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Title: Because to two accusatons, I will answer questions
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Published: May 7, 2015
Author: Pastor Bob Celeste ACP
Post Date: 2015-05-07 13:16:39 by BobCeleste
Keywords: ACP
Views: 25055
Comments: 103
Biff Tannen made this accusation: “Many things, probably most, of the things you claim about God and Christianity are not in the bible.” A Pole made this accusation: “Because you make things up that are not in the Scriptures.” In both instances I replied to them asking them to show even one example of the accusation, neither has done so, but, because of the accusation, I have opened a thirty day email account with HushMail.com I will answer any question dealing with my theology or any non prophecy question regarding the Bible. The email address is biblequestions@hushmail.com Don’t believe Biff Tannen or A Pole, ask your own questions and judge for yourself.
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#1. To: BobCeleste (#0)
You know, I'm pretty sure it was you who once posted that preachers should never be trusted.
Show me where I ever said "preachers should never be trusted." without a qualifying statement.
If there one accusation that holds water it's that both simple-minded posters Biff Tannen and Logsplitter are lying simpletons. Understandable when you consider both share the same two brain cells.
Impossible. Logsplitter can't even find his own azz cheeks with his own two cloven hooves.
A Pole made this accusation: “Because you make things up that are not in the Scriptures.” In both instances I replied to them asking them to show even one example of the accusation, neither has done so Like magic rosary beads, "holy" water," statues, candles, Marian idoltry, and repeated magic incantations? (OH WAIT. That wasn't you.) Biffy and A Pole have agendas. Even if different. I'd ignore the unscrupulous claims they appear to cowardly NOT back up, Bob.
Thanks Liberator, normally I would, but what concerns me is that there may be a lurker of LPer that is not saved and doesn't know who to believe the slaves of the evil one or me. So, for one week I will answer any, non prophecy, questions. non prophecy for two reasons, one prophecy is hard enough to explain to a serious student of the bible, and second, first comes salvation and then comes the study of prophecy. Thanks again, Bob
I understand. My trust in your sincerity, faith, and knowledge in the service of Jesus Christ has been in inspiration to me....as well as others. May the Lord continue blessing you in your mission of spreading the Gospel as a man of God and a great patriot. Thank you, brutha... Liberator
You are a brave man Bob. I can imagine the spam you are going to get. I guess some will have to decide which multiple email accounts they would use to send you an email:) You may even have one person send you the same question from 7 or more email accounts.
"For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb.” (Psalm 139:13)
I guess some will have to decide which multiple email accounts they would use to send you an email:) You may even have one person send you the same question from 7 or more email accounts. The account I opened has a life of thirty days, after that it is gone, I will only be receiving mail for 7 days, I then have 21 days to answer and then it closes never to open again. Hushmail is a Canadian company that does not cooperate with NSA.
Bob always ignores my most interesting points and tries to direct focus to minutia and boilerplate nonsense. All he'll find out from this little show is how little people care what he thinks. I find him to be a shallow simpleton, at best.
Certainly not preachers involved in politics. Nevermind just because someone says they're a preacher it doesn't mean they are.
Like what? The volume of your belly-button lint? IF he ignores your snide BS, it's because he knows the nonsense YOU post is NEVER serious, never sincere. And let me add what a p*ssy you are for not pinging him. All he'll find out from this little show is how little people care what he thinks. Apparently YOU do. He called you out and now you're whining about him after having attacked his integrity. I find him to be a shallow simpleton, at best. From a guy who probably failed his GED and lives in a van down by the river?
Back it up. IF you can. And we BOTH know you CAN'T.
Problem with that? Why? Is it because a man who knows the Law of God can so easily shame the self-serving Law of secular humanist man? Just because someone says they're a preacher it doesn't mean they are. So you're calling Bob a "liar"? (but NOT posting it TO him?) Wuss.
I have a question for you. Do you see any problem in the legality of a wedding that was performed by a friend of someone who was ordained online?
I don't think he's a liar. A simpleton, deluded. Who you find sooo inspiring, lol. Just like you miss goldi so much you could cry, or whatever gibberish you spouted back then.
email the question to: biblequestions@hushmail.com
Eh?
email the question to: biblequestions@hushmail.com What is your reason for not answering my questin on the forum here?
Please email that question to biblequestions@hushmoney.com
True chutzpah from a guy that hides behind the bozo function, to avoid answering uncomfortable questions.
Absolutely!
I do not see any problem in the supposed 'legality' of a wedding that was performed by a friend of someone who was ordained online, seeing that the Fed, State, or local govt should have NO business making a religious ceremony either 'legal or illegal'. What's your opinion?
I just did...from a proxy in Denmark with a throwaway email address in Hong Kong.
How many of those did you supply to yukon?
I do not see any problem in the supposed 'legality' of a wedding that was performed by a friend of someone who was ordained online, seeing that the Fed, State, or local govt should have NO business making a religious ceremony either 'legal or illegal'. What's your opinion? I don't have an opinion, but I do have a fact. Marriages performed by ministers ordained online are not recognized in some states and jurisdictions. If a legal dispute comes up over a will or another important matter, the marriage would be set aside by a court.
None.
Biff Tannen: How many of those did you supply to yukon? Gatlin: None. Liar.
You "stole" yukon's account because of your association with the old rascal. You and whitesands and 22rifle (Kanary Klub Klan) traded 24 hour positions on libertypost each and every day.
