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U.S. Constitution See other U.S. Constitution Articles Title: Man Arrested, Charged with Multiple Felonies for Telling Jurors About Their Rights
Source:
Activist Post
URL Source: http://www.activistpost.com/2015/08 ... ted-charged-with-multiple.html
Published: Aug 3, 2015
Author: Carey Wedler
Post Date: 2015-08-04 10:58:09 by Deckard
Keywords: None Views: 24740
Comments: 92
 By Carey Wedler
Last week, a Denver man was arrested and charged with multiple felonies, but not for stealing, committing fraud, or engaging in violent crime. He was targeted for attempting to educate jurors about their rights in the courtroom.
Mark Ianicelli, 56, set up a table outside of Lindsay-Flanigan Courthouse in Denver in order to educate jurors about jury nullification. Jury nullification is the process by which members of juries can nullify unjust laws by finding defendants charged with them not guilty.
Ianicelli is charged with tampering with a jury, a felony in Colorado that carries a minimum bond of $5,000. He was charged by the Denver District Attorney for seven counts of tampering, and has since bailed out of jail. Ianicelli was in the second day of a planned three-day outreach to educate jurors entering the courtroom about the power of jury nullification. He was handing out fliers when he was arrested. His goal was to inform potential jurors about a vital, centuries-old function of juries.
The practice was first used in America in 1735 to exonerate a man of libel charges after he printed unflattering statements about the Governor of New York (a British colony at the time). Though he had undoubtedly printed them, the jury found him not guilty and set the precedent that members of juries could judge the morality and legitimacy of laws.
The United States’ first Chief Justice, John Jay, once told jurors, “You have a right to take upon yourselves to judge [both the facts and law].” Jurors would seize this right to nullify anti-sedition laws in the early 1800s that attempted to stifle free speech criticizing the newly formed United States government.
Judges first began cracking down on the right to nullify in the late 1800s. By that time, jurors had already used nullification to challenge the Fugitive Slave Act, which imposed heavy punishment on Northerners who aided escaped slaves from the South. Though judges came to discourage nullification, the practice went on to be useful in nullifying Prohibition-era laws.
Jury nullification still affects prohibition against outlawed drugs. In 2012, a New Hampshire jury acquitted a Rastafarian man, Doug Darrell, of growing marijuana—though he was technically guilty of the violation. The jurors had been informed of their right to nullify and found the law and charges against Darrell to be unjust. They found him not guilty.
However, this power of the people has not gone unchecked. Though some states allow for the practice, judges often fail to notify jurors of their ability to nullify. Activists have been harassed and jailed for attempting to inform jurors of their right to judge the morality of laws.
The Fully Informed Jury Association (FIJA), a non-profit organization that educates jurors on their rights (and whose pamphlets Ianicelli was handing out when he was arrested), is one group that attempts to counter these suppressions by the justice system.
Kirsten Tynan of FIJA reported on Ianicelli’s case, stating that officials in Denver claimed a juror had complained about Ianicelli’s presence near the courthouse, prompting his arrest. Tynan was told Ianicelli was arrested on charges of jury tampering, which according to Colorado law, consists of:
(1) A person commits jury-tampering if, with intent to influence a juror’s vote, opinion, decision, or other action in a case, he attempts directly or indirectly to communicate with a juror other than as a part of the proceedings in the trial of the case. (1.5) A person commits jury-tampering if he knowingly participates in the fraudulent processing or selection of jurors or prospective jurors. (2) Jury-tampering is a class 5 felony; except that jury-tampering in any class 1 felony trial is a class 4 felony. Though Tynan acknowledged that under some circumstances nullification activism is not legally permissible, it appears Ianicelli was within his rights. He is due back in court on August 11 to face his victimless felony charges. It is more than alarming that a man attempting to facilitate and strengthen the judicial process is punished with the full force of the law—the very thing Ianicelli sought to educate jurors about. As Harlan F. Stone, the 12th Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court said in 1941, “ The law itself is on trial quite as much as the cause which is to be decided.” When the justice system refuses to allow jurors to be aware of their rights, let alone exercise them, the country’s entire system of “law and order” is called into question. Carey Wedler writes for theAntiMedia.org. Anti-Media Radio airs weeknights at 11pm Eastern/8pm Pacific. If you spot a typo, email edits@theantimedia.org.
