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The Left's War On Christians
See other The Left's War On Christians Articles

Title: We will not obey: Christian leaders threaten civil disobedience if Supreme Court legalizes gay marriage
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015 ... disobedience-if-supreme-court/
Published: Apr 28, 2015
Author: By Todd Starnes
Post Date: 2015-04-28 23:19:07 by out damned spot
Keywords: Christian, Supreme Court, civil disobedience
Views: 35915
Comments: 140

"We will not obey.”

That’s the blunt warning a group of prominent religious leaders is sending to the Supreme Court of the United States as they consider same-sex marriage.

“We respectfully warn the Supreme Court not to cross that line,” read a document titled, Pledge in Solidarity to Defend Marriage. “We stand united together in defense of marriage. Make no mistake about our resolve.”

“While there are many things we can endure, redefining marriage is so fundamental to the natural order and the common good that this is the line we must draw and one we cannot and will not cross,” the pledge states.

The signees are a who’s who of religious leaders including former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, former U.S. Senator Rick Santorum, National Religious Broadcasters president Jerry Johnson, Pastor John Hagee, and Franklin Graham, president and CEO of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association and Samaritan’s Purse.

The pledge was co-drafted by Deacon Keith Fournier, a Catholic deacon, and Mat Staver, the founder of Liberty Counsel. Also involved in the document were Rick Scarborough, the president of Vision America Action and James Dobson, the founder of Family Talk Radio.

“We’re sending a warning to the Supreme Court and frankly any court that crosses the line on the issue of marriage,” Staver told me.

He said that once same-sex marriage is elevated to the level of protected status – it will transform the face of society and will result in the “beginning of the end of Western Civilization.”

“You are essentially saying that boys and girls don’t need moms and dads – that moms and dads are irrelevant,” Staver said. “Gender becomes pointless when government adopts same-sex marriage. It creates a genderless relationship out of a very gender-specific relationship. It says that it doesn’t matter and that two moms or two dads are absolutely equivalent to a mom and a dad.”

Dobson said the legalization of same-sex marriage could fracture the nation.

“The institution of marriage is fundamental and it must be defended,” he told me. “It’s the foundation for the entire culture. It’s been in existence for 5,000 years. If you weaken it or if you undermine it – the entire superstructure can come down. We see it as that important.”

And that means the possibility of Christians – people of faith – engaging in acts of civil disobedience.

“Yes, I’m talking about civil disobedience,” Staver said. “I’m talking about resistance and I’m talking about peaceful resistance against unjust laws and unjust rulings.”

That’s quite a shocking statement. So I asked Mr. Staver to clarify his remarks.

“I’m calling for people to not recognize the legitimacy of that ruling because it’s not grounded in the Rule of Law,” he told me. “They need to resist that ruling in every way possible. In a peaceful way – they need to resist it as much as Martin Luther King, Jr. resisted unjust laws in his time.”

Scarborough said the pledge was meant to be forthright and clear.

“We’re facing a real Constitutional crisis if the Supreme Court rules adversely from our perspective on same-sex marriage,” he told me. For me there’s no option. I’m going to choose to serve the Lord. And I think that thousands of other pastors will take that position and hundreds of thousands – if not millions of Christians.”

Scarborough is urging pastors across the nation to sign the pledge.

He referenced the “outrageous penalties” being assessed against people of faith simply because they don’t want to participate in a same-sex union.

An Oregon bakery is facing a $135,000 fine for refusing to make a cake for a lesbian wedding and a Washington State florist faces fines for refusing to participate in a gay wedding.

“Christians are being declared the lawbreakers when we are simply living by what we have always believed, and by a set of laws that the culture historically has agreed to,” he said. “Right now the courts are changing the playing field and declaring that what the natural eye can see and natural law reveals is not truth. ... What will we do, and how will we respond?”

Dobson said there’s no doubt that LGBT activists are targeting Christian business owners.

