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Religion
See other Religion Articles

Title: God's Economics In His Own Words
Source: Genesis through Revelation
URL Source: [None]
Published: Jul 23, 2015
Author: God
Post Date: 2015-07-23 11:41:25 by Vicomte13
Keywords: None
Views: 1960
Comments: 33

The roots of economics: Of natural law, order, energy, the elements, the cosmos, sky-sea-and land, plants, animals and humans, reproduction, food, the serpent, and the tree of knowledge of function and dysfunction; the imposition scarcity, of the need for clothing, and of potential medical needs.

ELOHIYM [the Powers]: "Or [order or light] will exist."

"Day." "Night."

"A sheet will exist in midst of the waters, making separate waters to waters."

"Skies."

"The waters from under the skies will be bound up into one area and the dry ground will be seen."

"Land." "Seas."

"The land will make sprout shoots, stems making sowing seed, produce tree making produce of his kind with his seed in him, upon the land."

"Luminaries will exist in [the] sheet [of] the skies to make separate between the day and between the night, and they exist to [make] signs and to [make] appointed [times], and to days and years, and the luminaries exist in [the] sheet [of] the skies to make light upon the land."

"Swarmers will swarm the waters, living beings, and flyers upon the land will much fly upon [the] faces [of the] sheet [of] the skies."

"Reproduce! And increase! And fill the waters in the seas! And flyers, increase in the land."

"The land will make go out kind[s] of living beings, beasts and treaders, and living land beings [of] their kind[s]."

"We will do human in [the] image [of] us, like the likeness [of] us, and he ruled in fish [of] the sea and in flyers [of] the skies, and in the beast, and in all the land, and in all [of] the treader treading upon the land."

"Reproduce! And increase! And fill the land! And subdue her! Rule in fish [of] the sea and in flyer [of] the skies and in all living treading upon the land."

"Look! I gave all stems sowing seeds that [are] upon [the] faces [of] all the land. And each produce tree[s] that in him sowing seeds; to you [it] will exist for food. And to all living [in] the land, and to all flyer [of] the skies, and to all living treading upon the land: all green stems to food."

YHWH: "You will eat from all tree[s] of the garden. And from [the] tree [of] the discernment [of] functional and dysfunctional - you will not eat from him, given that in [the] day you eat from him: die, you will die."

YHWH ELOHIYM: "Not functional is the human [as] a stick {i.e.: a single branch]. I will do to him help, like opposite him."

The woman, quoting Elohiym to the serpent regarding the Tree of Discernment of Function and Dsfunction: "You will not eat from him, and you will not touch him, otherwise you will die."

YHWH: "Where [are] you?"

"Who made face-to-face to you that you [are] naked? From the tree which I did much direct you except from him to eat: you will eat."

"What this did you do?"

"Given that you did do this, spit-upon [are] you from all the beast and from all the living. Upon your belly you will walk and power you will eat all the days of your living. And hostility I will set down between you and between the woman and between your seed and between her seed. He will fall upon your head, and you will fall upon his heel."

"Make increase - I will make increase your (singular) hardship and your (singular) pregnancy; in distressing pain you (singular) will bring forth sons; and to your (singular) man you (singular) [will be] following, and he will regulate in you."

"Given that you hearkened to [the] voice [of] your woman and you will eat from the tree from which I did much direct you, saying you will not eat from him, the ground [is] spitted-upon in your crossing-over; in hardship you (masculine singular) will eat her all days you live. And bramble and thistle she [the land] will make spring up to you, and you ate stem[s] [of] the field. In sweat [of] your noses you (masculine singular) will eat bread until you turn back to the ground, given that you [are] powder and to powder you will turn back."

YHWH ELOHIYM: "Though the human existed [a] like one from us, to know functional and dysfunctional, and now otherwise he will send his hand and take also from Tree [of} the Livings and ate and lived to distant time."

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#1. To: All (#0) (Edited)

A few slight corrections:

ELOHIYM [the Powers]: "Or [order or light] will exist."

"Day." "Night."

"A sheet will exist in midst of the waters, making separate waters to waters."

"Skies."

"The waters from under the skies will be bound up into one area and the dry ground will be seen."

"Land." "Seas."

"The land will make sprout shoots, stems making sowing seed, produce tree making produce of his kind with his seed in him, upon the land."

"Luminaries will exist in [the] sheet [of] the skies to make separate between the day and between the night, and they exist to [make] signs and to [make] appointed [times], and to days and years, and the luminaries exist in [the] sheet [of] the skies to make light upon the land."

"Swarmers will swarm the waters, living beings, and flyers upon the land will much fly upon [the] faces [of the] sheet [of] the skies."

"Reproduce! And increase! And fill the waters in the seas! And flyers, increase in the land."

"The land will make go out kind[s] of living beings, beasts and treaders, and living land beings [of] their kind[s]."

"We will do human in [the] image [of] us, like the likeness [of] us, and he ruled in swimmers [of] the sea and in flyers [of] the skies, and in the beast, and in all the land, and in all [of] the treader treading upon the land."

"Reproduce! And increase! And fill the land! And subdue her! Rule in swimmers [of] the sea and in flyer [of] the skies and in all living treading upon the land."

"Look! I gave all stems sowing seeds that [are] upon [the] faces [of] all the land. And each produce tree[s] that in him sowing seeds; to you [it] will exist for food. And to all living [in] the land, and to all flyer [of] the skies, and to all living treading upon the land: all green stems to food."

YHWH: "You will eat from all tree[s] of the garden. And from [the] tree [of] the discernment [of] functional and dysfunctional - you will not eat from him, given that in [the] day you eat from him: die, you will die."

YHWH ELOHIYM: "Not functional is the human [as] a stick {i.e.: a single branch}. I will do to him help, like opposite him."

The woman, quoting Elohiym to the serpent regarding the Tree of Discernment of Function and Dsfunction: "You will not eat from him, and you will not touch him, otherwise you will die."

YHWH: "Where [are] you?"

"Who made face-to-face to you that you [are] naked? From the tree which I did much direct you except from him to eat: you will eat."

"What [is} this you have done?"

"Given that you did do this, spit-upon [are] you from all the beast and from all the living. Upon your belly you will walk and power you will eat all the days of your living. And hostility I will set down between you and between the woman and between your seed and between her seed. He will fall upon your head, and you will fall upon his heel."

"Make increase - I will make increase your (singular) hardship and your (singular) pregnancy; in distressing pain you (singular) will bring forth sons; and to your (singular) man you (singular) [will be] following, and he will regulate in you."

"Given that you hearkened to [the] voice [of] your woman and you will eat from the tree from which I did much direct you, saying you will not eat from him, the ground [is] spitted-upon in your crossing-over; in hardship you (masculine singular) will eat her all days you live. And bramble and thistle she [the land] will make spring up to you, and you ate stem[s] [of] the field. In sweat [of] your noses you (masculine singular) will eat bread until you turn back to the ground, given that you [are] powder and to powder you will turn back."

YHWH ELOHIYM: "Though the human existed like one from us, to know functional and dysfunctional, and now otherwise he will send his hand and take also from Tree [of] the Livings and ate and lived to distant time."

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-07-23   11:44:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Vicomte13 (#0)

Here is a good place to start. I didn't notice your thread.

You said I started with a preacher. A preacher reading from the Bible.

I don't think you can dispute anything he says. If you can useing the Bibloe please let me know. Thatnks

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-07-23   12:46:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: All (#0)

Upon your belly you will walk and power you will eat all the days of your living.

Additional correction:

"powder you will eat", not "power".

YHWH told the serpent that he would eat powder (dust, fine dirt, dry soil). "Power" was a typo.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-07-23   12:48:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: A K A Stone (#2)

In this thread I'm quoting God verbatim, just God, and just the parts where God speaks directly, that are indicated as "God said", or The LORD said, or Jesus said.

God speaks for himself.

I've had enough of Christians telling me what God means. I'm going to present what God, just God, said about economics (which touches on most things), starting on page 1 of Genesis and going through the final page of Revelation.

Just God. Direct quotes only. In order, from A to Z.

God speaks for himself. He speaks clearly.

The translation is literal (which is why it is clumsy).

I am bone tired of arguing with Christians. Tired and done with it. God said what he said, as he said it, and he meant just exactly that.

Just God.

Whosoever has a beef with the words spoken out of the mouth of God has a beef with God, and can take it up with Him.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-07-23   12:56:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: All (#0) (Edited)

The first post covered Genesis 1:1 through 3:24. To continue -

Qayin begins the violence in the land by killing Hevel. God finally decides to drown his wind (spirit) from all flesh in the land specifically because of the violence.

YHWH to Qayin (acquired = 'Cain'), regarding Hevel (vanity, whiff = 'Abel'):

"To what (why) did he flare up to you, and why did your faces fall? [Do] not. If you will make do well, lift up. And if you will not make do well, opening to failure [is] stretching out. [He (Abel) is] following you, and you will regulate [rule] in him."

"Where [is] Hevel your brother?"

"What you did do [the] voice of your brother's bloods [is] crying out to me from the ground. And now spitted-upon [are] you from the ground which parted her mouth to take your brother's bloods from your hand. Given that, you will serve the ground [but] she will not make her strength add to you. Staggering and nodding you will exist in the land."

{Note: Qayin did not go "to the land of Nod", he was "staggering and nodding in the land".}

"For (to avoid) this, all killing Qayin, seven times will he be made avenged."

Male and female he (Elohiym) did fatten them, and he will much kneel at them, and he will call out their title "Human" in the day they be fattened. (Gen 5:2)

YHWH: "My wind will not moderate in the human to distant time; he [is] flesh. And his days were one hundred and twenty years." (Gen 6:3)

"I will wipe away the human which I did fatten upon [the] faces [of the] ground, from human[s] to beast to treader and to flyer [of] the skies, so that I am comforted given that I did do (make) them."

ELOHIYM: "[The] conclusion [of] all flesh came to my faces, given that violence filled the land from their faces. Look! I am damaging (destroying) them [from] the land." (Gen 6:13)

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-07-23   14:04:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Christians (#5) (Edited)

Any disputes so far?

Does any of you have a scintilla of doubt about what any of it means?

If you do, speak now.

