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Title: I RECANT.
Source: Chuck Baldwin / Facebook
URL Source: https://www.facebook.com/permalink. ... 69863063938&id=226997970644468
Published: Apr 5, 2015
Author: Chuck Baldwin
Post Date: 2015-04-15 02:15:42 by Hondo68
Keywords: None
Views: 52366
Comments: 178

I'm using this Facebook post to make a couple of personal confessions.

In one way or another, we are all victims of our past. I was schooled in certain persuasions that have taken 3/4 of a lifetime to overcome. But when I made a conscious decision to pursue and follow truth--no matter where it led me--many years ago, my mind and heart have been liberated with the illumination of truth time and time again. I personally believe that only people who, in their hearts, are sincerely open to truth will ever find it.

I will not make these issues a test of fellowship with those who disagree with me (although, I'm sure many of them will). I, myself, believed differently for all of my adult life. And these conclusions have not been made overnight. It has taken years of study and research to bring me to the conclusions I am sharing with you in this post.

Obviously, this forum will not allow me to go into detail about the conclusions I'm going to share. That must be reserved for another day and another forum. But, for the sake of the folks--especially those Christian folks--who follow my work, I believe I need to be honest and straightforward regarding these conclusions.

So, here we go:

1. I recant the dogmatism of a belief in a pre-millennial rapture.

That doesn't mean that I DON'T believe in a Rapture. It just means that I am no longer dogmatic about it; and neither do I think that it matters to a tinker's dam regarding my personal duty to God. The Lord is going to fulfill His divine will regarding prophetic events in His time. Quite frankly, I am convinced that, for the most part, it is not for us to know the things God has reserved unto Himself. (Acts 1:6, 7)

For too long, many of our pre-millennial friends have been using a belief in the Rapture as an excuse to sit back on their blessed assurance and do nothing. Even if the doctrine is true, the way it is being used as an excuse to not engage the liberty fight is downright shameful.

2. I recant the position that the modern state of Israel is the same as the prophetic Israel of the Bible.

The nation of Israel rejected their Messiah and God destroyed their nation, their capital city, and their temple in 70 AD. Spiritually, the children of Israel have been in a state of blindness ever since. With the advent of the New Testament Church, we are NOT Jews or Gentiles, Greeks or Barbarians, etc.: we are all ONE IN CHRIST. God's people today are the blood-washed saints of all races, ethnicities, nationalities, etc. Again, we are ONE IN CHRIST.

Accordingly, I am convinced that the modern state of Israel is NOT the prophetic fulfillment of the future redeemed nation of Israel. NOT IN ANY SHAPE, MANNER, OR FORM. I further conclude that the misapplication of applying prophetic scriptures to the modern state of Israel is producing nothing but perpetual war, the demise of liberty at home, the rise of a Police State, and the facilitation of a devilish New World Order.

So, there you have it. I RECANT.


Poster Comment:

I wonder if he's getting ready to run for president again?

I voted for him when Ron Paul endorsed him in '08, and I just might again in '16.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 149.

#6. To: hondo68 (#0)

Chuck,

You're right about the modern state of Israel.

As far as the "Rapture" goes, it doesn't exist at all, but I'm glad that at least you no longer give it importance.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-15   8:10:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Vicomte13, BobCeleste, Don, hondo68, liberator (#6)

As far as the "Rapture" goes, it doesn't exist at all

Sure it does. Literally in the Latin. More clearly in the Greek "caught up."

Now when it happens, I agree it is debatable as it is not clear in Scriptures. That is what he means by not being 'dogmatic.' Some theologians say 'it will happen before, during or after' some events. It is not clear and the scripture reference from Acts 1 from Baldwin is sage advice. I took that advice from Jesus Christ own words a few years ago.

Personally? All I need is the Upper Room discourse. Jesus told His followers if they love Him He will come for them.

On Israel? Who knows. Baldwin should have stopped with saying "I don't know" like he did for rapture. Because none of us do know. What do we know God will do with a multitude of 'physical' Jews/Israelites gathered in the same geographic location? We don't know. Perhaps as St Augustine believed that in the end a remnant of Jews would convert to Christ for the Glory of God.

