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Title: Amazon reviewers have a lot to say about the company’s Confederate flag merchandise
Source: Quartz
URL Source: http://qz.com/434639/amazon-reviewe ... -confederate-flag-merchandise/
Published: Jun 23, 2015
Author: Lily Kuo
Post Date: 2015-06-23 12:32:50 by Willie Green
Keywords: None
Views: 9491
Comments: 60

US retailers like Walmart, Kmart and Sears have pledged to stop selling Confederate flags and related paraphernalia, but major e-commerce platforms like Amazon and eBay have yet to pull products bearing the emblem.

A church shooting in Charleston, South Carolina that left nine black Americans dead has prompted a wave of protests over the presence of the flag, especially in the south where it is considered a symbol of southern pride for some and a potent reminder of the racism inherent in the region’s history for others.

South Carolina has said it will take the red banner with a blue X and stars down from its state capitol building. Lawmakers and protesters are calling for similar measures in other states.

Amazon and eBay, though, have remained silent on the issue. Neither company responded to e-mailed questions from Quartz about whether they will join the ban.

A search for “Confederate flag” on Amazon yields over 30,000 results—including bikinis, electronics, and home decor decorated with the flag. There’s a Confederate flag “mink” bedspread, antique-look flag iPhone covers, and even elaborate lampshades.

A search on eBay pulls up over 1,600 listings.

While these companies remain mum, Amazon customers have taken to the platform’s question and answer sections to express their thoughts. Regarding a polyester “Confederate Rebel Flag” sold by Rhode Island Novelty for $5.05, shoppers recently asked:

(Amazon)

Some previous patrons of Rhode Island Novelty’s Confederate flags offered helpful answers:

(Amazon)

Others told the reviewers to shut up.

(Amazon) (Amazon)


Poster Comment:

Confederate bigotry & racism is bad for business.(5 images)

Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread  


TopPage UpFull ThreadPage DownBottom/Latest

#1. To: Willie Green (#0)

There is no end to the ignorance in this country,and it is purposeful. People tend to believe for life what they are taught as children,and children in this country have been taught lies about slavery and the Confederacy since the 1860's.

The teachers teaching it believe this nonsense,too. All they know is what they have been taught,and teaching is where students go who lack the ability to do anything else.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-06-23   12:59:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Willie Green (#0)

When blacks riot and kill whites, can we call for statues of Martin Luther King to be torn down?

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-23   13:59:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Willie Green (#0) (Edited)

Some hot items:




cranko  posted on  2015-06-23   14:06:27 ET  (4 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: misterwhite, Willie Green (#2)

" When blacks riot and kill whites, can we call for statues of Martin Luther King to be torn down? "

Damn good question! I anxiously await to see what reply, if any, that you get!

Tic, toc, tic, toc

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Stoner  posted on  2015-06-23   14:17:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: sneakypete (#1)

People tend to believe for life what they are taught as children,and children in this country have been taught lies about slavery and the Confederacy since the 1860's.

The all-time greatest debunking of the Lincoln myth was written by black author, Lerone Bennett, Jr., for a half-century an editor at Ebony magazine. His book, Forced Into Glory, Abraham Lincoln's White Dream, was published in 2000.

nolu chan  posted on  2015-06-23   14:29:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: misterwhite, Willie Green (#2)

When blacks riot and kill whites, can we call for statues of Martin Luther King to be torn down?

If a black person were to burn a U.S. flag as his perceived symbol of slavery and oppression, would that provide cause to take down the U.S. flag from the White House?

http://therightscoop.com/black-activists-making-kids-burn-american-flags-in-mckinney-texas/

Black activists making kids burn American flags in McKinney, Texas

Posted by soopermexican on Jun 8, 2015 at 9:54 PM

Well the protest industry is out in full force in McKinney, Texas, and they will make sure the arrests are portrayed as racially-motivated no matter what the truth of the matter is. And to show just how classy they are, they are reportedly burning American flags:

[image at link]

nolu chan  posted on  2015-06-23   14:43:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: cranko, Willie Green, All (#3)

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-06-23   14:44:58 ET  (3 images) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Stoner (#4)

" When blacks riot and kill whites, can we call for statues of Martin Luther King to be torn down? "

Damn good question! I anxiously await to see what reply, if any, that you get!

