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Title: 'Jesus is a MYTH': Christ stories appeared decades after his 'death' - and he was probably many people rather than just one, atheist writer claims
Source:
Daily Mail Online
URL Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet ... le-just-one-writer-claims.html
Published: Apr 3, 2015
Author: Richard Gray
Post Date: 2015-04-03 08:49:14 by cranky
Keywords: None
Views: 32651
Comments: 116
- Atheist writer David Fitzgerald claims there is no evidence Jesus existed
- The San Francisco based author instead says Jesus was a literary allegory created by combining old Jewish stories and rituals along with rival cults
- He insists it is time to stop believing in Jesus Christ as a historical figure
Jesus Christ was not a real person and is probably the result of a combination of stories about several different individuals, according to a writer and leading atheist activist.
David Fitzgerald, a San Francisco based author, believes he has compiled compelling evidence that proves Jesus did not exist.
He claims there are no contemporary mentions of Jesus in historical accounts from the time when he was supposed to have lived, yet other Jewish sect leaders from the time do appear.
Mystery: This painting depicts Jesus Christ as single person but writer David Fitzgerald believes he was a literary invention that combined the stories from several cults and figures in Judea during the first century
He also points to discrepancies in the early gospels of Mark, Matthew and Luke, claiming these were written decades after the supposed time of Jesus.
Instead he insists the disciples of Jesus were also probably not real and their names only later attached to the gospels to lend them credence.
In a new book due to be published later this year, he will argue that the figure of Jesus was actually a combination of pagan rituals and stories about other people.
Speaking to MailOnline, he said: 'There is a paradox that Jesus did all these amazing things and taught all these amazing things yet no one heard of him outside his immediate cult for nearly 100 years.
'Or it means he didn't do all these things at all.
'The first gospel of Christianity appears to have been a literary allegory that were written decades after the time they portray.
'I believe that Christianity started as one of the many mystery faiths that appeared at the time where old Gods and old traditions were rebooted.
'Christianity appears to have been a Jewish mystery faith.
'By the time of Paul there appears to have been plenty of different "Lord's suppers" as he complains about the existence of other gospels and messiahs.
'It appears that early Christianity managed to take the stories from these other faiths and incorporate them into the story of Jesus.'
Mr Fitzgerald, whose first book 'Nailed: Ten Christian Myths that Show Jesus Never Existed at All' was published in 2010, believes it is no longer reasonable to assume there has to be a single historic figure who began Christianity.
Instead he says early Christians drew upon the beliefs and rituals of other cults and faiths around in the first century.
He argues that John the Baptist's cult is one such example and had initially been a competitor to the cult of Jesus before being incorporated into the Christian story.
Mr Fitzgerald says there are inconsistencies in the Gospels of the Christian bible (pictured above) that suggest Jesus Christ was a literary allegory and these accounts were written decades after his supposed life
The statue of Christ the Redeemer (above) in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, is one of many depictions of Jesus but Mr Fitzgerald says that many of the early depictions were unable to agree on his appearance
Mr Fitzgerald said: 'There is nothing implausible to think that Jesus was a real person, but I just don't think that he can have been a single person if he existed at all.
'We also have no mention of Jesus in other historical texts from the time. There were certainly people writing about Judea at the time like Philo of Alexandria.
'During this period there were many other messiahs and wannabe messiahs who did far less exciting things than Jesus, but all of them managed something Jesus did not - to make a dent on the historical record.
'Two billion people believe all these miracles happened yet there is no evidence they did.'
The earliest mention of Jesus yet to be discovered is a limestone ossuary on which the words 'James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus' is inscribed.
The box, which has been dated to 64AD - several decades after the crucifixion - was seized by the Israeli Antiquities Authority and its owner arrested for forgery in 2003.
Although he was later cleared in 2012, doubts about the authenticity of the inscription remain.
Others have said there could have been several people named James, whose father was called Joseph and had a brother called Jesus living in Jerusalem at the time.
The James Ossuary (above) is thought by some to be the first mention of Jesus in an inscription on its side
There are three mentions of Jesus in non-Christian sources which have been used to research the existence of a 'real' Jesus.