Carey Wedler joined Anti-Media as an independent journalist in September of 2014. As a writer and senior editor, her topics of interest include the police and warfare states, the Drug War, the relevance of history to current problems and solutions, and positive developments that drive humanity forward. She currently resides in Los Angeles, California, where she was born and raised. Learn more about Wedler here! (2 images)Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestComments (1-52) not displayed.
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#53. To: TooConservative (#48)
Except in NH, it seems. I'm unaware of any other state that has a law allowing nullification arguments in court. Interesting in the link I posted that the judge was being criticized for using the standard jury instruction about "the law as I explain it". The Legislature giveth and the Court taketh away. http://reason.com/blog/2014/10/24/jury-nullification-law-gutted-by-new-ham Jury Nullification Law Gutted by New Hampshire Supreme Court J.D. Tuccille|Oct. 24, 2014 10:45 am Insisting "It is well established that jury nullification is neither a right of the defendant nor a defense recognized by law," the New Hampshire Supreme Court this morning eviscerated a law that was openly intended and widely interpreted as a shot in the arm for the right of jurors to consider the law as well as the facts in criminal cases. It did nothing of the sort, the court sniffed. It just codified existing law allowing the jury to give some thought to the way in which laws are applied. Yeah. That's why legislators battled and prosecutors fretted over the law's passage. In the case at hand, The State of New Hampshire v. Richard Paul. Richard Paul was convicted of selling marijuana and LSD. During closing arguments, his attorney urged nullification. By the court's description, the prosecutor acknowledged the jury's nullification role, but argued that the jurors should convict based the law—an understandable back and forth between prosecution and defense. Then, the judge issued "jury instructions that effectively contravened his 'jury nullification defense.'" Paul appealed his subsequent conviction. Honestly, the law had been watered down in the course of its passage through the New Hampshire legislature, from a version that, the court concedes, instructed the jury to "judge the law" and "nullify any and all actions [the jurors] find to be unjust." The enacted version reads, instead, "In all criminal proceedings the court shall permit the defense to inform the jury of its right to judge the facts and the application of the law in relation to the facts in controversy." At the time of passage in 2012, Tim Lynch of the Cato Institute said it was "definitely a step forward," but he was worried about the dilution the measure had suffered. I am concerned, however, that this language does not go far enough. We don’t know how much pressure trial judges will exert on defense counsel. As noted above, if the attorney’s argument is “too strenuous,” the judge may reprimand the attorney in some way or deliver his own strenuous instruction about how the jurors must ultimately accept the law as described by the court, not the defense. I’m also afraid what the jurors hear will too often depend on the particular judge and, then, what that judge wants to do in a particular case. That's pretty much exactly what happened here. Insisting "Were [the law] interpreted to grant juries the right to judge or nullify the law, there would be a significant question as to its constitutionality," the New Hampshire Supreme Court said Paul got more than he was entitled to when the judge in his case allowed his attorney to mention nullification before issuing contrary instructions. So Paul is out of luck. And defendants in the state can no longer rely on the state's jury nullification law, because the state's highest court says that law doesn't mean what everybody knew it meant.
#54. To: nolu chan (#52)
If twelve jurors agree to nullify, and do it, it can’t be reversed. If one juror decides to hang the jury based on his perceived moral requirement to nullify the law, the others can report him to the judge and he can be removed from the jury. As long as the lone juror never says he is out to nullify, there's nothing they can do. It's when the nullifying juror says he is nullifying and/or urges others to join him in nullification that he can be removed from the jury for refusing to vote as narrowly as the judge instructs.
#55. To: nolu chan (#53)
The Legislature giveth and the Court taketh away. I think the Free Staters will take another whack at it and stiffen the language. Of course, legislators are reluctant to do too much to encourage any ol' jury to nullify the state laws that the legislators have enacted. No doubt, the AG and his minions constantly warn them about lawlessness. As though that is a Thing in the age of Obama who wipes his ass with any law he doesn't care for.
#56. To: TooConservative (#54)
.....for refusing to vote as narrowly as the judge instructs. Isn't that sweet!..... what is the purpose of the jury anymore.....?
#57. To: Deckard (#0)
The United States’ first Chief Justice, John Jay, once told jurors, “You have a right to take upon yourselves to judge [both the facts and law].”
#58. To: nolu chan, Y'ALL (#52)
"I would not find a law to be unconstitutional if the court holds it constitutional. That is something for the defense to argue and the court to decide." I would not find a law to be unconstitutional if the court holds it constitutional. The 'good German' always tries to justify his misdeeds by claiming "I was only following orders"... That is something for the defense to argue and the court to decide. Such issues should be argued by the defense, and decided by a jury.
