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Obama Wars Title: How Thomas Jefferson would have handled ISIS The plot sounds like something plucked from today's headlines: foreign hostages, terrorism, presidential power and American diplomatic relations with the Middle East. But the nation's first war on terror was waged by Thomas Jefferson, not George W. Bush or Barack Obama. In place of al Qaeda or ISIS, Jefferson was fighting the Barbary pirates. In Jefferson's time, European powers conceded to terrorism by paying annual tribute and ransom to groups like the Barbary pirates, according to Robert F. Turner, co-founder of the Center for National Security Law and professor of American Foreign Policy. Once the American colonies gained independence from Britain, their ships were left without protection from piracy at sea. As American commerce began to increase, the Barbary states targeted American merchant vessels that traveled the seas without a strong naval defense. Ransom payments Jefferson believed paying ransom to terrorist organizations was a sign of weakness as a nation.... Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest Que the Jefferson-hating WallTards in 5..4..3..
#2. To: VxH (#0) Jefferson is long dead, I am alive, what I would do is use tactical nukes.
#3. To: BobCeleste (#2) what I would do is use tactical nukes.
I don't see where that would be inconsistent with Jefferson's "eternal hostility": "I HAVE SWORN UPON THE ALTAR OF GOD ETERNAL HOSTILITY TO EVERY FORM OF TYRANNY OVER THE MIND OF MAN" --Thomas Jefferson ISIS and Islam are certainly a "tyranny over the mind of man".
#4. To: VxH (#3) ISIS and Islam are certainly a "tyranny over the mind of man". That perspective is limited in scope. It depends on your interpretation of the Qur'an.
#5. To: VxH (#0) But the nation's first war on terror was waged by Thomas Jefferson... He did not wage war on terror, he waged war on the Barbary states waging piracy against the United States. War on terror makes as much such as waging war on blitzkrieg in WW2.
#6. To: BobCeleste (#2) September 12th 2001, a day that would live in Moslem infamy. The first response to attacks on America would have been to eliminate any reason to believe that allah was or had been god. Destroy their religion, destroy their reason to wage war. That is how we destroyed Nazi Germany, destroyed the Nazi's. Then again, who really can say if it was as clear cut an attack as OBL and Al Kayda attacking us in the first place? Cue the conspiracy bashing crowd.
#7. To: buckeroo (#4) It depends on your interpretation of the Qur'an. When is the objective of Islam not Sharia rule? NO SALE.
#8. To: VxH (#7) When is the objective of Islam not Sharia rule? When is the objective of some pentecostal luthern church from the Kentucky backwoods not some snake worshipper's self rule? You can't answer the same or similar questions because it is all madeup by charlatans, liars, thieves and cheats.
#9. To: buckeroo (#8) (Edited) You can't answer the same or similar questions because it is all madeup by charlatans, liars, thieves and cheats. But the difference between the Kentucky backwoods preacher and ISIS is that the Muslim Brotherhood would establish itself atop state-established coercive powers. Americans have a choice not to buy what the Kentucky backwoods sheeple fleecer is selling - folks within the purview of ISIS and the Muslim Brotherhood, not so much.
#10. To: VxH (#9) But the difference between the Kentucky backwoods and ISIS is that the Muslim Brotherhood would perch itself atop state-established coercive powers. Not at all. The Kentucky backwood's hicks would have their [sisters] wives bare-footed, pregnant and skinning possum all day in the kitchen listening to some 1950's olde on a 14 transistor radio imported from China.
#11. To: buckeroo (#10) (Edited) The Kentucky backwood's hicks would have their [sisters] wives bare-footed, pregnant and skinning possum all day But unlike the ISIS miscreants enslaving and prostituting Yezidi women in Northern Iraq, Kentucky backwoods hicks wouldn't be empowered to impose their desires using coercive government powers under the dictate of a religious state-establishment. In America, the government's specified purpose is to "SECURE THESE RIGHTS". So if a woman wants to walk out of the cultural Kentucky backwoods she is free to do so - even if she's wearing SQUEAKY SHOES!
#12. To: VxH (#11) Sure they would. They would use their "brother Jethro" and related kindred from the local KKK pep squad to subdue the masses.
#13. To: buckeroo (#12) (Edited) Not using the legal authority of the state they wouldn't.
#14. To: VxH (#13) These groups don't recoginise the authority of any state except their own.
#15. To: VxH (#3) I don't see where that would be inconsistent with Jefferson's "eternal hostility": Me neither, but Jefferson is dead, I am alive. If you want to see isis nuked, vote for me, Jefferson is dead.
#16. To: jeremiad (#6) September 12th 2001, a day that would live in Moslem infamy. The first response to attacks on America would have been to eliminate any reason to believe that allah was or had been god. Destroy their religion, destroy their reason to wage war. That is how we destroyed Nazi Germany, destroyed the Nazi's. Then again, who really can say if it was as clear cut an attack as OBL and Al Kayda attacking us in the first place? Cue the conspiracy bashing crowd. I said it then, I'll say it now, tactical nukes are the answer. there is nothing in muslim lands that is worth one toe nail of an American kid, tactical nukes are the answer.
#17. To: BobCeleste (#15) Jefferson is dead. Yeah, but the Republic he and those other ruffians stirred up is still twitching. { shoves cage }
Look there, it moved!
