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-08-13   14:07:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: redleghunter, Rufus T Firefly, TooConservative, Vicomte13, liberator, A K A Stone, GarySpFc, sneakypete, nolu chan (#23)

I wonder if Trump has started building a national grass roots organization at the local level to do the necessary grunt work ,like circulate petitions to get his name on the primary ballots ;and get out the vote etc ? I kinda doubt it . He may be the most successful Potamkin candidate in history .

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

tomder55  posted on  2015-08-13   14:28:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: TooConservative (#10)

When has LF had so many comments and posts?

This is about where it usually is.

Since Trump has entered the race there hasn' been any records busted for the top 20 days.

The most posts was when Bin Laden was supposedly killed.

Only 2 top 20 posting days this year. Back in January and February.

There have been many days this year with this many posts.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-08-13   15:13:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Vicomte13 (#22)

I care about abortion more than Republicans. They gave us Roe and Casey, and they just re-funded Planned Parenthood.

You don't care at all. It's just a little moral prop for you to look down your nose at the real pro-lifers and the GOP who are the only voices for the unborn.

You are a pro-life zero. Which is why you are so shrill about the GOP who actually takes public stands and tries repeatedly at the state level and in federal court and in Congress to restrict or abolish abortion by various means.

If Anthony Kennedy posted here, he would undoubtedly tell us how totally pro-life he is and blame Republicans for abortion, just like you.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-13   15:26:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: A K A Stone (#34)

As I suspected, Trump is a flash in the pan.

I have seen him referred to as both Teflon Don and Teflon Trump. I know you used that term weeks ago, though I doubt you were the originator although you may have been.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2015-08-13   15:26:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: tomder55 (#33)

I wonder if Trump has started building a national grass roots organization at the local level to do the necessary grunt work ,like circulate petitions to get his name on the primary ballots ;and get out the vote etc ? I kinda doubt it . He may be the most successful Potamkin candidate in history .

I want to see Trump at the Western Iowa Corn Growers' Association dinner.

Then I want to see him on a hog farm, inspecting the facilities.

These are the usual activities of candidates in both parties in Iowa.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-13   15:28:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Fred Mertz (#36)

The numbers are more then a lot of days. But not unprecedented.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-08-13   15:30:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Liberator (#30)

The GOPe is exposing itself as being NO less reptilian than the Dem Party.

Really? Why is it that, of all the people who rant about that, I have yet to find a single one who actually goes and registers Democrat.

Go ahead, big talker. Go register as a Dim. You say there is no difference at all. Get out. Leave the GOP. Free yourself from the odious GOP and join up with the Dims.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-13   15:30:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: TooConservative, tomder55 (#37)

I wonder if Trump has started building a national grass roots organization at the local level to do the necessary grunt work ,like circulate petitions to get his name on the primary ballots ;and get out the vote etc ? I kinda doubt it . He may be the most successful Potamkin candidate in history . I want to see Trump at the Western Iowa Corn Growers' Association dinner.

Then I want to see him on a hog farm, inspecting the facilities.

These are the usual activities of candidates in both parties in Iowa.

Clueless twits.

You will reach 20 people going to a pig farm.

It is better to do Hannity and reach millions.

Fact is almost everyone who went to the "hog farm" lost.

This is the 21st century.

Maybe he should take a horse and buggy and travel the country.

Twits I say.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-08-13   15:33:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: TooConservative (#37) (Edited)

I want to see Trump at the Western Iowa Corn Growers' Association dinner.

Then I want to see him on a hog farm, inspecting the facilities.

I want to see him eat fried chicken with his hands and then baked beans and cole slaw with a plastic spoon and fork.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2015-08-13   15:34:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: TooConservative (#39)

Really? Why is it that

Because of clueless twits like you.

Twits like you make sure that Trump supporters will never ever support any of your GOPe candidates.

That is what they all are. Save Cruz and maybe Carson the fetal tissue researcher.

You work for Hillary and Bush. That is why you have all day to post on here.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-08-13   15:35:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: Fred Mertz (#41)

I want to see him eat fried chicken with his hands and then baked beans and cole slaw.

