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Status: Not Logged In; Sign In Bible Study See other Bible Study Articles Title: This is why it is so important you read the word of God, in the original Hebrew and Greek, yourself and not take what others say it says. Source: ChristianPatriot.com URL Source: [None] Published: May 14, 2015 Author: Pastor Bob Celeste for ACP Post Date: 2015-05-14 09:05:01 by BobCeleste Keywords: ACP Views: 69254 Comments: 248 This is why it is so important you read the word of God, in the original Hebrew and Greek, yourself and not take what others say it says. This is how Malachi 3:9 is represented in various interpretations. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. (KJV) With a curse ye are cursed! And Me ye are deceiving--this nation--all of it. (YLT) Ye are cursed with the curse; for ye rob me, even this whole nation. (ASV) You are cursed with a curse, For you have robbed Me, Even this whole nation. (NKJV) You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing me; the whole nation of you. (RSV) You are cursed with the curse; for you rob me, even this whole nation. (WEB) Notice how everyone of the above translations say "Ye or you are cursed with the curse" But that is not what the original Hebrew says. Here is what the original Hebrew says: Ye are cursed {'arar} with a curse {m@erah}: for ye have robbed {qaba`} me, even this whole nation {gowy}. Let's look at the Hebrew words 'arar and m@erah. 'arar is a primitive root; to execrate:--X bitterly curse m@erah is an execration:--curse. The original does not say You are cursed, it says cursed with a curse, meaning it could either be you are cursed with a curse or you cursed with a curse, in one it is God doing the cursing in the other it is it is God being cursed. God's word is to important to trust others with it, your salvation is to important, you need to take it into your own hands not rely upon the word or interpretation of others. Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Comments (1-208) not displayed.       .       .       . #209. To: SOSO (#200) Then tell me what you mean by mortal sin, or is it just a phrase, with no definition, to you? BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-19   14:12:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #210. To: BobCeleste (#209) Knock yourself out. If you have any questions pelase take them up with the Vatican. Now, please answer my question. Is it your contention that all one needs to do to be guaranteed entrance into Heaven is to be born again? потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-05-19   14:16:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #211. To: SOSO, BobCeleste, A K A Stone, TooConservative, GarySpFc (#176) Try dying in a state of mortal sin. No man, save Christ, is perfect. Jesus explained the Law as not just in physical violations but 'mental' and of the heart. Matthew 5: 21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. We see here that anger in the heart and mind is addressed with murder. Again in Matthew 5: 27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. So Jesus is telling those assembled, and us, God looks at the heart for the intents of men and women, not just what we physically do. Jesus Christ summarizes again in Matthew 15 the following: 17 Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? 18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. 19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: 20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man. So the solution is a changed heart. For any sane chemically balanced person can go through life and avoid physically murdering someone. Most men can avoid adultery. None of the above can avoid even the passing thought of anger for another or lust for another in their heart. We are all guilty of such. Again the solution is a changed heart. Which for the Christian, only God through His Grace can change: Romans 10: Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. 5 For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does those things shall live by them.” 6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down from above) 7 or, “‘Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.” “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.” (Matthew 11:28) redleghunter  posted on  2015-05-19   14:38:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #212. To: redleghunter (#211) None of the above can avoid even the passing thought of anger for another or lust for another in their heart. We are all guilty of such. Again the solution is a changed heart. Easier said than done as no change of heart will eliminate the nature of lust in human men (and women). Though we may always be able to refrain from the action we will always have to deal with the thought. We need to be aware of this and recognize the thought for what it is and reject it. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-05-19   14:49:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #213. To: SOSO (#212) Easier said than done as no change of heart will eliminate the nature of lust in human men (and women). Though we may always be able to refrain from the action we will always have to deal with the thought. We need to be aware of this and recognize the thought for what it is and reject it. As were the healings of Christ in the NT, so are hearts changed by Him. That is the meaning of repentant heart. It is a miracle and unwarranted. “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.” (Matthew 11:28) redleghunter  posted on  2015-05-19   14:56:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #214. To: redleghunter (#211) Yes, your post lists many of the key points. There are a few more, though, that I think are important. In Revelation, at the end of it all, when all has been said and done, Jesus repeats many times that men will be judged by their DEEDS - by what they DID. He gives a short list, twice, of what will get a man the Lake of Fire at Judgment. Theft is not on it. Neither is covetousness. There is some variation of terms and multiplication of concepts that we can reduce to a simple term (Adultery + "porneis" + being a "dog" + "filthy" = sexual immorality, in the terms of the day) Slaying, Lying, Sexual Immorality, Idolatry, Sorcery (in particular, the selling of drugs to induce "magical" altered states) - those will earn you the fire. But what about the rest of sins? And what about THOSE VERY SINS, even. After all, Paul was a slayer of Christians, and St. Photini (the Samaritan woman at the well) was sexually immoral - are they damned to be thrown into the Lake of Fire after the resurrection and judgment, or is there a mechanism for forgiveness? Interestingly, and authoritatively, Jesus speaks of the mechanism for forgiveness by God: forgiveness of other men. He put it into the Lord's prayer: "Forgive us our debts in the measure ("as") we forgive those in debt to us". Jesus gives a very long parable of the unforgiving servant in which he speaks of the price of unforgiveness, and the reward for forgiveness: Matthew 18:32-33 "Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33 Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ 34 In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed. This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.” Now, when combined with the story of the destination of the rich man who disregarded Lazarus and the promise to the (probably unbaptized) "good thief" of "Paradise" "this day", a texture of the afterlife is revealed - the rich man was in a dry and parched place, where there were flames, but he was not in the Lake of Fire. If I press down one road here, we could end up in quite a struggle. I'm not aiming to do that, however. Rather, I wanted to focus like a laser beam on what Jesus consistently said was the way to be forgiven sins, whatever sins: forgive other men their sins, crimes, bad acts and debts against you. Jesus establishes a principle of forgive-men-to-be-forgiven-by-God that very much fits his overall message. And that is rather different from what many preach. Jesus emphasized deeds, in his teaching and in the Revelation also. And he particularly emphasized forgiveness of others as the key to being forgiven sin. That was Jesus' perspective on it. Paul had a different perspective, one that focused on Jewish concepts of expiatory sacrifice. The two can be reconciled, in the sense that Jewish sacrifices were visible signs of forgiveness and redemption, and Jesus' personal sacrifice was the apotheosis of that model. And that's fine, symbolically, as far as it goes. But it does not, on its own, go far enough even if Paul says that it does. Paul is not God. Jesus is. And Jesus said to men that if they don't actually aid other men and forgive other men, he doesn't know them, and the father won't forgive them - whether they're baptized or not. Moreover, Jesus asks pointedly: What good does it do you to say you follow me if you don't do as I say? Jesus said we will be judged by our deeds, and that some deeds: lying and sexual immorality in particular, also idolatry and issues with unbelief, will result in a man being thrown into the Lake of Fire. And he offered only one path to be forgiven: you must forgive others their sin. And he said that calling him Lord, Lord is not enough. He doesn't know you unless you do what he say. So, if you're a baptized Christian who believes in Jesus, but you do not forgive other men their debts and sins, you will not be forgiven your sins either, and will be thrown into Gehenna after you die "until the last penny is paid", and then you may very well also be thrown into the Lake of Fire, too, for the second death. So, if you want to enter the City of God and pass final judgment you must, according to Jesus, be fathered again, of water and the Spirit, follow him, and forgive other men their debts and sins against you. And perhaps if you miss the water, you may be acceptable anyway (see: the "good thief"), but it doesn't do you any good to "believe in Jesus" if you don't forgive other men their debts and sins. For we're all sinners - liars and sexually immoral at least - and that means the fire unless we're forgiven, and the only way that Christ himself said we could be forgiven is by forgiving, and he said that it does a man no good at all - you are not saved - if you believe he is the Son of God but don't actually do what he said. You can break the law, and be forgiven, IF (and ONLY if) you forgive other men. If you're a baptized Christian who is an unforgiving prick, you are not saved and you are certainly going to Hell. Jesus Christ said so. Paul appears to say otherwise. Christ trumps Paul Vicomte13  posted on  2015-05-19   15:32:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #215. To: Vicomte13 (#214) There are a few more, though, that I think are important. In Revelation, at the end of it all, when all has been said and done, Jesus repeats many times that men will be judged by their DEEDS - by what they DID. He gives a short list, twice, of what will get a man the Lake of Fire at Judgment. Theft is not on it. Neither is covetousness. There is some variation of terms and multiplication of concepts that we can reduce to a simple term (Adultery + "porneis" + being