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Religion
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Title: Indiana religion law is Jim Crow of our time
Source: Cincinnati.com
URL Source: http://www.cincinnati.com/story/opi ... on-law-jim-crow-time/70617014/
Published: Mar 29, 2015
Author: Ryan Messer
Post Date: 2015-03-29 04:44:12 by Willie Green
Keywords: None
Views: 29055
Comments: 127

The arguments for Indiana’s Religious Freedom Restoration Act arguments are strikingly similar to the arguments for racial discrimination some 50 years ago. Then, the nation debated whether it was right and just for someone to be barred from service at a lunch counter because of the color of his or her skin. Astonishingly, here we are again, having to combat arguments that it should be legal to bar someone from the same lunch counter based on the gender of the person they love.

Let’s tell it like it is: The so-called Religious Freedom Restoration Act is the Jim Crow legislation of our time. Today, African-Americans are protected from discrimination of this kind – and that’s exactly how it should be in the Land of the Free. Alas, LGBT people enjoy no such protection under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, but at least always had trusted their home state legislatures and governors not to turn on them.

I take this personally because, as of Thursday, my family and I are not protected from discrimination when we visit family and friends in the state of my birth. This is real and wrong and grieves me deeply.

The passage of this discriminatory legislation brings back painful memories in Cincinnati of a charter amendment, commonly known as Article XII, that prohibited City Council from passing any ordinance that would have granted LGBT people equal protection under the law. It was a sorry moment in our city’s history – one in which an entire class of people was singled out for non-protection.

The city’s image was damaged throughout the country, and the economic impact was significant, with conventions being canceled and prestigious companies choosing not to do business in our city. I was a resident of Cincinnati at the time, and the passage of the charter amendment created a cloud over the city that ultimately contributed to my decision to leave. I wasn’t alone. Many people I knew moved to cities that they viewed as more welcoming: Chicago, Atlanta, San Diego. I moved to New York.

Fortunately, the citizens of Cincinnati rediscovered their essential instinct for justice and repealed Article XII, and I moved back as soon as I could. Cincinnati now is seen as one of those welcoming cities – one dramatically different from what it was. Did we fall into the dream that the rest of American had taken that journey with us? If so, we’ve had a rude awakening.

Now I have to question where in Indiana my family can go without discrimination. Can we visit the Indianapolis Children’s Museum? Will a hotel turn us away? Would we be allowed to buy a cupcake at a bakery? If you can, put yourself in our shoes for a moment you can see how unsettling and infuriating this situation is.

Maybe the good people of Indiana will come back to their senses as the good people of Cincinnati did some years ago. While they’re pondering what they’ve done, we Cincinnatians should contact the convention organizers who have announced they will pull their meetings out of Indiana and let them know that they are heartily welcome in the Queen City.

We should work with the business leaders who have decided not to expand in Indiana and let them know that they are very welcome to locate in our Ohio and Kentucky counties. And we certainly should let all the talented Hoosiers who happen to be LGBT know that they are welcome to live, work, love and play here.

Indiana may have lost its sense of justice and good sense for a while but the rest of us understand the human and business cases for diversity and inclusion. Let’s cash in on the progress we’ve made in Cincinnati and elevate our status as a city that welcomes diversity of all kinds and declines to discriminate against any of our citizens.

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 111.

#6. To: Willie Green (#0)

"Then, the nation debated whether it was right and just for someone to be barred from service at a lunch counter because of the color of his or her skin. Astonishingly, here we are again, having to combat arguments that it should be legal to bar someone from the same lunch counter based on the gender of the person they love."

I agree. Let's not screw around. Let's settle this once and for all.

The nation should debate whether the owner of a private business has the constitutionally protected right to bar anyone from service for any reason.

Refusing someone service at a lunch counter has nothing to do with interstate commerce.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-03-29   9:59:34 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: misterwhite (#6)

The nation should debate whether the owner of a private business has the constitutionally protected right to bar anyone from service for any reason.

We can debate it.

My answer is: the owner of a private business does not have the constitutionally protected right to bar anyone from service for any reason.

That's what our law currently is, and I expect that it will upheld.

In particular, owners of private business have no constitutional right to bar anyone from service on the basis of the person's race, ethnicity or religion.

If you're going to open your doors to public commerce, you can profit from access to the stream of commerce, but there are certain things you cannot do. And forbidding blacks, Hispanics, Muslims or Jews (or Catholics, or Protestants) from using those services is the most historically important of them.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-30   16:07:55 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: Vicomte13 (#70)

My answer is: the owner of a private business does not have the constitutionally protected right to bar anyone from service for any reason.

Yes they certainly do.

Does a church have a right to tell someone to leave?

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-03-30   21:09:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: A K A Stone (#83)

Does a church have a right to tell someone to leave?

In general yes. If it's asking people to leave because they are black, no.

Because blacks were deprived of their rights for over two centuries, they are a special case. Whites lost their rights to discriminate against them.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-31   8:47:53 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: Vicomte13 (#86)

Does a church have a right to tell someone to leave? In general yes. If it's asking people to leave because they are black, no.

Does a black church have a right to ask someone to leave because they are white?

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-03-31   9:30:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: A K A Stone (#87)

Does a black church have a right to ask someone to leave because they are white?

No. But if they did it, there would be no effective prosecution.

The problem in our history was not whites being deprived of their rights by blacks but the reverse, and so the laws, vigilance and force is directed that way.

It will be a couple of generations before this ceases to be the case.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-31   9:33:46 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: Vicomte13 (#88)

The problem in our history was not whites being deprived of their rights by blacks but the reverse, and so the laws, vigilance and force is directed that way.