Should we support the only democracy in the ME from a secular standpoint? Seems reasonable. Should we care for the well being of Jewish people who still need their Messiah. Yes we should. Should we side with them when they disobey the laws of God...No.

From the perspective of Baldwin I agree...One's Christian faith should not influence politically and militarily a certain secular state. If Christians truly loved the people of Messiah and His apostles, they would provide Christian based support. If the US government values a democratic partner in the ME then they should pursue the government of Israel as an ally.

I do await Baldwin's expanded comments on Israel. Somehow he links wars we fight with Israel's existence. Is he suggesting Israel not govern themselves and surrender to Arab Muslim nations? I don't think so, but he sees some connection with all the wars America fights with Israel 'just being there.' That is a bit concerning.

redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-15   10:50:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: redleghunter, Vicomte13, BobCeleste, Don, hondo68, liberator (#14)

As far as the "Rapture" goes, it doesn't exist at all

Sure it does. Literally in the Latin. More clearly in the Greek "caught up."

Now when it happens, I agree it is debatable as it is not clear in Scriptures.

Interesting discussion here dealing with the end times and rapture.

On a similar note, has anyone here been watching the series "Dig" on USA Network?.

Deckard  posted on  2015-04-15   12:35:38 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Deckard (#24)

"Dig"? What's it about?

Btw, I'll bookmark your link. The beginning sounds reasonable. The rest appears to cover quite a bit of fascinating ground.

But will he maintain that there are actual UFOs with "aliens" mistaken for "angels"...and new life forms?

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-15   12:44:27 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Liberator (#27)

But will he maintain that there are actual UFOs with "aliens" mistaken for "angels"...and new life forms?

His view (and mine as well) is that the "Great Deception" will be fallen angels posing as aliens, telling the world that they created humans and have returned to save us.

The Vatican will go along with it, as will all of the other (apostate) religions.

His view is that the UFO's are actual, physical vehicles, the so-called "extra-terrestrials" are demonic entities.

Deckard  posted on  2015-04-15   12:52:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Deckard (#29)

His view (and mine as well) is that the "Great Deception" will be fallen angels posing as aliens, telling the world that they created humans and have returned to save us.

I can absolutely buy that deception. I can definitely imagine the scenario you've envisioned. People are desperate to be "saved" by anyone, anything other than Jesus Christ and God. Especially aliens. You've no doubt noted the obsession by TV and movies of alien supernatural power, zombies, and magic themes?

The Vatican will go along with it, as will all of the other (apostate) religions.

That I can also believe. The Vatican (not to be confused with Catholic people) has been a front. For evil.

His view is that the UFO's are actual, physical vehicles, the so-called "extra-terrestrials" are demonic entities.

Aliens = demons. My belief as well. That the UFOs are actual physical contraptions....They could also be mirages and a trick upon open minds.

Btw, been listening to you link....thanks.

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-15   13:05:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Liberator, Deckard (#31)

The Vatican will go along with it, as will all of the other (apostate) religions.

That I can also believe. The Vatican (not to be confused with Catholic people) has been a front. For evil.

Pope Francis says he would baptise aliens: 'Who are we to close doors?'

Seems to fit:)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-15   14:12:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: redleghunter, Deckard, Bob Celeste, Stoner, A K A Stone, Vicomte13, CZ82, TooConservative (#34)

(link) Pope Francis says he would baptise aliens: 'Who are we to close doors?'

Seems to fit:)

"Who?" indeed. This statement from this Pope fits like an asbestos glove :-)

If two of the past three Popes were willing to kiss the Koran, then NOTHING should be surprising from the Vatican. It's been an embarrassment now for too long.

(from Red's link):

Speaking at the British Science Festival in 2010, one of then-Pope Benedict XVI’s astronomers said he would baptise an alien “if they asked”. While he accepted that the chances of ever getting such an opportunity were slim, Guy Consolmagno said: “Any entity – no matter how many tentacles it has – has a soul.”

Firstly....who knew the Vatican has a staff of astronomers? WHY??