#59. To: patriot wes (#56)
Isn't that sweet!..... what is the purpose of the jury anymore.....? To determine if the defendant is guilty or not, weighing the testimony, evidence and the written law. Not an easy task... tho you attempt to make it sound trivial since you can't inject personal opinion into the equation. Some of the posters here would be a defense attorneys wet dream, as a juror.
I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح
#60. To: GrandIsland (#59)
To determine if the defendant is guilty or not, weighing the testimony, evidence and the written law. GI said it short and sweet here. Some of the posters here would be a defense attorneys wet dream, as a juror. Even so, they'd still be a rarity. Juries at present are far too disposed to buy anything a prosecutor says. Only a few percent of all cases go to a jury trial and a very small number of those ever is exonerated by the jury.
#61. To: tpaine (#58)
The 'good German' always tries to justify his misdeeds by claiming "I was only following orders"... The ‘bad’ doper swears he will accept the law from the court, and lies about it in the jury selection process. The law is argued by both sides outside the presence of the jury for a reason. The Court is professionally qualified and responsible to determine what the applicable law is. The jury is to take the law from the Court, to determine the facts, and to apply the law to the facts in determining guilt or liability.
#62. To: patriot wes, Deckard (#57)
The United States’ first Chief Justice, John Jay, once told jurors, “You have a right to take upon yourselves to judge [both the facts and law].” Context and 1795 matter. https://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/3/1 Georgia v Brailsford, 3 US (Dal) 1 (1794) It may not be amiss, here, Gentlemen, to remind you of the good old rule, that on questions of fact, it is the province of the jury, on questions of law, it is the province of the court to decide. But it must be observed that by the same law, which recognizes this reasonable distribution of jurisdiction, you have nevertheless a right to take upon yourselves to judge of both, and to determine the law as well as the fact in controversy. On this, and on every other occasion, however, we have no doubt, you will pay that respect, which is due to the opinion of the court: For, as on the one hand, it is presumed, that juries are the best judges of facts; it is, on the other hand, presumbable, that the court are the best judges of the law. But still both objects are lawfully, within your power of decision. - - - - - https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/156/51/case.html U.S. Supreme Court Sparf and Hansen v. United States, 156 U.S. 51 (1895) Sparf and Hansen v. United States No. 613 Submitted March 5, 1894 Decided January 21, 1895 [156 U.S. 51] Syllabus In the courts of the United States, it is the duty of the jury, in criminal cases, to receive the law from the court, and to apply it as given by the court, subject to the condition that, by a general verdict, a jury of necessity determines both law and fact as compounded in the issue submitted to them in the particular case. [156 U.S. 63] Opinion of the Court The court below assumed, and correctly, that section 1035 of the Revised Statutes did not authorize a jury in a criminal case to find the defendant guilty of a less offense than the one charged unless the evidence justified them in so doing. Congress did not intend to invest juries in criminal cases with power arbitrarily to disregard the evidence and the principles of law applicable to the case on trial. [156 U.S. 64] Opinion of the Court The general question as to the duty of the jury to receive the law from the court is not concluded by any direct decision of this Court. But it has been often considered by other courts and by judges of high authority, and, where its determination has not been controlled by specific constitutional or statutory provisions expressly empowering the jury to determine both law and facts, the principle by which courts and juries are to be guided in the exercise of their respective functions has become firmly established. [156 U. S. 64-65] Opinion of the Court In Georgia v. Brailsford, 3 Dall. 1, 3 U. S. 4, a case in this Court tried by a special jury upon an amicable issue, Chief Justice Jay is reported to have said: "It may not be amiss here, gentlemen, to remind you of the good old rule that on questions of fact, it is the province of the jury, on questions of law it is the province of the court, to decide. But it must be observed that by the same law which recognizes this reasonable distribution of jurisdiction, you have, nevertheless, a right to take [65] upon yourselves to judge of both, and to determine the law as well as the fact in controversy. On this and on every other occasion, however, we have no doubt you will pay that respect which is due to the opinion of the court, for as on the one hand it is presumed that juries are best judges of facts, it is, on the other hand, presumable that the courts are the best judges of the law. But still both objects are lawfully within your power of decision." Of the correctness of this report, Mr. Justice Curtis in United States v. Morris, 1 Curtis 23, 58, expressed much doubt, for the reason that the Chief Justice is reported as saying that, in civil cases -- and that was a civil case -- the jury had the right to decide the law, and because also the different parts of the charge conflict with each other, the Chief Justice, according to the report, saying at the outset that it is the province of the jury to decide questions of fact, and of the court to decide questions of law, and in the succeeding sentence informing the jury that they had the right to take upon themselves the determination of both law and fact. If the Chief Justice said that it was the province of the court to decide questions of law, and the province of the jury to decide questions of fact, he could not have said that the jury had the right, in a civil case, to judge of and determine both law and fact. "The whole case," Mr. Justice Curtis said, "was an anomaly. It purports to be a trial by jury in the Supreme Court of the United States of certain issues out of chancery, and the Chief Justice begins by telling the jury that the facts are all agreed, and the only question is a matter of law, and upon that the whole court were agreed. If it be correctly reported, I can only say it is not in accordance with the views of any other court, so far as I know, in this country or in England, and is certainly not in accordance with the course of the Supreme Court for many years."