A Jesus is mentioned in Josephus' Antiquities of the Jews, which was written around 94 AD.
Roman historian Tacitus later mentions Christ and his execution with Pontius Pilate in his Annals, thought to be written around 116AD.
Both mentions were a considerable time after his alleged execution.
Mr Fritzgerald also takes issue with many of the stories about the Crucifixion that stem from the first Gospels of Mark, Matthew and Luke.
He said: 'There are many examples of inconsistencies in the gospels that suggest they were written by people who did not live in Judea at the time they are set.
'Mark makes many mistakes about life and geography during the first century in Judea.
'If Jesus really had been arrested on the eve of Passover, they would probably have just put him in jail and tried him after the weekend.
'The trial itself violates the rules of Jewish law - why was he not stoned?
'What we know about Pontius Pilate also suggests he was someone who would not do what the Jews asked him and would often do what they asked him not to.
'Instead Mark portrays him as being persuaded by the Jewish leaders to execute him.'
Mr Fitzgerald argues that many of these stories were in fact incorporated into the story of Christ as literary devices rather than as a historical account.
He said: 'There is also no evidence for the tradition that sees Barabbas - an anti-Roman rebel and murderer - being released while Jesus, an innocent, is condemned to death.
'What this actually seems to be is Mark using the story as an allegory for the Yom Kippur scapegoat ritual where one goat is released into the wilderness and the other is sacrificed for God.'
Mr Fitzgerald hopes to have his new book 'Jesus: Mything in Action' out later this year.
He added: 'It still puzzles me that as soon as anyone tries to pin down who Jesus is we get 50 different Jesus's emerging. There is no consensus.' (4 images)
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'Jesus is a MYTH'
Must be a major Christian holiday coming up.
Can you imagine a similar story about Mohamed during Ramadan?
There are three kinds of people in the world: those that can add and those that can't
#2. To: cranky (#0)
'Jesus is a MYTH': Christ stories appeared decades after his 'death' - and he was probably many people rather than just one, atheist writer claims
What if Jesus really is the Christ?
What if Jesus really is God?
Just a thought by Rev. Bob Celeste Pastor, ChristianPatriot.com The Church for the American Christian who is a Patriot on the web.
The Apostle John had this to say about Jesus: "In the beginning was the Christ, and the Christ was with God, and Christ is God. Jesus was in the beginning with God. All things were made by Jesus; and without Him nothing thing was made." (John 1:1-3 ACP/KJV Paraphrase)
Now think about that for a moment, what if John spoke the truth? What if Jesus really did make the world? and what if He did it just the way the Bible says He did it?
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. (Genesis 1:1ACP/KJV)
What if it is true that on the first day Jesus said: Let there be light! and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the dark-ness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
And on the second day Jesus said: Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters! And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
And on the third day Jesus said: Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear! and it was so. And Jesus called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth. and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the third day.
And on the fourth day Jesus said: Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years. And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.
And on day five Jesus said: Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
And on the sixth day Jesus said: Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat. and it was so. And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. (Genesis 1 ACP/KJV)
And on day seven God rested. Well, if Jesus is God, as I believe Him to be, and if Jesus did create the universe and everything in it and on it, then He not only owns it, but, He gets to make the rules and be the ultimate Judge of all His creation as to their obedience to His rules.
And Jesus has a few rules, here are the ones you need to concentrate on:
Jesus said: Unless a man is born again he will not enter into the kingdom of God! (John 3;3)
Jesus said: whosoever shall deny Me before men, him will I also deny before My Father which is in heaven. (Matthew 10:33)
What must one do to be saved? Funny you ask, for the very same question was asked by a prison warden of the Apostle Paul some 1,970 years ago.
The warden asked: "What must I do to be saved?" And Paul said, "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house."
All humankind will spend eternity in one of two places, they will either spend it in Glory and ultimate happiness with the Lord or in the absolute darkness, pain and suffering of the eternal lake of fire that some call hell, for there is no purgatory. Your salvation is your responsibility, it is strictly between you and the Lord God of Creation, Christ Jesus, for there is no other way to God but through believe on Christ.
#3. To: cranky (#0)
Another annual recycle of discredited 'claims.'