a "dog" + "filthy" = sexual immorality, in the terms of the day) Slaying, Lying, Sexual Immorality, Idolatry, Sorcery (in particular, the selling of drugs to induce "magical" altered states) - those will earn you the fire. But what about the rest of sins? Which my point was to SOSO that the Greatest Commandment is the test of the heart. If one truly seeks the Heart of Christ by the Greatest Commandment, then the path is not the 'sinners bucket list' from Revelation. Matthew 22:36-40New King James Version (NKJV) 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” 37 Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” The above requires a change of heart. A change only God by His Grace can do. If you're a baptized Christian who is an unforgiving prick, you are not saved and you are certainly going to Hell. Jesus Christ said so. Paul appears to say otherwise. I don't see where Paul says otherwise. Paul preached repentance (Romans 10). That means turing away from our sinful lives. Paul also in 1 Corinthians 13 laid out quite nicely how love defines a Christian. A good tree bears good fruit: Luke 6: 43 “For a good tree does not bear bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. 44 For every tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they gather grapes from a bramble bush. 45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart brings forth evil. For out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks. “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.” (Matthew 11:28) redleghunter  posted on  2015-05-19   15:54:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #216. To: redleghunter (#215) A Christian lies, or gets divorced and remarried, or lusts after a woman or another man for that matter, or kills somebody. What happens to him when he dies? Vicomte13  posted on  2015-05-19   16:09:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #217. To: Vicomte13, SOSO, GarySpFc, A K A Stone (#216) A Christian lies, or gets divorced and remarried, or lusts after a woman or another man for that matter, or kills somebody. What happens to him when he dies? What happened to Peter after he denied the Messiah three times he previously proclaimed as the Son of the Most High? By God's Grace Peter was preserved. He continued and persevered...by God's Grace. He did not follow the example of Judas and end his own life. Peter had a great moment of weakness, but God knows the heart and intents of all men. God's Grace knows no limitations. His Grace is not limited to a moment in time of just conversion. He promises to sanctify and glorify us. Each day, each moment we have a Great High Priest, Jesus Christ representing us at the Throne of the Father in Heaven. This includes leaving the other 99 sheep to go out and get the one that is lost. What did Jesus say of Who convicts the world (and us) of sin and righteousness? John 16: 5 “But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ 6 But because I have said these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart. 7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. 8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged. 12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He will take of Mine and declare it to you. I believe your answer is there. “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.” (Matthew 11:28) redleghunter  posted on  2015-05-19   17:03:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #218. To: redleghunter (#217) (Edited) I believe your answer is there. Well, I believe that the answer is that the Christian who does those things (the list of deadly sins in Revelation) fails to finish the race, to use Paul's words, and is thrown into the Lake of Fire by Jesus at final judgment. Whatever Christian commits the mortal sins and is unrepentent and does not forgive others is one of those who cried "Lord, Lord!", but Jesus will say "I never knew you, depart into the fire." Vicomte13  posted on  2015-05-19   17:28:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #219. To: redleghunter, Vicomte13, GarySpFc, A K A Stone, Bob Celeste (#217) A Christian lies, or gets divorced and remarried, or lusts after a woman or another man for that matter, or kills somebody. What happens to him when he dies? What happened to Peter after he denied the Messiah three times he previously proclaimed as the Son of the Most High? Indeed, Peter felt badly after he heard the third crowing of the cock, i.e. - he repented of sorts. Had he not done so then or later his fate and his life very likely would have been different. Every man sins, even otherwise "good" scriptural Christians. Not every may repents, even otherwise "good" scriptural Christians. So I say again, I fully believe that Hell is full of very surprised "good" scriptural Christians who were ceretain that they were going to Heaven. Belief alone is not enough, one must endeavor to walk with Christ in his deeds. Thanks to God's love for us we can survive our falls, our lapses from grace but only if we wish to. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-05-19   18:45:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #220. To: SOSO (#210) Now, please answer my question. Is it your contention that all one needs to do to be guaranteed entrance into Heaven is to be born again? It is not my contention, it is what Jesus said. Read John 3:1-21 BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-19   19:39:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #221. To: BobCeleste (#220) It is not my contention, it is what Jesus said. Read John 3:1-21 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.” Clearly Jesus is saying that being born again is a necessary condition. He did not say that it was a sufficient condition потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-05-19   21:25:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #222. To: BobCeleste (#220) Further: 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,[f] 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.” The word used is may not shall. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-05-19   21:27:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #223. To: Vicomte13 (#218) (Edited) Whatever Christian commits the mortal sins and is unrepentent and does not forgive others is one of those who cried "Lord, Lord!", but Jesus will say "I never knew you, depart into the fire." What makes such a person a Christian? That's one issue. Another issue is does God finish what He started? “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.” (Matthew 11:28) redleghunter  posted on  2015-05-19   23:44:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #224. To: SOSO (#219) Is God sovereign in salvation? “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.” (Matthew 11:28) redleghunter  posted on  2015-05-19   23:45:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #225. To: SOSO (#222) Keep reading. You are getting there. “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.” (Matthew 11:28) redleghunter  posted on  2015-05-19   23:55:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #226. To: redleghunter (#223) Whatever the Churches of Ephesus and Thyatira and the others given specific messages to repent, return to their former works or former love, or risk bright spewed out of the mouth, etc. Whatever it took to be a part of the church, they were, and we're so identified by God too: baptized, having come to God -indeed, the Real Church, as duly identified by God. But behaving badly, not doing the proper works, doing bad works, and vexing God thereby. We might call the opening three chapters of Revelaion "churched Christians behaving badly". And since God said to them he was going to judge them on their works - on what they DID - he warned then in advance to fly right and attend to the deeds they were appointed. Vicomte13  posted on  2015-05-19   23:55:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #227. To: redleghunter (#224) Is God sovereign in salvation? Are you confused about this? потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-05-20   0:03:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #228. To: Vicomte13, GarySpFc, BobCeleste, SOSO (#226) Whatever the Churches of Ephesus and Thyatira and the others given specific messages to repent, return to their former works or former love, or risk bright spewed out of the mouth, etc. Whatever it took to be a part of the church, they were, and we're so identified by God too: baptized, having come to God -indeed, the Real Church, as duly identified by God. But behaving badly, not doing the proper works, doing bad works, and vexing God thereby. We might call the opening three chapters of Revelaion "churched Christians behaving badly". And since God said to them he was going to judge them on their works - on what they DID - he warned then in advance to fly right and attend to the deeds they were appointed. The very letters from Christ to those 7 churches was an act of Grace. They were also a strong rebuke to the shepherds of some of the churches. Look at the NT passages from Christ and the apostles addressing church discipline. Seems some of these churches allowed non believers to cohabitate. God corrects His sheep. Chastisement, reproof and correction is love. A love any parent understands but a child does not appreciate until they mature. David learned such when he was guilty of adultery and murder. The Law required him and Bathsheba to be put to death. However David repented with tears and was forgiven. He and Bathsheba still endured chastisement. Hebrews 12 New King James Version (NKJV) 12 Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls. 4 You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin. 5 And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons: “My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord, Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him; 6 For whom the Lord loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives.” 7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. 9 Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. 11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. 1 Corinthians 11 New King James Version (NKJV) 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we would not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened by the Lord, that we may not be condemned with the world. “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.” (Matthew 11:28) redleghunter  posted on  2015-05-20   0:13:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #229. To: SOSO (#227) Are you confused about this? Not at all. God is the author of Salvation. I think He has a say in who is or is not His "called out ones." “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.” (Matthew 11:28) redleghunter  posted on  2015-05-20   0:16:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #230. To: BobCeleste (#202) I don't know what you are reading to come up with this stuff but this I do know, it is not the Bible, the word of God. Oh, come on Bob. You can be more honest than that! hehe.... It comes from Michael Newton. I suspect what you mean to say is that you don't care where it came from. You are convinced the Bible is the Word of God and you are not