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Title: I RECANT.
Source: Chuck Baldwin / Facebook
URL Source: https://www.facebook.com/permalink. ... 69863063938&id=226997970644468
Published: Apr 5, 2015
Author: Chuck Baldwin
Post Date: 2015-04-15 02:15:42 by Hondo68
Keywords: None
Views: 52341
Comments: 178

I'm using this Facebook post to make a couple of personal confessions.

In one way or another, we are all victims of our past. I was schooled in certain persuasions that have taken 3/4 of a lifetime to overcome. But when I made a conscious decision to pursue and follow truth--no matter where it led me--many years ago, my mind and heart have been liberated with the illumination of truth time and time again. I personally believe that only people who, in their hearts, are sincerely open to truth will ever find it.

I will not make these issues a test of fellowship with those who disagree with me (although, I'm sure many of them will). I, myself, believed differently for all of my adult life. And these conclusions have not been made overnight. It has taken years of study and research to bring me to the conclusions I am sharing with you in this post.

Obviously, this forum will not allow me to go into detail about the conclusions I'm going to share. That must be reserved for another day and another forum. But, for the sake of the folks--especially those Christian folks--who follow my work, I believe I need to be honest and straightforward regarding these conclusions.

So, here we go:

1. I recant the dogmatism of a belief in a pre-millennial rapture.

That doesn't mean that I DON'T believe in a Rapture. It just means that I am no longer dogmatic about it; and neither do I think that it matters to a tinker's dam regarding my personal duty to God. The Lord is going to fulfill His divine will regarding prophetic events in His time. Quite frankly, I am convinced that, for the most part, it is not for us to know the things God has reserved unto Himself. (Acts 1:6, 7)

For too long, many of our pre-millennial friends have been using a belief in the Rapture as an excuse to sit back on their blessed assurance and do nothing. Even if the doctrine is true, the way it is being used as an excuse to not engage the liberty fight is downright shameful.

2. I recant the position that the modern state of Israel is the same as the prophetic Israel of the Bible.

The nation of Israel rejected their Messiah and God destroyed their nation, their capital city, and their temple in 70 AD. Spiritually, the children of Israel have been in a state of blindness ever since. With the advent of the New Testament Church, we are NOT Jews or Gentiles, Greeks or Barbarians, etc.: we are all ONE IN CHRIST. God's people today are the blood-washed saints of all races, ethnicities, nationalities, etc. Again, we are ONE IN CHRIST.

Accordingly, I am convinced that the modern state of Israel is NOT the prophetic fulfillment of the future redeemed nation of Israel. NOT IN ANY SHAPE, MANNER, OR FORM. I further conclude that the misapplication of applying prophetic scriptures to the modern state of Israel is producing nothing but perpetual war, the demise of liberty at home, the rise of a Police State, and the facilitation of a devilish New World Order.

So, there you have it. I RECANT.


Poster Comment:

I wonder if he's getting ready to run for president again?

I voted for him when Ron Paul endorsed him in '08, and I just might again in '16.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 15.

#6. To: hondo68 (#0)

Chuck,

You're right about the modern state of Israel.

As far as the "Rapture" goes, it doesn't exist at all, but I'm glad that at least you no longer give it importance.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-15   8:10:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Vicomte13, BobCeleste, Don, hondo68, liberator (#6)

As far as the "Rapture" goes, it doesn't exist at all

Sure it does. Literally in the Latin. More clearly in the Greek "caught up."

Now when it happens, I agree it is debatable as it is not clear in Scriptures. That is what he means by not being 'dogmatic.' Some theologians say 'it will happen before, during or after' some events. It is not clear and the scripture reference from Acts 1 from Baldwin is sage advice. I took that advice from Jesus Christ own words a few years ago.

Personally? All I need is the Upper Room discourse. Jesus told His followers if they love Him He will come for them.

On Israel? Who knows. Baldwin should have stopped with saying "I don't know" like he did for rapture. Because none of us do know. What do we know God will do with a multitude of 'physical' Jews/Israelites gathered in the same geographic location? We don't know. Perhaps as St Augustine believed that in the end a remnant of Jews would convert to Christ for the Glory of God.