#18. To: buckeroo (#14) These groups don't recoginise the authority of any state except their own.
How'd that work out again Forrest?
#19. To: buckeroo (#8) We all do or should rule ourselves. When we seek to impose our will on another, is when the law should step in and ascertain whether there is the others rights being violated.
#20. To: buckeroo (#14) You are a person steeped into the bigotry against what you know nothing about. There are more trailer trash "hillbilly" moms and pops in Chicago, NY or LA than in Kentucky or any other state in the USA.
#21. To: jeremiad (#20) There are plenty of ignorant, toothless, white, dysfuntional, trailer trash, welfare, wasted piles of human flesh in NYS. You are very correct. Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy #22. To: jeremiad (#20) See right there! They are everywhere around us.
#23. To: VxH (#0) How Thomas Jefferson would have handled ISIS Jeffeson could, and would have done nothing. He had the personal spirit, but not the capability. You can't send a few hundred men thousands of miles on sailing vessels to take on an empire. Today, we have neither the spirit nor the capability. We have no political leadership. Three quarters of our high elected officials are self-serving blow-hard subversives. We have no military leadership. The Pattons and Schwartzkophs have died and been replaced by pussy amateurs sucking up to the politicians. We have little army remaining. We can not expect to tear brainless overweight kids away from their TV sets, or their charity whores at discos, and make soldiers of them. They are permanently soft and useless.
#24. To: VxH (#1) He fought the Moslems. That's a fact. Like our modern Presidents his failure was not to finish them off. "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1) #25. To: buckeroo (#8) Last time I checked snake charming hicks did not hijack aircraft and plow them in towers. They are quite content doing their idiotic tricks. "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1) #26. To: buckeroo (#14) These groups don't recoginise the authority of any state except their own. Do you have any data to back up your generalizations? "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1) #27. To: buckeroo (#12) Actually it's the Greeks you have to worry about. All of the ills of the Western world happened because the Greeks lost to the Moslems and had to ring up the Pope to bail them out. "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." (Genesis 1:1) #28. To: VxH (#0) (Edited) Man, are you kidding me?? Jefferson?? TJ was a lot of things, but didn't possess a warrior mentality -- despite dispatching warships to address (and negotiate with) Barbary Pirates. Now how would Andrew Jackson have handled ISIS?? Teddy Roosevelt? Ike? Reagan? In the latter case, I'd imagine decisively and with gusto.
How would Jefferson have handled a majority Democratic Congress as had Reagan? His strengths and temperament didn't match Reagan's in effectively handled and finessing a huge party who politically opposed him. Hmmm...How would Jefferson have explained his slaves to the Congressional Black Caucus and the NAACP? *snicker*
#29. To: redleghunter (#26) Don't expect a cogent answer.
#30. To: redleghunter, VxH (#24) He fought the Moslems. That's a fact. Well, he rather engaged them. We'd have to define "modern Presidents" as well. Would post 9/11 be our time frame? Or, rather since Poppy Bush? It could be argued that NO such long-term effective "doctrine" was implemented by any of the Presidents since Reagan, other than creating a giant mess (include Carter as part of that mess), while actually allowing radical Islam to proliferate, then invade and set up shop in the USA. Reagan's approach was to speak softly and carry a HUGE baseball bat. Which is why after the ill-fated Lebanon barracks attack took place, no other organized Muzzie "incidents" took place during his peaceful eight years.
#31. To: Liberator, redleghunter, VxH (#30) He and Madison fought them with the Navy they had (to paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld) . In the end they achieved their goal of ending the taking of American ships for ransom. He and Madison fought them with the Navy they had (to paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld) . In the end they achieved their goal of ending the taking of American ships for ransom. Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? #32. To: BobCeleste (#16) " I said it then, I'll say it now, tactical nukes are the answer. there is nothing in muslim lands that is worth one toe nail of an American kid, tactical nukes are the answer. " I fully agree Bob. I said at the time, that el jorgeo busho should have done that right off. Trouble was, he was controlled by the globalist, NWO CFR, and the Saudis were their buddies. Brute force is the only thing the muzzies understand. They pushed the wimp Carter around, but were scared of Reagan. They do not fear Ovomit, since he is one of them. We need a man in the WH, not a punk. Si vis pacem, para bellum #33. To: tomder55 (#31) He and Madison fought them with the Navy they had (to paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld) . In the end they achieved their goal of ending the taking of American ships for ransom. After paying ransom for several years and failing to flex enough muscle, the US Navy finally did accomplish its goal. I'm at a loss as to why America has dealt with ANY Muslim commerce, culture, or nation since. Never mind, importing the Koraniacs, and embedding them into our culture. Their End Game has remained the same since the year 600 AD.
#34. To: redleghunter (#26) Do you have any data to back up your generalizations? Yes.
#35. To: redleghunter (#27) Actually it's the Greeks you have to worry about. Get it straight before you sound off with off the wall errata. It was the Italians that lost Rome and then the Christians moved right on-in to the Vatican.
#36. To: tomder55, Liberator, redleghunter, VxH (#31) He and Madison fought them with the Navy they had (to paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld) . In the end they achieved their goal of ending the taking of American ships for ransom. The US Marines hired Greek mercenaries to fight the Barbaries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Derne
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