If you prefer, I will re-publish it without any of the editorial "linking words" add. Hebrew, rendered in literal English, sounds like cave-man speak, because they Hebrew does not use the verb "to be" as linking verbs.

So, in English we would see "I am Joe", but in Hebrew, we see "I Joe."

Hebrew often doesn't put articles before many nouns. Sometimes it does, for emphasis, and sometimes simply because the author chose to. "Do not eat from the tree of knowledge in the middle of the garden" would be "Not you-will-eat tree knowledge garden-middle."

If we have to make God sound like a caveman to avoid even the bracketed "ease of reading" edits, I will do precisely that. The alternative, going longer and flowerier, adds things that are not there.

Example: There is no "Land of Nod". God says that Qayin will be nodding and staggering in the land - not "wandering in the Land of Nod".

Also, there is no "sin lurking at the door", and it is not SIN that Qayin can master. The antecedent "he" is Abel. God is telling Cain to atop having a fit and lift up his face, because his brother Abel is following his example, and if he lifts up then he will lead (regulate in) Abel. But that if he does not buck up, that he's opening himself (and Abel, by bad example) to doing wrong.

It's very straightforward. Qayin's RESPONSE is, rather, violence. Violence begins here - over what? And God drowns his spirit out of almost all flesh on the land (he DAMAGES it, but doesn't completely destroy it, for there will be the Ark and its contents) because of VIOLENCE.

Once again: is there ANY confusion?

So far: God often refers to himself in the plural, as "we" and "us". God creates the physics. Man and land animals were made vegetarian. No bloodshed. There is function and dysfunction, and a tree that imparts knowledge of it, and God tells the couple in the Garden not to eat from it, but they do. They are punished for that. One son kills another. God destroys the land animals and mankind by flood, and he does it because of violence.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-07-23   14:29:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: All (#5)

Synopsis so far: WHAT GOD SAID, CREATION TO THE FLOOD (Gen 1:1-6:13) The roots of economics: Of natural law, order, energy, the elements, the cosmos, sky-sea-and land, plants, animals and humans, reproduction, food, the serpent, and the tree of knowledge of function and dysfunction; the imposition scarcity, of the need for clothing, and of potential medical needs. Qayin begins the violence in the land by killing Hevel. God finally decides to drown his wind (spirit) from all flesh in the land specifically because of the violence.

ELOHIYM [the Powers]: "Or [order or light] will exist." "Day." "Night."

"A sheet will exist in midst of the waters, making separate waters to waters." "Skies."

"The waters from under the skies will be bound up into one area and the dry ground will be seen." "Land." "Seas."

"The land will make sprout shoots, stems making sowing seed, produce tree making produce of his kind with his seed in him, upon the land."

"Luminaries will exist in [the] sheet [of] the skies to make separate between the day and the night, and they exist to [make] signs and to [make] appointed [times], and to days and years, and the luminaries exist in [the] sheet [of] the skies to make light upon the land."

"Swarmers will swarm the waters, living beings, and flyers upon the land will much fly upon [the] faces [of the] sheet [of] the skies."

"Reproduce! And increase! And fill the waters in the seas! And flyers, increase in the land."

"The land will make go out kind[s] of living beings, beasts and treaders, and living land beings [of] their kind[s]."

"We will do human in [the] image [of] us, like the likeness [of] us, and he ruled in swimmers [of] the sea and in flyers [of] the skies, and in the beast, and in all the land, and in all [of] the treader treading upon the land."

"Reproduce! And increase! And fill the land! And subdue her! Rule in swimmers [of] the sea and in flyer [of] the skies and in all living treading upon the land."

"Look! I gave all stems sowing seeds that [are] upon [the] faces [of] all the land. And each produce tree[s] that in him sowing seeds; to you [it] will exist for food. And to all living [in] the land, and to all flyer [of] the skies, and to all living treading upon the land: all green stems to food."

YHWH: "You will eat from all tree[s] of the garden. And from [the] tree [of] the discernment [of] functional and dysfunctional - you will not eat from him, given that in [the] day you eat from him: die, you will die."

YHWH ELOHIYM: "Not functional is the human [as] a stick {i.e.: a single branch}. I will do to him help, like opposite him."

The woman, quoting Elohiym to the serpent regarding the Tree of Discernment of Function and Dsfunction: "You will not eat from him, and you will not touch him, otherwise you will die."

YHWH: "Where [are] you?"

"Who made face-to-face to you that you [are] naked? From the tree which I did much direct you except from him to eat: you will eat."

"What [is} this you have done?"

"Given that you did do this, spit-upon [are] you from all the beast and from all the living. Upon your belly you will walk and powder you will eat all the days of your living. And hostility I will set down between you and between the woman and between your seed and between her seed. He will fall upon your head, and you will fall upon his heel."

"Make increase - I will make increase your (singular) hardship and your (singular) pregnancy; in distressing pain you (singular) will bring forth sons; and to your (singular) man you (singular) [will be] following, and he will regulate in you."

"Given that you hearkened to [the] voice [of] your woman and you will eat from the tree from which I did much direct you, saying you will not eat from him, the ground [is] spitted-upon in your crossing-over; in hardship you (masculine singular) will eat her all days you live. And bramble and thistle she [the land] will make spring up to you, and you ate stem[s] [of] the field. In sweat [of] your noses you (masculine singular) will eat bread until you turn back to the ground, given that you [are] powder and to powder you will turn back."

YHWH ELOHIYM: "Though the human existed like one from us, to know functional and dysfunctional, and now otherwise he will send his hand and take also from Tree [of] the Livings and ate and lived to distant time."

YHWH to Qayin (acquired = 'Cain'), regarding Hevel (vanity, whiff = 'Abel'):

"To what (why) did he flare up to you, and why did your faces fall? [Do] not. If you will make do well, lift up. And if you will not make do well, opening to failure [is] stretching out. [He (Abel) is] following you, and you will regulate [rule] in him."

"Where [is] Hevel your brother?"

"What you did do [the] voice of your brother's bloods [is] crying out to me from the ground. And now spitted-upon [are] you from the ground which parted her mouth to take your brother's bloods from your hand. Given that, you will serve the ground [but] she will not make her strength add to you. Staggering and nodding you will exist in the land."

"For (to avoid) this, all killing Qayin, seven times will he be made avenged."

Male and female he (Elohiym) did fatten them, and he will much kneel at them, and he will call out their title "Human" in the day they be fattened. (Gen 5:2)

YHWH: "My wind will not moderate in the human to distant time; he [is] flesh. And his days were one hundred and twenty years." (Gen 6:3)

"I will wipe away the human which I did fatten upon [the] faces [of the] ground, from human[s] to beast to treader and to flyer [of] the skies, so that I am comforted given that I did do (make) them."

ELOHIYM: "[The] conclusion [of] all flesh came to my faces, given that violence filled the land from their faces. Look! I am damaging (destroying) them [from] the land."

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-07-23   16:25:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Vicomte13, A K A Stone (#4)

God's Economics In His Own Words

God gave Man all the abundance that Man could ever utilize, everything physical on Earth that Man needed and would likely ever want. What need was there for economy of anything?

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-07-23   17:51:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: SOSO (#8)

God gave Man all the abundance that Man could ever utilize, everything physical on Earth that Man needed and would likely ever want. What need was there for economy of anything?

The word "economony" is composed of two words: "oikos", which is Greek for "house", and "nomos" which is Greek for "law".

So, "economy" - oikonomia - is "the law of the house".

From the beginning, there was a divine oikonomia: Humans and animals were given a world abundant with plants, which they were to eat. God provided.

They were to reproduce and fill the land, and humans were to subdue it and rule it - and rule the animals - but "ruling" the animals did not mean killing them for food. It did mean tending flocks and drinking their milk. Abel offered a gift of milk from the ewes of his flocks to God; Cain offered food from the plants of the field.

Men did not require clothing. They were naked. They didn't need to farm: the food was available for the taking.

It was all functional. It worked according to God's design.

But then man stretched forth his hand and ate from the fruit of the tree of knowledge of function and dysfunction, and the very first effect was to see he was naked. The first instinct was to take plants and use them to make coverings. It was God who provided Adam and Eve with clothes of animal skins.

And thus a need was born, a new need, not planned by God in the design of his garden and the world. By design, men and women walk naked like the other animals, stretch forth their hands and eat from the trees, and the animals eat herbs.

Man was a gardener, tending and keeping the garden of delight, and ruling the animals, but the animals did not fear man - there being no need to.

The first killing in Scripture is a man killing his brother. The next killing mentioned is Lamech threatening his two wives, reminding them how he killed a man and a boy for trivialities. Violence sprawls out of control, and God drowns it in a flood.

So, the original divine economy for man is easy. Naked, free, tending the garden, eating at will, no need for any violence, and no need for specific labor.

But with the Fall comes labor: now clothes have to be made - a major undertaking in and of itself. And now the ground is "spitted on" because of the humans' act. Now it doesn't bring forth things easy as in a garden of delight. Now it brings forth thorns and thistles, and man is no longer eating lovely fruit off trees, he's eating green plants out of the field, like an animal. He is cooking his bread, which he has to obtain through the sweat of his brow from cursed land. Reproduction, which was before moderate, becomes immoderate. Lust is awakened, and childbirth comes with pain and perhaps death. Death stalks the land, the promise of it.

And man starts dealing death out to other men, first Cain and Abel, then others. Until finally there is so much violence that God decides the baptize the world to wash away all of the sin by drowning all breathers on land in the Great Flood.

The oikonomia, the law of the house, changed as men fell, and became worse and worse. Once men have to clothe themselves and grow food with labor, things get harder, and scarcer. Once women are out of action with agonizing childbirth, things get harder. Once men introduce violence against each other, things get worse still.

It is Cain who builds the first city. Men were to fill the land and subdue it, but with Cain, they instead clump and live together - perhaps for protection and assistance in a a world in which they now NEED it.

Cities bring with them disease, excrement, problems. Men do not live as well in cities. Even today North Dakotans far outlive New Yorkers, and in an age before sanitation, that much moreso. The habit of fleeing Paris in August is not some new French invention of the leisure class. Everybody who was not a destitute beggar got out of Paris in August, going SOMEWHERE out in the country, ever since the middle ages. To live in a hot, fetid city full of people and crowded buildings was to invite the plague and heatstroke.

More dysfunction.