There would be a demand to erect new statues. King was one of the greatest leftist revolutionary organizers in Americal history and has universal support in the left, from universal salesmanship, academia, government, and the media. His persona is the result of an ongoing propaganda campaign from which there is no hiding and no disagreement with it is allowed.

rlk  posted on  2015-06-23   15:09:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: rlk, ALL (#8)

As part of a compromise in 2000, lawmakers agreed to remove the Confederate flag from the top of the Capitol dome and place it across the street while also adding a monument to African- Americans. But the legislation mandated that only a supermajority of the legislature could change that set-up going forward.

And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6

GarySpFC  posted on  2015-06-23   15:10:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: sneakypete (#1)

The teachers teaching it believe this nonsense,too. All they know is what they have been taught,and teaching is where students go who lack the ability to do anything else.

That's why it's important to establish national education standards in math, science and history.... To expunge these ignorant, outmoded and objectionable views from mainstream society. The rebellious Confederacy was a disgraceful blemish on our nation's history and should never be cast in a favorable light.

Some people march to a different drummer - and some people POLKA.

Willie Green  posted on  2015-06-23   16:00:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: sneakypete (#1)

There is no end to the ignorance in this country,and it is purposeful.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-06-23   16:27:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: nolu chan (#5)

The all-time greatest debunking of the Lincoln myth was written by black author, Lerone Bennett, Jr., for a half-century an editor at Ebony magazine. His book, Forced Into Glory, Abraham Lincoln's White Dream, was published in 2000.

Thanks for the tip. I had never heard of that book.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-06-23   18:50:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Willie Green (#10)

The rebellious Confederacy was a disgraceful blemish on our nation's history and should never be cast in a favorable light.

You are full of crap on this one,Willie. The states had a LEGAL RIGHT to secede from a VOLUNTARY union. In fact,there were pre-existing conditions that had to be met before they would all agree to join together.

It was the SOUTH that was objecting to changes made in the charter they had all agreed to that was the victim here.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-06-23   18:56:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: A K A Stone (#11)

Does that mean that Sanders is more of a leftist than the globalist Republicans that joined with Clinton to send all of our manufacturing overseas?

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-06-23   18:57:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Willie Green (#0)

Confederate bigotry & racism is bad for busin

You know the north was just as bad as the south. So when you point fingers turn one on yourself!

White flight started up north. You know the big cities doughnut! Black peoples in the middle and whitey outside!

Justified  posted on  2015-06-23   19:33:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: sneakypete (#13)

You are the one who is full of crap, pete. I really don't give a rat's ass whether the southern states had the right to secede or not... in fact, I would've been happy to get rid of the ignorant racists & bigots...
Lincoln was wrong... he should've booted them out of the Union on their good-for-nothing lazy butts.

Willie Green  posted on  2015-06-23   19:42:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Justified (#15)

So when you point fingers turn one on yourself!

Speak for yourself.... my ancestors didn't immigrate here until 20~30 years after the Civil War was over. We had nothing to do with it.

Willie Green  posted on  2015-06-23   19:46:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Willie Green (#17)

I had family from both sides of the line. Both were here before there was a USA!

So you a johnny come lately who believes anything that makes you feel good. Yes you need to need to point the finger at yourself. Your bigotry is no different than anyone else's!

Justified  posted on  2015-06-23   19:53:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: Willie Green (#16)

I really don't give a rat's ass whether the southern states had the right to secede or not...

Then you just admitted you don't care about right or wrong.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-06-23   19:54:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: sneakypete (#19)

Wrong pete.... Human rights have a higher priority than states rights.
The Confederacy deserved to be crushed because it was evil, regardless of whatever "rights" the states had.