"“Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. 6 He is not here; for He is risen, as He said." (Matthew 28:5,6)
#4. To: cranky, GarySpFc, liberator, BobCeleste, Don (#0)
Mr Fritzgerald also takes issue with many of the stories about the Crucifixion that stem from the first Gospels of Mark, Matthew and Luke.He said: 'There are many examples of inconsistencies in the gospels that suggest they were written by people who did not live in Judea at the time they are set.
'Mark makes many mistakes about life and geography during the first century in Judea.
'If Jesus really had been arrested on the eve of Passover, they would probably have just put him in jail and tried him after the weekend.
More error and speculation. I know you are just posting the article cranky:)
Archaeology from the early 20th century up to this day has only confirmed, not denied the Gospel accounts. A lot of these atheists (and liberal theologians) continue to parrot discredited 19th century Tubingen skeptics.
Honestly, atheists probably 'believe' in God. They are just angry that the very thought of someone in charge other than themselves and He has rules.
"“Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. 6 He is not here; for He is risen, as He said." (Matthew 28:5,6)
#5. To: cranky (#0)
Tell it to Flavious Josephus!
#6. To: redleghunter (#3)
Another annual recycle of discredited 'claims.'
Either there are credible, contemporaneous accounts of Jesus of Nazereth or there are not.
If there are then Jesus of Nazereth should be considered an historical figures as much as any other personage in the historical record.
But if there are credible, contemporaneous accounts of other rabbis of the day extant and none of Jesus of Nazereth, that would be very telling, imho.
There are three kinds of people in the world: those that can add and those that can't
#7. To: patriot wes (#5)
Tell it to Flavious Josephus!
My understanding is Flavious Josephus was born AD.
There are three kinds of people in the world: those that can add and those that can't
#8. To: cranky (#6)
Either there are credible, contemporaneous accounts of Jesus of Nazereth or there are not.
I understand your logic train, however as I pointed out the geography and historical facts of the Gospel writers are confirmed by archaeology. The theories of the mid to late 19th century discredited as best hearsay accounts.
But they recycle the same skither each year.
"“Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. 6 He is not here; for He is risen, as He said." (Matthew 28:5,6)
#9. To: cranky (#7)
My understanding is Flavious Josephus was born AD
Yes and he lived during the same period as the apostles.
"“Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. 6 He is not here; for He is risen, as He said." (Matthew 28:5,6)
#10. To: cranky (#0)
The Dead Sea scrolls place Jesus (at that time) as a Zealot. If so, he was not a 'myth' nor was he the son of an architect or a rabbi as your article suggests. Jesus was a Zealot. He was murdered by the Romans and Jews because he was against both regimes while they wanted to satisfy a directorate from Rome, "to quell the minions."
No records of Jesus are known that were written in his lifetime about him. All records are only after his crucifixion. As a result, the Jesus known in the Bible is a "myth." But, Jesus was real; he just wasn't a Sadducee, Essene or a pharisee. For that matter, he was not a Roman, either. HE WAS A HOME GROWN REVOLUTIONARY TIRED OF THE ROMAN AND JEWISH BULLSHIT.
#11. To: redleghunter (#8)
the geography and historical facts of the Gospel writers are confirmed by archaeology
A single contemporaneous, credible account of the existence of a Jesus of Nazareth would put the whole issue to bed.
As yet, I haven't heard of one.
However, all the evidence is not in.
Recently, a synagogue where Jesus preached was said to have been discovered. I don't know what, if any, records are typically kept in synagogues but if any names are recorded, I would expect Jessus of Nazereth to be among them.
There are three kinds of people in the world: those that can add and those that can't
#12. To: buckeroo (#10)
Jesus was a Zealot.
I'm not much of an Aslan devotee.
There are three kinds of people in the world: those that can add and those that can't
#13. To: cranky (#12)
Whether you want to believe faerie tales or not is not an issue; the legendary "JESUS" is a myth, as written in the Holy Bible irrespective of version or origin.
Jesus was a zealot; he was the revolutionary strength that later crumbled the Roman Empire. Unfortunately for the world, the rumours became "truth." Then again, that is the reason for no writings before or during Jesus' time on Earth. All writings occurred after his death; most of were 100 years afterwards.