When he is President I want him to prosecute shit face.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-08-13   15:36:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: A K A Stone, TooConservative, tomder55 (#40)

You will reach 20 people going to a pig farm.

It is better to do Hannity and reach millions.

Outside of the name calling - I hate that even when I do it.

Stone has a good point - all that other stuff is old technology campaigning. You really don't need to do all that baby kissing schtick anymore.

Pericles  posted on  2015-08-13   15:37:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: Fred Mertz, Toocuckservative (#41)

Tell me what you disagree with.

You can't.

Told ya so.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-08-13   15:38:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: Pericles (#44)

Outside of the name calling

We have all name called.

So anyone who criticizes him for calling the fat ass dyke Rosie the Donut fat is a hypocrite.

Kind of like when Jesus said who is without sin cast the first stone.

Trump is just like the rest of us in that regard.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-08-13   15:42:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: TooConservative (#35)

the GOP who actually takes public stands and tries repeatedly ... in federal court

Which the Republicans control.

Federal courts controlled by the Republicans gave us Roe and Casey, and slap down the suits brought by lesser Republicans.

The Republican party is pro-choice. There are duped rubes IN the Republican Party who THINK it's pro-life, but it never has been, and it isn't going to be.

"You will know them by their fruit." - Jesus

The fruit of the GOP: Roe. Casey. O'Connor. Kennedy. Souter. Roberts. Almost Miers.

"Republican pro-life?" Tell it to the Marines.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-08-13   15:55:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: A K A Stone (#40)

Clueless twits.

You will reach 20 people going to a pig farm.

It is better to do Hannity and reach millions.

Fact is almost everyone who went to the "hog farm" lost.

This is the 21st century.

Maybe he should take a horse and buggy and travel the country.

Yep.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-08-13   15:57:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: A K A Stone, out damned spot, liberator, TooConservative (#38)

The numbers are more then a lot of days. But not unprecedented.

Just wait to election night 2016. You might get your largest showing. That is what happened over at LP in 2012. I think that was Goldi's last large suspending or accounts or official time outs given:) It was rough. Just ask some pinged.

For a segment of internet society so hell bent on not voting at all for either party, that election night 2012 was quite robust for LP activity. I'm sure TC will have graphs to prove me wrong:)

"When Americans reach out for values of faith, family, and caring for the needy, they're saying, "We want the word of God. We want to face the future with the Bible.'"---Ronald Reagan

redleghunter  posted on  2015-08-13   16:06:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: A K A Stone (#40)

You will reach 20 people going to a pig farm.

If any of the candidates want some advice on the do's and don'ts at a hog farm, my 16 year old son is available on retainer:) He raised a Durok hog last year for FFA.

"When Americans reach out for values of faith, family, and caring for the needy, they're saying, "We want the word of God. We want to face the future with the Bible.'"---Ronald Reagan

redleghunter  posted on  2015-08-13   16:08:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: Fred Mertz (#41)

plastic spoon and fork

Your meant spork of course:)

"When Americans reach out for values of faith, family, and caring for the needy, they're saying, "We want the word of God. We want to face the future with the Bible.'"---Ronald Reagan

redleghunter  posted on  2015-08-13   16:09:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: redleghunter (#51)

Of course I did. Thanks for the correction.

Somewhere in the past, I think it was rMoney who was criticized for trying to use a fork and knife to cut his fried chicken.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2015-08-13   16:11:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: Fred Mertz (#52)

Somewhere in the past, I think it was rMoney who was criticized for trying to use a fork and knife to cut his fried chicken.

I get along great with the French, but even though I know they find it boorish, I refuse, in all circumstances, to eat a taco with a knife and fork.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-08-13   16:28:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: nolu chan (#32)

If they have bumped Trump down a notch, they have raised Carson, Cruz and Fiorina.

Carson, Cruz and Fiorina represent the same demo: Republicans and conservative who are sick of the untrustworthy GOP establishment slime of the McConnell-Boehner-Bush back-stab machine.