You worked with another rascal, too. The admiral, AKA goatherder and ACLU lover. All of exchanged emails and details together beyond the content of the publick forum. We know what you did with yukon and harrowup. Pretty nasty stuff.
Well that dipshit didn't have the knowhow to provide himself with different emails. He couldn't even cut-and-paste right, lol. Probably took him a week to bookmark i-love-cock.com lololol
I do not see any problem in the supposed 'legality' of a wedding that was performed by a friend of someone who was ordained online, seeing that the Fed, State, or local govt should have NO business making a religious ceremony either 'legal or illegal'. What's your opinion? The why did you pose the question? I'd bet you have an agenda, -- correct? So? Our rule of law provides for the settlement of disputes between people, regardless of their religious bonds.
A few years back (maybe two) you were actually examining scriptures and making cogent points from Paul's epistles. What happened man?
"For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb.” (Psalm 139:13)
Nothing's changed. I don't bother on forums generally. No one listens to anyone, for the most part, but especially regarding biblical matters. Every once in a while i get annoyed at charlatans and lash out. Getting tired of that too. It's mean and unproductive.
And our rule of law also provides for the settlement of disputes between people based on a legal contract. Marriage is a legal contract. If there is no legal marriage, then there is no legal contract to establish rights and obligations between spouses, between them and their children, and between them and their in-laws. So, our rule of law must then provide for settlement of disputes between people who believe there is a legal contract when there is no legal contract. And that settlement may then be contrary to all prior legal entitlements and agreements set forth in any and all legal documents that were based on a legal marriage contract.
I see that you are back on forum. I have not received your reply to my email. While I am waiting for your reply to my email, I will ask you another question. In James 1:26...
In James 1:26... Does this: If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless. Mean this: If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue (fully control bitterness or anger) but deceives his heart (believes something that is not true), this person's religion is worthless (has no good qualities and deserves contempt). Are you REALLY interested in the interpretations of scripture? And are your ad libs really your own interpretation? Or... are you just playing a game of "GOTCHA!"? Pastor Gatlin, as in the past, you've happened to cherry-pick a single verse (suspiciously like all liberals do when they play "GOTCHA!".) Except I wonder why you found it unnecessary to bother including the context of verses sandwiching James 1:26 (James, 1:21-1:25) as well as James 1:27? YOUR homework before Bob answers you is to read James 1:21-1:27 (without cheating) and see if your very same ad libs apply. You second assignment is reading James 3:13-17 (since you seem to be fascinated by James.) I'd be curious in your interpretation (or further ad libbing) in that case as well. Thanks.
Is THAT "gibberish" and the extent of you response? REALLY? Lol...what a space cadet. I'll reach back out to your Mother Ship tomorrow.
Yeah. Those wet noodles sting. OUCH! Getting tired of that too. It's mean and unproductive. It's just...Biffy being Biffy. I don't bother on forums generally. No one listens to anyone, for the most part, but especially regarding biblical matters. Your prerogative to "listen" to "biblical matters." OR ignore them. But how would *you* know who listens to what if you just admitted that you "don't bother on forums generally"?
[...] Like magic rosary beads, "holy" water," statues, candles, Marian idoltry, and repeated magic incantations? Wait a minute. Bob Celeste and you claim to follow Luther's doctrine of Sola Scriptura (Bible Only). If a Muslim claiming to be devout drinks alcohol I have right to point to him that he is inconsistent but I still retain moral right to drink and to think that alcohol is good (in moderation of course) Re "rosary beads" - Good for repetitive prayers. Do you pray for prolonged time? Do you make up you own prayers over half an hour or so? Re "holy" water - created object can be blessed and sanctified as in "Then the Lord said to him, 'Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground." Re "statues" - God ordered holy statues to be put in the Solomon's Temple Re "candles" - candles are an traditional offering, especially that over most of the Christian/Jewish history electric bulbs were hard to come by. Re "Marian idoltry" - She said "For behold, from now on all generations will call me blessed" and you want to be excluded from those generations? She is blessed among the woman as is blessed the Fruit of Her womb. The seed of Eve has crushed the head of the serpent, the Child of the New Eve and New Eve Herself full of grace and Allpure. Those who dishonor Mother, dishonor the Son. Re repeated magic incantations. Do you consider Lord's Prayer or Psalms as magic incantations?
Gatlin, here is the original post, in it you will see that I am not going to answer questions here, only by email, the reason for that is simple, the best questions are th9se asked in private. Biff Tannen made this accusation: “Many things, probably most, of the things you claim about God and Christianity are not in the bible.” A Pole made this accusation: “Because you make things up that are not in the Scriptures.” In both instances I replied to them asking them to show even one example of the accusation, neither has done so, but, because of the accusation, I have opened a thirty day email account with HushMail.com I will answer any question dealing with my theology or any non prophecy question regarding the Bible. The email address is biblequestions@hushmail.com Don’t believe Biff Tannen or A Pole, ask your own questions and judge for yourself.
That would be because you have not emailed the question to me: the address is: biblequestions@hushmail.com Email a question and I will answer it. But only for today and the next five more days.
So? Our rule of law provides for the settlement of disputes between people, regardless of their religious bonds. -- What's your point?