#14. To: buckeroo (#13)
Buckeroo. The things you said are only opinions. You made a decision not to believe in your past. Because of that decision you now base your beliefs on that. Even when contrary evidence is introduced. You will ignore it because you have told your brain to discount it.
Every reaction you have to Gods word is now dismissed by you because of the decision you made way back whenever.
I'll admit the opposite is basically true for Christians. We chose to believe and because we do we might not consider some things. Because it contradicts the decision we already made to believe.
#15. To: cranky (#0)
'Jesus is a MYTH'
People need myths to help them endure the trials of life and to make them believe there is ultimate compensation for injustice.
#16. To: cranky (#0)
Yearly Easter attack. Very predicable.
#17. To: buckeroo (#13)
Jesus was a zealot; he was the revolutionary strength that later crumbled the Roman Empire.
Barabas was a zealot. Jesus was against revolt.
#18. To: cranky (#0)
There are many people who want to think that Jesus is only a myth. They also want to think that Hell is only a myth. It would be most unfortunate for them if they are wrong.
#19. To: cranky, Vicomte13 (#11)
A single contemporaneous, credible account of the existence of a Jesus of Nazareth would put the whole issue to bed.As yet, I haven't heard of one.
I think we have been down this road again.
It was the 1st Century AD. Rome had no peers. The empire wrote the history according to Caesar.
So actually having 27 books in the NT era (1st century AD) with multiple authors giving detailed accounts of the area, government and customs IS the contemporaneous evidence. The NT was written with Christians as a minority religion, hated and persecuted by the Empire.
To dismiss these accounts as not evidence, we could deny Caesar never wrote anything.
"“Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. He is not here; for He is risen, as He said." (Matthew 28:5,6)
#20. To: Don (#18)
There are many people who want to think that Jesus is only a myth. They also want to think that Hell is only a myth. It would be most unfortunate for them if they are wrong.
The atheist approach is to impeach the star witness. To suppress the evidence before a question is launched.
"“Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek Jesus who was crucified. He is not here; for He is risen, as He said." (Matthew 28:5,6)
#21. To: A K A Stone (#14)
Buckeroo. The things you said are only opinions. You made a decision not to believe in your past. Because of that decision you now base your beliefs on that. Even when contrary evidence is introduced. You will ignore it because you have told your brain to discount it.
Very weird commentary. As a recommendation, s_l_o_w d_o_w_n so that your publick forum may capture your opinion.
Every reaction you have to Gods word is now dismissed by you because of the decision you made way back whenever.
Too phunney; where has God's Word been revealed?
I'll admit the opposite is basically true for Christians. We chose to believe and because we do we might not consider some things. Because it contradicts the decision we already made to believe.
Be objective about all things in life, Stone. Don't agree with anything.
#22. To: redleghunter (#20)
They also wish to prove the Book of Genesis wrong. If they can prove the foundation of the Bible wrong, the rest is wrong.
#23. To: Don (#22)
There is no "proof" about the Biblical "Genesis." Sorry about your faith into an-unknown region.
#24. To: buckeroo (#23)
There is no "proof" about the Biblical "Genesis." Sorry about your faith into an-unknown region.
If there was no fossil record. (That is what you would expect to see if there really was a flood as described in Genesis) You could point out that if the flood was true where are all the fossils? But you can't say that. You can only say the fact that there are fossils doesn't prove Genesis. But you can't say "See Genesis is incorrect there are no dead things buried in mud".
You don't consider the truth of these words. Because of decisions you have made in the past to discount the Bible and not take it at its word.
#25. To: cranky, Easter Bunny athiests (#0)
San Francisco based author
A Frisco atheist, believes in the easter bunny, but Jesus is a "myth"....
The D&R terrorists hate us because we're free, to vote second party
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul#26. To: Don (#18)
There are many people who want to think that Jesus is only a myth. They also want to think that Hell is only a myth. It would be most unfortunate for them if they are wrong.
Ah, Christian love. There's no love like Christian love.
#27. To: cranky (#0)
Major views of Jesus:
Christian view -- he was the son of God who died on the cross to either pay for our sins (western view) or free us from death (eastern view).