Bush calls himself the tortoise. That's GOPe speak for staying above the fray as the establishment hitmen do the dirty work. The noise machine is not having the expected results.

Did Jeb really actually refer to himself as a "tortoise"? HA!

Yup, you've nailed Jeb's GOPe-speak for, "I'll be hiding under the GOPe-NWO bed while my establishment smear-merchants and patsies wage war against those uppity conservative GOP serfs."

Liberator  posted on  2015-08-13   17:16:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: TooConservative, Vicomte13 (#35)

TC: "You are a pro-life zero."

Now you're being ridiculous.

Liberator  posted on  2015-08-13   17:19:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: TooConservative (#37)

I want to see Trump at the Western Iowa Corn Growers' Association dinner.

Then I want to see him on a hog farm, inspecting the facilities.

These are the usual activities of candidates in both parties in Iowa.

So you're a big photo-op style-over-substance kinda guy??

Liberator  posted on  2015-08-13   17:19:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: Liberator (#54)

Did Jeb really actually refer to himself as a "tortoise"? HA!

Yes. He said W gave him the nickname and he likes it.

Carson, Cruz and Fiorina represent the same demo

Yes, it is a demo not being pushed by the GOPe.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-08-13   17:25:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: TooConservative (#39)

The GOPe is exposing itself as being NO less reptilian than the Dem Party.

Go ahead, big talker. Go register as a Dim. You say there is no difference at all. Get out. Leave the GOP. Free yourself from the odious GOP and join up with the Dims.

You've underscored THE problem; YOU believe the Republican Party is the absolute domain of the establishment GOP worms who banish conservative Republicans to the back of the bus, toss chicken bones at them while laughing. How dare we be so uppity! The GOP is as much or arguably MORE the party of conservative Republicans. Not the warped version of it that you kneel before.

Based on the Boehner-McConnell "leadership," I may as well vote Dim. It's the SAME POLICY SUPPORT, agenda, and middle finger given to the entire electorate.

Understand this -- I am making a comparison between the fangs and scales of GOPe and Democrats. The two cozy factions are so similarly reptilian, it's hard to tell them apart. Who hates the Tea Party more -- McConnell OR 0buma? Easy: McConnell.

I stand by my characterization. The GOPe and its minions are indeed a bunch of back-stabbing RINO- RATS (R). Trump's improbable support is proof.

Liberator  posted on  2015-08-13   17:40:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: nolu chan (#57) (Edited)

He's content as a freakin' tortoise as his icon? How apropos. Turtles are technically in the reptile family, right?

So Jeb is a slooooow reptile that hides in a shell.

Yes, it [Carson, Cruz and Fiorina] is a demo not being pushed by the GOPe.

But they ARE being pushed by the GOPe. Over a cliff (if possible.)

Liberator  posted on  2015-08-13   17:55:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: Liberator, Too Conservative (#55)

TC: "You are a pro-life zero."

Now you're being ridiculous.

He believes what he is writing.

He believes (as you do) that the Republican party is pro-life, and that the only effective means of expressing pro-life sentiment in America is through the Republican Party.

Therefore, he reasons, that if somebody is not a Republican, he is not REALLY pro-life, because the only effective means of expressing pro-life sentiment in America is, in his view, the Republican Party.

I am not a Republican. In fact, I am very hostile to the Republican Party. I am generally hostile to Republican economics and militarism, but it is on the issue of abortion that I am most virulently opposed to the Republicans. I perceive a pro-choice party that lies about being pro-life.

This creates an unbridgeable conflict between our world views, for he views the fact that I oppose the Republican to be proof, by definition, that I am in fact a pro-choicer in all but name. After all, I am opposing "the only pro-life party."

But I think that by being a Republican he is, in fact, enabling and extending Roe v. Wade, because that is where Roe and Casey originated, and because in all of the Supreme Court appointments that the Republicans have made SINCE Roe, they have gone 2:1 for pro-choice Justices, even while claiming that Supreme Court selections are THE reason pro-lifers "must" be Republican.