I am REALLY interested in what Bob has to say about this, not you. Play is defined as engaging in activity for enjoyment and recreation rather than a serious or practical purpose. I am not playing, I am engaged in a serious or practical purpose. A pastor is defined as a minister in charge of a Christian church or congregation. Ergo, I am no pastor since I am not in charge of a Christian church or congregation. And I feel that going on the internet and filling out a form would not make me an ordained minister, as some folks feel it does. In fact, quite a number of folks feel it does. The Universal Life Church alone has pronounced more than 18 million pastors since it was founded. The organization ordains 10,000 people a month as pastors….free online. There are many others organizations such as the Church of Spiritual Humanism, the Rose Ministries….just to name a couple. Even the Temple of Earth which describes itself as a “religion-free religion” and “The World’s First Religion for Atheists” offers instant ordination online for free. Wow….just WOW! Biff Tanner said: “Just because someone says they’re a preacher it doesn’t mean they are.” Other folks will say that in their eyes, just because someone is legally ordained (in some states and jurisdictions) as a minister (pastor or preacher) instantly on the internet doesn’t make them a minister (pastor or preacher). Some will agree with these other folks. “Shit happens” according to Forrest Gump. Nothing just happens with me. Furthermore, I do nothing suspiciously. There can be a wonderful feeling when your wonder, curiosity or strong desire to know or learn something is satisfied….especially if is about a question you found interesting or important, or have spent a lot of time and energy trying to answer. But as there can be sickness, misery, loneliness, suffering, devastation and heartache in life….there can also be disappointment. A disappointment in life can be a bitch. The effects of frustration, exhaustion, lack of time for other activities, and loss of interest are the negative effects of homework. Assigning unnecessary homework with the absence of its value is an increased burden where the evidence of positive effects isn’t just dubious; it’s nonexistent. Homework is defined as a task assigned to students by their teachers to be completed outside the class. You are not my teacher, I am not a student and I never do anything without class. As has been said: “Disappointments in life can be a bitch.” You have my most sincere welcome.
I sent you an email with a question, but I received no answer.
I sent an email to that address and received no answer. I tried again with the same negative result. I sent a test message to the email I used and it works fine. Just forget the whole thing... Thanks anyway...
It’s Major Gatlin….and you are most welcome. That is not what big brother governments and I will have it….that is what the rule of law has it. That is true. And it is true that marriage is still a legal contract. Therefore, if there is no legal marriage, then there is no legal contract to establish rights and obligations between spouses, between them and their children, and between them and their in- laws. --- So, our rule of law must then provide for settlement of disputes between people who believe there is a legal contract when there is no legal contract. And that settlement may then be contrary to all prior legal entitlements and agreements set forth in any and all legal documents that were based on a legal marriage contract. I have no law degree….”but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express the other night.”
What email address did you send it to? For it has not arrived at my hushmail address.
I sent an email to that address and received no answer. I tried again with the same negative result. I sent a test message to the email I used and it works fine. Just forget the whole thing... Thanks anyway... If you prefer it that way fine, but, let me say this again, I have received no email from you.
I believe that you have not....I don't know what the problem is. I no longer wish to spend time on it. Thanks for your time anyway.
I sent two email to biblequestions@hushmail.com from BobCelcius@sharklasers.com. I have tested the sharklaser email and it works to send and receive. I am sending you a thrid message now from BobCelcius@sharklasers.com that states "Test" It was sent 5 seconds ago. Edit: I am curious if you receive the "Test" email or not. That is all I need to know.
I wouldn't spend too much time on anything those two have to say. I've yet to see a post from either of them they didn't read somewhere else.
A Pole: Re "rosary beads" - Good for repetitive prayers. Do you pray for prolonged time? Do you make up you own prayers over half an hour or so? Re "holy" water - created object can be blessed and sanctified as in "Then the Lord said to him, 'Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground." Re "statues" - God ordered holy statues to be put in the Solomon's Temple Re "candles" - candles are an traditional offering, especially that over most of the Christian/Jewish history electric bulbs were hard to come by. Re "Marian idoltry" - She said "For behold, from now on all generations will call me blessed" and you want to be excluded from those generations? She is blessed among the woman as is blessed the Fruit of Her womb. The seed of Eve has crushed the head of the serpent, the Child of the New Eve and New Eve Herself full of grace and Allpure. Those who dishonor Mother, dishonor the Son. Re repeated magic incantations. Do you consider Lord's Prayer or Psalms as magic incantations? "rosary beads" - Good for repetitive prayers. Do you pray for prolonged time? Do you make up you own prayers over half an hour or so? Were we not instructed by Christ "when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking." Jesus gave us the greatest example of prayer in John 17. No repetition there. Is there an example of using rosary beads, long repetitive prayers in Acts? Instructions for such in any of the epistles? Jesus already instructed we are not to be engaging in repetitive prayers for your Father knows what you need before you ask Him." "holy" water - created object can be blessed and sanctified as in "Then the Lord said to him, 'Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground." Not really a good analogy. The ground before Moses was holy because God was standing on the very ground before Moses. Where in Acts or the epistles or even the Gospels do we see the use of 'holy water?' "statues" - God ordered holy statues to be put in the Solomon's Temple Here I thought only fundamentalists had to refer to the OT for their doctrines?:) The purpose of the 'statutes' in the temple was to shield the priests from the presence of YHWH so they would not die. Much like the same Heavenly entities shielding the Throne of God in Heaven. What's different? These statues in Solomon's temple were not venerated, worshipped, 'contemplated' on like some churches do with their religious objects today. However some of these objects did become a snare for the Israelites leading them to idolatry (2 Kings 18:4). "candles" - candles are an traditional offering, especially that over most of the Christian/Jewish history electric bulbs were hard to come by. Well back in the day candles and oil lamps were a necessity to see in the dark. The symbolism is fine when explaining 'the Light of the World' as Jesus did in parables. When we start blessing the objects and the objects themselves are given 'divine qualities'; or become mandatory practice, then issues arise in making such objects idols. Exodus 20: 4 “You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. 5 You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. Those who dishonor Mother, dishonor the Son. Those who honor Blessed Mary the way she was revealed by the Holy Spirit in Holy Scriptures are not in violation of this. Those who promote more than what is revealed by God about mortal humans are in grave danger of idolatry. The way one honors Mary and the other early followers of Christ is to look for them as an example of Christian living, humility and love. Anything more is lifting up another human being. How often do you burn a candle in memory of "“Most blessed of women is Jael, The wife of Heber the Kenite;"? (Judges 5:24) Do you consider Lord's Prayer or Psalms as magic incantations? No I don't and don't think most here do. However, the Lord's Prayer and the Psalms are instructive as to how to pray. Jesus said "After this manner therefore pray ye". Also see John 17.