Should we support the only democracy in the ME from a secular standpoint? Seems reasonable. Should we care for the well being of Jewish people who still need their Messiah. Yes we should. Should we side with them when they disobey the laws of God...No.

From the perspective of Baldwin I agree...One's Christian faith should not influence politically and militarily a certain secular state. If Christians truly loved the people of Messiah and His apostles, they would provide Christian based support. If the US government values a democratic partner in the ME then they should pursue the government of Israel as an ally.

I do await Baldwin's expanded comments on Israel. Somehow he links wars we fight with Israel's existence. Is he suggesting Israel not govern themselves and surrender to Arab Muslim nations? I don't think so, but he sees some connection with all the wars America fights with Israel 'just being there.' That is a bit concerning.

redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-15   10:50:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: redleghunter (#14) (Edited)

redleg - Which Scripture was written in Latin?

And where did God say to people, in Greek, that they would be "Caught Up", and thereby removed from the Earth and not present as the world ends?

Sure, many DIE, and their spirits rise out of their bodies and are caught up by God. That happens now. It'll happen rather massively as the disasters at world end kills lots and lots of people all at once.

But where does God ever say that Christians will be removed from the earth to avoid the end? God never says that.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-15   11:07:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 15.

#20. To: Vicomte13, BobCeleste, Don, liberator (#15)

redleg - Which Scripture was written in Latin?

Here:

In English:

1 Thessalonians 4:

13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

In Latin Vulgate:(1 Thes. 4:17)

deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus

And where did God say to people, in Greek, that they would be "Caught Up", and thereby removed from the Earth and not present as the world ends?

In the Greek harpazo, 'caught up.'

and thereby removed from the Earth and not present as the world ends?

Where did I make such an assertion? I invoked Acts chapter 1. There are too few Bible passages for someone to confidently, and dogmatically, say "rapture happens 'here'." The clear wording in 1 Thes. 4 shows us there will be such an event of 'caught up' 'rapture' but does not clearly say when. Some say before, during or after the tribulation of days (Matthew 24) and some say this is allegory. No one can be dogmatic on the matter. Some views are more consistent than others. Will it happen. Yes. When? If someone thinks they are 100% sure then Acts 1 in the Words of Christ tells us different.

John in Revelation is giving an unveiling of certain events showing there will be a series of events and judgments before the Second Advent of Jesus Christ. There are no clear verses showing timing of a 'caught up' event. So why be dogmatic on it. Our commands as disciples of Jesus Christ are to preach the Gospel, await His Coming at any time and be ready and found worthy, and to love our brother as Christ Loves us. That is quite a mission in itself.

Sure, many DIE, and their spirits rise out of their bodies and are caught up by God. That happens now. It'll happen rather massively as the disasters at world end kills lots and lots of people all at once.

The verses provided in 1 Thes. 4 shows the dead or 'sleeping' in Christ 'caught up with those who are alive. Not just spirits rising. The unofficial Catholic teaching on 1 Thes. 4 is this describes the resurrection. Some views from the Messianics are these verses apply to the First Resurrection of Revelation chapter 20 (before the GWT judgement at the end of the chapter). Which they will point directly to the Words of Yeshua here:

John 11 King James Version (KJV)

25 Jesus said unto her,I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Also showing this as a 'bodily' event of shedding the corruptible flesh for the incorruptible:

1 Corinthians 15 King James Version (KJV)

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

But where does God ever say that Christians will be removed from the earth to avoid the end? God never says that.

Never is quite a strong term. You don't know for sure do you? The context and use of "wrath to come" and "keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world" are the most hotly debated eschatological terms.

I agree with Baldwin. We can have our views on the things to come, but for the areas that are not clearly laid out, we should not be dogmatic.

Most Christians (except full preterists) know that the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, Resurrection and final Judgement are yet future. That is because of the overwhelming Scriptural evidence. We can be, and are dogmatic on what is clear and certain.

redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-15 12:14:13 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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