Secondly, Pope Benedict and now Francis are ready to baptize ETs..."no matter how many tentacles"?? Very odd statement.

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-17   12:58:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: Liberator (#90)

The Pope has to be up to date on scientific theory.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-17   13:30:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: Vicomte13 (#91)

The Pope has to be up to date on scientific theory.

Am I to understand this is your theory for the reason for the Vatican's astronomers?

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-17   13:37:09 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: Liberator (#92)

Am I to understand this is your theory for the reason for the Vatican's astronomers?

It's not a theory.

Modern astronomy began with the Church (Copernicus, Galileo), and to this day much of the grunt work of recording the transits of planets across the Sun is done worldwide by the Jesuits.

Pope Leo XIII, speaking in 1891 of the purpose of the Vatican Observatory: “…that everyone might see clearly that the Church and her Pastors are not opposed to true and solid science, whether human or divine, but that they embrace it, encourage it, and promote it with the fullest possible devotion.”

Modern science originally came out of the Catholic universities. Philosophically, the Catholic Church is pro-science because of the belief in a universe rationally ordered by God.

Think of all of the universities just in the USA that are Catholic: Notre Dame, Georgetown, Boston College, Loyola, St. John's, Marquette. Overseas, the Sorbonne has been nationalized in France, but Louvain and La Sapienza are still Catholic. All told, there are 1358 Catholic universities around the world.

(There are a total of 2474 4-year colleges of all types in the USA; 197 of them are Catholic.)

The Catholic Church is the most widespread educational institution on the planet, with more primary and secondary educational systems in more countries than any other. And remember: the Pope is the head of all of that. He needs to know what is going on in the scientific world.

Heliocentrism originated from a Catholic monk, Copernicus, was confirmed by the observations of a Catholic university professor, Galileo.

Modern scientific theory was derived by a devout French Catholic: Descartes, with deeper math theory expounded by a devout visionary, Paschal. Pasteur gave us germ theory, and the monk Mendel gave us genetic theory. Bacon, the medieval who prefigured the scientific method, was a Catholic monk. So was the famous William of Ockham, author of "Occam's Razor" (he was a Franciscan).

Avogadro (of the famous number) and Bequerel, Volta (inventor of the battery) and Vesalius (founder of anatomy); Lavoisier (creator of chemistry), Lamarck (whom Darwin challenged), Fermat and Galvani with his frog legs. And so on.

The Catholic Church has always been scientific in its focus. Catholics believe that the Natural Law is God's law, and that God's laws are rational. Therefore, Catholics have always expected to find rational order in the universe, and have always intuited that, if they looked hard enough, they would find it.

This is one of the distinctive features of Catholic philosophy that is different - radically different - from many of the Protestant philosophies.

It's the reason why Catholics are untroubled by the theory of evolution, and teach it in Catholic schools. It's the best science (as produced through the method), at the time. Obviously Catholics believe that God is the source of all natural law.

The Church has always been interested in the sciences, and needs to be, because science and religion are fundamentally intertwined, and the Pope needs to be kept up to date on developments.

That's why the Pope has an astronomer.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-17   14:45:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: Vicomte13 (#94)

Pope Leo XIII, speaking in 1891 of the purpose of the Vatican Observatory: “…that everyone might see clearly that the Church and her Pastors are not opposed to true and solid science, whether human or divine, but that they embrace it, encourage it, and promote it with the fullest possible devotion.”

Modern science originally came out of the Catholic universities. Philosophically, the Catholic Church is pro-science because of the belief in a universe rationally ordered by God.

Think of all of the universities just in the USA that are Catholic...

I can accept your scientific knowledge explanation fully.....and it made sense. IN THE PAST. Back when the Vatican was as active, powerful and rich a force on the planet. In that sense, astronomy as one more scientific subject to be studied behooved the Vatican and Catholic Universities...

But does it make any sense in the last half century or so? How is the Vatican with its staff of astronomers really supposed to make more discoveries than NASA or any international space programs and modern equipment?