"For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb.” (Psalm 139:13)
Thank you, Capt Obvious. It's obvious to most here that you're not an officer and gentleman, gatlin... No, it's a religious ceremony. The 1st amendment says you should make no laws concerning such religious matters. Such 'laws' are a violation of the 1st. Where did you get your law degree? - Mumbo Jumbo University? Obviously.
He said it. It's out there, and trust me, the irony was not lost on me.
Use the LP mail to email it and I will answer it.
I just emailed you at BobCelcius@sharklasers.com let's see what happens.
www.ChristianPatriot.com/search.htm if you can't find it there, I didn't say it, at least not the way you are saying I said it.
I didn't get the email from you. In the meantime, I have exchanged Hotmail and Yahoo Mail back and forth with sharklasers.com as a test....and everything works fine both ways. I guess we will have to chalk this off as an unknown and let it go....no big deal.
Gratias, Sergeant “I know nothing” Schultz.
A Pole, I see Red was good enough to refute every single one of your rebuttals quite efficiently and scripturally (thanks, Red.) Did his scriptural citations satisfy you? In you heart, are they truthful? With respect to prayer, the Lord will not relent because you have repeated the same request 50 times rather than only once. God is not hard of hearing. With respect to Mary, she *was* blessed to be chosen as the human mother and vessel of Jesus-the-Man. Yes she is to be honored -- which is not the same as being worshiped or regarded as Jesus' "co-redemptrix." Nor does she "speak" *to* Jesus Christ on our behalf. Candles? The past as Red pointed out was a matter of light, and perhaps symbolism. NOT as a slot machine at church with prayer "payouts" for higher denominations coins. Image my surprise as a child when I was told that my nickel's worth of candle-lighting and prayer would not be taken as seriously by God as the quarter's worth of candles. Statues and images for the purposes of reverence are "graven idols," which clearly violate the Ten Commandments. As an aside, some people (Catholics) who sell their home actually bury small statues of "St. Joseph" (when he's not selling baby aspirin.) They "plant" them in the ground, hoping it brings them "luck." The Rosary *is* a formulaic, repetitive prayer or incantation. No where is there any scripture that instructs the Rosary, nor any mention praying over it currying special favor with the Lord for "completing the circuit." "Holy" water...No, afraid not. It's another marketing tool and un-Biblical rite, and part of the "show" -- as are all the bells and incense. But back to the original issue and your accusation of Bob: “Because you make things up that are not in the Scriptures.” Can you provide example(s) of this? Thanks.
Oh, but you've spent so much energy and words on wondering what the meaning of James 1:26 is! (but NOT 1:25-1:33??) We can't let that go! It's too important to satiate your noble hunger for the Word of God, and the context of James (Btw, is 'James' you favorite chapter of the Bible?) More James -- Chapter 3, verses 13-17 (NKJV): 14 But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. 15 This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. 16 For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there. 17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy."
If Bob "said it" EXACTLY as you claim, the burden is on YOU to find it. Or else you're a liar. "Trust" YOU? Lol -- *that* "irony" is not lost on me.
I've yet to see a post from either of them they didn't read somewhere else. Yet, you must apparently be spending enough time hanging on our every word if as you say, "I've yet to see a post from either of them they didn't read somewhere else." Anyway, thanks for the unintended compliment. Am I that good that I sound as if I'm published somewhere?
No.
Then you should have PM'd Bob in that case and not made a federal case of your public scriptural question at this forum (which prompts posters to poke at your own motivation and supposed curiosity.) The ad libs are not my own interpretation, they are dictionary definitions of the words….really. And *really* -- there are several meanings to your ad libbed "definitions." But again -- without prior verse and subsequent verses that sandwich James 1:26, the context is...conspicuously missing. NOT that you cared a whit to begin with, Mr. "GOTCHA!" GATLIN: "I do nothing suspiciously." Yeah, I *had* to BOLD this claim of yours. You just think posters have amnesia. You're funny. You are not my teacher, I am not a student and I never do anything without class. As has been said: “Disappointments in life can be a bitch.” How does it feel to get "GOTCHA'd?" Btw, you hardly "disappointed" me; You acted exactly as I expected. Have a fascinating look as James 3:13-17.
The ghost William F. Buckley Jr. weighs in....at exactly 21 oz.
:)
Just answer the questions, F. Lee. (or are you struggling again?)
Glad to help. :-)
No.