Willie Green  posted on  2015-06-24   2:50:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: misterwhite (#2)

When blacks riot and kill whites, can we call for statues of Martin Luther King to be torn down?

no ;because that isn't what MLK stood for . Now the Confederate flag ;the flag of treason and rebellion against the United States should be removed from State Capitols. However ;we are not the Taliban or the Islamic State . We don't destroy history or heritage regradless of how unpleasant and misguided and evil it was . We should instead never forget what the true reason of the rebellion was about ....slavery .

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

tomder55  posted on  2015-06-24   7:59:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: tomder55 (#21)

the flag of treason

Who was charged with treason?

What article of the constitution did they commit treason against?

Treason is the 14th amendment.

Saying it is the flag of treason makes you sound like a moron. Just saying.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-06-24   8:01:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Willie Green (#20)

Wrong pete.... Human rights have a higher priority than states rights.

Then why do you democrats put babies in commercial blenders.

If you support abortion you should be put to death. :)

Someone that complains about a flag then votes for murderers of children, should themselves suffer the same fate that they wish on the children that are cut to pieces.

That would include you Willie if you support abortion, Supporting abortion is voting for people who support abortion too. :)

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-06-24   8:03:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: A K A Stone (#22) (Edited)

Treason is the 14th amendment.

How could an amendment to the constitution be treason when the amendment becomes the constitutional law of the land ? By all means try to amend it if you don't like it . Also ;because SCOTUS has seriously misinterpreted the amendment doesn't mean the amendment is wrong. Codifying the rights of the newly-freed former slaves had to be done .

Who was charged with treason?

Yes the post-war United States had an overwhelming record of leniency concerning treason. They wanted to reunite the nation . They considered that more important than punishment .The traitor Jefferson Davis was not even tried for the crime.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

tomder55  posted on  2015-06-24   8:21:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: All (#24)

Union Gen. George Thomas said in 1868; “The crime of treason might be covered with a counterfeit varnish of patriotism, so that the precipitators of the rebellion might go down in history hand-in-hand with the defenders of the (US) Government.” That appears to have come to pass.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

tomder55  posted on  2015-06-24   8:26:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: All (#24) (Edited)

Who was charged with treason?

We should also not forget the terms of the surrender at Appomattox . Grant allowed them to return to their homes "not to be disturbed by United States authority so long as they observe their paroles and the laws in force where they may reside." However ; Confederates like Nathan Bedford Forrest who led a post-war terrorist campaign and later was instrumental in the formation of the KKK should've been brought up on charges.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

tomder55  posted on  2015-06-24   8:35:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Willie Green (#20)

Wrong pete.... Human rights have a higher priority than states rights.

Hurt feelings are not a human rights issue, Willie.

It's a character flaw caused by weakness. Suck it up and toughen up. If looking at a 5X8 flag waving on a pole makes you crumble, then you should just end it all...

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-06-24   9:10:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Willie Green (#20)

Penn State deserved to be crushed because it was evil, regardless of whatever it's alumni have to say.

Fixed.

Vinny  posted on  2015-06-24   9:20:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Vinny (#28)

Gee Vinny, I didn't know that you've been stalking me..... Are you a homo or something?

Willie Green  posted on  2015-06-24   9:44:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: A K A Stone (#23)

" why do you democrats put babies in commercial blenders.

If you support abortion you should be put to death. :)

Someone that complains about a flag then votes for murderers of children, should themselves suffer the same fate that they wish on the children that are cut to pieces.

That would include you Willie if you support abortion, Supporting abortion is voting for people who support abortion too. "

Have to agree Stone. Too many sweep thoughts of abortion under the rug, because it conflicts with their other beliefs / loyalty's.

I knew a guy, a self proclaimed "lay preacher", that claimed he was a "yellow dog" democrat, and also claimed to be a washed in the blood of Christ Christian. I told him that the two positions were incompatible, and that I would not insult yellow dogs by associating them with democrats. He got quite upset about that. I asked him how he, on Judgement Day would explain to God that he had belonged to, supported, and voted for a party that had promoted the murder of millions of innocent babies? He had no answer.

