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New Discovery! 2023 Hottest in over 120 Million Years 2024 and beyond in prophecy Questions This Speech Just Broke the Internet Status: Not Logged In; Sign In Bible Study See other Bible Study Articles Title: This is why it is so important you read the word of God, in the original Hebrew and Greek, yourself and not take what others say it says. Source: ChristianPatriot.com URL Source: [None] Published: May 14, 2015 Author: Pastor Bob Celeste for ACP Post Date: 2015-05-14 09:05:01 by BobCeleste Keywords: ACP Views: 59023 Comments: 248 This is why it is so important you read the word of God, in the original Hebrew and Greek, yourself and not take what others say it says. This is how Malachi 3:9 is represented in various interpretations. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. (KJV) With a curse ye are cursed! And Me ye are deceiving--this nation--all of it. (YLT) Ye are cursed with the curse; for ye rob me, even this whole nation. (ASV) You are cursed with a curse, For you have robbed Me, Even this whole nation. (NKJV) You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing me; the whole nation of you. (RSV) You are cursed with the curse; for you rob me, even this whole nation. (WEB) Notice how everyone of the above translations say "Ye or you are cursed with the curse" But that is not what the original Hebrew says. Here is what the original Hebrew says: Ye are cursed {'arar} with a curse {m@erah}: for ye have robbed {qaba`} me, even this whole nation {gowy}. Let's look at the Hebrew words 'arar and m@erah. 'arar is a primitive root; to execrate:--X bitterly curse m@erah is an execration:--curse. The original does not say You are cursed, it says cursed with a curse, meaning it could either be you are cursed with a curse or you cursed with a curse, in one it is God doing the cursing in the other it is it is God being cursed. God's word is to important to trust others with it, your salvation is to important, you need to take it into your own hands not rely upon the word or interpretation of others. Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Comments (1-19) not displayed.       .       .       . #20. To: redleghunter (#15) Seems Pentecost brought the Good News from God to every tongue: Not to everyone, only to the 12 who then had to spread the News. Tell me again please how many Gospels and writtings in the accepted versions of the NT were writting by the 12. I do not dispute that the Goods News is meant for everyone of every tongue but rather maintain that the construct of languages make perfect fidelity of the translated message by men impossible. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-05-14   19:31:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #21. To: SOSO (#18) What part of the title of your post, ""This is why it is so important you read the word of God, in the original Hebrew and Greek, yourself and not take what others say it says. " and your posted comment "God's word is to{o} important to trust others with it, your salvation is to{o} important, you need to take it into your own hands not rely upon the word or interpretation of others." don't I understand? So where is the word only? As a matter of fact where does it say "the ONLY way to understand God's word is to totally understand Hebrew" Put words in your own mouth, not mine. By the way thanks for the spelling lesson. Always had trouble with those to(o)'s professor once told me not to worry about spelling, he said that was why God created secretaries. BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-14   19:40:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #22. To: BobCeleste (#0) The Roman Catholic Church tried very hard to keep the understanding of the Scriptures from the people. They fought to keep the Holy Bible in Latin which the common, uneducated folks couldn't read. The Reformers brought the Holy Scriptures to people in translations that the common people could read. Of course, the RCC leaders were happy to tell the commoners what the Scriptures really meant. The corruption in the priestly caste was rampant then as now. Don  posted on  2015-05-14   20:29:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #23. To: BobCeleste (#21) By the way thanks for the spelling lesson. Wasn't meant to be. "God's word is to{o} important to trust others with it, your salvation is to {o} important, you need to take it into your own hands not rely upon the word or interpretation of others." If this doesn't mean that only you, the individual, must read the Bible in its original language to be able to truly understand it nothing does. But, by all means, please explain what you meant by this statement and who other than myself shall I trust to read and understand the Bible in its original languages. Clearly by your own admission, not you. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-05-14   20:47:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #24. To: Don (#22) And you point is? BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-14   20:57:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #25. To: SOSO (#14) Excellent posts, SOSO. You believe much the same way as I do (based on the content of your posts) ... that all we sense around us indeed is a mystery when we attempt to explain creation. If you could describe your beliefs, you are somewhat a deist, aren't you? buckeroo  posted on  2015-05-14   21:04:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #26. To: buckeroo (#25) If you could describe your beliefs, you are somewhat a deist, aren't you? I have an abiding belief in God and Jesus Christ. I was raised as a Roman Catholic but did not indenpently embrace the fundamental teachings and message of the relgion until I had four years of theology as part of my undergraduate engineering degree. While I am not, nor have been, what would be called a devout Catholic I embrace much of what I learned in undergraduate school. Throughout my life I have always tested my beliefs against my personal experiences,the reported experiences of others, and, equally the agruments for the beliefs made by others. I long ago came to the deeply rooted belief that one's mind can only take one so far until one starts to rationalize his positon and eschew logic and subordinate one's intellectual integrity to his religious beliefs. Enter Faith. It is only through Faith that one can reconcile the limitations of one's human intellect with one's beliefs on creation. Also, I never bought the notoin of Sola Scirptura, i.e. - Christian doctrine that the Bible is the supreme authority in all matters of doctrine and practice, as scripture without faith and faith without acts does not get one's Get Into Heaven card punched. Hope this answers your question. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-05-14   21:23:53 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #27. To: redleghunter, BobCeleste, GarySpFc (#16) As I stated and provided information in my previous post...God provided His Gospel in all languages by the Power of the Holy Spirit. Take that argument up with Rev. Bob, it's his thread that says you are wrong. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-05-14   21:26:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #28. To: BobCeleste (#0) God's word is to important to trust others with it, your salvation is to important, you need to take it into your own hands not rely upon the word or interpretation of others. Nonsense! Show me one verse in the Bible where God says you have to be able to read Greek and Hebrew to be saved. And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6 GarySpFC  posted on  2015-05-14   21:36:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #29. To: BobCeleste (#24) We have to rely on translations to have the Holy Scriptures available to us. Don  posted on  2015-05-14   21:37:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #30. To: Don (#29) We have to rely on translations to have the Holy Scriptures available to us. Which ONE is right? buckeroo  posted on  2015-05-14   21:46:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #31. To: buckeroo (#30) To many people it really doesn't matter. those people who are Christians know the difference in the false and the real. Christ said that His sheep know His voice. Don  posted on  2015-05-14   21:55:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #32. To: SOSO (#19) Christ promised all nations would hear the Gospel. He provided the means on Pentecost. Since then to this day and until His second coming the Gospel continues in every tongue--language. 1 Corinthians 15: 15 Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, who am not worthy to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not in vain; but I labored more abundantly than they all, yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me. 11 Therefore, whether it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed. 12 Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. 14 And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. 15 Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up—if in fact the dead do not rise. 16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. 17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! 18 Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable. 20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy that will be destroyed is death. 27 For “He has put all things under His feet.” But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted. 28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all. "For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb.” (Psalm 139:13) redleghunter  posted on  2015-05-14   22:38:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #33. To: SOSO (#20) Not to everyone, only to the 12 who then had to spread the News. Not accurate. Where do you see only the 12 receiving the gift of speaking in other languages? God is sovereign in salvation. His Gospel message is for all peoples. I showed you the scriptures addressing these matters. "The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”---Jesus Christ "For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb.” (Psalm 139:13) redleghunter  posted on  2015-05-14   22:46:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #34. To: Don (#31) To [sic] many people it really doesn't matter. To me the question matters as I posed the question to you. those people who are Christians know the difference in the false and the real. Christ said that His sheep know His voice. It must be an awesome event to be able to evade the question about which Bible is the correct version as you receive some sort of mystical guidance from sources high above the clouds, correct? buckeroo  posted on  2015-05-14   23:07:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #35. To: SOSO, GarySpFc, BobCeleste (#27) Take that argument up with Rev. Bob, it's his thread that says you are wrong. No, Bob is pointing out we should be proficient in deriving our doctrines from the original languages. My point was that God never expected all believers to comprehend Greek and Hebrew. Most who claim that they can are either theologians who spent years mastering the language or people reading a lexicon put together by theologians and claiming they know the original languages. As evidenced in the NT, followers of Christ ranged from the simple fishermen and shepherd to the educated tax collector as in Matthew and accomplished Pharisee theologian as in Paul. Different gifts are given to each Christian filled with the Holy Spirit. Paul discusses this in length in his epistles and we see it in action in Acts. Different members of the same Body of Christ. Some are gifted as teachers, some are servants of the church, some are overseers (bishops or elders), some are gifted to reprove, rebuke, encourage, some gifted in languages, some to heal, some are gifted evangelists, some with the gift of love which is the greatest of all. Many more. All