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New Discovery! 2023 Hottest in over 120 Million Years 2024 and beyond in prophecy Questions Status: Not Logged In; Sign In Bible Study See other Bible Study Articles Title: This is why it is so important you read the word of God, in the original Hebrew and Greek, yourself and not take what others say it says. Source: ChristianPatriot.com URL Source: [None] Published: May 14, 2015 Author: Pastor Bob Celeste for ACP Post Date: 2015-05-14 09:05:01 by BobCeleste Keywords: ACP Views: 59190 Comments: 248 This is why it is so important you read the word of God, in the original Hebrew and Greek, yourself and not take what others say it says. This is how Malachi 3:9 is represented in various interpretations. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. (KJV) With a curse ye are cursed! And Me ye are deceiving--this nation--all of it. (YLT) Ye are cursed with the curse; for ye rob me, even this whole nation. (ASV) You are cursed with a curse, For you have robbed Me, Even this whole nation. (NKJV) You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing me; the whole nation of you. (RSV) You are cursed with the curse; for you rob me, even this whole nation. (WEB) Notice how everyone of the above translations say "Ye or you are cursed with the curse" But that is not what the original Hebrew says. Here is what the original Hebrew says: Ye are cursed {'arar} with a curse {m@erah}: for ye have robbed {qaba`} me, even this whole nation {gowy}. Let's look at the Hebrew words 'arar and m@erah. 'arar is a primitive root; to execrate:--X bitterly curse m@erah is an execration:--curse. The original does not say You are cursed, it says cursed with a curse, meaning it could either be you are cursed with a curse or you cursed with a curse, in one it is God doing the cursing in the other it is it is God being cursed. God's word is to important to trust others with it, your salvation is to important, you need to take it into your own hands not rely upon the word or interpretation of others. Post Comment   Private Reply   Ignore Thread   Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 233. #9. To: BobCeleste (#0) It seems to me that 95% of all sermons preached on Malachi are when a preacher and church board are trying to gin up donations. Otherwise, it gets ignored entirely. Just a general observation. Tooconservative  posted on  2015-05-14   11:25:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #13. To: TooConservative (#9) It seems to me that 95% of all sermons preached on Malachi are when a preacher and church board are trying to gin up donations. Otherwise, it gets ignored entirely. That is why you must study on your own. BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-14   14:48:42 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #54. To: BobCeleste (#13) That is why you must study on your own. It really does defy logic to suggest that the eternal fate of a soul would hinge on what academic knowledge one accumulates in a physical brain. Physical brain knowledge consists of a series of synaptic nerves storing information in an electro-chemical format. The rigidity of doctrine really just doesn't work very compatibly with one's spiritual existence. For example, when praying to Jesus, is it important to pronounce his name correctly? This is important because in Spanish, the name "Jesus" is pronounced "Hey-soos", because J's are pronounced like H's, "e" like long "a", and "u" like the long u. So are Spanish speakers who ask "Hey-soos" into their lives not saved because "Jesus" is not "Hey-soos"?. Of course, does anyone today have any clue how Jesus's name was originally pronounced. If we pray to Jesus, but have not only the wrong pronunciation, but the wrong facial image in mind, are we still saved? I hope you get my point: How do we know we are spiritually praying to the correct entity? Assuming the answer is something in the order of: God knows who we mean and reaches back to us and all's well, then doesn't it necessarily mean: We do not need to have perfect understanding of God to be saved? And if we don't need a perfect understanding of God, doesn't that means it's okay to be wrong about things? And why would God really even care about what factual knowledge we have? Wouldn't he care a lot more about how we loved others? Some of my thoughts, if you don't mind them. I don't see any spiritual value in dogmatic head knowledge, because I don't see how it's possible for God to care either. Under the Newton model, things just make a LOT more sense. My 2c. Pinguinite  posted on  2015-05-15   2:43:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #60. To: Pinguinite (#54) Now, here is what I posted: This is why it is so important you read the word of God, in the original Hebrew and Greek, yourself and not take what others say it says. This is how Malachi 3:9 is represented in various interpretations. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. (KJV) With a curse ye are cursed! And Me ye are deceiving--this nation--all of it. (YLT) Ye are cursed with the curse; for ye rob me, even this whole nation. (ASV) You are cursed with a curse, For you have robbed Me, Even this whole nation. (NKJV) You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing me; the whole nation of you. (RSV) You are cursed with the curse; for you rob me, even this whole nation. (WEB) Notice how everyone of the above translations say "Ye or you are cursed with the curse" But that is not what the original Hebrew says. Here is what the original Hebrew says: Ye are cursed {'arar} with a curse {m@erah}: for ye have robbed {qaba`} me, even this whole nation {gowy}. Let's look at the Hebrew words 'arar and m@erah. 'arar is a primitive root; to execrate:--X bitterly curse m@erah is an execration:--curse. The original does not say You are cursed, it says cursed with a curse, meaning it could either be you are cursed with a curse or you cursed with a curse, in one it is God doing the cursing in the other it is it is God being cursed. God's word is to important to trust others with it, your salvation is to important, you need to take it into your own hands not rely upon the word or interpretation of others. If you have some special insight, so be it, but as for me I will continue to study what God said, not what others say He said. I am not smart enough to know what God meant, so I have to go with what He actually said. My mistake is thinking that others care as much as I do. BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-15   7:50:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #126. To: BobCeleste (#60) but as for me I will continue to study what God said, not what others say He said. I am not smart enough to know what God meant, so I have to go with what He actually said. My mistake is thinking that others care as much as I do. Seems to me, that the Bible is exactly that.... A series of writings by people claiming God said certain things. You certainly are one of great faith, but it appears your faith isn't so much in God, but in the Bible itself. Pinguinite  posted on  2015-05-17   2:29:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #127. To: Pinguinite (#126) You certainly are one of great faith, but it appears your faith isn't so much in God, but in the Bible itself. The bible, my friend, is the word of God. It is the book, letter, He gave to us to get to know, understand and be better able to obey Him. I am convinced that in the Bible, we find exactly what God said, exactly how He said it and that He means every word in it. I am also convinced that if we, after much study, still do not understand all of what He has caused to be written, it does not mean that God doesn't know how to speak or how to write, it means that we (I) are not as smart as God. As His slave I am commanded to obey, not second guess, I am commanded to study what He said, not look to others to tell me what He meant to say. BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-17   7:15:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #132. To: BobCeleste (#127) The bible, my friend, is the word of God. It is the book, letter, He gave to us to get to know, understand and be better able to obey Him. Personally, I see little supporting evidence for this claim. A theology where people are condemned for eternity for decisions they make in a single life is simply not necessary, and falls short of what makes God truely loving and majestic. Characteristics ascribed to God like anger and jealousy are more likely the result of projecting of human traits on God rather than being an accurate description of an all knowing, all powerful, all loving God. The Newton model gives us that. We have an infinitely patient God with zero condemnation and zero anger, complete free will and complete accountability. We have a very real and simple reason to understand our spiritual uniqueness above that of animals (our humanity is not our primary identity, contrary to what most major faiths including christianity simply assume). It's almost universally true that no parent would condemn a child for what doctrine they hold to, and yet we're to believe God would condemn the vast majority of his children over what theology they believe? Where is the logic in this? If God is all powerful and all wise, then why wouldn't he have created a different model from the beginning? Well, I believe he did. In comparing theological elements, the Newton model is objectively superior to the Christian model, and the theological models of every major religion. Not that such results are necessarily indicative of truth, but insofar as we are talking about an omnipotent, infinitely wise, and all loving God, it should most certainly be a consideration. The Bible is, in my view, a collection of ancient writings, selected for their consistency in projecting a certain belief system. Yes many people over time have held the Bible to be spiritually special, but the same is also true for the Koran. Much of what is written is good, but the assumption that it is "The Word of God" is just that -- an assumption -- allowing a faith holder an easy and convenient device to consider a source of truth. Still, just because