#63. To: TooConservative (#54)
As long as the lone juror never says he is out to nullify, there's nothing they can do. The lone dissenter must engage with the other eleven in attempts to reach a verdict. If he just refuses to discuss his reasoning, he can be removed from the jury. He has to provide some reasoning other than nullification.
#64. To: TooConservative, GrandIsland (#60)
To determine if the defendant is guilty or not, weighing the testimony, evidence and the written law. GI said it short and sweet here.
The duty of the jury is to determine the facts from all the evidence, take the law from the Court and apply that law to the facts, and reach a verdict. The jury is not tasked with determining the law. A juror caught with a law book can quickly be excused. They cannot do their own research either.
#65. To: TooConservative (#55)
I think the Free Staters will take another whack at it and stiffen the language. "Were [the law] interpreted to grant juries the right to judge or nullify the law, there would be a significant question as to its constitutionality," The Judge appears to be prepared to strike down another legislative attempt as unconstitutional.
#66. To: nolu chan (#65)
The Judge appears to be prepared to strike down another legislative attempt as unconstitutional. An invitation to the Free Staters to begin a drive for a constitutional amendment to eliminate the NH supreme court from meddling. It may be that the law, even as watered down as it is, opens the door enough to nullification that the activists will be overall satisfied, at least for a while. The main objective of allowing a nullification defense will still be allowed, from what I've seen. Whether you can force a judge to issue nullification instructions along with the standard jury instructions is another matter. And judges do have a certain immunity to recall in most states. I'm not sure what NH's judicial retention laws are like. If the judge is untouchable, he'll continue to issue those instructions. Even if he has to face the voters in a retention election, this might not be fatal with the general electorate for the judge. AFAIK, only 27% of the public votes against judges and they are a hardcore voting bloc, voting down every judge in election after election (the idea being that judges so rarely lose that someone needs to vote them down just so anyone can have a chance to oust a truly lousy judge). At least, I've read articles that asserted that that is the shape of the anti-judge voting bloc in this country going back decades.
#67. To: nolu chan (#64)
The duty of the jury is to determine the facts from all the evidence, take the law from the Court and apply that law to the facts, and reach a verdict. The jury is not tasked with determining the law. A juror caught with a law book can quickly be excused. They cannot do their own research either. As with GI, I can't disagree. Very standard juridical policy everywhere in the country, regardless of differences in statutes among the states and with the federal government. A juror is pretty much a juror.
#68. To: nolu chan (#63)
The lone dissenter must engage with the other eleven in attempts to reach a verdict. If he just refuses to discuss his reasoning, he can be removed from the jury. He has to provide some reasoning other than nullification. That probably varies by state. They can always doubt key witnesses, suggest the prosecutor is out of control, that the case is greatly overcharged, that the judge failed to conduct an impartial trial, disagree with key evidence, etc. A juror can be very obstinate without giving any cause for his removal.
#69. To: nolu chan (#61)
I would not find a law to be unconstitutional if the court holds it constitutional. The 'good German' always tries to justify his misdeeds by claiming "I was only following orders"... That is something for the defense to argue and the court to decide. Such issues should be argued by the defense, and decided by a jury. The ‘bad’ doper swears he will accept the law from the court, and lies about it in the jury selection process. The bad citizen accepts the opinion of a court on constitutional matters. -- And he is not obligated to accept bad legal opinions as law. The law is argued by both sides outside the presence of the jury for a reason. The Court is professionally qualified and responsible to determine what the applicable law is. The jury should be fully informed in our system. -- You deny that concept? The jury is to take the law from the Court, to determine the facts, and to apply the law to the facts in determining guilt or liability. Our juries are empowered to judge both the law,-- and the facts; -- another concept you no doubt deny?