Let's use LibertysFlames private email service.
Did his scriptural citations satisfy you? In you heart, are they truthful? He did a good work in presenting a standard reformed evangelical position, I appreciate it. Yes they are truthful in a sense that they are sincere and honest. I do not mean that I accept it. But to address these differences we would have to depart from the specific Protestant presuppositions. (Situation is different when a difference is not derived from such presuppositions.)
The hushmail account is closed.
Theological approach does have much to do with the subjects we discuss. However, I did not use Luther, Calvin et. al. as my approach. My approach was to present the evidence from the perspective of the NT church.
"For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb.” (Psalm 139:13)
Perspective of NT Church is preserved in the Orthodox Church.
My observations have been many of the traditions of the Orthodox church have origins in the NT scriptures; however, based on my previous comments there are some which have no basis at all.
"For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb.” (Psalm 139:13)
You got it wrong way. It is New Testament scriptures that have origins in the early Orthodox Church. Some things were written down by the church leaders and canonized by the church councils later, some were preserved in other forms. Remember - Church existed years before NT was written, and much earlier before NT became available to the larger public. Same with the Jews - first were the Patriarchs, Prophets, Kings etc, then were the books describing what they did and said.
Nonsense! The New Testament was written between 40 and likely complete by 70, according to A t Robinson, and the church was still in diapers at that time. Furthermore, the bible was given to mankind at the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Your church is trying to take credit for what was in main a gift from God. That's stealing Glory from Him.
And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6
The New Testament was written between 40 and likely complete by 70, How is that disproving what A Pole said as nonsense. If it was 30 years between Jesus and the writing down of said letters that is A LOT OF YEARS - and that is Roman empire era years where life expectancy was not what it is today. The Church voted on what to include as the Old Testament and the New Testament is really a collection of correspondence - not an attempt to sit down and write a book. The Apostles sent a few letters out that were saved by the church. Saying the New Testament is the basis of the church is like putting the cart before the horse.
Remember - Church existed years before NT was written, and much earlier before NT became available to the larger public. Same with the Jews - first were the Patriarchs, Prophets, Kings etc, then were the books describing what they did and said. The New Testament is the creation of the Greek churches. Period. The NT are a collection of letters written by Greek speaking Christians to other Greek speaking Christians who were already Christians for years. It is as simple as that. The New Testament is one of the great works of Greek literature. What you read in English is a pale translation. You think The Revelation of John is awesome in English? Try reading Revelation in its native Greek. Scary good. Take for example Rev 1:8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega,"14 says the Lord God, "the one who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty." The Almighty sounds so limiting in English - like the language does not have the word to describe the Greek. Almighty? Like he has big muscles? In Greek the word used is Pantocrator - more literal translation is "Ruler of All" or, less literally, "Sustainer of the World". In this understanding, Pantokrator is a compound word formed from the Greek for "all" and the verb meaning "To accomplish something" or "to sustain something". This translation speaks more to God's actual power; i.e., God does everything (as opposed to God can do everything). The Pantokrator, largely an Eastern Orthodox or Eastern Catholic theological conception is less common by that name in Western (Roman) Catholicism and largely unknown to most Protestants.
“You have to understand that the canon was not the result of a series of contests involving church politics. The canon is rather the separation that came about because of the intuitive insight of Christian believers. They could hear the Good Shepherd in the Gospel of John; they could hear it only muffled and distorted way in the Gospel of Thomas mixed in with a lot of other things. “When the pronouncement was made about the canon, it merely ratified what the general sensitivity of the church had already determined. You see, the canon is a list of authoritative books more than it is an authoritative list of books. These documents didn’t derive their authority from being selected; each one was authoritative before anyone gathered them together. The early church merely listened and sensed that these were authoritative accounts. “For somebody now to say that the canon emerged only after councils and synods made these pronouncements would be like saying, ‘Let’s get several academies of musicians to make a pronouncement that the music of Bach and Beethoven is wonderful.’ I would say, ‘Thank you for nothing! We knew it because of sensitivity to what is good music and what is not. The same with the canon.” Dr. Bruce M. Metzger, Ph.D.
And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6
The Greeks know this. It was their Greek church councils. What delegations did the Northern European Protestants send? None. So to have your ilk tell the churches that had a direct contact to Jesus via the Apostles that you somehow have a better understanding of the faith because some constipated German monk was angry at some heretic pope is laughable to eastern Christians.
No kidding? I likely have over 200 Greek manuscripts, 30 Greek lexicons, and over 8 years in a seminary as a student and teacher. So, you're going to. Instruct me?
And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6
Yes, because you seem to want to deny the Greek church wrote the New Testament. The Greek Church dated from Pentecost. The New Testament is a collection of personal letters. They were preserved because they had first hand knowledge of the words of Jesus and his life on earth. The NT is not the basis of the Church - it is a byproduct.
Your councils do not speak for God.
And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6
You deny the Holy Spirit guided the Ecumenical Councils? Then don't call yourself a Christian. Find another word.
Perhaps Mr "A t Robinson" is in diapers?
Correction, the Jewish Church was founded at Pentecost.
And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6
Correction, the Jewish Church was founded at Pentecost. All Apostolic Churches - including the Greek - were founded at Pentecost.
The promise is for you and your children* and for all who are far off*—for all whom the Lord our God will call.” That promise was to all who are far off to whom the Lord our God calls, Acts 2:39. You're hijacking God's Word if you say it only applies to the Orthodox Church.