we need and want such a thing does not mean the Bible is it. My 2c. Pinguinite  posted on  2015-05-17   12:24:06 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #142. To: Pinguinite (#132) Your view and my belief are at opposite ends of the spectrum. But look at it this way, If I'm wrong, what have I lost? But, if I'm right what have you lost? BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-17   18:39:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #154. To: BobCeleste (#142) Your view and my belief are at opposite ends of the spectrum. *That* I would not say. There is a lot of overlap between the Newton model and Christianity. Namely, the overriding importance of love. But look at it this way, If I'm wrong, what have I lost? But, if I'm right what have you lost? Certainly, in terms of risk, I'm at a disadvantage. Maybe that means I have stronger faith than you? But seriously, fear is not a legitimate reason to believe. Pinguinite  posted on  2015-05-18   3:47:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #160. To: Pinguinite (#154) There is a lot of overlap between the Newton model and Christianity. Namely, the overriding importance of love. Sorry, but I cannot agree. BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-18   8:43:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #164. To: BobCeleste (#160) Sorry, but I cannot agree. You said that we were at opposite ends of a spectrum. I can empathize with your likely opinion that anything not biblical is anti-biblical, but it's nonetheless true that in terms of a spectrum, since we could disagree more, then we are by definition not at different ends of a spectrum. Pinguinite  posted on  2015-05-18   11:52:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #165. To: Pinguinite (#164) Perhaps I was hasty, tell me what you understand salvation to be. BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-18   12:41:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #185. To: BobCeleste (#165) Perhaps I was hasty, tell me what you understand salvation to be. I could probably write up a long essay of how I see things work, but that would likely (and understandably) exceed your interest and therefore would not be a productive use of time. But I'll try summarize. Your question implies that salvation is an element that is required, and that any faith system must account for it, because of the nature of sin being incompatible with God's perfection and so forth. But the need for salvation does not exist under the Newton model. Please hear me out as I explain. Let's look at the big picture. Christian theology is based on the idea that we are primarily human beings, flesh and blood, and the eternal soul is created as a byproduct of human conception. For that reason, once the body dies, the soul is then released to it's ultimate destination and can (understandably) never again be part of a new human life since any new human life would have it's own soul. God created man in his image, hand made from dust, as opposed to the animals which were spoken into existance, which is the reason man is considered the children of God and of special worth above the worth of animals. Jesus took human form in order to be able to understand our hardships firsthand, and therefore intercede on our behalf, dying on the cross once and for all for the atonement of sin. All in all, not an unreasonable theology. But by way of comparison, this is what the Newton model says. We are NOT primarily human. We are primarily souls. Souls are NOT created as a byproduct of human conception. Souls are instead, according to Newton, literally born of God in the spirit world. My next statement is not what Newton says, as he never makes any comparison of his findings to Christianity, but what I infer is, because we are not primarily human, the idea that Jesus would need to take human form for the benefit of atonement of souls breaks down. Souls are NOT human, and have no direct relation to human DNA. Our human nature is only incidental, so it's illogical (in my view) that a human sacrifice would/could attone for the salvation of souls that are not in any way human. This model makes more logical sense that the Judeo-Christian model for the following reasons: 1) The reason we are special and loved by God is because we are souls born of God in the spirit world, not because we are human beings born on earth. This makes us "Children of God" in a completely literal sense. 2) Earth no longer needs to be the center of the universe. If there is intelligent alien life elsewhere in the universe, there are no issues with the potential need for them to have their own Jesus dying as a member of that alien race for their own alien sins. The Bible says Jesus died once (as a human) for all time (correct me if I'm wrong), which would seem to leave any non-human, alien souls up a creek with no opportunity for their own salvation. Under the Newton model, alien life with souls (should any exist) poses no theological problem, so there is no need for earth to be considered particularly special -- which means the possible existence of trillions of other earth-like planets, even those teeming with life, poses no theological problem either. 