Muslim view -- he was the son of God and a major profit.
Jewish view #1 -- he was a real historical figure and a rotten heretic.
Jewish view #2 -- he was a figment of Paul's imagination.
#28. To: cranky, ALL (#0) (Edited)
I am always amazed when I hear ignorance crowing from the rooftops that Jesus Christ was just a myth and that the historical evidence does not support his existence. What does the evidence show?
Firstly, we have 5800 handwritten manuscripts of the Greek New Testament. These manuscripts predate the Gutenberg press. Most of these 5800 manuscripts are from the Middle Ages, however only a few hundred reach back into great antiquity. In fact, we have four dozen manuscripts that date to the year 300 A.D. or earlier. These are the most important manuscripts. We have one recently discovered manuscript which has been dated 80 A.D. from the Gospel of Mark.
The New Testament manuscripts more than favorably compare to any other works from ancient history. Take as an example Julius Caesar and his Gallic War, which he composed in 50 BC. All we have are 10 fairly well preserved manuscripts, which date to 850 A.D. the oldest one is 900 years remove from when he wrote the original.
How about Livy, the Roman historian? We think he was born around 59 BC and died around A.D. 17. He wrote Roman History which about one third survives. Of the one-third that survives, books 3, 4, 5, and 6-- the oldest manuscript was written about A.D. 350. In other words, it’s more than 300 years removed from the time when he originally wrote it and it is even complete.
How about Tacitus, the Roman historian, author of Annals and Histories, written sometime around A.D. 110 or 115? The oldest manuscripts of these date to the 9th and 11th centuries A.D. In other words, it’s more 800 and 1,000 years after the original.
Furthermore, the quality of the New Testament manuscripts is excellent. In looking at them, we see that they are neatly copied by professional hands. They are not sloppy. They’re not illegible. They’re not full of misspellings, medical errors, and other types of mistakes. On the whole they are very neatly done.
If we’re going to question the existence of Jesus Christ, then we need the question the existence of other historical figures for which there is far less historical evidence. However, that would be insane.
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
#29. To: redleghunter (#19)
A single contemporaneous, credible account of the existence of a Jesus of Nazareth would put the whole issue to bed. As yet, I haven't heard of one.
I think we have been down this road again.
Shroud and Oviedo Cloth.
#30. To: rlk, ALL (#15)
Negative criticism either neglects or minimizes the role of apostles and eyewitnesses who recorded the events. Of the four Gospel writers, Matthew, Mark, and John were definitely eyewitnesses of the events they report. Luke was a contemporary and careful historian (Luke 1:1–4; see Acts). Indeed, every book of the New Testament was written by a contemporary or eyewitness of Christ. Even such critics as the “Death-of-God” theologian John A. T. Robinson admit that the Gospels were written between 40 and 65 (Robinson, 352), during the life of eyewitnesses.
But if the basic New Testament documents were composed by eyewitnesses, then much of destructive criticism fails. It assumes the passage of much time while “myths” developed. Studies have revealed that it takes two generations for a myth to develop (Sherwin-White, 190).
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
#31. To: cranky (#0)
Myths? It incorrectly assumes that the New Testament stories are like folklore and myth. There is a vast difference between the simple New Testament accounts of miracles and the embellished myths that did arise during the second and third centuries A.D., as can be seen by comparing the accounts. New Testament writers explicitly disavow myths. Peter declared: “For we did not follow cleverly devised tales (mythos) when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty” (2 Peter 1:16). Paul also warned against belief in myths (1 Tim. 1:4; 4:7; 2 Tim. 4:4; Titus 1:14).
One of the most telling arguments against the myth view was given by C. S. Lewis:
First then, whatever these men may be as Biblical critics, I distrust them as critics. They seem to lack literary judgment, to be imperceptive about the very quality of the texts they are reading . . . If he tells me that something in a Gospel is legend or romance, I want to know how many legends and romances he had read, how well his palate is trained in detecting them by the flavour; not how many years he has spent on that Gospel . . . I have been reading poems, romances, vision-literature, legends, myths all my life. I know what they are like. I know that not one of them is like this. [Lewis, 154–55]
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
#32. To: kenh (#26)
Would you say it is love if Christians ignored the "Hell-Bound" and simply laughed at them? Would it make you feel better if Christians were silent?