With greater dysfunction comes greater and greater law from God, but the original laws, which we have just read from God's mouth, are not repealed:

Man is still commanded to reproduce, increase, fill the land and subdue her. His food is still the animals. He still has to clothe himself. The curse on the soil was removed by God with the Flood, but the need to work to eat remains. Childbirth is still painful and dangerous. The need for medical care remains. And incessant violence, of men against men, of men against animals, of animals against men, of animals against animals, and of tiny creatures, "the life of the land" - bacteria and the life - preying on all large creatures as diseases and parasites. The fallen world does not have the generous and simple economy of the Garden.

It is within the context of a fallen, violent, difficult world that God will create one (and only one) state, give it land, give it all of its laws, and rule it directly: Israel - ancient Israel. Modern Israel calls itself Israel, but it is not the Israel of the Bible. The Israel of the Bible was judged and doomed by Christ and removed forever from the world by the Roman Armies in Christ's generation in fulfillment of that commandment.

The absurd notion that, in the age of the Reign of God through his Son, the heir, it is preposterous to believe that the executed corpse of ancient Israel can be resurrected and the old, God-governed and protected Israel of the Mosaic covenant be restored to a people who refuse to accept the rulership of the Son of God - a fundamental condition for all.

But there are fools who believe that. For them, there is this thread, when we finally get there. God's own mouth will explain to them that for Israel to be blessed, the Israel of the covenant at Sinai, it must follow ALL of the laws of Torah; otherwise it is cursed. And then further on we will see Jesus invoke those final judgment clauses of the Torah and doom Israel to total destruction, and hand over the promise to those who follow God, who are only those who follow HIM and no others. Jews today still reject Christ, and therefore this counterfeit Israel is not blessed, it is in fact still damned and doomed by God, directly in his own words. We will see all of that.

Modern Israel is an idol, not a blessing to anybody. God says it clearly enough. Ancient Israel wasn't destroyed by accident. It was destroyed, three times, by God.

The only way to please God is by doing what he said, and he says explicitly that today the only way to do that is by following Christ. Nothing else. Following the Torah will not do it. God made sure of that by making a complicated ritual in the Torah, a fundamental part of the law, which MUST be followed or doom follows - and it was God himself who utterly removed the Temple AND the priesthood, making it physically IMPOSSIBLE to fufill all of the law of Torah - and thereby making it IMPOSSIBLE to continue to carry out the Sinai Covenant. God said that it ALL had to be followed, or it was all for nought, and HE made it completely impossible to continue to carry out the Sinai Covenant.

Now, it is the Covenant of Christ, or NOTHING. Persisting in Jewish ritual, in Israel, without Christ, is idolatry and defiance of God. God SAID so, and made it manifest by sending the ROmans to destroy the Temple AND, more importantly, the line of the priesthood, permanently rendering it physically impossible to EVER AGAIN carry out the Sinai Covenant. The Sinai Covenant is gone with the wind. The LAW still stands - and it cannot be carried out. And THEREFORE the ONLY covenant that remains to man is the Covenant of Christ. It is THAT, or NOTHING. No "second option".

Israel is an attempt at a second option. It is a defiance of God, in plain sight. Christians should not be enthusiastically supporting an aggressive colonial war in favor of a religious fairy tale, for JESUS pronounced the death sentence on Israel.

All of this is PERFECTLY CLEAR when one reads God's direct words. And it is perfectly obscured by Christians who make up bullshit they like better and substitute their idolatry and stupid ideas and ignorance for what God said.

THAT is why I am going through what God said, word by word, so that "Christians" can argue straight with God. They are not entitled to their own opinions, as Christians, when those opinions conflict directly with what God said. They must either abandon their opinions and submit to every word of God, OR they must leave the faith - because they are not really IN it anyway, they're just deluding themselves.

That's the way it is.

We're not to Christ yet, though.

We're back at the beginning, seeing in short staccato bursts from God how he made a wonderful world, how men marred it, how in particular man marred it by VIOLENCE, and that God specifically drowned the world because of VIOLENCE.

That's what HE said, and he did not say anything else. So, whoever says different is adding to Scripture and challenging God on his own direct words. And is therefore a stupid idiot who should shut his pie hole and submit completely to the direct words of God, and not spout one word of additional fantasy. God SAID why he destroyed the world - and it was not idolatry, and it was not sexual license. It was VIOLENCE. THAT is why.

We had better remember, then, when we start spewing bullshit of how the violence that WE think is ok is ok, that GOD drowned all of humanity except for eight, specifically because of VIOLENCE, and we had better be attentive to the bare handful of cases in which God himself EVER permitted violence after that.

All of it is in his own words. It's all THERE, and people who claim "Bible Alone" had better be willing to SUBMIT to the God who SPEAKS in Bible alone, and stop trying to lie, shuck, jive, and make up idols that let them to do what they want.

After all, we HAVE the example of Israel, once again from God's own mouth, to which he gave ALL THE LAWS, covering EVERYTHING. The Hebrews DID NOT WANT to do all that. Specifically, they wanted laws more congenial to themselves concerning violence, money, sex and religious ritual. So they ignored God and did as they pleased, and then God destroyed them.

So, we have the EXAMPLE of what happens when men don't listen to God and do it there way.

We have that example in Christianity too: it's dying everywhere. Why? Because Christians are violent, greedy hypocrites, that's why. People are not persuaded by their example. And so the faith dies, but the faith that is dying is a counterfeit of what God said.

So, here, we're just cutting through all of the bullshit, and all of the shallow pseudo-intellectual reasoning of men, trying to justify whatever they want to do, and we're just looking at what GOD said, directly, out of his own mouth.

And then we will know what we MUST DO, if we don't want to die.

We will be coming to the example of Israel, and all of the laws of violence and money placed on Israel. This is God ruling a people directly, HIS opinions, for their permanent good. Israel was destroyed because they would not do it. And Christians have destroyed themselves and their religious organizations because they refuse also to obey God's judgment on these things.

But I'm going to tell it straight, straight from God, because God has talked to me, face to face, and what HE says is what he said in that book, straight, and I am tired of Christians yapping their shit-traps, making up lies, saying things that God did not say, saying things that CHALLENGE what God commanded, while claiming to be following God.

If you are not following every word that God said, straight, you are not following God.

And yes, you CAN know every word he said. It's been preserved.

And that is what is in this thread.

I said I was not going to speak as myself, and I've gone ahead and broken that. Because I am a vain, weak and stupid man.

Nevertheless, God is not vain, weak or stupid. He's omniscient, he knows better - and knew better in 4000 BC when he said these words - than all of the Christians and others of our world combined.

If a man has FAITH, he will listen to the words of God, verbatim, and conform everything he believes and thinks to that word, verbatim. And if it seems that that would mean that things he treasures cannot be sustained, then he should see right then and there that the thing he treasures is evil, is bad for him, and he should stop treasuring it and throw it away, and turn full-face to God.

And LISTEN TO HIM.

Now I will shut up and try to restrain myself from doing that again on this thread.

Please DON'T TALK TO ME here.

Please address what GOD said, in HIS words, which are collected here. HE is the one who speaks out of the Scripture. I'm merely compiling it front and center because I am so disgusted by Christian resistance to God that I am ready to hurl.

Instead, I'll repeat what God said, front to back, word for word, in exacting translation.

It IS clear. Those who claim it is not are agents of Satan, seeking to render muddy that which is clear. It's clear and it's hard. Do it as he said, or die. Same deal as always. If you want to live, obey. Otherwise, to hell with you: die.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-07-23   18:44:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Vicomte13 (#9)

And thus a need was born, a new need, not planned by God in the design of his garden and the world.

How can you say that with a straight face? If God is the all knowing, timeless, infinity being, God knew even before He physically created Man what the outcome would be. He went ahead with the Creation anyway.

Please address what GOD said, in HIS words, which are collected here."

According to you. Our in those times when God spoke with you did He ordain you as the modern day Moses?

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-07-23   21:32:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Vicomte13 (#9)

But I'm going to tell it straight, straight from God, because God has talked to me, face to face, and what HE says is what he said in that book, straight, and I am tired of Christians yapping their shit-traps, making up lies, saying things that God did not say, saying things that CHALLENGE what God commanded, while claiming to be following God.

Bully for you. But save your rants to those that make up lies about God etc.. But what shall we call you, the modern day Moses? Did God give you another name when He authorized you to speak for Him? Vicomte13 the Baptist....no that is taken. Vicomte13 the Soul Catcher perhaps? Vicomte13 the Rounder? God's Handler?

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-07-23   21:36:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Vicomte13 (#7)

Any disputes so far?

Yes. You haven't addressed what Pastor Butch said. He had actual references to scripture. Like Genesis chapter x verse z.

What is your source? Did you write that up yourself? Cut and paste from where?

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-07-23   22:12:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: SOSO (#8)

What need was there for economy of anything?

A little, itsie-bitsie, teeny-weenie consideration called the US Dollar.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-07-23   22:40:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: buckeroo (#13)

What need was there for economy of anything? A little, itsie-bitsie, teeny-weenie consideration called the US Dollar.

In Eden more likely some form of the shekel.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-07-23   23:14:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: redleghunter, SOSO, A K A Stone, All (#7)

Sticking for a moment to the words God spoke from creation to the Flood, we find a parallelism. God didn't say much, but what he said stuck, even the order he said it.

The FIRST commandment God gave as Reproduce (repeated for emphasis: Increase!, and repeated yet again "Fill the land!") - the sheer power of the human sex drive was the first thing put into us after life itself.

And when Adam and Eve ate of the fruit of the forbidden tree, of the knowledge of function and dysfunction, the very first dysfunction that awakened in them was sexual shame: they realized they were naked, they put together makeshift clothing of fig leaves, and they hid from the Creator because they were naked. The first commandment was paralleled by the first dysfunction after the Fall.

The punishment God imposed on Eve was that now her childbearing would be in great pain.

The second commandment was dietary: what to eat. In the Garden, man and woman simply stretched forth their hands to eat the fruit of the trees, as God ordained they should. But once the fall came, God prescribed to Adam that now the ground would be "spat upon" on account of him. Whereas before, every green plant and all of the fruits of the trees were for man's use, in the garden, now the land would not be functional to man. Now thistles and thorns, inedible things, would come from the soil. Now, instead of fruit of the trees, man would eat the shoots and woody stems (herbs) of the ground, and man would have to coax it out of the ground.