And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6
I did not state that. I am showing you that the Christian church PREDATES the New Testament and that the New Testament is a byproduct of the Church. That is all.
And the Holy Spirit is eternal with no beginning or end. Man cannot take credit for the Words of God. Words which clearly reveal God's Divine attributes. Same with the Jews - first were the Patriarchs, Prophets, Kings etc, then were the books describing what they did and said. Of course and your point is valid. However, Who told the Israelite prophets to write things down? Yes YHWH. YHWH was directly revealing to the Israelites and patriarchs His Words demonstrated by His Power. Same in the NT. The apostles who penned the NT also spoke the words and demonstrated what they were speaking was truth through miracles,and daily striving to walk as Christ walked. I guess the issue at hand is this...Is the Written Word of God able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus? Or are the Scriptures not entirely sufficient to lead us to the message of salvation?
"For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb.” (Psalm 139:13)
That is incorrect unless your point is the Holy Spirit is subject to the church. The reverse is what is divinely attested. The Holy Spirit inspired the Written Words of God both OT and NT. The NT are a collection of letters written by Greek speaking Christians to other Greek speaking Christians who were already Christians for years. It is as simple as that. It is quite simple. They wrote down what was inspired so that generations to come could examine what the NT church was really like. The New Testament is one of the great works of Greek literature. The New Testament and Old Testament is the Work of God, not man. The Almighty sounds so limiting in English Not to me. As God reveals Himself to believers through His Word but also through His actions in our lives. The Pantokrator, largely an Eastern Orthodox or Eastern Catholic theological conception is less common by that name in Western (Roman) Catholicism and largely unknown to most Protestants. I think we know about it:) Evangelicals read the Holy Scriptures...but we also study them too. Strong's G3841 - pantokrator
"For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb.” (Psalm 139:13)
It is quite simple. They wrote down what was inspired so that generations to come could examine what the NT church was really like. So if they wrote down what was inspired then Sola Scriptura is false doctrine since the church existed Nill Scriptura.
Not so. The apostles always referenced the TaNaKh as Jesus opened their minds to the Scriptures: Luke 24: “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, 46 and He said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem. 48 You are witnesses of these things. 49 And behold, I am sending forth the promise of My Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.”
"For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb.” (Psalm 139:13)
The Old Testament is NOT the New Testament. Where in the Old Testament does it tell Peter to break from eating Kosher? Peter recounts that Jesus eliminated this requirement in a dream in a letter he sent after the fact. The decision to eliminate circumcision in gentiles is also not in the Old Testament and was a decision arrived at by the Church and then at a later date that episode was recorded in a letter.
The decision to eliminate circumcision in gentiles is also not in the Old Testament and was a decision arrived at by the Church and then at a later date that episode was recorded in a letter. Yet all of the above happened in real time and space. All of which was by God's will and purpose. The patriarchs in the OT are not responsible for the Creation as the apostles nor church can take credit for writing the NT. These were sovereign acts and revelations of God.
"For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb.” (Psalm 139:13)
Hence no need for Sola Scriptura as a basis of faith. It is a byproduct of the faith.
Define sola scriptura. I have not used the term nor ever remember using it in this forum in the past. I believe I have used the Biblical term sufficiency of scriptures. So please define what you believe sola scriptura means. Maybe we can compare that with what it actually means and what we are discussing. On faith? ST Paul said: "So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."
"For You formed my inward parts; You wove me in my mother’s womb.” (Psalm 139:13)
The Christian Church includes far more than the Orthodox and Catholic Churches. That is proved in the promise.
And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6
#2. To: Logsplitter (#1)
You know, I'm pretty sure it was you who once posted that preachers should never be trusted.
#3. To: BobCeleste, Bill Tannen, Logsplitter, Skip Intro (#0)
Biff Tannen made this accusation: “Many things, probably most, of the things you claim about God and Christianity are not in the bible.”
#4. To: BobCeleste, Logsplitter (#2)
Show me where I ever said "preachers should never be trusted." without a qualifying statement.
#5. To: BobCeleste, A Pole, Biff Tannen (#0)
(Edited)
Biff Tannen made this accusation: “Many things, probably most, of the things you claim about God and Christianity are not in the bible.”
#6. To: Liberator (#5)
Biffy and A Pole have agendas. Even if different. I'd ignore the unscrupulous claims they appear to cowardly NOT back up, Bob.
#7. To: BobCeleste (#6)
What concerns me is that there may be a lurker of LPer that is not saved and doesn't know who to believe the slaves of the evil one or me. So, for one week I will answer any, non prophecy, questions.
#8. To: BobCeleste, liberator (#0)
I have opened a thirty day email account with HushMail.com I will answer any question dealing with my theology or any non prophecy question regarding the Bible.
#9. To: redleghunter (#8)
You are a brave man Bob. I can imagine the spam you are going to get.
#10. To: redleghunter (#8)
#11. To: Logsplitter (#1)
#12. To: Biff Tannen, Bob Celeste, redleghunter (#10)
(Edited)
Bob always ignores my most interesting points...
#13. To: Logsplitter, Bob Celeste (#1)
I'm pretty sure it was you who once posted that preachers should never be trusted.
#14. To: Biff Tannen (#11)
...preachers involved in politics.
#15. To: BobCeleste (#0)
I will answer questions.
#16. To: Liberator (#14)
#17. To: Gatlin (#15)
Do you see any problem in the legality of a wedding that was performed by a friend of someone who was ordained online?