#70. To: tpaine (#69)
Our juries are empowered to judge both the law,-- and the facts; -- another concept you no doubt deny? Cite your ignorant legal precedent for that.
#71. To: nolu chan, tpaine (#70)
To: tpaine (#69) Our juries are empowered to judge both the law,-- and the facts; -- another concept you no doubt deny? Cite your ignorant legal precedent for that. Runaway slaves?
#72. To: A Pole, Y'ALL, - and LF's wannabe legal authoritarian, nolu chan (#71)
Weird concept.
#73. To: tpaine (#72)
Nolu Chan is firmly convinced that once our judiciary declare that a law is constitutional, we all MUST obey.. My guess is that the self-righteous prick nolu chan is a prosecuting attorney.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul In a Cop Culture, the Bill of Rights Doesn’t Amount to Much Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends. Paul Craig Roberts
#74. To: Deckard (#73)
1) My guess is that the self-righteous prick nolu chan is a prosecuting attorney. 2) My guess is that the self-righteous prick nolu chan is a prosecuting attorney. 1) Leave it to the agenda posters to shit their brand of anarchy on Stones forum by calling others names. 2) regardless what he does at work, he's obviously closer to a constitutional scholar than you or tpaine.
I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح
#75. To: tpaine (#72)
Nolu Chan is firmly convinced that once our judiciary declare that a law is constitutional, we all MUST obey.. Weird concept. Why don't you just sit on your local police departments front steps and smoke a nice fat cocaine rock.... see how your iron clad "concept" works for you.
I'm the infidel... Allah warned you about. كافر المسلح
#76. To: tpaine (#72)
Nolu Chan is firmly convinced that once our judiciary declare that a law is constitutional, we all MUST obey.. Weird concept. I accept your tacit admission by omission that you cannot cite any legal precedent for your legal claim. As usual, you can only support your bullshit with more of your own bullshit. Of course, your bullshit flies in the face of a 220 year old line of cases.
#77. To: Deckard (#73)
My guess is that the self-righteous prick nolu chan is a prosecuting attorney. My guess is that Deckard is a shape-shifting alien.
#78. To: A Pole (#71)
Runaway slaves? Another scholar afraid to cite his non-existent legal precedent. Article 4, Sect. 2, Cl. 3 covered runaway slaves and was agreed to by all the states. No person held to service or labor in one state, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due. You believe jurors should render verdicts directly contrary to the Constitution? Even if they should decide to find you guilty of something and send you to prison, based on evidence excluded on constitutional grounds, and of which the judge instructed the jury to ignore it? Exactly when is the jury empowered to act directly contrary to the Constitution under your legal theory?
#79. To: GrandIsland, Y'ALL (#75)
Deckard (#73) --- 1) My guess is that the self-righteous prick nolu chan is a prosecuting attorney. He's admitted more than once that he's a self righteous wannabe attorney. 1) Leave it to the agenda posters to shit their brand of anarchy on Stones forum by calling others names. Nolu has an agenda, and he calls his opponents names. -- Admit it... 2) regardless what he does at work, he's obviously closer to a constitutional scholar than you or tpaine. -- GrandIsland Nolu is not a constitutional scholar, he's an authoritarian judicial wannabe, obsessed with posting lengthy 'legal' diatribes, (most of which do NOT make his points)....
#80. To: GrandIsland, tpaine (#75)
Why don't you just sit on your local police departments front steps and smoke a nice fat cocaine rock.... see how your iron clad "concept" works for you. This stuff does not work well in the real world. Donald V. Gibbs, 25 Myths of the United States Constitution, at page 20 asserts, “Federal Drug laws are unconstitutional. As a result, California’s medical marijuana laws are constitutional.” Cite the Supremacy Clause. This is like birther law or tax protester law. Act on it and one can go to prison. See actor Wesley Snipes (taxes) or doctor and former Army Lt. Col. Terry Lakin (birtherism). Snipes did time at McKean Federal Correctional Institution in Pennsylvania, Lakin did time at the military prison at Leavenworth, was dismissed from the Army (officer equivalent of Dishonorable Discharge), and was denied a license to practice medicine.