open to other possibilities. That's fine by me though. I just can't fathom how and why God would make academic knowledge a prerequisite for qualifying for eternal life, which is what your position really sounds like to me. The Bible talks about knowing Jesus. But to me, if you know someone, you don't have to consult a book to know what they would and would not do. You know it intuitively. So, you go your way, I will stick with God's word and sometime, within the next twenty years I would think, I will find out who is correct, me or you. When you do, please come back and let us know. :^) Pinguinite  posted on  2015-05-20   1:29:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #231. To: SOSO (#221) Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.” Clearly Jesus is saying that being born again is a necessary condition. He did not say that it was a sufficient condition Ah, but He did. Now read Luke 23:39-43. BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-20   5:27:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #232. To: SOSO (#222) Further: 14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,[f] 15 that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.” The word used is may not shall. Here is the original text, with the Greek. John 3:14 And {kai} as {kathos} Moses {Moseus} lifted up {hupsoo} the serpent {ophis} in {en} the wilderness {eremos}, even so {houto} must {dei} the Son {huios} of man {anthropos} be lifted up {hupsoo}: John 3:15 That {hina me} whosoever {pas} believeth {pisteuo} in {eis} him {autos} should {apollumi} not {hina me} perish {apollumi}, but {alla} have {echo} eternal {aionios} life {zoe}. Please note, the word may is not in the original, it is not in the KJV. Let us continue for a moment, “but {alla} have {echo} eternal” alla echo. The complete definition of alla, which is pronounced al-lah' is, in the KJV, Strong’s 235 it is the neuter plural of 243; properly, other things, i.e. (adverbially) contrariwise (in many relations):--and, but (even), howbeit, indeed, nay, nevertheless, no, notwithstanding, save, therefore, yea, yet. echo is pronounced, ekh'-o, kind of like the chain saw it is Strong’s 2192 in the KJV echo is a primary verb; meaning to hold (used in very various applications, literally or figuratively, direct or remote; such as possession; ability, contiuity, relation, or condition):--be (able, X hold, possessed with), accompany, + begin to amend, can(+ -not), X conceive, count, diseased, do + eat, + enjoy, + fear, following, have, hold, keep, + lack, + go to law, lie, + must needs, + of necessity, + need, next, + recover, + reign, + rest, + return, X sick, take for, + tremble, + uncircumcised, use. So, while the word “may” may be implied, it is not there. So, it is not may have eternal life, but have eternal life. Much like the words are and even in Malachi 3:9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. By the way, what does "потому что Бог хочет это тот путь" mean? BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-20   5:51:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #233. To: Pinguinite (#230) 1. You are convinced the Bible is the Word of God and you are not open to other possibilities. 2. So, you go your way, I will stick with God's word and sometime, within the next twenty years I would think, I will find out who is correct, me or you. When you do, please come back and let us know. Pinguinite, you are 100% correct in saying that. For I am 100% convinced that the Bible is the word of God and I am not open to any other possibility, for if the Bible, as I believe it t be, is the word of God there are no other possibilities. I have placed my eternity on my belief that the Bible is God's book to us, theat in it He said exactly what He wanted to say, exactly as He wanted to say it and where there are parts I don't understand, it doesn't mean God did not know how to say it, it means I am not as smart as God. I might also add, I am not nearly as forgiving as God, nor am I as loving as God, nor do I care enough about others as God does, for I would never sacrifice one of my sons for any other. Oh how I wish coming back were possible, but Jesus covers that in LUke 16, verses 27-31 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. So even if I did come back from the dead, which if you were able to know all that happened in Albuquerque, you might think I had, you would still not believe. BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-20   6:02:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #234. To: Pinguinite (#193) The love works better, there's no conflict with science There is no conflict in the Bible with science. Show me if you can. I think people making up stuff about past lives is not science. A K A Stone  posted on  2015-05-20   8:34:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #235. To: BobCeleste (#233) Oh how I wish coming back were possible, but Jesus covers that in LUke 16, verses 27-31 Well, if Newton is right, you will be able to. :^) Best to you, Bob. Pinguinite  posted on  2015-05-20   12:22:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #236. To: A K A Stone (#234) I think people making up stuff about past lives is not science. Any one person giving an account of a past life can be written off. I agree with that. But data analysis is science, and when thousands of people from all walks of life and religions give very consistent accounts of reincarnation and the spirit world, then studying those accounts seeking some explanation for the consistency is a science, I say. Pinguinite  posted on  2015-05-20   12:27:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #237. To: Pinguinite (#235) And to you my friend. BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-20   12:41:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #238. To: BobCeleste (#231) Now read Luke 23:39-43. Nope, not again. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-05-20   14:13:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #239. To: BobCeleste (#232) Thank you for the info. But I will take you counsel and not trust you to interpret Scripture for me. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-05-20   14:14:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #240. To: SOSO (#98) Does God permit divorce for adultery? Don  posted on  2015-05-21   22:24:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #241. To: Don (#240) Does God permit divorce for adultery? Not according to Scripture and my church's teachings. According to both God does not condone either divorce or adultry. What is your point? потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-05-21   22:31:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #242. To: SOSO (#241) Has God ever divorced His People? Don  posted on  2015-05-21   23:01:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #243. To: Don (#242) Has God ever divorced His People? Do you have a point? потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-05-21   23:47:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #244. To: Don, ALL (#240) Does God permit divorce for adultery? Jesus gives no more approval for divorce than did Moses. The Old Testament ideal has not been changed. The permissions for divorce in the Old Testament economy were designed to meet the unique, practical problems of an imperfect, sinful people. God never condoned divorce, because what He joins together is not to be separated by man (Matt. 19:6). Adultery, another reality that God never intended, is the only thing that can break the bond of marriage. In fact, under the Old Testament law, adultery would necessarily dissolve a marriage, because the guilty party was put to death (Lev. 20:10). Because Jesus specifically mentions divorce being permissible on the ground of adultery (Matt. 5:32; 19:9), and because He also specifically says that He did not come to contradict or annul the least part of the law (5:18–19), it seems evident that sometime during Israel’s history divorce was allowed to take the place of execution as legitimate penalty for adultery. No Old Testament passage specifically authorizes divorce, but that does not mean God did not give specific revelation about it. Based on His own recognition and regulation of divorce, and His divorce of Israel and Judah (Jer. 3:8), we can assume that divine instructions for divorce had been given orally or by written revelation not preserved in Scripture. God divorced Israel and Judah for spiritual adultery rather than put them to death. Also Joseph, a righteous man, was prepared to divorce Mary rather than stone her for her presumed adultery (Matt. 1:19). Why did God allow divorce to replace the death penalty? The answer may be that Israel had so completely immersed herself in immorality that there was not sufficient desire for righteousness left in the people to carry out executions for that offense. Ultimately, God in His mercy chose Himself not to enforce the death penalty. That is consistent with the divine nature revealed in Jesus, who challenged the Pharisees who were about to stone a woman for adultery and then forgave her Himself (John 8:7). Apart from the death penalty, divorce became the divine alternative, tolerated only because of the hardness of the human heart, as Jesus states in Matthew 19:8. Divorce was never commanded, even for adultery. Otherwise God would have given His notice of divorce to Israel and Judah long before He did. A legitimate bill of divorce was allowable for adultery, but it was never commanded or required. It was a last resort-to be used only when unrepentant immorality had exhausted the patience of the innocent spouse, and the guilty one would not be restored. If God permitted divorce rather than death as a merciful concession to man’s sinfulness, why would He not also permit remarriage, since remarriage would be perfectly allowable under the original law of death for the adulterer? After all, the purpose of divorce was to show mercy to the guilty party, not to sentence the innocent party to a life of loneliness and misery. And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6 GarySpFC  posted on  2015-05-22   0:25:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #245. To: GarySpFC (#244) (Edited) So, the answer is yes for both questions. SOSO, did you catch this? Don  posted on  2015-05-22   0:43:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #246. To: GarySpFC (#244) (Edited) . Don  posted on  2015-05-22   0:44:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #247. To: Don (#245) So, the answer is yes for both questions. SOSO, did you catch this? So what's your point? Matthew 19 has always said what it says. Did you not understand what that was? BTW, Matthwew 19 also says: "28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel." To which twelve people was He referring? потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-05-22   10:24:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #248. To: GarySpFC, Don, ALL (#244) Does God permit divorce for adultery? Does God permit divorce if one spouse commits murder? потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-05-22   10:32:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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