#18. To: BobCeleste (#2)
...accusatons ... questions...
Well I guess I've got to ask - 'Have you stopped beating your wife?'
#19. To: BobCeleste (#17)
Do you see any problem in the legality of a wedding that was performed by a friend of someone who was ordained online?
#20. To: Gatlin (#19)
#21. To: Gatlin, y'all (#19)
What is your reason for not answering my questin on the forum here?
#22. To: tpaine (#21)
True chutzpah ...
#23. To: Gatlin (#22)
Do you see any problem in the legality of a wedding that was performed by a friend of someone who was ordained online?
#24. To: BobCeleste, Biff Tannen (#20)
Please email that question to biblequestions@hushmoney.com
#25. To: Gatlin (#24)
#26. To: tpaine (#23)
Do you see any problem in the legality of a wedding that was performed by a friend of someone who was ordained online?
#27. To: Biff Tannen (#25)
How many of those did you supply to yukon?
#28. To: Gatlin, liberator, Deckard (#27)
Gatlin: I just did...from a proxy in Denmark with a throwaway email address in Hong Kong.
#29. To: buckeroo (#28)
(Edited)
NO, I'M NOT!
#30. To: Gatlin (#29)
#31. To: buckeroo (#30)
(Edited)
LIAR!
#32. To: Gatlin (#31)
#33. To: Gatlin (#27)
#34. To: Gatlin (#26)
I don't have an opinion, ---
--- but I do have a fact. Marriages performed by ministers ordained online are not recognized in some states and jurisdictions. If a legal dispute comes up over a will or another important matter, the marriage would be set aside by a court.
#35. To: Biff Tannen (#10)
#36. To: redleghunter (#35)
#37. To: tpaine (#34)
So? Our rule of law provides for the settlement of disputes between people, regardless of their religious bonds.
#38. To: BobCeleste (#37)
Does this:
If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless.
Mean this:
If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue (fully control bitterness or anger) but deceives his heart (believes something that is not true), this person's religion is worthless (has no good qualities and deserves contempt).
#39. To: Gatlin, BobCeleste (#38)
I will ask you another question.
#40. To: Biff Tannen (#16)
#41. To: Biff Tannen, redleghunter (#36)
Every once in a while i get annoyed at charlatans and lash out.
#42. To: Liberator, BobCeleste, Biff Tannen (#5)
A Pole made this accusation: “Because you make things up that are not in the Scriptures.”
Like magic rosary beads, "holy" water," statues, candles, Marian idoltry, and repeated magic incantations?
#43. To: Gatlin (#19)
#44. To: Gatlin (#38)
I see that you are back on forum. I have not received your reply to my email.
#45. To: Gatlin (#37)
-- I do have a fact. Marriages performed by ministers ordained online are not recognized in some states and jurisdictions. If a legal dispute comes up over a will or another important matter, the marriage would be set aside by a court.
--- our rule of law also provides for the settlement of disputes between people based on a legal contract.
Thank you, Capt Obvious. Marriage is a legal contract.
So you and big brother govts would have it. The 1st amendment says you should make no laws concerning such religious matters. If there is no legal marriage, then there is no legal contract to establish rights and obligations between spouses, between them and their children, and between them and their in- laws. --- So, our rule of law must then provide for settlement of disputes between people who believe there is a legal contract when there is no legal contract. And that settlement may then be contrary to all prior legal entitlements and agreements set forth in any and all legal documents that were based on a legal marriage contract.
Where did you get your law degree? - Mumbo Jumbo University?
#46. To: Liberator, BobCeleste, Biff Tanner (#39)
Are you REALLY interested in the interpretations of scripture?
And are your ad libs really your own interpretation?
The ad libs are not my own interpretation, they are dictionary definitions of the words….really. Or... are you just playing a game of "GOTCHA!"?
Pastor Gatlin…
As in the past, you've happened to cherry-pick a single verse (suspiciously like all liberals do when they play "GOTCHA!".)
Except I wonder why you found it unnecessary to bother including the context of verses sandwiching James 1:26 (James, 1:21-1:25) as well as James 1:27?
YOUR homework …
Thanks.
#47. To: BobCeleste (#43)
#48. To: BobCeleste (#44)
biblequestions@hushmail.com
#49. To: tpaine (#45)
Thank you, Capt Obvious.
Marriage is a legal contract.
The 1st amendment says you should make no laws concerning such religious matters.
Where did you get your law degree? - Mumbo Jumbo University?
#50. To: Gatlin (#47)
I sent you an email with a question, but I received no answer.
#51. To: Gatlin (#48)
biblequestions@hushmail.com
#52. To: BobCeleste (#51)
#53. To: BobCeleste (#50)
(Edited)
What email address did you send it to?
#54. To: A Pole (#42)
#55. To: A Pole, liberator (#42)
Liberator: Like magic rosary beads, "holy" water," statues, candles, Marian idoltry, and repeated magic incantations?
#56. To: Gatlin (#49)
It’s Major Gatlin….and you are most welcome.
Marriage is a legal contract. ---- That is not what big brother governments and I will have it….that is what the rule of law has it.
That is true. And it is true that marriage is still a legal contract.
Therefore, if there is no legal marriage, then there is no legal contract to establish rights and obligations between spouses, between them and their children, and between them and their in- laws. --- So, our rule of law must then provide for settlement of disputes between people who believe there is a legal contract when there is no legal contract. And that settlement may then be contrary to all prior legal entitlements and agreements set forth in any and all legal documents that were based on a legal marriage contract.