Apparently he placed a higher value on his loyalty to the demoncrap party, than to his purported Christian values

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Stoner  posted on  2015-06-24   10:58:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: tomder55 (#21)

"Now the Confederate flag ;the flag of treason and rebellion against the United States"

Didn't the South call it the War of Secession? Didn't Southern states have the 10th amendment power to secede? I see nothing treasonous about it. There are many on this forum today calling for states to secede.

"The revolutionary right of secession is based on the Declaration of Independence and the philosophy of Thomas Jefferson and John Locke, that:

whenever any form of government becomes destructive of the ends for which it was established, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government ..."

---------------------------------

Lincoln wanted to stop the states from seceding and preserve the Union. He didn't give a FF about slavery.

"Lincoln replied in an open letter to Greeley. In the letter, Lincoln emphasized his primary goal: “I would save the Union. … If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it; and if could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it."

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-24   11:07:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: A K A Stone (#22)

"Treason is the 14th amendment."

I wholeheartedly agree.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-24   11:08:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: Willie Green (#0)

Hmmm. What do Amazon reviewers say about Amazon's Che t-shirts? Castro t-shirts? Mao t-shirts? Even "I (heart) Pol Pot" t-shirts?

Bunch of f**king hypocrites.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-24   11:22:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Willie Green (#29)

Gee Vinny, I didn't know that you've been stalking me..... Are you a homo or something?

Not at all Willie, just tossing some of your hate back into your lap.

Vinny  posted on  2015-06-24   11:23:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: Vinny (#34)

You're sadly uninformed, Vinny...
I hold JoeBoTs almost in as much contempt as I do BushBots...

Willie Green  posted on  2015-06-24   11:36:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: tomder55 (#24)

How could an amendment to the constitution be treason

Because the South was deprived of their equal suffrage in the Senate after already passing the 13th amendment. At the point of a gun.

Puppets.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-06-24   12:29:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Willie Green (#35)

I hold JoeBoTs almost in as much contempt as I do BushBots..

The Penn St scandal isn't about Paterno alone, it is about university-wide pedophilia ring that no doubt still exists. The stain on your degree is far worse than anything you can toss on the confederate flag.

Vinny  posted on  2015-06-24   12:37:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: A K A Stone (#36) (Edited)

sucks losing the war. It was ratified by the required three-fourths of the states . You do recall that the Southern States had seceeded . Passing those amendments was a small price to pay for re- admission. Without the 13th and 14th Amendments we would've gone back to status quo antebellum.

My problem with the amendment has been the interpretation of it by activist courts .

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

tomder55  posted on  2015-06-24   13:04:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Vinny (#37)

Well Vinny, as a PSU alumnus, I can always take comfort in the knowledge that you don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about... just like every other topic that you bellow and bloviate about.

Willie Green  posted on  2015-06-24   13:40:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: Willie Green (#20)

Wrong pete.... Human rights have a higher priority than states rights.

A contradiction in terms because it is states that enforce state laws.

The Confederacy deserved to be crushed because it was evil, regardless of whatever "rights" the states had.

I'm sorry to see you write that. I had thought you had enough of an open mind to dismiss the dogma you were taught as a child,and to reason for yourself.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-06-24   14:47:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: tomder55 (#21) (Edited)

We should instead never forget what the true reason of the rebellion was about ....

Correct,but first you have to learn what it was all about before you can forget it.

It wasn't about slavery because there were slaves being kept in the north right up until after the war ended. No less personage than the General of the Union Army U.S.Grant owned slaves and didn't free them until after the war and slavery officially ended.

Or maybe you think Grant led a army against his own family?

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-06-24   14:50:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: tomder55 (#24) (Edited)

Yes the post-war United States had an overwhelming record of leniency concerning treason. They wanted to reunite the nation . They considered that more important than punishment .

HorseHillary! What they wanted to do was stabalize the situation quickly so they could swoop in with the yankee appointed judges,sheriffs,congressmen,and senators to steal all the real property they could lay their hands on for back taxes at courthouse sales where only they knew were taking place so nobody else could bid.