You have taken a view somewhat similar to his, in that you've said to me more than once that the Republicans are all pro-lifers have, and that if pro-lifers do not stick with the Republicans, there is NO hope at all for stopping abortion.

I've told you that I disagree with you. I think that in fact remaining Republican neuters the pro-life movement because it locks them under the control of a pro-choice party, giving the pro-choice party power to do as it pleases - but that it will never, ever please the Republicans to let a pro-life majority slip onto the Supreme Court.

Between you and me there is a difference of opinion over tactics, but between him and I there is a disagreement over status.

I do think TC is a pro-life person, opposed to abortion. I am sure he sincerely believes what he says about the Republican Party. I believe he is their dupe, but I don't doubt his sincerity.

However, he cannot accept my sincerity regarding pro-life because I viciously attack the Republican Party as overt liars, as pro-choicers, all of the time. To him, this must mean that I am a pro-choicer who is actively seeking to destroy the only pro-life party, the party that is, by his lights, the very DEFINITION of pro-life. The fact that I am not a Republican, and actually hate the Republican Party for being pro-choice, means that I am either a complete fool or a "pro-life zero" A "PLINO" - Pro-Lifer In Name Only. Otherwise I would accept that the Republicans are the only vehicle there is and support them.

To call me a fool would be self-evidently foolish, so I must, therefore, by a "PLINO", and that is what he says - a "pro-life zero".

I don't get too exercised about it. Fact is, Roe and Casey are the law of the land, and the only way to change that is through the Supreme Court.

And truth is, when one examines the abortion statistics in lands where abortion is strictly illegal, the illegal abortion rate is often as high or higher than in the places where it is legal.

Truth is, statistically speaking, the places with the lowest abortion rates are those that simultaneously have heavy social spending and an underlying Christian or Muslim religiosity of the people. Social spending and general prosperity do coincide with somewhat lower abortion rates on average, but with glaring exceptions (Sweden, with a high wealth and social spending, also has a high abortion rate. Religiosity coincides with a lower average abortion rate, but some places that are reputedly devout have an abortion rate that is quite high. Those places all tend to be poor.

What the statistics seem to show is that religious nations have lower abortion rates than irreligious places, but among those categories states that spend more on social welfare tend to have lower abortion rates whether religious or irreligious, but with exceptions.

So, in truth, striking down Roe isn't going to end abortion. It's merely going to make it illegal. The two ways that actually reduce abortion are through heavy social welfare expenditures, so that there is a strong safety net for mothers, allowing them to risk having a child - this is particularly true in developed states with low marriage rates - and through increased religiosity.

The laws against abortion may matter or not, depnending on the culture and what that culture thinks about the law. It's complicated.

MY solution to the abortion issue is the same as my solution to every single social and moral ill:

FIRST, religion, on an individual level. I have to make MYSELF perfect, or as perfect as I can, in all ways. Perfection in a religious sense means most in comportment with God's will. I believe that that is most fully expressed in the Gospels of Jesus and the words of the Torah and the words directly from God spoken by the prophets. That corpus of text, which is about 10% of the total Bible, forms the Law of God, under which all men ought to live. It is not my place to make anybody else live under them at this point (both because it isn't appointed me to be a judge, but also because I haven't been given any power to compel anything of anyone), but it is my duty to compel MYSELF to live under that Law. All of it.

To that end, it is vital to KNOW IT (the Law), to understand it, and to DO it, as an individual.

Once I have done that, I have the moral authority to urge that upon others, and to use myself as a living example of it.

God knows that marriage and the economic structure of the society matter when it comes to the ability to obey him. Therefore, I view matters of marriage, sex and the economic structures, laws and forms of the country to all be directly related to the matter of abortion, as also is the question of murder, the death penalty in judicial proceedings, police violence, and matters of international war. There is one law concerning killing, and it is "DO NOT". The exceptions are narrow, and men violate them when they commit abortions, or street crime, or invade other countries.