If the Pope needs updating on the discovery new planets, I'm sure the world's scientific community can update him. At this point it's just a hobby. And btw -- what "developments" would be so crucial in the field of astronomy that any Pope needs to be "updated"? "Alien" life??

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-17   16:17:10 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: Liberator (#101)

And btw -- what "developments" would be so crucial in the field of astronomy that any Pope needs to be "updated"? "Alien" life??

Maybe, if the Pope takes some of Revelation literally, he will be looking for this:

Revelation 9

9 Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit. 2 And he opened the bottomless pit, and smoke arose out of the pit like the smoke of a great furnace. So the sun and the air were darkened because of the smoke of the pit.

3 Then out of the smoke locusts came upon the earth. And to them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4 They were commanded not to harm the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only those men who do not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5 And they were not given authority to kill them, but to torment them for five months. Their torment was like the torment of a scorpion when it strikes a man. 6 In those days men will seek death and will not find it; they will desire to die, and death will flee from them.

7 The shape of the locusts was like horses prepared for battle. On their heads were crowns of something like gold, and their faces were like the faces of men. 8 They had hair like women’s hair, and their teeth were like lions’ teeth. 9 And they had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like the sound of chariots with many horses running into battle. 10 They had tails like scorpions, and there were stings in their tails. Their power was to hurt men five months. 11 And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.

12 One woe is past. Behold, still two more woes are coming after these things.

redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-17   16:36:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#112. To: redleghunter (#108)

Maybe, if the Pope takes some of Revelation literally, he will be looking for this:

Revelation 9

9 Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit. 2 And he opened the bottomless pit, and smoke arose out of the pit like the smoke of a great furnace. So the sun and the air were darkened because of the smoke of the pit....

(No telescope needed.)

Not a big fan of "woes."

;-)

Liberator  posted on  2015-04-17   16:49:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#114. To: Liberator (#112)

And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth.

I forget, was that Nebuchadnezzar or Lucifer in Isaiah?

VxH  posted on  2015-04-17   17:00:12 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#119. To: VxH (#114)

Would it have been Neb. or Lucifer who fell from Heaven like a shooting star?

Don  posted on  2015-04-17   17:50:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#122. To: Don (#119)

Would it have been Neb. or Lucifer who fell from Heaven like a shooting star?

Either, depending on which translation of Isaiah you read.

King James is the only one that refers to Lucifer instead of Ne-bu-chad-nez-ZAR.

ZAR/SAR being an Akkadian meme meaning Sun-prince.

It's not surprising joly ol' King Jimmuh's translation would be the one to muddy the water - and draw attention away from the perch he himself was propped upon, atop the theocratic state-establishment.

VxH  posted on  2015-04-17   19:12:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#138. To: VxH (#122)

Which version has King Neb. living in Heaven and turning into a shooting star?

Don  posted on  2015-04-18   15:00:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#140. To: Don (#138) (Edited)

Isa 14:12

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

KJV

Lucifer the Light bearer - aka the Morning Star - symbol of the fallen king of Babylon.

Who is the fallen king of Babylon?

Hint: It aint the debil - it was a man, and his name was Nebuchadnezzar.

http://biblehub.com/topical/naves/l/lucifer--nebuchadnezzar_called_by_this_name.htm

https://www.google.com/#q=Nebuchadnezzar+or+Lucifer

VxH  posted on  2015-04-18   15:21:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#143. To: VxH (#140)

The reference is to Satan by using a human King as a symbol. You know this already, don't you?

Don  posted on  2015-04-18   17:32:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#146. To: Don (#143)

the reference is to Satan by using a human King as a symbol.

You sure it isn't a reference to the temporal King for which Satan later became a substitute symbol?

VxH  posted on  2015-04-18   19:20:47 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#147. To: VxH (#146)

I don't think so.

Don  posted on  2015-04-18   19:35:49 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#148. To: Don (#147) (Edited)

Well, evidently others disagree.