What was easy before, and functional, now was dysfunctional.

And with the need for clothing and the need to work for food begins scarcity of resources. In Paradise, resources were not scarce. Man still had a job, and woman beside him: to tend the garden, to rule the animals. This was a pleasant, non-violent task, done naked, in a world of endless food - stretch forth the hand and eat.

But now, dysfunction springs forth. Now, man feels he needs clothing, and now instead of simply eating the fruit of the garden, he must work the land, and it is set against him. Instead of sweet fruit eaten raw, he must work to bring forth woody-stemmed herbs and eat the sprouting grasses like animals, and now he must make them into bread. It's harder. The economy principle of scarcity has entered the world as the result of dysfunction.

And soon enough, dysfunction builds upon dysfunction. For the rulership of the animals still allowed for the ease of eating milk, but Cain killed Abel, not for greed, but out of spite. Dysfunction breeds dysfunction. Violence increases, and God decides to baptize the world, washing it of the shedding of blood, by removing the breath from the nostrils of every land animal, including man, by drowning.

After the Flood, we find God telling Noah that the land is no longer cursed. Thus, we have the archetype of baptism.

In six chapters God's words have been spare, but they carry the weight. And those natural laws God pronounced, and the consequences God ordained for dysfunction, remain the law to this day.

Shame, the scarcity of food, and the potential for human violence driven both by need and by simple spite and wounded pride - and the need to provide for security against that - establish the fundamental particles that underpin economic scarcity and that drive the base of human activity.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-07-25   21:29:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Vicomte13, redleghunter, A K A Stone, All (#15)

Shame, the scarcity of food, and the potential for human violence driven both by need and by simple spite and wounded pride - and the need to provide for security against that - establish the fundamental particles that underpin economic scarcity and that drive the base of human activity.

Wow, that's some stretch, kinda like a shaggy dog story.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-07-25   22:03:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: SOSO, redleghunter, Fred Mertz (#16)

For your edification.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-07-25   23:09:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: A K A Stone (#17)

I listened for about 2 minutes. What is your point?

Fred Mertz  posted on  2015-07-25   23:28:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Fred Mertz (#18)

If you have more then 2 minutes sometime. Give it a complete listen. I believe you will learn something important. That is why I pinged you Fred.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-07-25   23:47:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Vicomte13 (#15)

of the knowledge of function and dysfunction,

You mean the knowledge of good and evil>

Do you read greek?

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-07-25   23:53:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: A K A Stone (#20)

The Hebrew Bible quoted God in Hebrew. The Greek is a translation.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-07-26   15:58:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: SOSO (#16)

Shaggy dog story? Shame is spoken of directly: Adam and Eve hid because they were naked. The scarcity of food is spoken of directly: indeed, it is the SENTENCE God imposes on Adam for eating from the tree.

The spite of Cain is spoken of directly. God speaks of it to him, tells him not to be so crestfallen and angry, to buck up, and Abel will follow him. Instead, Cain goes right out and kills Hevel.

Shame, scarcity and violence from spite. No shaggy dog story there, no "stretch" - it's right THERE is the very words of Scripture.

This is the problem in a nutshell: Scripture can say something directly, and men will deny that's what it says and substitute their own desires for it.

It's why Christianity is fading everywhere: the dishonesty of men.

Anyway, God said what he said, and what he said was sparing in terms of words, and clear as a bell. There isn't anything ambiguous in what he said so far. I'm going to quote him again, in totum and in order, and then move on to the next thing he says.

The roots of the economy of the world are contained in the few spare words God said in the first six chapters of Genesis: food, clothing, reproduction and the rising potential for violence from spite: these are the very things that drive the bulk of human activity and expenditure.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-07-26   16:05:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: All (#22)

What God said, so far:

ELOHIYM [the Powers]: "Or [order or light] will exist." "Day." "Night."

"A sheet will exist in midst of the waters, making separate waters to waters." "Skies."

"The waters from under the skies will be bound up into one area and the dry ground will be seen." "Land." "Seas."

"The land will make sprout shoots, stems making sowing seed, produce tree making produce of his kind with his seed in him, upon the land."

"Luminaries will exist in [the] sheet [of] the skies to make separate between the day and the night, and they exist to [make] signs and to [make] appointed [times], and to days and years, and the luminaries exist in [the] sheet [of] the skies to make light upon the land."

"Swarmers will swarm the waters, living beings, and flyers upon the land will much fly upon [the] faces [of the] sheet [of] the skies."

"Reproduce! And increase! And fill the waters in the seas! And flyers, increase in the land."

"The land will make go out kind[s] of living beings, beasts and treaders, and living land beings [of] their kind[s]."

"We will do human in [the] image [of] us, like the likeness [of] us, and he ruled in swimmers [of] the sea and in flyers [of] the skies, and in the beast, and in all the land, and in all [of] the treader treading upon the land."

"Reproduce! And increase! And fill the land! And subdue her! Rule in swimmers [of] the sea and in flyer [of] the skies and in all living treading upon the land."

"Look! I gave all stems sowing seeds that [are] upon [the] faces [of] all the land. And each produce tree[s] that in him sowing seeds; to you [it] will exist for food. And to all living [in] the land, and to all flyer [of] the skies, and to all living treading upon the land: all green stems to food."

YHWH: "You will eat from all tree[s] of the garden. And from [the] tree [of] the discernment [of] functional and dysfunctional - you will not eat from him, given that in [the] day you eat from him: die, you will die."

YHWH ELOHIYM: "Not functional is the human [as] a stick {i.e.: a single branch}. I will do to him help, like opposite him."

The woman, quoting Elohiym to the serpent regarding the Tree of Discernment of Function and Dsfunction: "You will not eat from him, and you will not touch him, otherwise you will die."

YHWH: "Where [are] you?"

"Who made face-to-face to you that you [are] naked? From the tree which I did much direct you except from him to eat: you will eat."

"What [is} this you have done?"

"Given that you did do this, spit-upon [are] you from all the beast and from all the living. Upon your belly you will walk and powder you will eat all the days of your living. And hostility I will set down between you and between the woman and between your seed and between her seed. He will fall upon your head, and you will fall upon his heel."

"Make increase - I will make increase your (singular) hardship and your (singular) pregnancy; in distressing pain you (singular) will bring forth sons; and to your (singular) man you (singular) [will be] following, and he will regulate in you."

"Given that you hearkened to [the] voice [of] your woman and you will eat from the tree from which I did much direct you, saying you will not eat from him, the ground [is] spitted-upon in your crossing-over; in hardship you (masculine singular) will eat her all days you live. And bramble and thistle she [the land] will make spring up to you, and you ate stem[s] [of] the field. In sweat [of] your noses you (masculine singular) will eat bread until you turn back to the ground, given that you [are] powder and to powder you will turn back."

YHWH ELOHIYM: "Though the human existed like one from us, to know functional and dysfunctional, and now otherwise he will send his hand and take also from Tree [of] the Livings and ate and lived to distant time."

YHWH to Qayin (acquired = 'Cain'), regarding Hevel (vanity, whiff = 'Abel'):

"To what (why) did he flare up to you, and why did your faces fall? [Do] not. If you will make do well, lift up. And if you will not make do well, opening to failure [is] stretching out. [He (Abel) is] following you, and you will regulate [rule] in him."

"Where [is] Hevel your brother?"

"What you did do [the] voice of your brother's bloods [is] crying out to me from the ground. And now spitted-upon [are] you from the ground which parted her mouth to take your brother's bloods from your hand. Given that, you will serve the ground [but] she will not make her strength add to you. Staggering and nodding you will exist in the land."

"For (to avoid) this, all killing Qayin, seven times will he be made avenged."

Male and female he (Elohiym) did fatten them, and he will much kneel at them, and he will call out their title "Human" in the day they be fattened. (Gen 5:2)

YHWH: "My wind will not moderate in the human to distant time; he [is] flesh. And his days were one hundred and twenty years." (Gen 6:3)

"I will wipe away the human which I did fatten upon [the] faces [of the] ground, from human[s] to beast to treader and to flyer [of] the skies, so that I am comforted given that I did do (make) them."

ELOHIYM: "[The] conclusion [of] all flesh came to my faces, given that violence filled the land from their faces. Look! I am damaging (destroying) them [from] the land."

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-07-26   16:07:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Vicomte13 (#23)

I haven't seen any economics in this thred.

No answers to any questions.

Just you cutting and pasting. And correcting what is said to be Gods word.

The thread is not as advertised.

I'll get back to you if you ever respond to what Pastor Butch said. I'll go with Pastor Butch as you can't refute anything he says.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-07-26   16:14:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: A K A Stone (#24)

If you are not seeing economics, you are not looking.

Economics: oikonomia - oikos nomos - the rule of the house.

What are the "laws" of economics? Scarcity. Supply, demand and substitution. What drives scarcity? That nature of the world, both the need to eat and to be clothed, and to protect.

For most of human history, economics consisted of agriculture for the purpose of eating and clothing. Before men built houses, they lived in skin tents that were themselves the products of agriculture.

Why? Because God set up our food needs a certain way, and our reproduction a certain way. There was no money economy for thousands of years. There was the basic economy of hand-to-mouth, and the parameters of those needs were established by God right in those very few sentences he spoke in the first eight chapters.

Reproduce. Eat this. And now, shame leading to clothing - a massively toilsome thing to have to make and clean. Throughout history until the steam age, women were primarily at work in the home raising children, preparing food and spinning yarn to make clothing, then making the clothing, cleaning and repairing it.

In 1775, when America became independent, 90% of the economic activity of the people of America, whether Whites OR Indians, consisted of growing food, making and repairing clothes, raising children, and making and repairing dwellings against the elements and that was it. Most of the rest of the activity consisted of defensive activities against other human threats: militia drills, keeping armaments, worrying about politics, worrying about Indian wars, wording about the French sailing right into a harbor, blasting away with cannons.

Children, food, clothes and shelter - and protecting the land and people that provided those things against violence - that WAS the economic activity of humankind, everywhere, from the Flood until the Industrial Revolution.