The War of Northern Aggression and Reconstruction were about nothing at all other than grand theft on an epic level,and a federal power grab to make the states the slaves on the federal government instead of the states being the masters of the federal government.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-06-24   14:53:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: tomder55 (#26)

We should also not forget the terms of the surrender at Appomattox . Grant allowed them to return to their homes "not to be disturbed by United States authority so long as they observe their paroles and the laws in force where they may reside." However ; Confederates like Nathan Bedford Forrest who led a post-war terrorist campaign and later was instrumental in the formation of the KKK should've been brought up on charges.

Is that you,Al Sharpton?

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-06-24   14:56:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: misterwhite, tomder55 (#31)

Didn't the South call it the War of Secession?

Yes.

Didn't Southern states have the 10th amendment power to secede?

Yes,again.

Don't expect people with kneejerk leftist educations to aggree with anything not PC,though. It would make their heads explode.

Even a casual look on the face of it would tell anyone with 2 IQ points to rub together than anyone that enters a VOLUNTARY union also has the right to leave that union. There were conditions established to get the states to agree to enter the union,and one was that if the government violated any of those conditions they had a right to secede.

Even the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court advised Lincoln he had no legal right to prevent the south from seceding,and Linon's response was to threaten to send US Marshals to lock up the Chief Justice and the entire SC in a military prison until the "end of the emergency" if they published such a decision.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-06-24   15:03:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: Willie Green (#39)

Well Vinny, as a PSU alumnus, I can always take comfort in the knowledge that you don't have the slightest idea what you're talking about... just like every other topic that you bellow and bloviate about.

Sure Willie....everyone knows pedophile rings are limited to two people. And who doesn't think it's normal that Sandusky began his child molestation in 1998, when he was in his early 50s. Sorry pal, PSU harbored a ring of child molesters (see the BOT & 2nd Mile) and does so to this day. Your degree is useless and if I were you I wouldn't wear PSU gear out in public. You might as well be advertising for Charlie Manson University.

Vinny  posted on  2015-06-24   15:08:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: Vinny (#45)

Sandusky was a lone wolf, Vinny...
But Paterno should've gotten the axe regardless of the Sandusky affair.
Actually, it would've been better if he retired after the '94 season and handed the program over to Fran Ganter. Instead, he embarked on a vain era of fundraising & legacy building while surrounding himself with decrepit old cronies and nepotism.
But I have no sympathy for the 3 Stooges (Curley, Schultz & Spanier) who were indicted for perjury and obstruction. I don't know to what extent (if any) that Paterno himself was involved, but it's clear that McQueary told them more about Sandusky than they were willing to admit to the Grand Jury, so the Stooges can rot in prison too, as far as I'm concerned.

And they can take the stinking Statue and melt it for scrap, for all I care. The football field is no place for an old coot who's trying to pretend that he's never gonna croak someday.

Willie Green  posted on  2015-06-24   16:19:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: Willie Green, sneakypete (#16)

I would've been happy to get rid of the ignorant racists & bigots...

What makes you elevate the North to sainthood? The Underground Railroad did not end there for a reason.

SOURCE: Population of the United States in 1860; Compiled from the Original Returns of the Eighth Census, under the Directgion of the Secretary of the Interior, by Joseph C. G. Kennedy, Superintendant of Census, Washington, Government Printing Office, 1864.

At vii:

Looking cursorily over the returns, it appears that the fifteen slaveholding States contain 12,240,000 inhabitants, of whom 8,039,000 are whites, 251,000 free colored persons, and 3,950,000 are slaves. The actua1 gain of the whole population in those States, from 1850 to 1860, was 2,627,000, equal to 27.33 per cent. The slaves advanced in numbers 749,931, or 23.44 per cent. This does not include the slaves of the District of Columbia, who decreased 502 in the course of the ten years. By a law of April 16, 1862, slavery has been abolished in the District of Columbia, the owners of slaves having been compensated out of the public treasury. The nineteen free States and seven Territories, together with the federal District, contained, according to the Eighth Census, 19,203,008 persons, of whom 18,920,771 were white, 237,283 free colored, and 41,725 civilized Indians.