“For about 50 years the homosexual community has had as its goal to change the culture, to change the ideology and if necessary – to force people who don’t agree by use of the courts,” Dobson told me. “I think there’s a collision here and we can all see it and where it’s going to go is anybody’s guess – but it is serious.”

To be clear – the men and women who courageously signed this pledge did so knowing the hell storm that is about to be unleashed on them – and their families.

“We have no choice,” Staver told me. “We cannot compromise our clear biblical convictions, our religious convictions.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 136.

#5. To: out damned spot (#0)

Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

These folks are fighting a losing battle.
Nobody is forcing them to abandon their personal their personal beliefs.
However, there are "leaders" of other Christian denominations, as well as Jewish, Scientologist, Agnostic, Buddhist, Muslim (although I doubt it), Wiccan and whatever else you can come up with "leaders" who favor gay marriage.

The SCOTUS interprets our laws based on the Consitution, NOT the Christian Bible.
Even if SCOTUS defers to the 10th Amendment, gay marriage acieves status akin to the Sunday Blue Laws: inconsistant from state to state, but eventually achieving national recognition as religious intolerance wanes.

Willie Green  posted on  2015-04-29   7:15:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Willie Green, sneakypete (#5)

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-04-29   8:28:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: A K A Stone (#6)

You're full of shit Willie.

Am I wearing black robes?
Do I look like a Supreme Court Justice to you?

Get a clue: nobody gives a flying spit what my opinion is on anything.
I guarantee... That's a FACT....
So save your whining & crying & griping for Roberts & Kennedy...
Those are the two who are probably gonna screw you by siding with the libtard side of the court on this issue.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm not gonna worry about it much...
So I'm just gonna kick back and munch on some popcorn and watch it happen.

Willie Green  posted on  2015-04-29   11:31:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: Willie Green (#34)

You're full of shit Willie. Am I wearing black robes? Do I look like a Supreme Court Justice to you?

I'm saying you are full of it if you believe the interpret the constitution. They just make stuff up. Roe vs wade.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-04-29   21:13:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: A K A Stone (#48)

They just make stuff up. Roe vs wade.

They didn't just make stuff up.
In Roe v Wade, the Court ruled 7–2 that a right to privacy under the due process clause of the 14th Amendment extended to a woman's decision to have an abortion:

Amendment XIV
No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;

In Roe v Wade, the Court balanced the rights of the Mother against the rights of the baby, and ruled in favor of the mother... especially in cases involving incest or rape.

You don't like their decision and neither do I. But the 14th Amendment is purposefully vague and open to interpretation, so that's what they did. Tough shit for you and me, but they didn't just "make it up." That's the way the system works.

So the only way to overturn the Court's ruling is to ratify another Constitutional Amendment that specifically protects the baby's Right to Life. Congress has been trying to do that ever since 1973, with no luck. Once again, tough shit for you and me, but that's the way the system works too. If you don't like it, then blame the Founding Fathers because they're the ones who set up the system to begin with.

Willie Green  posted on  2015-04-30   6:52:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: Willie Green, A K A Stone (#53)

In Roe v Wade, the Court ruled 7–2 that a right to privacy under the due process clause of the 14th Amendment extended to a woman's decision to have an abortion.

The 14th Amendment is purposefully vague and open to interpretation, so that's what they did. Tough shit for you and me, but they didn't just "make it up."

Yes, the 14A is vague...but no so vague that infanticide can't still be construed as murder.

Why didn't the SC rule that an aborted baby was also a "privacy" issue WITHOUT "due process" as the preborn is clearly a person??

Yeah -- SCOTUS did make up sh*t. They ruled in favor of their own warped, politicized version of the "truth." WHICH STILL SANCTIONS MURDER OF THE UNBORN. Period.

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-30   10:46:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: Liberator, GarySpFc, Willie Green (#64)

Yeah -- SCOTUS did make up sh*t. They ruled in favor of their own warped, politicized version of the "truth." WHICH STILL SANCTIONS MURDER OF THE UNBORN. Period.