#33. To: buckeroo (#23)
You have entered into the area called Faith. However, you should do a little research into Biblical Archeology just for the heck of it.
#34. To: buckeroo (#13)
Whether you want to believe faerie tales or not is not an issue; the legendary "JESUS" is a myth, as written in the Holy Bible irrespective of version or origin.
If that satisfies you that's fine with me.
There are three kinds of people in the world: those that can add and those that can't
#35. To: cranky (#34)
Whether you want to believe faerie tales or not is not an issue; the legendary "JESUS" is a myth, as written in the Holy Bible irrespective of version or origin.
Ignorance shouting from the rooftops.
“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org
#36. To: GarySpFC (#28)
If we’re going to question the existence of Jesus Christ, then we need the question the existence of other historical figures for which there is far less historical evidence.
That's actually a very good idea. It would be interesting to see how many could withstand the scrutiny.
There are three kinds of people in the world: those that can add and those that can't
#37. To: rlk (#15)
People need myths to help them endure the trials of life and to make them believe there is ultimate compensation for injustice.
Perhaps.
But that doesn't explain the disciples that refused to renounce Jesus even when subjected to unbelievable tortures.
At least, not to me.
There are three kinds of people in the world: those that can add and those that can't
#38. To: redleghunter (#19)
It was the 1st Century AD. Rome had no peers. The empire wrote the history according to Caesar.
Actually, for many times in its history, Rome had an official historian.
At least, according to Ronald Mellor in The Historians of Ancient Rome: An Anthology of the Major Writings.
There are three kinds of people in the world: those that can add and those that can't
#39. To: cranko (#27)
Muslim view -- he was the son of God and a major profit.Jewish view #1 -- he was a real historical figure and a rotten heretic.
Jewish view #2 -- he was a figment of Paul's imagination.
Muslims don't consider Jesus to be Gods son. They just consider him a lying prophet.
Jews have many different views. The apostles were Jews. I bet you didn't even know that.
#40. To: Don (#32)
Would you say it is love if Christians ignored the "Hell-Bound" and simply laughed at them?
No such luck! There's simply too much secular gain to be had by preaching the mythology of Hellfire to ever give it up.
#41. To: A Pole, Vicomte13 (#16)
Yearly Easter attack. Very predicable.
Indeed.
My take on Jesus is that he was from a royal - but poor - bloodline. That is not that hard to believe since many royal families have poorer relations that are removed from the throne by so many cousins, etc.
What is made clear in the New Testament that is generally looked over is that Jesus is linked to royalty and it seems not one of his enemies disputed this claim. Indeed, the leadership of the era must have been worried Jesus was royal enough. They did not just go after him because he was a street preacher alone. That the NT is citing genealogy is clear evidence that a royal claim is being made. The common peasants don't get a genealogy.
When the Magi came to see a new born Jesus that is significant - those were Persians from Rome's only rival of that era - the Persian empire. If they were sending a diplomatic delegation they were doing so because they knew from Jews living in Babylon who were probably in touch with the Joseph and Mary royal lineage. Joseph and Mary were a dynastic marriage. Again, that does not mean they were rich or poor and were probably poor or getting by even of they had royal blood from David. Remember David started out life as a common sheep herder so he had literally thousands of cousins when he became king so there were many in Judea who could claim royal lineage.
The arrival of the magi made Herod kill Jesus's clan base - the slaughter of the innocent. Jesus left to Egypt not Persia where the Magi were because Herod probably was looking for Jesus' family to escape with the Magi towards Babylon.
Another clue for me is that a young boy Jesus was at the temple conversing with rabbis - now we can say Jesus as a young boy was a genius and that is why the rabbis tolerated a young boy conversing with them but it is clear Jesus has a duel message when he says he was at his Father's house. God's temple was also built by his ancestor and the rabbis knew Jesus was from the line of David and that made him a curiosity.
When Jesus entered Jerusalem it is clear people honored him as a royal dignitary from the house of David arriving into the city.
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