It is historical fact that there were more free Blacks in the slave states than in the free states.

At xv:

MANUMISSION OF SLAVES.

With regard to manumission, it appears from the returns that during the census year, they numbered a little more than 3,000, being more than double the number who were liberated in 1850, or at the rate of one each to 1,388; whereas, during 1850, the manumissions were as one to every 2,181 slaves. Great irregularity, as might naturally be expected, appears to exist for the two periods whereof we have returns on this subject. By the Eighth Census, it appears that manumissions have greatly increased in number in Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Maryland, Mississippi, North Carolina, and Tennessee, while they have decreased in Delaware and Florida, and varied but little in Kentucky, Missouri, South Carolina, and Virginia, and other slaveholding States not mentioned.

SOURCE: Preliminary Report on the Eigth Census 1860, by Jos. C. G. Kennedy, Superintendant, Washington, Government Printing Office, 1862.

Preliminary Report on the Eighth Census.
Census Office, Department of the Interior,
Washington, May 20, 1862.

At 6:

Thus, in Boston during the five years ending with 1859, the city registrar observes: "The number of colored births was one less than the number of marriages, and the deaths exceeded the births in the proportion of nearly two to one." In Providence, where a very correct registry has been in operation under the superintendence of Dr. Snow, the deaths are one in twenty-four of the colored; and in Philadelphia during the last six months of the census year, the new city registration gives 148 births against 306 deaths among the free colored.

[...]

Owing, among other causes, to the extremes of climate in the more northern States, and in other States to expulsive enactments of the legislatures, the free colored show a decrease of numbers during the past ten years according to the census, in the following ten States: Arkansas, Florida, Indiana, Maine, Missis­sippi, New Hampshire, New York, Oregon, Texas, and Vermont.

"Gradual emancipation," a Northern euphemism, obviously did not result in hordes of free blacks in the North. It provided an economic impetus to sell to the South and create a lily white North.

Cast into life where slavery was already widely spread and deeply seated, he [Henry Clay] did not perceive, as I think no wise man has perceived, how it could be at once eradicated, without producing a greater evil, even to the cause of human liberty itself.

Abraham Lincoln, Eulogy on Henry Clay, September 15, 1858, CW 2:130.

Whatever could it have been that threatened a greater evil than slavery?

Lincoln's very Northern idea of a lily white America.

I HAVE A WHITE DREAM
by Abraham Lincoln, nolu chan editor

CW = The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln by Roy P. Basler

Now irrespective of the moral aspect of this question as to whether there is a right or wrong in enslaving a negro, I am still in favor of our new Territories being in such a condition that white men may find a home---may find some spot where they can better their condition---where they can settle upon new soil and better their condition in life. [Great and continued cheering.] I am in favor of this not merely, (I must say it here as I have elsewhere,) for our own people who are born amongst us, but as an outlet for free white people everywhere, the world over---in which Hans and Baptiste and Patrick, and all other men from all the world, may find new homes and better their conditions in life."

-- Lincoln, October 15, 1858, Alton, Illinois, CW 3:312

When we shall get Mexico, I don't know whether the Judge will be in favor of the Mexican people that we get with it settling that question for themselves and all others; because we know the Judge has a great horror for mongrels, [laughter,] and I understand that the people of Mexico are most decidedly a race of mongrels.

-- Lincoln, October 7, 1858, Galesburg, Illinois, CW 3:235

Resolved, That the elective franchise should be kept pure from contamination by the admission of colored votes.

-- That got Lincoln's vote, January 5, 1836.

In our greedy chase to make profit of the Negro, let us beware, lest we 'cancel and tear to pieces' even the white man's charter of freedom" [the Declaration of Independence]

Lincoln, October 16, 1854, Peoria, Illinois, CW 2:276

Thenceforward, for sixty-one years, and until in 1848, the last scrap of this territory came into the Union as the State of Wisconsin, all parties acted in quiet obedience to this ordinance. It is now what Jefferson foresaw and intended---the happy home of teeming millions of free, white, prosperous people, and no slave amongst them."