#81. To: tpaine, GrandIsland (#79)
Nolu is not a constitutional scholar, he's an authoritarian judicial wannabe, obsessed with posting lengthy 'legal' diatribes, (most of which do NOT make his points).... I asked for your legal precedent. Why can't you provide one? You make absurd legal claims and can provide no legal authority that agrees with you.
#82. To: nolu chan, grandisland, y'all (#80)
Weird concept. Grandious: -- Why don't you just sit on your local police departments front steps and smoke a nice fat cocaine rock.... see how your iron clad "concept" works for you. nolu ---- This stuff does not work well in the real world. Yep, our 'real world', where the various levels of gov't in the USA are quite consistently ignoring the constitution is 'working well'?? --- Only in the eyes of the authoritarians on this site. Congrats you two.. You're contributing in a small way to making a mess of our republic..
#83. To: tpaine (#79)
Nolu is not a constitutional scholar, he's an authoritarian judicial wannabe, obsessed with posting lengthy 'legal' diatribes, From what I have witnessed, he does little more than copy-and-paste long winded legalese mumbo jumbo hoping that the sheer volume of the posts will make his case.
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul In a Cop Culture, the Bill of Rights Doesn’t Amount to Much Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends. Paul Craig Roberts
#84. To: tpaine, GrandIsland (#82)
[tpaine] Nolu Chan is firmly convinced that once our judiciary declare that a law is constitutional, we all MUST obey.. And tpaine asserts the Supremacy Clause has some magic content unknown to the author of the Supremacy Clause or any other legal authority. Indeed, according to tpaine theory, nobody needs to obey any laws. If Roe v. Wade were reversed, doctors could deem the reversing decision unconstitutional and continue to perform abortions, because the Supremacy Clause. Luther Martin and the Supremacy Clause 3 Farrand 220 [Luther Martin who introduced the Supremacy Clause] [83] By the third article, the judicial power of the United States is vested in one supreme court, and in such inferior courts, as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. These courts, and these only, will have a right to decide upon the laws of the United States, and all questions arising upon their construction, and in a judicial manner to carry those laws into execution; to which the courts, both superior and inferior, of the respective States, and their judges and other magistrates, are rendered incompetent. To the courts of the general government are also confined all cases in law or equity, arising under the proposed constitution, and treaties made under the authority of the United States; all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers, and consuls; all cases of admiralty and maritime jurisdiction; all controversies to which the United States are a party; all controversies between two or more States; between a State and citizens of another State; between citizens of the same State, claiming lands under grants of different States; and between a State, or the citizens thereof, and foreign States, citizens, or subjects. Whether therefore, any laws or regulations of the Congress, or any acts of its President or other officers, are contrary to, or not warranted by the constitution, rests only with the judges, who are appointed by Congress to determine; by whose determinations every State must be bound. 2 Farrand 28-29: [Madison] (Mr. Luther Martin moved the following resolution “that the Legislative acts of the U. S. made by virtue & in pursuance of the articles of Union, and all treaties made & ratified under the authority of the U. S. shall be the supreme law of the respective States, as far as those acts or treaties shall relate to the said States, or their Citizens and inhabitants & that the Judiciaries of the several States shall be bound thereby in their decisions, any thing in the respective laws of the individual States to the contrary notwithstanding” which was agreed to nem: con:.)
