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Obama Wars
See other Obama Wars Articles

Title: How Thomas Jefferson would have handled ISIS
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/04/polit ... st-war-on-terror-barbary-isis/
Published: Mar 22, 2015
Author: VxH
Post Date: 2015-03-22 17:03:29 by VxH
Keywords: None
Views: 12761
Comments: 36

The plot sounds like something plucked from today's headlines: foreign hostages, terrorism, presidential power and American diplomatic relations with the Middle East.

But the nation's first war on terror was waged by Thomas Jefferson, not George W. Bush or Barack Obama. In place of al Qaeda or ISIS, Jefferson was fighting the Barbary pirates.

In Jefferson's time, European powers conceded to terrorism by paying annual tribute and ransom to groups like the Barbary pirates, according to Robert F. Turner, co-founder of the Center for National Security Law and professor of American Foreign Policy.

Once the American colonies gained independence from Britain, their ships were left without protection from piracy at sea. As American commerce began to increase, the Barbary states targeted American merchant vessels that traveled the seas without a strong naval defense.

Ransom payments

Jefferson believed paying ransom to terrorist organizations was a sign of weakness as a nation....

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#1. To: All (#0)

Que the Jefferson-hating WallTards in 5..4..3..

VxH  posted on  2015-03-22   17:04:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: VxH (#0)

Jefferson is long dead, I am alive, what I would do is use tactical nukes.

BobCeleste  posted on  2015-03-22   17:13:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: BobCeleste (#2)

what I would do is use tactical nukes.

I don't see where that would be inconsistent with Jefferson's "eternal hostility":

"I HAVE SWORN UPON THE ALTAR OF GOD ETERNAL HOSTILITY TO EVERY FORM OF TYRANNY OVER THE MIND OF MAN" --Thomas Jefferson

ISIS and Islam are certainly a "tyranny over the mind of man".

VxH  posted on  2015-03-22   17:24:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: VxH (#3)

ISIS and Islam are certainly a "tyranny over the mind of man".

That perspective is limited in scope. It depends on your interpretation of the Qur'an.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-03-22   18:17:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: VxH (#0)

But the nation's first war on terror was waged by Thomas Jefferson...

He did not wage war on terror, he waged war on the Barbary states waging piracy against the United States. War on terror makes as much such as waging war on blitzkrieg in WW2.

nativist nationalist  posted on  2015-03-22   18:36:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: BobCeleste (#2)

September 12th 2001, a day that would live in Moslem infamy. The first response to attacks on America would have been to eliminate any reason to believe that allah was or had been god. Destroy their religion, destroy their reason to wage war. That is how we destroyed Nazi Germany, destroyed the Nazi's. Then again, who really can say if it was as clear cut an attack as OBL and Al Kayda attacking us in the first place? Cue the conspiracy bashing crowd.

jeremiad  posted on  2015-03-22   18:37:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: buckeroo (#4)

It depends on your interpretation of the Qur'an.

When is the objective of Islam not Sharia rule?

NO SALE.

VxH  posted on  2015-03-22   18:55:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: VxH (#7)

When is the objective of Islam not Sharia rule?

When is the objective of some pentecostal luthern church from the Kentucky backwoods not some snake worshipper's self rule? You can't answer the same or similar questions because it is all madeup by charlatans, liars, thieves and cheats.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-03-22   19:00:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: buckeroo (#8) (Edited)

You can't answer the same or similar questions because it is all madeup by charlatans, liars, thieves and cheats.

But the difference between the Kentucky backwoods preacher and ISIS is that the Muslim Brotherhood would establish itself atop state-established coercive powers.

Americans have a choice not to buy what the Kentucky backwoods sheeple fleecer is selling - folks within the purview of ISIS and the Muslim Brotherhood, not so much.

VxH  posted on  2015-03-22   19:08:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: VxH (#9)

But the difference between the Kentucky backwoods and ISIS is that the Muslim Brotherhood would perch itself atop state-established coercive powers.