3) There need be nothing special about human DNA. We are permanently loved, immortal, in spite of our temporarily inhabiting primate bodies. Under the Christian model, human DNA needs to be somehow special, being able to cause the spiritual entity (soul) to come into existence. But why does human conception create a soul, whereas chimp conception does not? Under the Newton model, there are no issues, even if we did evolve from apes. All in all, we have a portrait of a God and spirit world that is 100% based in love and positive reinforcement, not negative reinforcement (hell, purgatory, condemnation, though souls will sometimes put themselves though something akin to purgatory). We as souls have an enormous incentive to further our spiritual development and that is what life is about. We have a God with infinite patience, not patience that runs out when someone dies. It is, objectively, a more perfect world, a more perfect love, and more logically sound. The whole need for atonement of sin for salvation is, in comparison with the Newton model, frankly.... "crude" in a way because we just don't have the clean logic and many moral answers to life's mysteries and difficulties that Newton's portrait gives us. So to answer your question, there is no need for salvation. There is instead a desire to grow and develop spiritually, one life at a time, and that is the reason each and every one of us is here on earth, even with all it's hardships and tragedy. Thanks for reading. Pinguinite  posted on  2015-05-19   3:48:32 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #202. To: Pinguinite (#185) So to answer your question, there is no need for salvation. I don't know what you are reading to come up with this stuff but this I do know, it is not the Bible, the word of God. So, you go your way, I will stick with God's word and sometime, within the next twenty years I would think, I will find out who is correct, me or you. BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-19   13:41:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #230. To: BobCeleste (#202) I don't know what you are reading to come up with this stuff but this I do know, it is not the Bible, the word of God. Oh, come on Bob. You can be more honest than that! hehe.... It comes from Michael Newton. I suspect what you mean to say is that you don't care where it came from. You are convinced the Bible is the Word of God and you are not open to other possibilities. That's fine by me though. I just can't fathom how and why God would make academic knowledge a prerequisite for qualifying for eternal life, which is what your position really sounds like to me. The Bible talks about knowing Jesus. But to me, if you know someone, you don't have to consult a book to know what they would and would not do. You know it intuitively. So, you go your way, I will stick with God's word and sometime, within the next twenty years I would think, I will find out who is correct, me or you. When you do, please come back and let us know. :^) Pinguinite  posted on  2015-05-20   1:29:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   #233. To: Pinguinite (#230) 1. You are convinced the Bible is the Word of God and you are not open to other possibilities. 2. So, you go your way, I will stick with God's word and sometime, within the next twenty years I would think, I will find out who is correct, me or you. When you do, please come back and let us know. Pinguinite, you are 100% correct in saying that. For I am 100% convinced that the Bible is the word of God and I am not open to any other possibility, for if the Bible, as I believe it t be, is the word of God there are no other possibilities. I have placed my eternity on my belief that the Bible is God's book to us, theat in it He said exactly what He wanted to say, exactly as He wanted to say it and where there are parts I don't understand, it doesn't mean God did not know how to say it, it means I am not as smart as God. I might also add, I am not nearly as forgiving as God, nor am I as loving as God, nor do I care enough about others as God does, for I would never sacrifice one of my sons for any other. Oh how I wish coming back were possible, but Jesus covers that in LUke 16, verses 27-31 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. So even if I did come back from the dead, which if you were able to know all that happened in Albuquerque, you might think I had, you would still not believe. BobCeleste  posted on  2015-05-20   6:02:19 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   Replies to Comment # 233. #235. To: BobCeleste (#233) Oh how I wish coming back were possible, but Jesus covers that in LUke 16, verses 27-31 Well, if Newton is right, you will be able to. :^) Best to you, Bob. Pinguinite  posted on  2015-05-20 12:22:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply   End Trace Mode for Comment # 233. Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest

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