Religion
See other Religion Articles
Title: Should Christians Be Hospitable to Cult Members?
Source:
Grace to You
URL Source: http://www.gty.org/resources/bible- ... ble-to-cult-members?Term=cults
Published: Mar 11, 2015
Author: John MacArthur
Post Date: 2015-03-11 16:41:49 by redleghunter
Keywords: None
Views: 36895
Comments: 144
In verse 10 John sets out one practical application of how to defend the truth: If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house. Hospitality for traveling teachers was common in the culture (cf. Luke 9:1-6; 10:1-12). The prohibition here is not to turn away the ignorant; it does not mean that believers may not invite unbelievers—even those who belong to a cult or false religion—into their midst. That would make giving the truth to them difficult, if not impossible. The point is that believers are not to welcome and provide care for traveling false teachers, who seek to stay in their homes, thereby giving the appearance of affirming what they teach and lending them credibility John’s use of the conjunction ei (if) with an indicative verb indicates a condition that is likely true. Apparently, the lady to whom he wrote had for whatever reason, in the name of Christian fellowship, already welcomed false teachers into her home. It was just such compassionate, well-meaning people that the false teachers sought out (cf. 2 Tim. 3:6); since churches were supposed to be protected by elders who were skilled teachers of the Word (1 Tim. 3:2; Titus 1:9), they should have been less susceptible to the lies propagated by the deceivers. Having established themselves in homes, the false teachers hoped eventually to worm their way into the churches. It is much the same today, as false teaching insidiously invades Christian homes through television, radio, the Internet, and literature. So threatening are these emissaries of Satan that Jo[h]n went on to forbid even giving them a greeting; for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds. Irenaeus relates that the church father Polycarp, when asked by the notorious heretic Marcion, “Do you know me?” replied, “I do know you—the firstborn of Satan” (Against Heresies, 3.3.4). John himself once encountered Cerinthus (another notorious heretic) in a public bathhouse in Ephesus. Instead of greeting him, however, John turned and fled, exclaiming to those with him, “Let us fly, lest even the bath-house fall down, because Cerinthus, the enemy of the truth, is within” (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3.3.4).
Poster Comment:
Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest
Comments (1-29) not displayed.
.
.
.
#30. To: cranko (#27)
Sincere prayer comes from deep private and personal reflection that leads to repentance. Here is an example of Jesus praying out loud. So you are wrong. These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. 4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. 6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. 7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee. 8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me. 9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. 10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them. 11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. 13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. 14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: 23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. 24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world. 25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me. 26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.
Oh I certainly agree... nor would I expect them to grasp Carl Sagan's Cosmos & the Big Bang Theory and the billions of years that it actually took God to create the Universe...
I am most curious what you base that nonsense of billions of years on. Can you explain it or is it something that was spoon fed to you and you never questioned it? The decisions you have made in life have led you to where you are at today. If you had believed the good book and not discounted its teachings you wouldn't be a leftist today. Modify your beliefs. You will then make different decisions. Which will lead you out of the fog that leftists are invariably in.
Jesus is the Son of God who died on the cross to pay for our sins. He was spreading his message of repentance and forgiveness. It's fine and dandy to teach people of Jesus. In fact, we are commanded to do so. But true prayer is not public. It's private and personal between you and God. Yelling PRAISE THE LORD means nothing. It's just showing off to the people in your community.
Yeah, well I'm not very evangelical about it, so I'm not gonna try to convert you to my beliefs, just as I doubt that you'll make much headway trying to convert me...
Yeah it is hard to change someones deeply held long term beliefs. I believe if you took another look with an open mind. If possible. You could change your mind about billions of years.
Sure there are Willie. I just gave you the Scriptural principles held by all Christians. If they don't meet the criteria stated and claim they are Christian then that group is a cult. Now different denominations may claim others are in error, but won't kick them out the door or deny fellowship.
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
Yes he did.
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
It's pretty clear to me... So they are faux Christians in your view?
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
Yes the big three heresies we see today with regards to the Nature of God are a form of Arianism with the JWs, Oneness and even a modern tritheism.
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
Well yes in Scriptures there is the use of metaphorical language. Interpreting according to the grammatical, literal historical method is how the apostles approached interpreting Scriptures. When we do see metaphor used in Scriptures they are usually direct metaphors. That is "A" is like "B". For example Jesus saying He was the bread of life. We know Jesus did not mean He was a loaf of bread. The Living Water. We know Jesus is not literally a well full of water we physically drink. I am the door. Jesus is not a wooden door. These were direct metaphors used to teach a spiritual truth.