And for most people, that still IS their primary focus in life, where 95% of their economic activity goes. We may not be growing the food directly now, but the money economy pays for food, clothes, education, shelter and protection. Strip those out of it, and about all that is left is entertainment. We place inordinate attention on entertainment, but the basic thrust of human activity to this day is focused on family, food, clothes, shelter and protection.

And those very needs (minus shelter) arise in the spare language of God I've quoted.

Sex and food and direct commandments. Clothing is the result of the Fall. So is defense against violence, arising from the fallen nature of men. Also, with reproduction and food limits, and with human violence establishing imperium, holding land for farming becomes the focus of government and war and law.

If you don't see economics in what God has said so far in Genesis, you're not looking. Or you're not thinking properly about economics. The fundamental of economics is scarcity, and that is the product of the Fall.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-07-26   20:19:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: A K A Stone (#24)

You go with Pastor Butch. I haven't listened to him. I've been focused on what I said I was going to focus on, and on life off the Board, and I'll stay focused on it.

I'm about to move to Noah's Ark, which is the next thing God says.

The words that God says are fundamental.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-07-26   20:20:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Vicomte13 (#26)

You go with Pastor Butch. I haven't listened to him.

God put it on my heart to make sure you listen to the complete audio.

He said he doesn't want you to be willingly ignorant.

Just relaying what God put on my heart.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-07-26   20:26:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: A K A Stone (#27)

God put it on my heart to make sure you listen to the complete audio.

He said he doesn't want you to be willingly ignorant.

Just relaying what God put on my heart.

Ok. Based on that endorsement, I will listen to the video and let you know what I think.

I am not willingly ignorant, or willfully either. I'll listen. I'll comment. Then I will return to the theme of Economics according to God.

It starts at Genesis. Each word God said lays down economic planks that will determined everything else later on: food, clothing, housing, the problem of violence.

The next thing God said after what I've quoted above are the instructions to Noah regarding the Ark. I was going to skip over them with only a brief comment, because God's design specs regarding the Ark are tedious, detailed, and don't contain any obvious economic or moral content.

But then I thought about it and realized that God does not let words fall lightly. On five occasions in the Bible, God is deadly dull and thudding in his precise specifications, spelling things to be built out detail by detail. This makes for dull reading, but it highlights something that's pretty important. The details are not themselves important to us, but the fact that God went into precise minutiae: how long this was to be, how many knobs that was to have, precisely how the loops were to be looped, what artwork would be where: it demonstrates the precision with which God speaks.

Many say that the Scripture are vague generalities regarding moral content: the "Watchmaker God" gave a few general rules and then stepped back. But the detailed specifications of the Ark, the Meeting Tent and its accouterments, and the Temple vision of Ezekiel tell the opposite story: God is precise. And lest we think that in his precision he is not directive, we need only look to the two sons of Aaron who, at the consecration of the Meeting Tent, did what they thought expedient and put incense on a censer and burnt it, to add something to the ceremony. God immediately reached out of the altar with fire and killed them on the spot - and then he forbade Aaron to leave the tent or to break off the seven days of consecration. God's instructions about holy things are precise, and when men deviated from them slightly, he killed them on the spot.

We should keep that in mind when we read God's law, what God had to say about things. A few times in Scripture he warns men not to add or to take away. This is why I think it's very important to see precisely what God said, in the precise Hebrew, and to think for extended periods on it.

Something simple like the law of reproduction, which is directly given twice, the first two commandments given to mankind (Reproduce! Increase!), and whose implications follow in the next two commandments (Fill the land! Subdue her!) - we are inclined to just glide past that, but it is in fact fundamental to everything.

First, it explains the sheer power of the human sex drive, which leads men and women astray. The sex drive isn't an accident - it's the first two commandments given to man AND the animals. Sex is the Prime Directive, of God, to animals and man. We are not supposed to RESIST the sex drive, we are supposed to obey it. But we're supposed to obey it in ways that meet God's moral requirements. And that, in turn, brings into play all of the moral laws regarding fornication and adultery, sodomy and birth control and abortion; also land law and the law of charity, as a full land that produces babies has to feed those babies - but the law against murder means that killing them is not a godly option...which may force a change of ideas about the social order and property, in order to obey God's laws regarding reproduction and violence.

The economic implications of a few words of God are vast, and human logic of trying to fit what God said into the world as we think it should be ordered is very much like the mistake of Aaron's sons. Rather, we must fit the structures of the world we make, our governance and laws and social structure, to fit what God said.

And we need to know what God said WITH PRECISION. He didn't spew out pages and pages of explanation. He's God, the King, the Lord, the Creator. He said a few direct words. It is our role to hear them as spoken, and to treat them as we would treat directions from the President and CEO of the companies for which we work. If he says "Don't swear at work", and we cuss at work, can we be surprised if we get punished for that.

Consider the traditional belief: God said "Don't eat from that particular tree", two people did, and now every man and every animal since then, without exception, has to die for it. Now, I would assert that the text does NOT in fact say that, and that the traditional belief regarding death and the tree is an error, an addition to the text, but most people accept the traditional belief. Certainly the traditional belief regarding death establishes that what God says in a few words is absolutely literally binding, and that when God says something, he MEANS just exactly that, without deviation.

God said don't eat from the tree - and tradition says that all death came from two people eating from the tree.

God said fill the land. The Tower of Babel was destroyed and people scattered because they chose to remain clumped together as one people instead of filling the land.

God said "Reproduce!" "Increase!" Thereby establishing the Prime Directive for human activity. Can we be surprised, then, that the societies that once led the world, having taking up contraception with a will only 55 years ago, are now collapsing everywhere, being flooded with immigrants from fecund civilizations that follow God's first and second commandment. The disappearance of the white man everywhere in the world is the result of contraception. He is being replaced in the land by others who reproduce. Reproduce, increase and fill the land are the first three commandments.

Not suggestions - commandments. They are the first purpose of human life. To refuse to reproduce, increase and fill the land is not a "choice", it's a belligerent defiance of God's first three commandments. It is eating the fruit of the tree.

The wages of sin is death. Can we be surprised that White civilization, which everywhere embraced contraception - defying the Prime Directive to Reproduce, Increase and Fill the Land - is now everywhere in decline, dying out and being replaced? This is not an accident. It is the judgment of God. It was always inevitable.

God said to reproduce, increase and fill the land. Those are the first three commandments, given directly. They will be given four more times in the Bible. They're not optional - God gave you a body, and gave you a PURPOSE for that body. If you refuse to reproduce, increase and fill the land with it, you are trying to wrest control of your body from its owner. You will fail, you will die. And if your civilization refuses to have babies, then as you die out, you will be replaced in the land by other people who DO follow God's Prime Directive.

The emptying out of Europe and America of whites, thanks to contraception, and the filling up of those lands with Middle Easterners and Latin Americans, thanks to their fecundity, is not an accident. It is the judgment of God for defiance of his commandments, and it is the reward from God for fulfilling those commandments.

And there is NOTHING that we can do to resist it. Nothing. The single sole solitary thing we can do is to stop defying God and have babies, lots of babies.

And if our economic system, as configured, cannot handle that, then our economic system is itself evil, set up contrary to the principles of God, and we need to completely restructure our concept of economics, money, property, land and transactions in order to permit men and women to fulfill the prime directive from God: to reproduce, increase, fill the land and subdue her.

THAT is what human civilization is about: obeying God. We're dying out because we've turned from the commandments - the basic biological commandments, and MADE IT about accumulating wealth, comfort, entertainment, enrichment, status.

To afford those things at a level exceeding what is good for us physically and spiritually, we have cut off reproduction, turning sex into the ultimate recreational activity in life and entertainment. And the net result of grasping this fruit of dysfunction and eating it is dysfunction, which expresses itself in a growing population hole, which then fills up with people from elsewhere who have lots of children, in accordance with God's commandments, and who are filling the land - "Our" land - and subduing it with their numbers - with God's blessing.

If you do not see the economics in "Reproduce! Increase! Fill the land! Subdue her!" you have scales on your eyes.

The American immigration/abortion/moral debate is directly concerned with the first four commandments God gave.

The inability to see if fatal - the poison spreads. The refusal to change once one has seen is idolatry. Truth is, most white people prefer their economic and political values over God's. Which is why our civilization behaves as it does. Which is why, in turn, we are dying out and being replaced in the land by people who DO reproduce and increase, and who ARE filling the land - land we call "ours", but that all belongs to God. Part of their "subduing" the land is subduing us, who are already in the land, through political control. We see it coming, and we're powerless to stop it except by knuckling under to God and doing it his way.

We cannot understand his way, or even know that he HAS a way, if we won't focus on precisely what HE said.

Which is what I am doing.

I can take a detour to listen to Pastor Butch, to satisfy your burden. And I shall. Now. And I won't write more until I have.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-07-27   9:34:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: A K A Stone (#27)

Ok, I listened. I agree with almost everything that he said. The place where he deviates a bit from reality is in insisting on the English meanings of the word "Day", and "Light" (and also "Darkness", by implication). and thereby forcing, in effect, a 24-hour day on the word "day".

So now let's clear that up.

First, he's right that the geological ages as described by scientific theory do not line up with the Genesis record. He's right that evolution does not explain the origins of life. He's right that the "General Catacyclsm" theory not only doesn't work as a matter of the fossil record, but also doesn't work on the Biblical record either.

He's right overall: Genesis DOES describe the origins of the world, through specific creation in a relatively short period of time.

He's an intelligent man who teaches much truth, and means to teach the whole truth. It's a shame that I could not sit down with him privately and show him the missing pieces of his understanding, that make it all much clearer. The missing pieces are found in the text itself, not simply in the Hebrew words, but in the pictographic sentences that form those words.

He mentions the writing system of the Chaldeans/Babylonians. Yes, they had a writing system. But the Bible was not written in that system. It was, instead, written using the Old Canaanitic/Phoenician pictographs, which were themselves derived from the Egyptian hieroglyphs. This is important, for each letter of a pictographic word is not a phonetic letter (although it CAN be). Rather, each letter is ITSELF a word, and the "words" formed by the pictographs are themselves in fact sentences.