I have no law degree….
#57. To: Liberator (#13)
#58. To: Gatlin (#52)
#59. To: Gatlin (#53)
#60. To: Logsplitter (#57)
#61. To: BobCeleste (#59)
#62. To: tpaine (#56)
Thank you, Capt Obvious.
(Paraphrasing “I know nothing” from the Socratic paradox "ipse se nihil scire id unum sciat" in Latin).
No doubt you'll do the same for someone else.
#63. To: redleghunter, A Pole, Bob Celeste (#55)
(Edited)
#64. To: Gatlin, BobCeleste (#61)
I guess we will have to chalk this off as an unknown and let it go....no big deal.
"13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show by good conduct that his works are done in the meekness of wisdom.
#65. To: Logsplitter, Bob Celeste (#57)
He said it. It's out there, and trust me, the irony was not lost on me.
#66. To: Biff Tannen (#54)
I wouldn't spend too much time on anything those two have to say.
#67. To: Liberator (#66)
#68. To: Gatlin, BobCeleste (#46)
I am REALLY interested in what Bob has to say about this, not you.
#69. To: Fred Mertz (#67)
(Edited)
#70. To: Liberator (#64)
(Edited)
#71. To: Gatlin (#70)
#72. To: Gatlin (#70)
#73. To: Liberator (#71)
#74. To: Gatlin (#61)
#75. To: Liberator (#63)
A Pole, I see Red was good enough to refute every single one of your rebuttals quite efficiently and scripturally (thanks, Red.)
#76. To: All (#0)
#77. To: A Pole, liberator (#75)
But to address these differences we would have to depart from the specific Protestant presuppositions. (Situation is different when a difference is not derived from such presuppositions.)
#78. To: redleghunter (#77)
My approach was to present the evidence from the perspective of the NT church.
#79. To: A Pole (#78)
Perspective of NT Church is preserved in the Orthodox Church.
#80. To: redleghunter (#79)
My observations have been many of the traditions of the Orthodox church have origins in the NT scriptures; however, based on my previous comments there are some which have no basis at all.
#81. To: A Pole (#80)
Remember - Church existed years before NT was written, and much earlier before NT became available to the larger public.
#82. To: GarySpFC, A Pole (#81)
Remember - Church existed years before NT was written, and much earlier before NT became available to the larger public. Nonsense!
#83. To: A Pole, redleghunter (#80)
(Edited)
My observations have been many of the traditions of the Orthodox church have origins in the NT scriptures; however, based on my previous comments there are some which have no basis at all. You got it wrong way. It is New Testament scriptures that have origins in the early Orthodox Church. Some things were written down by the church leaders and canonized by the church councils later, some were preserved in other forms.
#84. To: Pericles (#82)
#85. To: GarySpFC (#84)
You have to understand that the canon was not the result of a series of contests involving church politics.
#86. To: Pericles (#83)
The New Testament is one of the great works of Greek literature. What you read in English is a pale translation. You think The Revelation of John is awesome in English? Try reading Revelation in its native Greek. Scary good.
#87. To: GarySpFC (#86)
The New Testament is one of the great works of Greek literature. What you read in English is a pale translation. You think The Revelation of John is awesome in English? Try reading Revelation in its native Greek. Scary good. No kidding? I likely have over 200 Greek manuscripts, 30 Greek lexicons, and over 8 years in a seminary as a student and teacher. So, you're going to. Instruct me?
#88. To: Pericles (#85)
#89. To: GarySpFC (#88)
Your councils do not speak for God.
#90. To: GarySpFC (#81)
The New Testament was written between 40 and likely complete by 70, according to A t Robinson, and the church was still in diapers at that time.
#91. To: Pericles (#87)
The Greek Church dated from Pentecoat.
#92. To: GarySpFC (#91)
The Greek Church dated from Pentecoat.
#93. To: Pericles, A Pole (#92)
#94. To: GarySpFC, A Pole (#93)
You're hijacking God's Word if you say it only applies to the Orthodox Church.
#95. To: A Pole (#80)
Remember - Church existed years before NT was written, and much earlier before NT became available to the larger public.
#96. To: Pericles, GarySpFc, Don, liberator (#83)
The New Testament is the creation of the Greek churches. Period.
#97. To: redleghunter (#96)
The NT are a collection of letters written by Greek speaking Christians to other Greek speaking Christians who were already Christians for years. It is as simple as that.
#98. To: Pericles, GarySpFc (#97)
So if they wrote down what was inspired then Sola Scriptura is false doctrine since the church existed Nill Scriptura.
#99. To: redleghunter (#98)
The apostles always referenced the TaNaKh as Jesus opened their minds to the Scriptures:
#100. To: Pericles (#99)
The Old Testament is NOT the New Testament. Where in the Old Testament does it tell Peter to break from eating Kosher? Peter recounts that Jesus eliminated this requirement in a dream in a letter he sent after the fact.
#101. To: redleghunter (#100)
Yet all of the above happened in real time and space. All of which was by God's will and purpose.
#102. To: Pericles, TooConservative (#101)
Hence no need for Sola Scriptura as a basis of faith. It is a byproduct of the faith.
#103. To: Pericles (#94)
I did not state that. I am showing you that the Christian church PREDATES the New Testament and that the New Testament is a byproduct of the Church. That is all.
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