are parts of the same body. Some are legs and arms, some eyes and ears, all serve God's purpose and will. All of the above came to know Christ by hearing the Word of the Gospel in their own language as God promised. Thus it was written, thus it is so Jasper. "For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb.” (Psalm 139:13) redleghunter  posted on  2015-05-14   23:08:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #36. To: buckeroo, Don, GarySpFc, SOSO (#34) There are over 5,000 existing Greek NT manuscripts. ALL Bibles out there today are translated from those manuscripts. Some better than others. The KJV, NKJV, NASB, and YLT (some others) are literal word for word translations from the NT Greek manuscripts. Some versions are passage by passage literal equivalent translations. Some are paraphrased versions. If someone is looking for accuracy in translating from one language to the other, then the literal word for word translations are best. If someone is just starting to read the Bible for understanding then the literal equivalent is good. Yet none of the above matters unless you will blow the dust off the Bible and actually read it and study it and pray. "For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb.” (Psalm 139:13) redleghunter  posted on  2015-05-14   23:20:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #37. To: redleghunter (#36) There are over 5,000 existing Greek NT manuscripts. ALL Bibles out there today are translated from those manuscripts. Some better than others. Good reply. Which one carries the authoritative, "word of God?" buckeroo  posted on  2015-05-14   23:25:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #38. To: buckeroo (#34) I believe that someone has answered your question. Do you need my blessing on the translations? Don  posted on  2015-05-14   23:28:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #39. To: Don (#38) Feel free to jump in and provide your interpretation of the correct version. Whaddaya think of that Vulgate? Man, that version is one awesome work, isn't it? buckeroo  posted on  2015-05-14   23:31:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #40. To: buckeroo (#37) Bucky, I don't believe your question indicates you really want an answer. You simply want to argue against the Holy Bible. Why should anyone spend time feeding your hostility toward the Scriptures? Don  posted on  2015-05-14   23:31:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #41. To: Don (#40) You simply want to argue against the Holy Bible. Which one? buckeroo  posted on  2015-05-14   23:33:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #42. To: buckeroo (#41) Let's go beyond the Scriptures. I think you are hostile toward God which is behind your comments. Don  posted on  2015-05-14   23:35:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #43. To: Don (#42) If the Holy Bible is the authoritative Word of God, we can't go beyond it. So, why are you baiting me? buckeroo  posted on  2015-05-14   23:43:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #44. To: Gatlin (#4) that people really don't give a damn about what you care for either Your comment is not conductive to civil discussion. Moderator X  posted on  2015-05-14   23:53:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #45. To: Moderator X (#44) Did you mean conducive? Fred Mertz  posted on  2015-05-14   23:59:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #46. To: redleghunter, GarySpFc, BobCeleste (#35) My point was that God never expected all believers to comprehend Greek and Hebrew. Exactly. That is why He offers everyone Faith. But you understand this. "Different gifts are given to each Christian filled with the Holy Spirit. " потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-05-15   0:03:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #47. To: Don, buckeroo (#38) I believe that someone has answered your question. Do you need my blessing on the translations? Hardly. потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-05-15   0:04:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #48. To: Moderator X (#44) that people really don't give a damn about what you care for either Your comment is not conductive to civil discussion. Thank you. Then strike the comment and I will try in the future to word my comments in a way that will be more palatable to you during my composting. Gatlin  posted on  2015-05-15   0:04:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #49. To: buckeroo (#43) (Edited) Bucky, that is exactly what I thought about you. However, are you saying we cannot go past the Scriptures to God? Is the Bible God? Careful, the word, Heresy still has meaning. Don  posted on  2015-05-15   0:08:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #50. To: buckeroo, Don (#41) You simply want to argue against the Holy Bible. Which one? I would like a straight forward answer to his question. Do you have one? потому что Бог хочет это тот путь SOSO  posted on  2015-05-15   0:09:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #51. To: SOSO (#50) I have my preferences. I'm waiting to see what you and Bucky have for your favorites, or do either of you have any? Don  posted on  2015-05-15   0:14:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #52. To: buckeroo (#34) (Edited) It must be an awesome event to be able to evade the question about which Bible is the correct version as you receive some sort of mystical guidance from sources high above the clouds, correct? i am convinced one can find Christ in any of the New Testament Bibles IF one is sincerely searching. And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6 GarySpFC  posted on  2015-05-15   0:27:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #53. To: buckeroo (#43) Hear, O Israel, and be careful to obey* so that it may go well with you and that you may increase greatly* in a land flowing with milk and honey,* just as the LORD, the God of your fathers, promised* you. You're a Jew but don't