Not at all. The Kentucky backwood's hicks would have their [sisters] wives bare-footed, pregnant and skinning possum all day in the kitchen listening to some 1950's olde on a 14 transistor radio imported from China.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-03-22   19:13:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: buckeroo (#10) (Edited)

The Kentucky backwood's hicks would have their [sisters] wives bare-footed, pregnant and skinning possum all day

But unlike the ISIS miscreants enslaving and prostituting Yezidi women in Northern Iraq, Kentucky backwoods hicks wouldn't be empowered to impose their desires using coercive government powers under the dictate of a religious state-establishment.

In America, the government's specified purpose is to "SECURE THESE RIGHTS".

So if a woman wants to walk out of the cultural Kentucky backwoods she is free to do so - even if she's wearing SQUEAKY SHOES!

VxH  posted on  2015-03-22   19:32:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: VxH (#11)

Sure they would. They would use their "brother Jethro" and related kindred from the local KKK pep squad to subdue the masses.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-03-22   19:35:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: buckeroo (#12) (Edited)

Not using the legal authority of the state they wouldn't.

VxH  posted on  2015-03-22   19:37:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: VxH (#13)

These groups don't recoginise the authority of any state except their own.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-03-22   19:42:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: VxH (#3)

I don't see where that would be inconsistent with Jefferson's "eternal hostility":

Me neither, but Jefferson is dead, I am alive. If you want to see isis nuked, vote for me, Jefferson is dead.

BobCeleste  posted on  2015-03-22   19:47:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: jeremiad (#6)

September 12th 2001, a day that would live in Moslem infamy. The first response to attacks on America would have been to eliminate any reason to believe that allah was or had been god. Destroy their religion, destroy their reason to wage war. That is how we destroyed Nazi Germany, destroyed the Nazi's. Then again, who really can say if it was as clear cut an attack as OBL and Al Kayda attacking us in the first place? Cue the conspiracy bashing crowd.

I said it then, I'll say it now, tactical nukes are the answer. there is nothing in muslim lands that is worth one toe nail of an American kid, tactical nukes are the answer.

BobCeleste  posted on  2015-03-22   19:48:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: BobCeleste (#15)

Jefferson is dead.

Yeah, but the Republic he and those other ruffians stirred up is still twitching.

{ shoves cage }

Look there, it moved!

VxH  posted on  2015-03-22   19:58:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: buckeroo (#14)

These groups don't recoginise the authority of any state except their own.

How'd that work out again Forrest?

VxH  posted on  2015-03-22   20:01:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: buckeroo (#8)

We all do or should rule ourselves. When we seek to impose our will on another, is when the law should step in and ascertain whether there is the others rights being violated.

jeremiad  posted on  2015-03-22   21:25:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: buckeroo (#14)

You are a person steeped into the bigotry against what you know nothing about. There are more trailer trash "hillbilly" moms and pops in Chicago, NY or LA than in Kentucky or any other state in the USA.

jeremiad  posted on  2015-03-22   21:28:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: jeremiad (#20)

There are plenty of ignorant, toothless, white, dysfuntional, trailer trash, welfare, wasted piles of human flesh in NYS.

You are very correct.

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-03-22   21:43:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: jeremiad (#20)

See right there! They are everywhere around us.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-03-22   22:12:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: VxH (#0)

How Thomas Jefferson would have handled ISIS

Jeffeson could, and would have done nothing. He had the personal spirit, but not the capability. You can't send a few hundred men thousands of miles on sailing vessels to take on an empire.

Today, we have neither the spirit nor the capability. We have no political leadership. Three quarters of our high elected officials are self-serving blow-hard subversives. We have no military leadership. The Pattons and Schwartzkophs have died and been replaced by pussy amateurs sucking up to the politicians. We have little army remaining. We can not expect to tear brainless overweight kids away from their TV sets, or their charity whores at discos, and make soldiers of them. They are permanently soft and useless.

rlk  posted on  2015-03-22   23:43:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: VxH (#1)

He fought the Moslems. That's a fact.

Like our modern Presidents his failure was not to finish them off.

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-23   0:11:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: buckeroo (#8)

Last time I checked snake charming hicks did not hijack aircraft and plow them in towers. They are quite content doing their idiotic tricks.

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-23   0:15:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: buckeroo (#14)

These groups don't recoginise the authority of any state except their own.

Do you have any data to back up your generalizations?