SCOTUS made a life and death decision in Roe vs. Wade. In effect they believed they could make medical decisions and also 'play God' by determining life in the womb is not 'valid life.'

My hope is these men repented and embraced Christ before they passed on.

redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-30   11:17:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: redleghunter (#67)

The notion that the Christians are going to "draw the line" and "resort to civil disobedience" HERE, over gay marriage, is absurd.

The line should have been drawn at killing babies. It should STILL be drawn at killing babies. Killing babies is a much worse outrage than gay marriage. Nobody gets killed in a gay marriage.

But nope. No massive civil disobedience over murder.

Given that, the notion that Christians are going to "stand up" and "disobey" is hooey. They will voice their dissent, and they will continue to pay taxes and do all the other things they're told. They'll vote Republican too, even though the Supreme Court is controlled by Republicans.

You can bet on it.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-30   13:39:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: Vicomte13 (#73)

The notion that the Christians are going to "draw the line" and "resort to civil disobedience" HERE, over gay marriage, is absurd.

The line should have been drawn at killing babies. It should STILL be drawn at killing babies. Killing babies is a much worse outrage than gay marriage. Nobody gets killed in a gay marriage.

But nope. No massive civil disobedience over murder.

Given that, the notion that Christians are going to "stand up" and "disobey" is hooey. They will voice their dissent, and they will continue to pay taxes and do all the other things they're told. They'll vote Republican too, even though the Supreme Court is controlled by Republicans.

You can bet on it.

Not opposing Roe v Wade was the last generations failure to act. This generation has another such case before SCOTUS.

Plus, there are many Right to Life warriors in our churches that spend tireless hours standing in at clinics, funding their own pregnancy clinics and paying for ultrasounds for fence sitters.

redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-30   13:59:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: redleghunter (#76)

Not opposing Roe v Wade was the last generations failure to act. This generation has another such case before SCOTUS.

I'm sorry. No. Two million babies are being killed every year RIGHT NOW.

It's THIS generation's Holocaust.

Now we understand why the Germans didn't fight Hitler. For exactly the same reason that we don't fight our own government.

2 million a year for 3 years is 6 million, same as the death toll of Jews in the Nazi Holocaust.

The United States of America, today, is as murderous as Nazi Germany with Auschwitz. Think about that.

Gay marriage is belly button lint compared to that.

Christians have done what Jesus said: pay their taxes to Caesar, even though he is bad. They haven't rebelled over the mass murder of babies, just as they didn't rebel over the Holocaust, and didn't rebel over slavery.

They're not going to rebel over gay marriage either - it's chump change. I do not care who has sex with whom, or how. I DO care about the murdering of babies. An abortion mill is Auschwitz. And we are taxpaying Germans.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-30   14:28:26 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: Vicomte13 (#80)

The United States of America, today, is as murderous as Nazi Germany with Auschwitz. Think about that.

Thought about it.

Schindler /= Hitler.

In America we have one political party for which baby-murder is supported 95%.

You have the other party for which baby-murder is opposed opposed 95%.

Conflating the two criminal "Americas" and indicting ALL doesn't hold water in this case. But I understand your point...and frustration.

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-30   17:33:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#120. To: Liberator (#97)

In America we have one political party for which baby-murder is supported 95%.

You have the other party for which baby-murder is opposed opposed 95%.

This is not true. It (or some variant of it) is repeated often here on this site. It's an obvious lie.

In 1973, when Roe v. Wade was decided, the Supreme Court was controlled by Republicans. Roe passed anyway.

Ever since then, the Supreme Court has been controlled by Republicans. At one point, there were 7 Republcans and two Democrats. The entire Supreme Court has been replaced. If 95% of the Republicans opposed "baby murder", Roe never would have been instituted by the Republicans in the first place, and would have been struck down since, because with 95% of the party on one side on an issue, no wavering Republican would ever have been appointed to the Supreme Court.