#85. To: Deckard, tpaine, GrandIsland (#0)
[Article] The United States’ first Chief Justice, John Jay, once told jurors, “You have a right to take upon yourselves to judge [both the facts and law].” Jurors would seize this right to nullify anti-sedition laws in the early 1800s that attempted to stifle free speech criticizing the newly formed United States government. This out of context quote is applied as legal nonsense. It never purported to apply to any criminal trial context, and only applied in an extremely limited context. Actual, citable precedent was set in 1895 and continues with a line of cases to the present day. Special jury. A jury ordered by the court, on the motion of either party, in the cses of unusual importance or intricacy. Called, from the maner in which it is constituted, a “struck jury.” At common law, a jury composed of persons above the rank of ordinary freeholders; usually summoned to try questions of greater importance than those usually submitted to common juries. Struck jury. A special jury. Black’s Law Dictionary, 6th Ed. Georgia v. Brailsford is not citable precedent. Originally, Brailsford filed suit against one Spalding in 1790 in the federal circuit court in Georgia before Justice Iredell on circuit, and Judge Pendleton. Georgia’s effort to interplead was denied. Georgia filed in equity against Brailsford and Spalding, which was dismissed with instructions to file an action at common law. 2 Dallas 415, 418-19 (1793) JAY, Chief Justice.—All the Court except the judges who have just delivered their sentiments are of opinion that if the state of Georgia has a right to the debt, due originally from Spalding to Brailsford, it is a right to be pursued at common law.The bill, however, was founded in the highest equity; and the ground of equity for granting an injunction continues the same—namely that the money ought to be kept for the party to whom it belongs. We shall therefore continue the injunction untill the next term; when, however, if Georgia has not instituted her action at common law, it will be dissolved.(a) (a) An amicable action was accordingly entered and tried at the bar of the Supreme Court, in February Term 1794, (3 Dall. 1), when a verdict was given for the defendant (Brailsford) and the injunction was, of course, dissolved. As the parties could find no legal basis to proceed at common law, they invented a fictional basis. They stipulated as fact that Brailsford had been paid. As SCOTUS had ordered the Marshal not to disburse the money, it appears the court had to know the stipulated “facts” were fiction. Alexander Dallas termed it “[a]n amicable action.” Brailsford v. Georgia 3 US (Dal) 1 (1794) was initiated upon that fiction and another fiction that Brailsford was a British subject even though records indicate he was a citizen of South Carolina. The Brailsford jury pool of 40 included not less than 38 merchants. This was not an ordinary jury, but a special jury of merchants selected for their expertise in law merchant (lex mercatoria). Thus, if understood in its context, Chief Justice Jay’s jury charge includes the natural instructions that a judge in a trial at bar would give to an expert special jury of merchants, which was expected to play a part in incorporating mercantile law into the larger body of law. After all, the facts in Brailsford had already all been stipulated, and thus finding the law was the only matter left for the special jury to determine. In the case of Brailsford, a special jury of merchants would be expected to apply to this case the prevailing law merchant customs. This would assure the wide mercantile community that the courts of the nascent Republic would not be insular and partisan, but would apply the lex mercatoria to international mercantile disputes. Lochlan F. Shelfer, “Special Juries in the Supreme Court,” 123 Yale Law Journal, 208, 242 (2013). [This Note] has shown that the venire was almost exclusively made up of merchants, and that Brailsford’s attorney repeatedly invoked the law of merchants in his address to the jury. It has concluded from these and other strands of evidence that in the Supreme Court’s first and only reported jury trial, it employed a special jury of merchants in the Mansfieldian tradition. Id. at 245. It was a tradition of English common law to use an expert special jury in cases at law merchant, as shown in the case of Middlewood against Blakes (1797) 101 Eng. Rep. 911, 914 (K.B.) (Grose, J.), 7 T.R. 162, 168 (K.B.)(1797). Now it must be remembered, that this cause was tried by a special jury of merchants of London, persons peculiarly conversant in commercial transactions, and who perfectly well knew the ordinary risk of such a voyage, and what would vary that risk; and they were of opinion that the underwriter was not liable. This is not like an ordinary jury. The special jury is selected for its expertise at law merchant to assist the court. When John Jay addressed the jury in Brailsford, he was addressing such a jury. His remarks had no applicability to any criminal cases, and had no applicability to civil cases outside of those rare instances where the court impanelled a special jury of experts at the applicable law. Sparf and Hansen v. United States, 156 U.S. 51 (1895) extinguished any possible notion of serving as a precedent as some wingnuts claim. Wingnuts talk. And they talk. Even when they do not know what they are talking about.
#86. To: tpaine, nolu chan and anybody else on this thread (#79)
You're right about the lawyers. I'm a US lawyer and a French lawyer - got my US law degree from Columbia and my French degree from the Sorbonne. You know why don't you get Vicomte13 to give his opinion since he claims to be a lawywer???
“Let me see which pig "DON'T" I want to vote for, the one with or without lipstick??" Hmmmmm...
#87. To: nolu chan, stuck on magic.. (#84)
And tpaine asserts the Supremacy Clause has some magic content unknown to the author of the Supremacy Clause or any other legal authority. -- Indeed, according to tpaine theory, nobody needs to obey any laws. Only laws made "in pursuance thereof", (in pursuance of Constitutional goals) are valid. -- This is not 'magic', -- it is how our system should work. If you are charged with disobeying a law, a fully informed jury should hear both the facts about the law, and the facts of the case, before rendering its verdict.