And all the while Satan, the deceiver, sits at the edge of our mind and field of vision and presses us to take shortcuts, do the expedient and evil thing. That must always be rejected. Satan is the master of lies, which is why I am so very vitriolic at political lies, and particularly the political lie that I perceive in the Republican Party, CLAIMING it is pro-life, while having done all it has done through the court, and appointing so many pro-abortion justices, and generally being so pro-death penalty (without God's full due process) and being so pro-war and such aggressive imperialists in recent times.

I see a party of death MASQUERADING as a party of life. I see Satan pulling the strings on a sock puppet, and I see the pious INTONATIONS of favoring life while the policies and fruit favoring death as lulling otherwise good people to sleep. In short, I see Satan holding forth an apple with "R" branded on the side of it, and I go after the lies. Lies are satanic. Bad fruit proves the lies.

To me, everything is always about religion. All the time. When men talk to angels, all they think about is angels. There's a REASON that, for all my insight, I do not work for intelligence services, and it has to do with their assessment of my mental stability, because of the angels.

I am not unstable, I am speaking undiluted truth. People are not accustomed to hearing it, and there's no political purchase on it. Essentially, I am urging myself, and you, and Too, and everybody else, to actually literally be perfect and follow all of God's laws, and that if we do that abortion and murder and death will evaporate from the world of their own accord. Because that is why God said in Scripture, and that is what he tells me directly.

What use have I, then, for a political party that lies?

Too is rooted in a practical world in which angels are not real, or if they are, they don't talk to people. In Too's world, people who hear voices are crazy, not really hearing angels. In Too's world, all there REALLY is, is political action, by united humans, and the Republican Party is the only vehicle for that.

In the real world, God is, and God has told us that if we follow his law, all will be well with is. So that is the "party" we should seek, by my lights: his party, by knowing his laws and personally doing all of them. And then, when we use our voices, and our authority, in all capacities, to remember that God's law trumps all law, regulation and human authority.

The tension is unbridgeable. He cannot see the world through my eyes (and if he did, he would think he needed medication), and I will not see the world through his, because it would be blinding myself to all truth except for a narrow material thing directly before the centers of the pupils.

I write here and steer everything back to a set of moral principles: not killing, following process to kill, maintaining peace, bringing home armies, defending with nukes (because they are such a deterrent nobody ever actually uses them, which means they keep the peace - but if the time comes to use them, you CAN'T use them on enemy cities, not when it comes right down to it. Pressed, it's not a REAL deterrent, because when the choice comes of not retaliating to a nuclear strike, or incinerating full of innocent children, you let yourself be killed and you go to Heaven, and the enemy, who will be victorious on earth, will be judged by God.

Pressed to the final decision you cannot kill the innocent on the other side even when that means the annihilation of your own country and its innocents. And yourself. Because the innocents and yourself are not REALLY annihilated.

When pressed to the very wall, you have to accept death for you and yours, in innocence, and let evil win, rather than join Satan and kill the innocent. You have to choose the path of Jesus and the Apostles and accept death rather than embrace Satan.

Of course, by knowing that and otherwise following God's law, you trust that God will prevent that choice from ever being put before you: do not let me be lead to temptation, do not put me to the test.

Which is why it is not an endpoint to have nuclear deterrence - the threat of committing genocide as a deterrent is not a permanent answer, because God may permit Satan to cause an evil nation to say "Done!" and launch, specifically to incinerate the innocent, and also to send both the attacking nation's leaders AND the responding nation's leaders to hell for their retaliation, that slaughters the innocent.

It is why the task of making ourselves perfect is so urgent - the clock is ticking. We have to be perfect, so that we are unhypocritical examples to others. And when we live perfectly, our economic footprint changes completely, and we draw others to God with our goodness, and by practical things such as the prosperity that flows from God when you are in synch with his laws.

As that moves in a spreading circle, it knocks down barriers and makes war impossible - brothers in God don't burn each other's houses down.

But of course, sadly, to believe that good will conquer the world thus is naïve. It certainly CAN. There is no physical or divinely imposed barrier preventing it. But the reality is that human evil, juiced by Satan, does prevent it. We already know how the story ends: we lose, the world falls, and then God intervenes with Jesus.

