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Religion
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Title: Largest Presbyterian Denomination Gives Final Approval for Same-Sex Marriage
Source: NY Times
URL Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/18/u ... or-same-sex-marriage.html?_r=0
Published: Mar 17, 2015
Author: LAURIE GOODSTEIN
Post Date: 2015-03-17 21:11:44 by Willie Green
Keywords: None
Views: 1679
Comments: 11

After three decades of debate over its stance on homosexuality, members of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) voted on Tuesday to change the definition of marriage in the church’s constitution to include same-sex marriage.

The final approval by a majority of the church’s 171 regional bodies, known as presbyteries, enshrines a change recommended last year by the church’s General Assembly. The vote amends the church’s constitution to broaden marriage from being between “a man and a woman” to “two people, traditionally a man and a woman.”

The Presbytery of the Palisades, meeting in Fair Lawn, N.J., put the ratification count over the top on Tuesday on a voice vote. With many presbyteries still left to vote, the tally early Tuesday evening stood at 86 presbyteries in favor and 41 against and one tied.

“Finally, the church in its constitutional documents fully recognizes that the love of gays and lesbian couples is worth celebrating in the faith community,” said the Rev. Brian D. Ellison, executive director of the Covenant Network of Presbyterians, which advocates gay inclusion in the church. “There is still disagreement, and I don’t mean to minimize that, but I think we are learning that we can disagree and still be church together.”

The church, with about 1.8 million members, is the largest of the nation’s Presbyterian denominations, but it has been losing congregations and individual members as it has moved to the left theologically over the past several years. There was a wave of departures in and after 2011, when the presbyteries ratified a decision to ordain gays and lesbians as pastors, elders and deacons, and that may have cleared the way for Tuesday’s vote.

With many conservative Presbyterians who were active in the church now gone, as well as the larger cultural shift toward acceptance of same-sex marriage, the decisive vote moved quickly toward approval, according to those on both sides of the divide.

Plenty of moderates and conservatives, however, have chosen to stay within the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), one of the nation’s historic mainline Protestant denominations, which has its headquarters in Louisville, Ky. Ministers who object will not be required to perform a same-sex marriage.

Paul Detterman, national director of The Fellowship Community, a group of conservatives who have stayed in the church, said: “Our objection to the passage of the marriage amendment is in no way, shape or form anti-gay. It is in no way intended as anything but concern that the church is capitulating to the culture and is misrepresenting the message of Scripture.”

He added, “We definitely will see another wave, a sizable wave, of conservative folks leaving,” but said he and others were staying because “this conversation is dreadfully important to be a part of.”

Other religious denominations that have officially decided to permit their clergy to perform same-sex marriages include the Episcopal Church, the United Church of Christ, the Quakers, the Unitarian Universalist Association of Churches and, in Judaism, the Reform and Conservative movements. The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America left it open for individual ministers to decide.

“I don’t see any further large mainline denominations making the same move,” said Alan Wisdom, a Presbyterian and the interim editor of Theology Matters, a journal for conservative Protestants.

The United Methodist Church, with about 5.5 million members, has been debating same-sex marriage for years, but it includes a growing membership in Africa, where there is little acceptance of gay relationships.

The Presbyterians’ decision on Tuesday will put an end to the ecclesiastical prosecutions and convictions in the last few decades of ministers who broke church law by conducting same-sex marriages.

“Some of us are calling it liberation day,” said the Rev. William Blake Spencer, pastor of Ocean Heights Presbyterian Church in Egg Harbor Township, N.J., who is gay and voted with his presbytery on Tuesday. “It will be the last L.G.B.T.Q. issue that we debate and fight about, and finally our welcome comes without a ‘but’ or an ‘if.’”

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#1. To: Willie Green (#0)

This isn't a christian church.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-03-17   21:15:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Willie Green (#0)

John Knox is unimpressed.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-17   21:18:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Willie Green (#0)

Someone should go to the fake church. Then in the middle of the service. Yell fag church. Then leave.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-03-17   21:20:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Willie Green, A K A Stone, Vicomte13, (#0)

...members of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) voted on Tuesday to change the definition of marriage in the church’s constitution to include same-sex marriage.

Missouri Synod Lutherans would never have made such a vote.

Chuck_Wagon  posted on  2015-03-17   23:19:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: Willie Green, *Religious History and Issues* (#0)

ping

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-03-18   8:58:19 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Willie Green (#0)

" Largest Presbyterian Denomination Gives Final Approval for Same-Sex Marriage "

I grew up in a Presbyterian church, across the street from our house.

Not huge, but a decent sized congregation. It appears the congregation has really shrunk,much smaller now.

I would think this will cause it to shrink even more.

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Stoner  posted on  2015-03-18   11:19:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Stoner, TooConservative, A K A Stone, GarySpFc, Don, Vicomte13 (#6)

I grew up in a Presbyterian church, across the street from our house.

Not huge, but a decent sized congregation. It appears the congregation has really shrunk,much smaller now.

I would think this will cause it to shrink even more.

Smaller congregations usually means there is more accountability.

Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) (PUSA) has been liberal for decades. More and more Reformed churches are leaving this denomination given its liberal and sinful practices.

Not to be confused with the real Presbyterians who will never give in to same sex 'marriage'....Presbyterian Church in America (PCA)

Presbyterian Church in America

If you want a fist fight go up to a PCA congregant and ask him if he is PUSA. Wear body armor:)

I'm sure, even though Baptist, TC has a lot more research on the history.

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-18   12:00:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Willie Green (#0)

“Some of us are calling it liberation day,” said the Rev. William Blake Spencer, pastor of Ocean Heights Presbyterian Church in Egg Harbor Township, N.J., who is gay and voted with his presbytery on Tuesday. “It will be the last L.G.B.T.Q. issue that we debate and fight about, and finally our welcome comes without a ‘but’ or an ‘if.’”

Romans 1:

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four- footed animals and creeping things.

24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-18   12:12:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: redleghunter (#7)

Not to be confused with the real Presbyterians who will never give in to same sex 'marriage'....Presbyterian Church in America (PCA)

Not to mention the smaller but very conservative Orthodox Presbyterians. They definitely punch above their weight class.

We had a poster at TOS who went by the name OrthodoxPresbyterian. He was a riot on religion threads, a lively poster all around.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-18   17:26:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: redleghunter, ALL (#8)

I saw the liberals drive the conservatives out of the UMC in the late fifties and early sixties so they could take over and corrupt the denomination. It's called restructuring the church, and done under the guise of evangelism. If you hear someone quote Lyle Schaller....watch out.

And the words of the LORD are flawless, like silver refined* in a furnace of clay, purified seven times. Psalm 12:6

GarySpFC  posted on  2015-06-14   22:57:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: GarySpFC (#10)

If you hear someone quote Lyle Schaller....watch out.

Thanks Gary. All these churches have one thing in common. They stray from the Word of God and lean unto their own understandings:

Proverbs 3:5-6 King James Version (KJV)

5 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.

Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him cometh my salvation. He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved. (Psalm 62:1-2)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-06-15   8:59:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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