#88. To: tpaine (#87)
Only laws made "in pursuance thereof", (in pursuance of Constitutional goals) are valid. -- This is not 'magic', -- it is how our system should work. It is how our system works. The authority for deciding whether laws are constitutional or not is the Judicial Branch, not each individual according to his own, or tpaine's, whim.
#89. To: nolu chan (#88)
tpaine asserts the Supremacy Clause has some magic content unknown to the author of the Supremacy Clause or any other legal authority. -- Indeed, according to tpaine theory, nobody needs to obey any laws. Only laws made "in pursuance thereof", (in pursuance of Constitutional goals) are valid. -- This is not 'magic', -- it is how our system should work. If you are charged with disobeying a law, a fully informed jury should hear both the facts about the law, and the facts of the case, before rendering its verdict. It is how our system works. Good to see you finally admit, -- that essentially, -- we agree.. The authority for deciding whether laws are constitutional or not is the Judicial Branch, not each individual according to his own, or tpaine's, whim. Granted, it is part of the judical branches job, -- deciding whether laws are constitutional or not, -- but each individual, or official, also has that authority, -- according to his own conscience.. -- And his bravery to buck an authoritarian 'legal' system.. Good to see you finally gaining a bit of common sense about this issue. -- Thanks.
#90. To: tpaine (#89)
[tpaine]Only laws made "in pursuance thereof", (in pursuance of Constitutional goals) are valid. -- This is not 'magic', -- it is how our system should work. [nolu chan] It is how our system works. The authority for deciding whether laws are constitutional or not is the Judicial Branch, not each individual according to his own, or tpaine's, whim. [tpaine] Granted, it is part of the judical branches job, -- deciding whether laws are constitutional or not, -- but each individual, or official, also has that authority, -- according to his own conscience.. -- And his bravery to buck an authoritarian 'legal' system.. No, each individual is not given that authority. The Constitution gives that authority to the Judicial Branch. You can violate the law if you choose, at your own risk. That is called civil disobedience, not the exercise of one's lawful authority. If all could decide the laws for themselves, and Roe were to be reversed making abortion unlawful, the doctors could decide on their own authority to disregard the judicial decision and perform abortions anyway. What lawful authority would they be exercising? If deemed to be practicing infanticide, could they lawfully be executed for exerising their authority, so called?
#91. To: nolu chan (#90)
If you are charged with disobeying a law, a fully informed jury should hear both the facts about the law, and the facts of the case, before rendering its verdict. It is how our system works. Good to see you finally admit, -- that essentially, -- we agree.. The authority for deciding whether laws are constitutional or not is the Judicial Branch, not each individual according to his own, or tpaine's, whim. Granted, it is part of the judical branches job, -- deciding whether laws are constitutional or not, -- but each individual, or official, also has that authority, -- according to his own conscience.. -- And his bravery to buck an authoritarian 'legal' system.. Good to see you finally gaining a bit of common sense about this issue. -- Thanks. No, each individual is not given that authority. The Constitution gives that authority to the Judicial Branch. You're stuck on the legalistic term 'authority'. Amusing, since you're an authoritarian.. --- So ok, each individual or official has the duty to honor only laws made "in pursuance thereof". You can violate the law if you choose, at your own risk. That is called civil disobedience, not the exercise of one's lawful authority. Exactly, you can, at your own risk, refuse to honor and obey unconstitutional 'laws'.. -- What we call that refusal is a political opinion. If all could decide the laws for themselves, and Roe were to be reversed making abortion unlawful, the doctors could decide on their own authority to disregard the judicial decision and perform abortions anyway. What lawful authority would they be exercising? If deemed to be practicing infanticide, could they lawfully be executed for exerising their authority, so called? That's exactly why we have juries, they decide whether the law and the facts of the case are applicable. Thanks again for starting to see the common sense of the issue..
#92. To: tpaine (#91)
[nolu chan] If all could decide the laws for themselves, and Roe were to be reversed making abortion unlawful, the doctors could decide on their own authority to disregard the judicial decision and perform abortions anyway. What lawful authority would they be exercising? If deemed to be practicing infanticide, could they lawfully be executed for exerising their authority, so called? [tpaine] That's exactly why we have juries, they decide whether the law and the facts of the case are applicable. Thanks for admitting that exercising the "authority" you talk about can get you sentenced to death and executed unless the jury ignores the instructions of the court.
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