The thing about Genesis which renders it an utter miracle in the Creation account is that the pictographic sentences that comprise each word of surface Hebrew themselves give a great deal of data about what is going on. The writing is a holographic fractal. When we read in translation words like "Day" and "Light", we see very simple concepts. In the Hebrew, however, these are not simply words (which mean more than just "day" and "light" - they are words that are first used BEFORE God specifically defines them, and they are words themselves composed of pictographs which form a sentence, and which describe what is going on.

A single example. The first word of the Bible, "Bereshiyt", is traditionally translated as "in the beginning", but it doesn't really mean that. It is, as a stand alone word, more like the word "Capitulo" at the top of a chapter heading. And the word ITSELF is composed of pictographs which, when read as a sentence, read "In head God divided in two pointing to the Cross". The word "God" contained in the word is a pictographic singular, El, but when the word "God" first appears as a separate word, it is as "Elohiym", a plural.

In other words, within the "Beginning" and before time unravels, the very first word of the Bible states the begetting of the Son by El, the Father. It's right there, in plain sight, to those who read Hebrew pictographs. Which is pretty much nobody. The Hebrew letters of the post-Babylonian captivity are stylized Aramaic letters, and no longer the pictographs. Jews do not read the pictographs, or even know they ARE pictographs. Our letters are derived from these also, and WE don't know they are pictographs.

Yet, they are. And in those pictographs we see what "light", and "day" meant, and we see the original conditions. Genesis doesn't start or read the way that the pastor thinks it does, exactly. The "Day- Epock" theory is right, in a sense, though the days are of indeterminate length.

Likewise the word we translate as "light" is "Or", and it means order. "Day" is a period of "or" - which can be both simple light, but also a period of order. "Good" and "evil" are not there, what is there is function (ordered-ness) and dysfunction (disorder, chaos, entropy, tending back towards the "mem", which can be waters, but before so defined, "waters' is a chaos of matter and not simply H2O.

It's not particularly confusing, really. We could go through it.

When the words are read right, theology changes only slightly. The most important word that really does make a theological difference is the word that we translate as "forever". It is not "forever". It is "to a distant/unknown time". And that really DOES make a difference. The fact is that God never promises the land to the Hebrews "forever". He only promises it "to a distant time", based on their good behavior. This is so very clear from the text, and from what actually HAPPENS to them.

The problem with reading "forever" where it does not appear, is that then you end up with a strange apparatus of trying to hold TWO covenants operant at the same time…that Jesus is for the world, but if one were a Jew and followed the Law perfectly, that that too would guarantee things under the Mosaic covenant, because "forever". Except that "forever" is not there.

So, it is important to get this right. And it does affect economics.

Consider how much energy is spent by Christians trying to uphold the concept of a reconstituted Israel "because 'forever'", when not only is forever not there in the text, but what IS in the text is the final judgment, by God, on Israel of the covenant, and the annunciation of a new and everlasting covenant, which is the ONLY way to the Father. Getting "forever" wrong leads to spending billions trying to raise a dead corpse that God Himself killed.

Of course, that comes much later, and we can stick to Genesis for now and move forward. Still, little nuances in Genesis make a great deal of difference later.

Thanks for having me listen to that lecturer. He was good.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-07-28   2:19:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: A K A Stone, redleghunter (#27)

Let's look at Genesis with fresh eyes. What the pastor says on the take AKA Stone posted above is true: Genesis is the most important book of the Old Testament. He gives two good reasons: (1) Every New Testament author cites it, and (2) It sets up the conditions for understanding everything else. I'll give a third: the first 11 chapters of Genesis, from Creation to the Tower of Babel, give the history of all of mankind, and within that history God gives a few laws that have always applied to all of mankind and still do. These are not the laws of Moses - they precede Moses by thousands of years. These laws were not revealed through the Jews. They were, rather, revealed directly to all of mankind (at the time) by God himself. When we read the rest of the Old Testament, we are very aware that it is addressed to Hebrews, specifically. They are given specific promises, in a specific land, for specific reasons. But when we read the first 10 chapters of Genesis, there are no Hebrews: the first of them has not yet been born. There's no Pharaoh either. There are the common ancestors of all of humanity, and God is addressing the Chinese and Hawaiian Islanders' ancestors just as much as he is addressing the ancestors of Abraham, Isaac and Moses.

The Jewish law only ever applied to Jews, but the Law of Genesis applied, and still applies, to every human. So, if you want to know history, you have to read the whole Old Testament. If you want to understand the mind of God in statecraft and economics, you have to read the entire Old Testament. But if you want to know what LAW from God actually binds you, all you have to do is read the first ten chapters of Genesis, two of the Gospels (either Matthew or Luke, and John), the first have of the Acts of the Apostles, and Revelation.

It is true that mankind is not bound by the Jewish Law, but it is not true that mankind is not bound by law. We are. The part of the Old Testament that contains all of the laws of God to which all are bound is the first few chapters of Genesis.

The first chapter even contains the laws by which matter and energy are bound.

Shall we parse that first chapter in particular detail, to be sure we really understand the language correctly and see more than we usually see of what is going on there?

I think we should, for at least two reasons. One is that seeing the depth of detail contained in the language and the pictographs that compose the language, we gain a great deal of confidence that this incredibly dense and insightful text was inspired by God very directly. A second reason is that in Genesis 1, in particular, God defines words. Sometimes he uses a word a few times, and then LATER defines it to mean something precise. We must realize that and see it clearly, if we really want to understand Genesis. An example: the word "ha'aretz" is defined by God to mean "dry land" in the second day, but it appears twice before that, in the description of the initial conditions.

This word is traditionally translated into English as "earth", but that's a particularly deceptive translation for us today, because when we hear the word "earth", we don't think of "land" (as opposed to sea and sky), we think of a PLANET. So when we read the traditional "God created the heavens and the Earth), we think of skies and planets. But what the text really says is "the skies and the land" - and both the word "skies" and "land" are given specific meanings by God several sentences later. So these words "hashamayim" ("skies") and "ha'aretz" ("land") will be ASSIGNED the specific meanings of "the sky above" and "dry land" by God only later. When they FIRST APPEAR, they DON'T mean that, because those things haven't been MADE yet. They DO mean something, though, but what they mean isn't defined in the surface words, the things that are translated.

Rather, what "hashamayim" and "ha'arets" mean BEFORE God assigns them the meanings of "skies" and "land" is actually shown hieroglyphically by the pictographs that compose these two words in Hebrew. Once they are DEFINED, by God, as simply meaning "Skies" and "land", that is what they mean. But before that, the words are not simply words, but SENTENCES of pictures that show the conditions.

OR - and this is the hard part, to accept that there is an OR meaning to it all - the first sentence of Genesis consists of the first two lines, not just one, and it is a "capitulo", a synopsis of what follows.

Whether it is one or the other is not clearly knowable, because the word that is translated as "created" is the word "bara", and it doesn't really mean created at all. It means "fattened", or more abstractly, "made more substantial".

This is why one cannot drive spikes into the ground and say "Genesis 1:1 MEANS thus and so", because actually, it CAN mean several things, all interrelated, and all evincing the same things, but quite different.

Most important theologically, within the pictographic sentences of the first line of Genesis is the division of the godhead into at least two pieces, and pluralization of the word we translate as "God" - a plural that nevertheless takes a singular verb. Also present is the ruach elohiym, the "wind" or "spirit" of God (plural) - the "Holy Spirit", and this is a feminine noun, giving meaning to the words "in God's image he made them - male and female he made them". God's image in the Hebrew is presented with distinctly feminine words as well as masculine. The Spirit of God is feminine. So is, later, the "shekinah" - the Glory of God. It is immensely important for the way that we understand God to understand that within the Scripture itself God presents God's facets as masculine and feminine. Thus, while the word "YHWH" is a masculine singular imperfect verb: "He will exist", and it is therefore correct to refer to "The Lord" as "HE", the Holy Spirit, the Ruach Elohiym, is correctly addressed only as "SHE", because it is only a feminine noun.

If that is offensive - that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are present in Genesis 1, it should not be. They are. Jews and Muslims and those who think they already know Scripture but do not may be offended, but those who seek Truth should delight.

Likewise, that the Father is a He, the Son is a He, but the Holy Spirit is a She is what the text SAYS, plainly. It's not debatable. But Christian tradition (in different languages) has called the Holy Spirit "He" for years. That is not what Scripture says however. It is not an "innovation" to call the Holy Spirit "She". It is the only correct reading of Hebrew Scriptures. The Christians are in error when they refer to the Holy Spirit as "He". The Spirit in Hebrew is feminine, and can only correctly be referred to by the feminine pronoun. It is incorrect to address the Father or the Son as "He", and it is incorrect to address the Holy Spirit, or the Spirits of God, or the Glory of God, as "he". They are "She".

Should that matter? No, it shouldn't. But if it DOES matter to somebody, this is a classic example of a man insisting on sticking with his ancient man-made tradition over against the literal, clear, unambiguous language of Scripture. Genesis is not ambiguous in the original language: the Holy Spirit is "She". That's why "in God's image" is both male and female. It fits together nicely.

But long tradition has called the Spirit "He", and men will dig in on their traditions and be in error, rather than follow what God said.

It is not PLEASANT to read Scripture literally, because one finds a lot of errors and detritus collected in one's cherished traditions.

Consider the Nicene Creed, said in Church at ever mass. The part "I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son* (*THE historical point of contention between the Catholics, who say this, and the Eastern Orthodox, who say that the Holy Spirit proceeds exclusively from the Father alone, and not from the Son). With the Father and Son HE is adored and glorified. HE has spoken through the Prophets."

No. SHE has spoken through the prophets. SHE. The Hebrew word is SHE, not He.

Yes, in Greek pneuma is neutral, not feminine, and in Latin, it is masculine. But these are translation issues. If gender matters at all - and the traditions all say it does - then the gender of the elements of the godhead matter. El is a he. Eloah is a she. God's messengers are "he's". God's glory and God's spirit are "she's".

This SHOULD be a delightful discovery, because it clears up the question over the passage in Genesis that says "in God's image he created them, male and female he made them". If God is a "he", how are females in "his" image. The answer is that God is both he and she, not abstractly, but literally in Hebrew, component by component. The reason we say "he made them" is because Elohiym, the unitive plural "God" is a plural, and in a plural group of male and female elements, one uses the male pronoun.