But we're admonished that, to be acceptable to him, we have to keep up the fight, and that means not compromising with lies. Which means not supporting killing, like abortion. Which means not lending my assent to a party that SAYS it protects life, but that actually put the laws in place that destroy it, and whose leaders have actively and intelligently made sure by their soviereign selections that a majority for death remains to protect those evil laws.

This is about Truth, God, Life and the Prince of Lies and death. These people and parties are just action figures in a great morality play, in which we are bit players and get to choose our lines and parts.

So, that's all that's really at stake here, merely the eternal life of our souls and the salvation of the world.

And that is true for every single moral question - regarding war, abortion, the death penalty, money, court procedure, truth, healing, teaching about God - everything - every act matters.

Which is why I am not a "Pro-Life Zero", and why I cannot possibly be a Republican either.

It's also why the only possible way that I can lead men is by being in their presence and doing the right thing, all the time, with power, with money, with words, bodily - everything.

And that sounds crazy, which is why God had it written down in Scripture, so that people who choose to claim to be part of THAT party, the religious names, have a binding set of rules that say that.

In short: Be perfect.

That is what the commandments boil down to: be perfect.

To adhere to a group of men devoted to greed and war, and who connive at abortion, would be to yoke myself to lies and blood.

No.

We will be purified by God's blood, and by God's flame.

Fire and Blood - it is the only way. The ONLY way. Which is why these discussions are fruitless, in the end, aren't they? Having said that, I think I should retire for a couple of weeks and say nothing. What could I add? And what difference would it ultimately make, BECAUSE: "TL;DR" - Mankind.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-08-13   18:36:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: nolu chan (#32)

If they have bumped Trump down a notch, they have raised Carson, Cruz and Fiorina.

They are distraction candidates, like Gingrich or Cain in 2011-2012.

You only have two likely alternatives to Bush: Walker and Rubio. (I think Kasich has run his mouth and made enough enemies over the years that it is out of his reach.)

The longer the base voters screw around with the vanity candidates like Carson or Cruz or Fiorina, the more likely a Bush nomination becomes.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-13   18:47:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: A K A Stone (#46)

So anyone who criticizes him for calling the fat ass dyke Rosie the Donut fat is a hypocrite.

Kind of like when Jesus said who is without sin cast the first stone.

No doubt, Donald Trump is exactly who Jesus was talking about.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-13   18:51:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: TooConservative (#61)

You only have two likely alternatives to Bush: Walker and Rubio.

Bush is not an alternative to anyone. A third Bush getting nominated will ensure party failure. His running mate could by Jesus and it would not matter.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-08-13   19:15:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: Pericles, A K A Stone, TooConservative, tomder55 (#44)

Stone has a good point - all that other stuff is old technology campaigning. You really don't need to do all that baby kissing schtick anymore.

But of course that isn't what I was referring to. It's not if HE shows up in the primary states ,it's if he is building the organization in the states to get his name on the ballots ,and get out the votes. It's true that he's getting a free ride by the press who like the side show . But the proof of his seriousness will be when we see state-wide Trump organizations doing the REAL work necessary to win . As an example ,in 2008 ,the emperor opened up 37 field offices in Iowa alone in the early days of his campaign. I don't care about the new technology . You still need the organization on the ground. But that's ok ....Let the Trump think he can win this by doing hour long segments having Hannity stroke his vanity .

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

tomder55  posted on  2015-08-13   19:29:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: TooConservative (#61)

You only have two likely alternatives to Bush: Walker and Rubio.

No thanks. Puke. You're GOPe all the way. Puke.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-08-13   19:52:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: A K A Stone (#65)

In other Trump news, it seems he has hired some big luxury bus and it is in Iowa or will arrive shortly. So we will see Donald out in the cornfields. Sounds like a riot.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-13   20:49:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: Rufus T Firefly (#3)

The hatred I have for the media in this country knows no bounds.

I don't understand you. What is "it" that creates all this hate within you? The media is just trying to entertain you on the cheap.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-08-13   20:55:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: TooConservative (#61)

You only have two likely alternatives to Bush: Walker and Rubio. (I think Kasich has run his mouth and made enough enemies over the years that it is out of his reach.)