"It is king Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon who embodies the great villain position of Satan in the bible. Our image of Satan is developed from the fall of king Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon's evil human pride. The 'Babylon has Fallen!', in the Book of Revelations, is relating to the future fall of secular world dominance in preparation for the coming of Messianic Reign. The dynasty of prideful, world dominant, God authorized, secular world powers, passing from one nation to another over time, initiated from king Nebuchadnezzar, falls at our future Battle of Armageddon. The ‘beast’, and ‘whore of Babylon’, which are cast into hell with Satan, in the future apocalypse, begin with king Nebuchadnezzar. To understand where the Satan/Babylon, who falls in the Book of Revelation is coming from, king Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon is ground zero...."

www.apocalypseangel.com/morningstar.html

I've never been to that web site before, I just googled "is satan nebuchadnezzar".. and that happens to be at the top of the results, and also pretty much in line with my observations and conclusions. I don't buy the Appokeelyptic mumbo jumbo other than that it's a mythology that articulates the cyclical demise of human culture described in Romans 1:25+.

For other mythologies regarding Fallen Angels - take a look at the Yazedi of Northern Iraq.

Fallen Angels -- or FRAUDS who would be man-god-kings among the superstitious and easily deceived?

VxH  posted on  2015-04-18   19:50:30 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#149. To: VxH, liberator, A K A Stone (#148)

"It is king Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon who embodies the great villain position of Satan in the bible. Our image of Satan is developed from the fall of king Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon's evil human pride. The 'Babylon has Fallen!', in the Book of Revelations, is relating to the future fall of secular world dominance in preparation for the coming of Messianic Reign. The dynasty of prideful, world dominant, God authorized, secular world powers, passing from one nation to another over time, initiated from king Nebuchadnezzar, falls at our future Battle of Armageddon. The ‘beast’, and ‘whore of Babylon’, which are cast into hell with Satan, in the future apocalypse, begin with king Nebuchadnezzar. To understand where the Satan/Babylon, who falls in the Book of Revelation is coming from, king Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon is ground zero...."

Wow has everything you love to write about done so succinctly.

Only thing missing is the reference to Caesarian eunuch priests being thrown in the lake of fire:)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-04-18   20:00:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 149.

#150. To: redleghunter (#149)

Wow has everything you love to write about done so succinctly.

That's the beauty of self-evident Truth when free minded Individuals are allowed to pursue it without state-established coercion.

VxH  posted on  2015-04-18 20:04:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#151. To: redleghunter (#149) (Edited)

Only thing missing is the reference to Caesarian eunuch priests being thrown in the lake of fire:)

Quack, Waddle...

"The fall of Korah and his band of morning stars being cast into hell gives us the image of 'morning star', 'fallen angel' Lucifer, aka Satan, being thrust into hell. The Book of Jude refers to Korah and his band of morning stars as fallen 'angels'. "

Eunuducks.

Now who was Korah?

"Korah, son of Izhar, son of Kohath, son of Levi [and Dathan and Abiram, sons of Eliab, son of Pallu, son of Reuben] took two hundred and fifty Israelites who were leaders in the community, members of the council and men of note. They stood before Moses and Aaron, to whom they said, "Enough from you! The whole community, all of them, are holy; the LORD is in their midst. Why then should you set yourselves over the LORD's congregation?"."

Levites. What a surprise.

Num 16:1-2

16 Korah son of Izhar, the son of Kohath, the son of Levi, and certain Reubenites — Dathan and Abiram, sons of Eliab, and On son of Peleth — became insolenta 2 and rose up against Moses.

NIV

 

Woops there it is!

VxH  posted on  2015-04-18 20:09:02 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#152. To: redleghunter (#149)

Only thing missing is the reference to Caesarian eunuch priests being thrown in the lake of fire

Num 16:31-35

31 As soon as he finished saying all this, the ground under them split apart 32 and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them, with their households and all Korah's men and all their possessions. 33 They went down alive into the grave, with everything they owned; the earth closed over them, and they perished and were gone from the community. 34 At their cries, all the Israelites around them fled, shouting, "The earth is going to swallow us too!"

35 And fire came out from the Lord and consumed the 250 men who were offering the incense. NIV

Sort of like that?

VxH  posted on  2015-04-18 21:05:29 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 149.

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