It all makes perfect sense - the plurality of the word "God" in Hebrew (particularly when one reads the letter-pictures of the first word and sees the division of the godhead internally before time) - and the masculine and feminine elements that compose that pluralized elohiym. It makes sense in the Hebrew, but note well: the JEWS would reject all of this, claiming that God is a monad (even though the Hebrew Scripture says the opposite). And Christians, many of them, would reject all of this as "novel", even though it is in the black and white letters of Genesis and is thousands of years old. "Allowing" the "she" in the godhead strikes a death blow to a certain traditional sexism that is not, in fact, part of the truth revealed by God, but that is very much a part of Jewish, Christian (and Muslim) traditions...and Jesus tells us all about our propensity to love our traditions so much we walk out on God.

If one comes into Genesis with a clear head, an open mind, and the willingness to accept whatever is found there as truth, then one finds the explanation of both the origins of the universe there, and insight into the internal "structure" of the godhead. We already know from Revelation that God is not simply a tri-unity, a Trinity, but is at least a nine-unity, for Revelation tells us flatly that God has Seven Spirits, not just one. And the Torah tells us also there is the Shekinah - the Glory of God - which is itself an entity appertaining to God, just as the spirit is. There is also "Sophia", Wisdom, who was alongside of the Father during creation, and who is a "She".

This is not polytheism, and it's not henatheism. It is a precise understanding of terms, and understanding the only-partially-revealed complexity of the godhead. Still, there are TWO revelations of this: one is what is written in the Hebrew. The other are the traditions of Jews, Muslims and different branches of the Christians. And these things conflict with each other. The only true one is the one that is actually written. It's THERE, in the words and pictures, and understanding it makes the Scriptures make a great deal more sense, for it means that the different names of God that appear in specific places and circumstances actually have MEANING. They are not simply synonyms for each other, but they indicate the face of the divine personality that is acting.

I try to convey these things without being argumentative, but I'll admit it's hard. It's not hard because I have an atrocious personality either. I don't. I have a fixed, stubborn personality - a Basque mind. I'm merely standing for the visible, written, truth, unchanged since written. But I am keenly aware (through long experience) that men's approach to God is really to worship the idol of their traditions, which RESEMBLES the real God who reveals himself in Scripture, and yet who differs in some subtle or important ways.

Example: the pastor's speech, which was excellent, falls into the traditional error of saying that God did not create bad things. That is false. God says himself that he does just precisely that. He said it directly in Isaiah, in the most explicit way: "I create evil". Of course, the word "evil" itself is a Greek philosophical abstraction. Hebrew is extremely concrete, and God spoke concretely. There is neither "good" nor "evil" in the Hebrew God spoke to reveal the truth. Rather, there is "function" - that which works - and "Dysfunction" - that which does not work.

When one speaks of "evil", in particular, one speaks as though there were a force of nature itself called "evil", a "think" that works bad works. Not so! There is, rather, a lack of order, a breakdown of order, a derailing of things, making them not to work. The scientific term for the tendency towards disorder is "entropy". Entropy is a fundamental law of nature, and it, too, was created by God. God never said that he made things not to fall apart: men say that in their traditions, but God never, ever says that.

What the serpent did in the Garden was to PRECIPITATE dysfunction, by inducing the woman to do that which was dysfunctional. Through the dysfunctional act, death resulted - indeed it came into the world - but that does not mean that the SOURCE of the dysfunction was the act, like the release of dark energy in some dark spell. That is the way Christian tradition and Jewish tradition and Muslim tradition treat it, but once again, what God actually SAYS in the text is a little different.

It's not COMPLETELY different. It isn't as though the tradition will lead people into a pit. But the tradition does lead to some misunderstanding that can be pretty profound, and Scripture reads clearly and less mysteriously when it is taken with the clarity and precision that God delivered it.

So let's do that. Let's parse Genesis 1 for a bit. It will serve us well, because it will define so many words we will use again and again.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-07-28   9:34:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: All, redleghunter, A K A Stone (#30)

So let's do that. Let's parse Genesis 1 for a bit. It will serve us well, because it will define so many words we will use again and again.

We have to start with Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

We have to remind ourselves of a few things: although we customarily read it in English (or French), it was not written in either. It was translated into Latin in the late 300s AD, and into Greek in the 200s BC, but Latin and Greek are Indo-European languages, related to English and French. It was originally written in Hebrew, a Semitic language.

What is more, it was not written in modern Hebrew letters. The current Hebrew letters are not "Hebrew" at all. They're Babylonian. The Jews learned the Babylonian letters, which are very stylized (and stylish). The original Hebrew is a set of pictographs closely related to Egyptian hieroglyphs. Originally, the pictographs were not phonetic letters. Rather, they were words, and they conveyed either the sound of the beginning of that word or the word's meaning, or both. Example: the first letter is called "Aleph" today. It is the root of our letter "A". It's original pictograph was an ox head (turn an "A" on its side and you'll see the horns). It was not called "Aleph", but "Al" or "El" (pronunciation of vowels is never fixed in any language).

Middle Hebrew - the Hebrew of the Massoretic Text (which is the oldest complete version of the Hebrew Bible, and dates from c. 1000 AD) - had no vowels. The Massoretes, who lived in the region of Israel called Galilee, added dots and dashes above, below and around the letters to add vowel sounds. Those dots and dashes, called "pointing" (nikkud), do not appear at all in the 1000 year older Hebrew of the Caves at Qumran - the Dead Sea Scrolls.

So, the vowel points were added later, and reflect the pronunciation that the Massorete scribes thought was correct. Of course, the Massoretes were Galileans, and we know from the Gospels that Galileans had a specific accent that was quite identifiable: as he waited by the fire during Jesus' trial, Peter was thrice accused of being Jesus' follower, by people who noted that he had a Galilean accent.

So, vowel sounds change while consonants remain relatively fixed, and the vowel points record some vowel sounds - but those sounds are probably the sound of the Hebrew Scriptures as read in 1000 AD by Galilean Jews, speaking with a Galilean accent.

Vowels are not necessary to convey meaning, especially in a consonantal system like Hebrew in which words are built up from two letter and three letter consonantal roots. If you do not believe me that vowels are unnecessary in Hebrew, go pick up a copy of the contemporary Jerusalem newspaper "Ha'aretz". The entire newspaper is printed in Hebrew consonants, with no vowel pointing at all. Major Israeli newspapers are printed with just consonants. nglsh s hrd t rd wtht vwls, bt Hbrw s mch sr. (English is hard to read without vowels, but Hebrew is easier.)

What is more, ancient Hebrew, which used the pictographs and not the Babylonian Aramaic letters, DID have vowels. Certain of the letters, such as Alef, served as vowels. TODAY, Alef has no sound at all in Hebrew. It serves as a marker that carries the sound of the vowel points placed on it. But in ancient Hebrew, it carried the sound of "Al" or "El".

This is important, because it is the first name by which God is named: usually "El", the masculine singular form. This can also be pronounced "Al" in some accents. Eloah, or Allah, is the feminine singular form of this same word. Now, "El" or "Eloah" never stands alone in the Hebrew Bible. They are used with compound names or place names, such as "El Shaddai" and "El Elyon". When the word for God stands alone in Hebrew, it's "Elohiym", a plural. Gods?

Well, the problem is that the word "God" doesn't really MEAN anything in modern English other than "The Deity". But in Hebrew, El and Eloah mean "Power" or "Mighty One", and Elohiym means "Powers" or "Mighty Ones".

So when the text refers to Elohiym, it is referring to "Powers", and personifying them. When that is kept in mind, that the word being used is the word "Powers", and not the word "God", then the use of the word becomes clearer.

For we find it distressing to read of other "gods, or even of powerful men such as judges called "gods". When we hear God saying to Moses that he, Moses, will be a god to his brother Aaron, we start to do gyrations to explain that no, God doesn't mean that, that he is speaking in hyperbole. But actually God DOES mean it, it's just that God is using the word "Powers", and "power" and mighty one, not the word God.

The word we TRANSLATE as "God" is not the word "God" at all. It's the word Powers. We are to understand that when we speak of the Powers. That's why God's NAME, before he reveals it as "YHWH", is El Elyon - which means Power Power-est - the most powerful of the powers, the Power of the Powers. The Highest Power.

This is the sort of thing we have to go through, so our head is straight when we read Scripture, and so that we're using the words as they were revealed...in the pictographic language that revealed them. The letters are different, and are actually whole words as well as phonetic pictographs. The lettering systems in Hebrew changed several times since the text was originally written. The ancient sounds are only knowable by inference. Even the verb tenses of Hebrew have changed. Ancient Hebrew was a concrete language that has two verb tenses: perfect (meaning an action is completed), and imperfect, meaning the action is imcomplete, or was not completed, or has yet to happen.

MODERN Hebrew is rooted in the timestream and has verb tenses that relate to time, like Western languages. But ancient Hebrew does not. This isn't trivial, because it means that even a fluent modern native speaker of modern Hebrew does not comprehend the verbs of ancient Hebrew - modern Hebrew is a western language, and it doesn't "think that way" anymore.

But to understand Scripture, especially Genesis when it deals with things otherwise unseen, we MUST read the verb tenses carefully and accurately. Otherwise we will assert that things were DONE that in fact were not yet (and perhaps still are not yet) completed.

There's a lot to keep track of, and when you keep track of all of it, the text is much clearer and less mysterious. But it differently says something different from the traditional understanding.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-07-28   15:16:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: Vicomte13 (#31)

Thanks for the pings. I'm following. Much like our earlier threads.

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.---John 1:17

redleghunter  posted on  2015-07-29   0:20:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: redleghunter (#32)

Yes, it is like the earlier threads. Except that we'll move pretty rapidly through it. In those other threads, I was propounding an analysis that none had heard before: pictographic meanings, words as sentences. I was savoring each word, as much to demonstrate the validity of the method and the deep insight into the miracle of scripture as to move forward conveying content.

But here, it's all about content. Because God gave the whole economic law in his direct quotes, using his words alone acts as a winnowing function that essentially focuses on about 8% of the words of the Bible. The other 92% are ABOUT what he said, but not him speaking. And within that 8-10% that is him speaking, he repeats himself over and over again. Virtually all of what God saids in the Prophets is a constant warning to generation after generation to stop violating only two or three laws: regarding idolatry (which is likened to adultery) and proper treatment of the poor.