I heard Kasich last night on Mark Levin's show. He was speaking in excerpts of an interview with somebody. He was vague and indecisive, about everything about which he was asked.

I heard Trump on Levin's show a few minutes later, live. Trump was vague about exactly HOW he was going to get some places, but he was decisive about where he wanted to go, on issue after issue.

The contrast of the completely flabby, pointless jabber of the professional politician, and the admittedly unpolished but obviously sincere, straightforward bluffness of the businessman, Trump sounded like somebody who had ideas and who know how to put people together to get them built out. And Kasich sounded like politicians all sound - which is fundamentally dishonest and slippery. Trump isn't slippery.

Kasich will not be the Republican nominee.

I agree that Walker and Rubio are the Establishment alternatives to Jeb. But I think Trump is going to Ike them all.

I think Trump is actually going to be the Republican nominee - by bringing all sorts of people into the GOP such that it simply is no longer the GOP as it has existed. I think he's going to bring in Trump Democrats, Trump Blacks, Trump Hispanics, Trump Independents.

And I think that by the time we get to the election, the bulk of the Establishment Republicans will back Trump also, because they will recognize that it's the only way to victory.

Also, Trump isn't stupid. He's not interested in war with the GOPe. He'd like to have their support NOW, because he wants to get in there to fix things.

He says that he knows the "art of the deal", and one the deals he's going to make is going to be assuaging the fears of the GOPe, without, however, surrendering his policy control to them.

He will do it like this: He's going to win the Iowa Caucus. He's going to win New Hampshire.

He's going to be so far ahead in the polls that it will be obvious that he can win, and will win. And he'll keep winning.

Because he's operating from a short list of principles and a set of outcomes he wants on certain issues, he's going to sound good on policy issues. When he's allowed to speak, as last night, he sounds like somebody who can actually get things done. He's going to be negotiating with the public. And every time thee media or the GOPe tries to shut him down, he becomes more popular.

His negotiation with the GOPe is pretty straightforward. He knows they need to be at the table, and having a share of things. He knows they need to be on the ticket, even. He knows it, and he's looking at them.

He said nice things about Cruz last night. There's mutual admiration there. He might run with Cruz, but more probably he will present that as the likely path IF the GOPe won't deal with him.

The GOPe does not have the American public. Trump does, and Trump is going to keep the public, and he's going to have Democrats, Blacks, Independents, Hispanics, and plenty of conservative Republicans with him. He's going to be like Obama in 2008 in that respect.

And he'll show his card that Cruz is who he's working with. Consider what that means to the GOPe. In so many ways, Cruz is worse for them than Trump. Trump's a rock star. They can endure Trump, if they are forced to, but Cruz is already a powerful politician - a US Senator - and he has infuriated a great number of Republican power-brokers. If Cruz is Veep, and then President, there are a lot of GOPers whose goose is cooked.

When Trump's inevitability sinks in, the GOPe will realize that for its own survival it needs to make a deal. And Donald knows how to deal. By holding out the prospect of a third party run he's negotiating with them. He's warning them to not treat him badly, because he will hand the country over to the Democrats if they do. And so the media may be going ape shit on him, but the Republican politicians, besides Rand Paul, are mum. He made a gambit that closed off publicly attacking him, and they are not. So, there actually IS a negotiation going on.

The next piece requires him to win primaries and caucuses. By doing that, it becomes solidified in the minds of people that this is not a flash in the pan, that not only can he win, but that he's GONNA win. Biden cannot beat Trump. Neither can Hillary.

The country will hear more of him, and he'll sound good. And the media bias, about which the Right moans, will be evident against him, and it will help him.

So, as Trump starts to win victories (one ace up his sleeves is that he actually likes people), reality will dawn on the GOPe: this guy is going to be our nominee. We have got to make peace with him.

And so the negotiation will continue. Trump's running mate will have to be GOPe. Carly Fiorina could have been a contender, but she stupidly bought the bloody tampon meme, so she's out - beyond that, she was a terrible businesswoman.