That is not the case. A little less than half of the Federal Judiciary overall are Republicans. Judicial activism on the issue could bring it to a head time and again...and of course if the Supreme Court does not choose to hear a case, the decision stands in a Circuit. Has that happened? No.

You used the right term too: "baby murder". That's what it is. But that is not even how judges like Scalia and Thomas treat it. They treat it as a question of jurisdiction. If there were a law that required, say, the slaughter of all Mormons, that would be treated on its face as insane. There would be no deep, evasive judicial arguments. Judges, and Republicans in general, would address the issue face on and say "Selective murder is unconstitutional", and then provide a litany of clauses to make that clear. But when it comes to babies, it's NOT "baby murder" according to "95%". It's something less than that, an issue, an abstract issue of law and rights.

Your Republican allies are not the warriors for this cause that you think they are. If they were, then Mitt Romney would have simply signed he pro-life pledge and been as full-throated in his opposition to abortion as he and the other Republicans are full-throated on economic issue.

Truth is, the Republicans have been enablers, and have feet of clay on the issue. Truth is, you and others who really, really agree with the Republicans on economic issues, try as hard as you can to see the Republicans as the party of righteousness and truth on the KEY issus. Truth is, they are not a pro-life party. They are pro get-out-the-pro-life-vote-for-us, but when they get power, they NEVER go after abortion. Truth is, every day since 1973 the Republican Party has had the power to strike down Roe, because every day since 1973 they have controlled the Supreme Court. Truth is, they haven't, and they won't, because nothing like 95% of the Republican is pro-life. They have been co-opted by the Republicans. The Republican Party is mostly about crony capitalism. That's not a vote winner, so they play social issue cards to get the Christians to vote for them, but they put men in charge who never actually DO anything about abortion, and who never have any intention of doing anything about it.

And the truth is that pro-lifers who commit themselves to the Republican Party refuse to see it. But willful blindness does not change the truth, no matter how loudly the drum is sounded. The Republicans are NEVER going to be a pro-life party. They've ALWAYS had the power to strike down Roe, from the very day they put it in place in the first place. As Governor of California, Reagan put abortion law in place there. Reagan put O'Connor and Kennedy on the Court.

The "95%" dog don't hunt.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-05-01   6:36:37 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#136. To: Vicomte13 (#120)

Truth is, the Republicans have been enablers, and have feet of clay on the issue. Truth is, you and others who really, really agree with the Republicans on economic issues, try as hard as you can to see the Republicans as the party of righteousness and truth on the KEY issus.

Yes, GOP leadership are enablers, hypocrites, and weak. The Fix is in. UNTIL/IF something drastic happens within the Party.

ALL I'm saying is that IF there are ANY ethics, morals and righteousness within either the Republican/Democrat Parties, IT is found amongst individuals within the Republican Party. Unlike the Dem Party, the GOP reps are NOT monolithic in their respective views and positions.

As Governor of California, Reagan put abortion law in place there. Reagan put O'Connor and Kennedy on the Court.

I would argue that Reagan's Elite globalist-ringer advisers selected both O'Connor and Kennedy.

The truth is that pro-lifers who commit themselves to the Republican Party refuse to see it [full support from the GOP].

I agree. But is there an alternative party to support actually changes and fights in the abortion battle?

The Republicans are NEVER going to be a pro-life party.

No nowawdays. BUT THEY WERE at one time (and no, you can't cue the Roe v Wade GOP position as representative of the Republican Party. AGAIN, the political Fix was in as arranged by whatever Powers-That-Be.)

The "95%" dog don't hunt.

Maybe not. But does the 40%-50% dog hunt? Is it 25%? Tell me -- what is the pct. of Democrats who promote pro-life positions? 0%? 2%?

The point: ANY AND ALL pro-life positions are found within the GOP whether we the GOP's chronic fecklessness and weakness disappoints us or not. And where pro-life Republicans STILL EXIST to fight that battle.

Liberator  posted on  2015-05-05   12:01:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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