Lincoln, October 16, 1854, Peoria, Illinois, CW 2:249

Whether slavery shall go into Nebraska, or other new territories, is not a matter of exclusive concern to the people who may go there. The whole nation is interested that the best use shall be made of these territories. We want them for the homes of free white people.

Lincoln, October 16, 1854, Peoria, Illinois, CW 2:268

Have we no interest in the free Territories of the United States---that they should be kept open for the homes of free white people?

Lincoln, August 27, 1856, Kalamazoo, Michigan, CW 2:363

Sustain these men and negro equality will be abundant, as every white laborer will have occasion to regret when he is elbowed from his plow or his anvil by slave n------.

Lincoln, August 31, 1858, Carlinville, Illinois, CW 3:78 [Lincoln uses the N-word without elision]

Is it not rather our duty [as White men] to make labor more respectable by preventing all black competition, especially in the territories?

Lincoln, August 31, 1858, Carlinville, Illinois, CW 3:79

nolu chan  posted on  2015-06-24   20:45:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: nolu chan (#47)

As has been noted often before,it is the victors that write the history books,and they have a tendency to make themselves look virtuous and victorious,while making the defeated look like monsters and losers.

It's just the nature of things.

That doesn't excuse people in the modern day from discovering the truth,though. While it may have been very hard to discover facts decades ago,it is very easy to do so now and there is no excuse for not trying if you are interested in the truth.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-06-24   21:45:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: sneakypete, misterwhite (#44)

Didn't Southern states have the 10th amendment power to secede?

Yes,again.

Thankfully you used the words 'state power' instead of that silly concept of 'states rights' People have rights ,states have powers which are only good if enforceable . Secession would've only been peaceful if all the states of the union had agreed to the secession. SCOTUS later determined in Texas v White that there is no such power and that the secession of the southern states was an illegal act ;a rebellion.

The best quote on this can be found in US Grants Autobiography.

"Doubtless the founders of our government, the majority of them at least, regarded the confederation of the colonies as an experiment. Each colony considered itself a separate government; that the confederation was for mutual protection against a foreign foe, and the prevention of strife and war among themselves. If there had been a desire on the part of any single State to withdraw from the compact at any time while the number of States was limited to the original thirteen, I do not suppose there would have been any to contest the right, no matter how much the determination might have been regretted. The problem changed on the ratification of the Constitution by all the colonies; it changed still more when amendments were added; and if the right of any one State to withdraw continued to exist at all after the ratification of the Constitution, it certainly ceased on the formation of new States, at least so far as the new States themselves were concerned. It was never possessed at all by Florida or the States west of the Mississippi, all of which were purchased by the treasury of the entire nation. Texas and the territory brought into the Union in consequence of annexation, were purchased with both blood and treasure; and Texas, with a domain greater than that of any European state except Russia, was permitted to retain as state property all the public lands within its borders.

It would have been ingratitude and injustice of the most flagrant sort for this State to withdraw from the Union after all that had been spent and done to introduce her; yet, if separation had actually occurred, Texas must necessarily have gone with the South, both on account of her institutions and her geographical position. Secession was illogical as well as impracticable; it was revolution. Now, the right of revolution is an inherent one. When people are oppressed by their government, it is a natural right they enjoy to relieve themselves of the oppression, if they are strong enough, either by withdrawal from it, or by overthrowing it and substituting a government more acceptable. But any people or part of a people who resort to this remedy, stake their lives, their property, and every claim for protection given by citizenship--on the issue. Victory, or the conditions imposed by the conqueror--must be the result. "

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

tomder55  posted on  2015-06-25   5:56:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: tomder55 (#49)

secession of the southern states was an illegal act ;a rebellion.

One more thing. I expect answers to these questions.

Was the revolutionary war treason?