The two possibilities are Walker and Rubio.

From Trump's perspective, Rubio is very much the better candidate. And from the GOPe perspective that is also true.

Do I have to write out why? It's obvious from the Hispanic angle, but that's not it. The big thing is that Rubio is young. Rubio has taken the policy position he has about immigration as an act of passion. He's Hispanic, he really cares about this stuff. When he meets Trump, and Trump listens to him and addresses his specific concerns, and he sees that Trump actually will get immigration reform that will work for Hispanics also, Rubio will bow to his own ambitions to become President and sign on.

And then it's off to the races.

Biden/Whomever cannot defeat Trump/Rubio.

Trump/Rubio will be the next governing team, and when they are, things will change.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-08-14   17:39:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: Vicomte13 (#68) (Edited)

I think Trump is actually going to be the Republican nominee - by bringing all sorts of people into the GOP such that it simply is no longer the GOP as it has existed. I think he's going to bring in Trump Democrats, Trump Blacks, Trump Hispanics, Trump Independents.

It seems that only 40% of his supporters are even registered to vote. So getting them registered will take some work. In Iowa, many of them will not really want to go out for 3-4 hours for the caucus. Otherwise, Trump's supporters skew away from religious, are older and whiter. It appears they are the people who follow him on Facebook and Twitter, waiting for him to say something outrageous. And they'll turn out to be fans of his 14 year show.

We'll see if Trump can actually turn them out in any numbers. Only a few percent of these kind of followers are in Iowa so he might do better there with conventional registered voters than he does in other states.

HA: Analysis: Just 39.4% of Trump’s social media audience is eligible to vote, easily worst among top GOP contenders

Trump discovered today that Iowa has corn fields. He thinks they are incredibly beautiful. Iowa. Corn. Who knew?

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-14   20:04:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: TooConservative (#5) (Edited)

Obama is not a better President that GW, but I forgive him more. He didn't stab me in the back. THAT I do not forgive. Not that I think you said he was, but Good Ole boy Bush was conservatives worst nightmare IMO.

jeremiad  posted on  2015-08-14   21:41:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: TooConservative (#69)

It could be that all of these technical features will prove utterly insurmountable for a multi-billionaire who successfully gets huge projects greenlighted and built in jurisdictions all over the planet.

Or it could be that things that are monumentally difficult for uncharismatic men of little means or talent is pretty easy for him.

Only time will tell.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-08-14   22:18:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: Vicomte13 (#71)

It could be that all of these technical features will prove utterly insurmountable for a multi-billionaire who successfully gets huge projects greenlighted and built in jurisdictions all over the planet.

He needs to transform the fans of his show and his Twitter followers into voters motivated enough to turn out to the local schools and homes where the caucuses are held and spend the evening there, supporting him.

Not insurmountable. But will they remain that motivated through December? I dunno. These are, like a fair number of Perot supporters, people who have dropped out of regular voting or never been regular voters. So that is something of a challenge.

You have to transform these usual non-players into players on Team Trump, ready to hit the Superbowl of Iowa politics -- the caucus -- and win one for the Gipper.

I did notice that Trump has now hired the guy who ran Rick Santorum's 2012 campaign. Santorum was declared the victor initially, then they tipped it toward Romney. (You recall that in 2012 Santorum and Romney were in a virtual tie with Ron Paul so close behind that it was almost a three-way tie.) So Trump has hired an organizer with a recent successful ground game in Iowa.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-15   0:35:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: Vicomte13 (#68)

From Trump's perspective, Rubio is very much the better candidate

You don't speak for Trump. That's your inconsistent perspective.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-08-15   1:56:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: TooConservative (#72)

Santorum was declared the victor initially, then they tipped it toward Romney.

No. Romney was declared the winner. But Santorum won it.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-08-15   1:58:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: A K A Stone (#74) (Edited)

No. Romney was declared the winner. But Santorum won it.

You're right. Didn't it take weeks before they declared Santorum the winner? Anyway, we now know who will be Trump's ground guy in Iowa.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-08-15   7:00:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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