One of the things that will develop over time with the thudding repetition of the same thing, by God, over and over again, is that by writing this out and taking the "God meant EXACTLY what he said approach" there's no cherry picking going on. Quite the opposite! God focuses and pounds on a few things, and one of them is proper economics. About half of what Jesus says is directly economic, and most of the other half relates to economic or has important economic effects.

So, whereas before I focused on the words early in Genesis to demonstrate the cosmology itself, here, I'm taking the detour only to show that the technique and approach here are reliable.

There are certain words that cannot be used the way they are in English if one really wants to understand what God said.

When it comes to creation itself, before the second day "heavens" and "earth" do not mean "sky" and "land". They mean something else, something that is not fully spelled out, a chaos a confusion, a disorder, a jumble of elements.

"Light" doesn't really mean "light" - or rather, it doesn't SIMPLY mean light. It means order, law. Of course, to overcome entropy (chaos) and establish order, energy must be applied. Light is energy, and the WORD we translate as "light" is literally "or" - the Hebrew root of "order", which is a Hebrew word. So, at root, "light" is really not just "light", it is the energic ordering principle.

The verb tenses matter too. On the First Day, God did not say "Let there be light", and light was created. No. What God said was "Or will begin to exist" - Or being order, and the energy necessary to make that happen - which energy partly manifests itself on the visible spectrum which we call "light".

Later, when God defines "day" - Yom - as the period of light - we must understand that this is a dual sense: it is really the period of order and organizing under the emprise of energy, which is visibly expressed by physical light as well as other energy. The physics of Genesis is far, far more complicated than the rudimentary 17th Century pre-scientific English standard translations.

Unfortunately, the high physics is actually IN the text that God inspired, but the English language that translated it and established the traditions are all from a pre-scientific age; so, to actually say what the text really SAYS requires a whole lot of words and concepts that depart, and greatly add to, the traditional, poetic, austere translation. This, then, makes traditionalists suspicious that things are being "added". In truth, that's not the case. In truth, these things were always there, right in the Hebrew and its pictographs. The men of the 17th Century were ignorant - literate, but ignorant of physics. Physics had not yet been invented, nor geology. They had no sense that there was an ordered physical world that was described in deep chemical detail in the words and pictographs of Genesis, so they rendered the Hebrew in poetic jacobean English, which is fine, except that the Hebrew says a great deal more than that.

It is hard for people who are on the borderline of making an idol out of their linguistic tradition to accept that the traditional translation in fact left vast amounts of information OUT, that it is incomplete, inadequate and inaccurate - that the traditional words, long loved, actually cut away major concepts in the text, and operate at a very surface level. Essentially, the traditional "King James" English, and all of the translations that follow from it (which is everything), is poetic in meter, but it is Genesis drawn with crayons: most of the meaning is left on the page, there was no knowledge in anybody living that the Hebrew letters were originally pictographs, what the pictographs MEANT, or that each word was a sentence. Thus, that first word rendered "In the Beginning", actually is itself a SENTENCE that speaks of the godhead itself BEFORE the beginning of time. Literally NOBODY knew that, or could know it without a revelation, which nobody got. And of course traditional Jews would FIERCELY resist that such meaning is there, because it nullifies the very basis of their religion using the first word of the Torah itself!

But Jews didn't know the Paleo-Hebrew pictographs until the late 20th Century either. All of that knowledge was lost. It was the Qumran caves and other inscriptions that allowed us to recapture it, and in so doing, to see the Scriptures, especially Genesis, which is crucial to everything - as it was originally written.

Yes, it has been transmitted very well, BUT without the pictographic sentences, more than half of the meaning is lost. The {PRECISIONS that God put into the text to make it clear what he meant when primitive Hebrew was not up to the task (how does one describe "energy" and "entropy" and "ordering principles" with precise accuracy using the non-literary patois of early Bronze Age bedouins and escaped slaves? How does one write out the quantum physics using the equivalent of Ebonics?

Man cannot. But God did. It's detailed and nuanced, but to really SEE it, you have to engage all of the tools God used, and those were word, sound AND picture, AND arrangement on the page (for that language had no punctuation at all - so the physical spacing of things matters. In fact, the physical spacing into "words" in fact is the spacing into SENTENCES of pictographs, and the pictographs then in turn spell out an overlaying word. So meaning is conveyed on two levels: the phonetic word AND the pictographic sentence. And what is more, each pictograph is ITSELF composed of phonemes which, pictographically displayed, themselves carry meaning that supplements the two layers of overlying meaning. When I say that Genesis is a fractal, I mean it. No natural language could accidentally evolve this way - the sheer complexity of it proves divine authorship - especially when one considers that there does not exist one other thing written in Hebrew, no literary work, nothing but basic naming inscriptions, for a half millennium after the Torah. The Torah literally sprung forth whole, like Athena out of the head of Zeus. And that is impossible. it's a miracle.

And that's leaving aside some of the embedded things in the Torah, some of the sequences of letters and words in it.

Before, I was revealing in the wonder of it all. Here, I have a sharper, sterner purpose. God's economics, exposed word by word, are going to be very unpopular. The assertion has often been made the God demands only voluntary charity when it comes to money. This is completely false. In fact, it is literally the diametric opposite of every single thing God says about money in the Torah and the Old Testament, and in most of the New Testament.

Satan has gotten into the woodpile, and tempted men by their love of money, and I have to use Scripture to drive him out and drive him off. I have to wield God's direct words to do it, and as I do, the people I am exorcising will be attacking me, hitting, spitting and hissing, as all do who have demons and do not want to let them go.

I know it. I've experienced it often. There is strong, set, theologically backed argument for individual greed that God's Economics completely overthrows. But in the process of revealing it, I am going to be put through Hell by people who COULD know better if they would just READ THE TEXT and stop twisting and turning, shucking and jiving to justify holding onto "their" money. I know it's coming because I've seen it so many times before. Indeed, the very REASON I am writing about economics in this particular way is to physically pick up everybody who argues Satan's argument and hurl him into the ground and silence him with authority, the Authority of the direct words of God, against which there is no resistance.

So, I am going to war with demons and men by taking on this subject, and I know it. Therefore, what I am doing by delving a bit into Genesis is establishing the authority of the words, the incredible complexity of it. I am also establishing my authority to speak the words of God directly as God said them, with their full meaning.

I know that this will bring joy to those who know that modern secular godless evolution is false but who don't realize how much is revealed in Genesis, in Scripture. I know the delight that comes from seeing these things for the first time.

And I know that such delight strengthens men's faith in the reliability of the Scripture, and also in my reliability as guide through them.

And having established that, when I tell them what God says about their MONEY, I know that they will be forced into a terrible dilemma. For if the Scripture is so accurate regarding physical creation itself, and if the words as conveyed are so precise, and if the same man - me - is conveying the words regarding money using the same technique, where does a man who does not want to obey God regarding money have to go?

I know that the demons will hiss and spit anyway, but the body slam of irresistible argument is what I am looking for - men will fight me and hate - but they will know deep down that they are wrong. And that doubt will grow on them. And then when the cruel secular economy throws them down and takes their wealth - which usually happens to all people when they age and enter into serious late-life illnesses - then when they suddenly find that they really do need the financial charity of other men, as almost all men do in their old age, they will realize that they were ENTITLED TO IT all along, by commandment of God, repeated seven thousand times in the Scripture.

They will recall having fought against that very thing, and they will recall having hissed and attacked God's messenger who tried to teach it to them. And they will repent and be changed.

Most will require the cancer or the severe illness of a loved one to do it, but I am laying the intellectual groundwork so that when the time comes they will already know the right answer and go to it.

But if I just focused on economics, I'd get the fight from the beginning. And I don't love men enough to fight with them endlessly.

So, what I am doing with Genesis is establishing the authority of the text, of God. And I'm also establishing my authority, from God, to tell this tale. That will make the exorcisms a little bit easier on ME when we get more into God's attitude about money (which is: it's all his, and he directs men not to store it up but to use it to alleviate the suffering of their brothers and sisters, and promises that if men do that, that he himself will provide abundant favors, and the actually overall NEED will go down - if men are generous, they will help, and the NEED for the help will diminish. But if men cling to money and justify sins such as demanding interest, or refusing to forgive debts, they defy God and steal his money, and they will answer for it. Remember: Jesus said that men would be thrown into hell by the masses for not having been charitable. Obeying God on money is no different, at all, from obeying God on sexual mores or following Jesus or idolatry or murder.)

You see men trying to work out how to justify ignoring God on sexual matters and still feel good about themselves in the current "reinterpretations" regarding God's law of sex.

The same evil approach was used to make the arguments made that "charity is purely voluntary" when it comes to spending one's money. That is as true as "not murdering is voluntary". Yes, you CAN murder, or you CAN choose to not perform your duties as stewards (not owners) of God's property, but the consequences of killing and disregarding God's commands regarding money are the same: death and judgment. So really it's not voluntary at all, beyond simply choosing to sin.

It's a sin to fornicate. It's a sin to kill. And it's a sin to steal God's money and not use it as he commanded, for man is but a steward, never an owner.

The purpose of this thread is to convey that, using God's direct words, so clearly that SOME men will be forced to bend the knee and bow the head to God - and then to use that conversion as the basis to form actual economic alliances among us just as we form alliances for support.

The world is falling apart, and the only way to thrive is to step out of the death spiral and follow God - and that means supporting each other. But how can holy men of God yoke themselves to greedy fools who follow Satan regarding money? They can't. But they can give God's words plain, and hope that SOME hearken to them and follow.

That is what I am doing on this thread. Going into Genesis is a tactic to gain interest and establish bona fides. It is not an end in itself as it was on that other thread.

There, it was a matter of wonder. Here, the wonder is put to the purpose of establishing authority, so that when the inevitable hard words that men do not want to obey are said, there is no choice but to either knuckle under or to admit - if only to one's self - that one chooses to rebel against God and walk away from him, because one trusts in money more than God.

God's worse force the choice. But if the depth and accuracy of the exposition of the words is not established beforehand, men will make for themselves the excuse that what is being presented to them is a "twisting of Scripture". By presenting Genesis, the bona fides are established and it gets very hard to be able to do that convincingly, even to one's self, when the whip means the back of the money changer later on.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-07-29   1:44:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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