If you don't say it is I will know you as a hypocrite and not a thinker.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-06-25   8:34:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: A K A Stone (#50)

Was the revolutionary war treason?

Yes ,revolution is treason . English law in the 1351 act stated that an act of treason was 'a man do levy war against the king in his realm'.

Article III, Section 3, of the Constitution defines any person who levies war against the United States or adheres to its enemies by giving them Aid and Comfort has committed treason .

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

tomder55  posted on  2015-06-25   8:47:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: tomder55 (#51)

who levies war against the United States or adheres to its enemies by giving them Aid and Comfort has committed treason .

Did Lincoln uphold his oath of office?

It sounds like Lincoln levied war against the United States.

Lets not get into what is right or wrong. Lets just go by the text of the constitution and the law. If you do that you would clearly see that the South didn't commit any treason. Which is why none of them were charged. Which is why you have no answer to that question.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-06-25   8:58:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: tomder55 (#51)

Yes ,revolution is treason

Well at least you are somewhat consistent.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-06-25   8:58:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: tomder55 (#49)

"It would have been ingratitude and injustice of the most flagrant sort for this State to withdraw from the Union ..."

Injustice? Doesn't that describe what the North was doing to the South before the War of Secession? Wasn't it because of those injustices that the southern states decided to secede?

The southern states joined the union believing they were to be treated fairly and equally by the federal government. THAT was the pact they agree to.

The federal government is forcing states towards bankruptcies with their unfunded mandates -- everything from providing free medical care, Medicaid expansion, ADA, educating illegals, and a wide range of government programs. Since when was this part of the deal?

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-25   9:40:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: misterwhite (#54)

Injustice? Doesn't that describe what the North was doing to the South before the War of Secession?

The southern states joined the union believing they were to be treated fairly and equally by the federal government. THAT was the pact they agree to.

Grant was speaking specifically of Texas . What injustice was the North doing to the South ?

The South left over the issue of expanding slavery into the territories. I'll admit that SCOTUS gets a big hat tip by blowing the Dredd Scott decision which effectively nullified the Missouri compromise . But the issue of slavery had to be decided . The Founders punted on the issue ,and the nation stayed united because of a series of compromises . But it was inevidible that the issue would have to be settled one way or the other .

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

tomder55  posted on  2015-06-25   10:01:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: A K A Stone (#52)

Which is why none of them were charged. Which is why you have no answer to that question.

As I said ,the combatants were paroled under the terms of the Appomattox surrender . Other than that ,the North was more concerned with rebuilding the nation. If you are looking for a pragmatic reason then it would've been a collosal waste of time to charge thousands of Southerners and finding juries to convict them.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

tomder55  posted on  2015-06-25   10:15:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: tomder55 (#49)

Thankfully you used the words 'state power' instead of that silly concept of 'states rights' People have rights ,states have powers which are only good if enforceable .

States represent the people that live in them. That is the whole purpose of state governments.

Secession would've only been peaceful if all the states of the union had agreed to the secession. SCOTUS later determined in Texas v White that there is no such power and that the secession of the southern states was an illegal act ;a rebellion.

They had no authority to make any such ruling. It was nothing but a naked un-Constitutional power grab by the north. They might as well have ruled the moon is made of green cheese.

The best quote on this can be found in US Grants Autobiography.

Oh,yeah. Everybody knows that the most senior General in the Yankee army,and a slave owner himself,would be an authority on right and wrong,as well as Constiutional law.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-06-25   10:15:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: tomder55 (#56)

Then there was no treason. Thanks for being honest and admitting you were wrong.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-06-25   10:17:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: tomder55 (#55)

"What injustice was the North doing to the South?"

"Tariff of Abominations"

The South was obtaining goods from the British cheaper than goods produced by the North. So the North imposed a tariff on those goods.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-25   10:55:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: tomder55 (#55)

"The South left over the issue of expanding slavery into the territories."

Just going from memory, but wasn't that settled in some kind of a 50-50 deal?

misterwhite  posted on  2015-06-25   10:56:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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