listen? And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6 GarySpFC  posted on  2015-05-15   0:36:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #54. To: BobCeleste (#13) That is why you must study on your own. It really does defy logic to suggest that the eternal fate of a soul would hinge on what academic knowledge one accumulates in a physical brain. Physical brain knowledge consists of a series of synaptic nerves storing information in an electro-chemical format. The rigidity of doctrine really just doesn't work very compatibly with one's spiritual existence. For example, when praying to Jesus, is it important to pronounce his name correctly? This is important because in Spanish, the name "Jesus" is pronounced "Hey-soos", because J's are pronounced like H's, "e" like long "a", and "u" like the long u. So are Spanish speakers who ask "Hey-soos" into their lives not saved because "Jesus" is not "Hey-soos"?. Of course, does anyone today have any clue how Jesus's name was originally pronounced. If we pray to Jesus, but have not only the wrong pronunciation, but the wrong facial image in mind, are we still saved? I hope you get my point: How do we know we are spiritually praying to the correct entity? Assuming the answer is something in the order of: God knows who we mean and reaches back to us and all's well, then doesn't it necessarily mean: We do not need to have perfect understanding of God to be saved? And if we don't need a perfect understanding of God, doesn't that means it's okay to be wrong about things? And why would God really even care about what factual knowledge we have? Wouldn't he care a lot more about how we loved others? Some of my thoughts, if you don't mind them. I don't see any spiritual value in dogmatic head knowledge, because I don't see how it's possible for God to care either. Under the Newton model, things just make a LOT more sense. My 2c. Pinguinite  posted on  2015-05-15   2:43:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #55. To: Pinguinite (#54) Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account* for you, most excellent* Theophilus,* so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.* And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6 GarySpFC  posted on  2015-05-15   3:27:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #56. To: Pinguinite, Soso, Redleghunter (#54) [23] Yet a time is coming and has now come* when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit* and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. [24] God is spirit,* and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.” NOT SPIRIT AND OPINION. And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6 GarySpFC  posted on  2015-05-15   3:37:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #57. To: SOSO (#27) As I stated and provided information in my previous post...God provided His Gospel in all languages by the Power of the Holy Spirit. Take that argument up with Rev. Bob, it's his thread that says you are wrong. You know SOS, if you would read before you comment you would not be thought of as a complete arse. BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-15   7:44:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #58. To: GarySpFC (#28) Gary, go back and read what I posted, not what others say, think for yourself for once. You are becoming a bore. How other than by studying it in the Hebrew can you possibly know what Mal 3:9 really reads? Perhaps if you would spend more time in God's word and less in other peoples commentary you would be of interest. BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-15   7:46:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #59. To: Don (#29) We have to rely on translations to have the Holy Scriptures available to us. Why? BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-15   7:47:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply   #60. To: Pinguinite (#54) Now, here is what I posted: This is why it is so important you read the word of God, in the original Hebrew and Greek, yourself and not take what others say it says. This is how Malachi 3:9 is represented in various interpretations. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. (KJV) With a curse ye are cursed! And Me ye are deceiving--this nation--all of it. (YLT) Ye are cursed with the curse; for ye rob me, even this whole nation. (ASV) You are cursed with a curse, For you have robbed Me, Even this whole nation. (NKJV) You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing me; the whole nation of you. (RSV) You are cursed with the curse; for you rob me, even this whole nation. (WEB) Notice how everyone of the above translations say "Ye or you are cursed with the curse" But that is not what the original Hebrew says. Here is what the original Hebrew says: Ye are cursed {'arar} with a curse {m@erah}: for ye have robbed {qaba`} me, even this whole nation {gowy}. Let's look at the Hebrew words 'arar and m@erah. 'arar is a primitive root; to execrate:--X bitterly curse m@erah is an execration:--curse. The original does not say You are cursed, it says cursed with a curse, meaning it could either be you are cursed with a curse or you cursed with a curse, in one it is God doing the cursing in the other it is it is God being cursed. God's word is to important to trust others with it, your salvation is to important, you need to take it into your own hands not rely upon the word or interpretation of others. If you have some special insight, so be it, but as for me I will continue to study what God said, not what others say He said. I am not smart enough to know what God meant, so I have to go with what He actually said. My mistake is thinking that others care as much as I do. BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-15   7:50:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply         .       .       . Comments (61 - 248) not displayed. Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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