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-23   0:18:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: buckeroo (#12)

Actually it's the Greeks you have to worry about.

All of the ills of the Western world happened because the Greeks lost to the Moslems and had to ring up the Pope to bail them out.

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-23   0:21:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: VxH (#0) (Edited)

Man, are you kidding me?? Jefferson?? TJ was a lot of things, but didn't possess a warrior mentality -- despite dispatching warships to address (and negotiate with) Barbary Pirates.

Now how would Andrew Jackson have handled ISIS??

Teddy Roosevelt? Ike? Reagan? In the latter case, I'd imagine decisively and with gusto.

How would Jefferson have handled a majority Democratic Congress as had Reagan? His strengths and temperament didn't match Reagan's in effectively handled and finessing a huge party who politically opposed him.

Hmmm...How would Jefferson have explained his slaves to the Congressional Black Caucus and the NAACP?

*snicker*

Liberator  posted on  2015-03-23   4:14:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: redleghunter (#26)

Don't expect a cogent answer.

Liberator  posted on  2015-03-23   4:18:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: redleghunter, VxH (#24)

He fought the Moslems. That's a fact.

Like our modern Presidents his failure was not to finish them off.

Well, he rather engaged them.

We'd have to define "modern Presidents" as well. Would post 9/11 be our time frame? Or, rather since Poppy Bush?

It could be argued that NO such long-term effective "doctrine" was implemented by any of the Presidents since Reagan, other than creating a giant mess (include Carter as part of that mess), while actually allowing radical Islam to proliferate, then invade and set up shop in the USA.

Reagan's approach was to speak softly and carry a HUGE baseball bat. Which is why after the ill-fated Lebanon barracks attack took place, no other organized Muzzie "incidents" took place during his peaceful eight years.

Liberator  posted on  2015-03-23   4:27:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Liberator, redleghunter, VxH (#30)

He and Madison fought them with the Navy they had (to paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld) . In the end they achieved their goal of ending the taking of American ships for ransom.

He and Madison fought them with the Navy they had (to paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld) . In the end they achieved their goal of ending the taking of American ships for ransom.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

tomder55  posted on  2015-03-23   8:00:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: BobCeleste (#16)

" I said it then, I'll say it now, tactical nukes are the answer. there is nothing in muslim lands that is worth one toe nail of an American kid, tactical nukes are the answer. "

I fully agree Bob. I said at the time, that el jorgeo busho should have done that right off. Trouble was, he was controlled by the globalist, NWO CFR, and the Saudis were their buddies.

Brute force is the only thing the muzzies understand. They pushed the wimp Carter around, but were scared of Reagan. They do not fear Ovomit, since he is one of them. We need a man in the WH, not a punk.

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Stoner  posted on  2015-03-23   8:35:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: tomder55 (#31)

He and Madison fought them with the Navy they had (to paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld) . In the end they achieved their goal of ending the taking of American ships for ransom.

After paying ransom for several years and failing to flex enough muscle, the US Navy finally did accomplish its goal.

I'm at a loss as to why America has dealt with ANY Muslim commerce, culture, or nation since. Never mind, importing the Koraniacs, and embedding them into our culture. Their End Game has remained the same since the year 600 AD.

Liberator  posted on  2015-03-23   9:38:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: redleghunter (#26)

Do you have any data to back up your generalizations?

Yes.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-03-23   21:43:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: redleghunter (#27)

Actually it's the Greeks you have to worry about.

All of the ills of the Western world happened because the Greeks lost to the Moslems and had to ring up the Pope to bail them out.

Get it straight before you sound off with off the wall errata. It was the Italians that lost Rome and then the Christians moved right on-in to the Vatican.

buckeroo  posted on  2015-03-23   21:46:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: tomder55, Liberator, redleghunter, VxH (#31)

He and Madison fought them with the Navy they had (to paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld) . In the end they achieved their goal of ending the taking of American ships for ransom.

He and Madison fought them with the Navy they had (to paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld) . In the end they achieved their goal of ending the taking of American ships for ransom.

The US Marines hired Greek mercenaries to fight the Barbaries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Derne

Pericles  posted on  2015-03-23   21:53:41 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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