Affirmative action violates the right of White people and Asians. Probably others too.

So to correct that. If you were consistent. There should be set asides for whites to get jobs because they are white.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-03-31   9:39:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: A K A Stone (#90)

Affirmative action violates the right of White people and Asians. Probably others too.

So to correct that. If you were consistent. There should be set asides for whites to get jobs because they are white.

Not happening.

Blacks were enslaved until 1865, and they were forcibly held down until the 1960s. The lack of capital to start out with was a legacy of slavery.

Immigrants often lacked capital, but THEY could get jobs. Blacks were excluded from jobs, so they were not able to build up the capital either, for a century after slavery.

The segregationists, using the color bar at hiring, effectively maintained an economic segregation.

Also, the method of public funding has always ensured that poor areas in America have relatively crappy schools, and therefore, less opportunity.

This has always meant that Blacks had less opportunity because of structural restraints imposed on them in America that were never imposed on other immigrants.

A little less than half of the black population of America were born when segregation was still legal and enforced. This is not ancient history.

Therefore, to overcome this legacy of enforced evil against blacks, there is an enforced favoritism towards blacks in hiring. Slavery and segregation were enforced by law, and the antidote to the persistent economic effects from slavery and segregation are enforced by law.

Is it "unfair"? Sure. It's unfair to whites and Asians and others who didn't participate in segregation. So, what are the alternatives? Saying "tough luck" about the economic overhang of slavery and segregation will not cut it.

I suppose that, instead of hiring quotas, we could simply go to a system of transfer payments, to give the Blacks capital directly, as opposed to having them work for at jobs like immigrants have always happy.

That approach seems more radical, and is likely to raise resistance among whites and others who otherwise understand the historical evils that America imposed on Blacks.

We're willing to use the power of the law, through Affirmative Action, to get the employment levels that get the cash flow, to raise up the black middle class so that it will eventually be self-sustaining. That's acceptable. Wholesale transfer payments would be too immediately expensive and is, therefore, unacceptable.

You're not going to accept any of it. The opposition entrenched long ago. But it was always allied with the segregationists anyway, and offers nothing but leaving the Blacks in the squalor that America forced them down into.

So the debate on this is over. Once again it is a matter of brute force political power being applied across an irreconcilable divide. That divide was cut there by whites hellbent on slavery and segregation. American slavery and segregation lasted about 350 years. It's been 50 years since the Civil Rights Act. Affirmative Action and the countermeasures to reverse the damage done by Slavery and segregation probably won't last another 300 years. But the built in systemic disadvantages of blacks are still there, still visible.

Indeed, with the rise of police abuse of EVERYBODY, what is very likely to happen is that the disproportionate police abuse of blacks, which is rampant, will be the next battlefield, and it will be upon THAT battlefield that the police are finally brought to their knees and have a boot put on their neck.

And that will, long term, benefit everybody.

Of course the allies of the segregationists will never concede anything. So the debate is over. It's really just a matter of pure power now. My side won the Civil War. We won the segregation fight. We imposed Affirmative Action, and we're probably going to start tearing apart police departments and stripping away power from the police because they're abusing Blacks disproportionately. Some assholes don't get the message. So we're going to have to draw the sword and beat another set down.

And keep on doing it. Slavery and segregation were maintained by brute force against blacks. It was unfair and the slavers and segregationists didn't give a shit. Affirmative Action and stripping away the legal right to discriminate against Blacks, in particular, may be unfair in an abstract sense, but given the history, we who have imposed these measures do not care that the segregationists think its unfair any more than they cared about their unfairness.

It's Victor's Justice. It's necessary. The next target are the police. They abuse everybody now, but it is their abuse of blacks, in particular, that allows the full might of the federal government to be brought to bear to rewrite local police and prison rules. And you can bet your sweet bippy that reform in that direction is coming, and will keep on coming.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-31   10:45:59 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: Vicomte13 (#92) (Edited)

Blacks were enslaved until 1865, and they were forcibly held down until the 1960s. The lack of capital to start out with was a legacy of slavery.

I'm a little tired of hearing this millennial like excuse. It's been 150 years since slavery... and the highest elected political position is held by a black man. To Wit; THEY HAVE EQUALITY... and any special considerations towards any race will only be a contributing factor towards that races ability to evolve with modern day skills to compete with other races.

Affirmative action is like welfare. If used past only what's needed, the recipient starts to become dependent upon it.

A business owners right to do business with whom they want should out trump anyone's feelings. That's the bottom line here. The issue needs to be solved by capitalism... not legislating laws to appeal to weak thin skinned sheeple.

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-04-01   6:51:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#103. To: GrandIsland (#98)

"Affirmative action is like welfare."

The KKK couldn't have come up with a better program.

With affirmative action, every job, promotion, position, enrollment, etc. awarded to a black is looked upon as being issued solely because of skin color, not qualifications.

How else do you explain that every company in America now has racially diversified employees in almost the exact percentages as the population? Pure chance?

Does the government think that people wouldn't notice? And heaven forbid if the black fails at the task. It simply affirms what people thought all along.

Worst program ever.

misterwhite  posted on  2015-04-01   9:57:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#111. To: misterwhite (#103)

How else do you explain that every company in America now has racially diversified employees in almost the exact percentages as the population? Pure chance?

...

Worst program ever.

And this is even true in Atlanta, Georgia and Montgomery, Alabama.

Most effective program ever.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-04-01   12:39:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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