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
Yes my friend you put it well.
I can't look what is in their hearts. It's not for me to judge. I can only read that Jesus condemned certain pubic behavior as being inherently corrupt. I was raised that prayer is a personal and private matter. When you pray, it usually doesn't start as being a happy thing. True prayer involves sadness because you realize what a sinner that you are. True prayer results in being renewed, full of the Spirit who is there to keep you on the right path. People who run around screaming PRAISE THE LORD make me very uncomfortable. It's an alien form of Christianity that fails to recognize the horrible trials and tribulations that Jesus suffered. And I won't do it because I believe that Jesus condemns it.
You are confusing a poem like the Song of Solomon with God speaking plainly, Genesis.
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
You'll have to agree that this is a pretty catchy slogan.
I understand your reservations. I think the difference is the Pharisees would publicly show up when the market was busiest and pray at the offering of the morning and evening sacrifice. Which they knew would maximize their display of prayer for all to see. This was not only self centered but self righteousness. Jesus Christ pointed this out in the parable of the Pharisee and the Publican. Contrast this with the selfless and loving worship and public proclamation of the Gospel of Grace we see in Acts. The difference being the focus is on Christ and not self.
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
Osteen is a false prosperity gospel preacher.
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
Where I used to go to church. There was this fat woman. I didn't care for her much because of her attitude. But she would start saying stuff like scl scil la me nooo dooo all ddeee ruuf oorr allleemay. She said she was speaking in tongues. I think she was making it up and wanted to look spiritual to everyone.
The most sincere Christians I have ever met are people who hit the bottom of the barrel and had nowhere else to go. Drug addicts, alcoholics, prostitutes, violent criminals -- people who hit rock bottom and found Christ. Jesus himself hung out with such people. Hitting rock bottom is not a joyful thing. It's a painful experience that causes deep personal reflection. Many Americans all too frequently forget this. More later. Thanks for the discussion.
Like the the Bakkers and Jimmy Swaggart who all ran around PRAISING THE LORD. Oh, but your Church doesn't apply to Matthew 6. I hope that you are thoughtful enough to understand how this all looks to those who are outside the PRAISE THE LORD tradition. A slick haired preacher, a big mega-church... CHA CHING... RING UP THE BUCKS...
I kinda like the high-white sparkling, polished teeth and the sexy wives, myself. Wasn't Tammy Bakker a real looker?
I am not some 5000 year-old nomadic Jewish shepard boy. I'm a modern-day American who is well educated both in the fudamental tenets of my religious faith AND the scientific facts that reveals the mysteries of God's wonderous universe far beyond the comprehension level of illiterate, 5000-year-old-nomads. In revealing Genesis to those nomadic tribes, it wasn't God's purpose to educate them with a complex understanding of cosmology & astrophysics. Nor did he intend the Creation Story to include a detailed explanation of DNA/biochemistry/microbiology & evolution. The Bible and Modern Science are NOT incompatible.
Similarly, when God created the Universe, we know that a "day" didn't mean 24 hours from one sunrise to the next sunrise... but rather hundreds of millions and billions of years as the galaxies and stars and planets gradually unfolded & Life slowly evolved here on Earth.
I think she was making it up and wanted to look spiritual to everyone. And of course since you did not like her, she always had some bad omen for you that only she could know:)
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
What do you mean by that? Oh, I see, you mean the ones with teeth "like a flock of sheep that are even shorn, which came up from the washing; whereof every one bear twins, and none is barren among them."
The most sincere Christians I have ever met are people who hit the bottom of the barrel and had nowhere else to go. Drug addicts, alcoholics, prostitutes, violent criminals -- people who hit rock bottom and found Christ. Jesus himself hung out with such people. Hitting rock bottom is not a joyful thing. It's a painful experience that causes deep personal reflection. Many Americans all too frequently forget this. That is very true. Jesus came to heal the broken hearted and lost. In fact, we are all lost in one way or another. Hitting rock bottom, as you said, is horrible for someone to endure, but may just be the Grace God shows to a person to reveal freedom through Jesus Christ. Only Jesus Christ can break our bonds of sin and death. Hitting rock bottom in my observation is His Grace. People who plod on 'fat and happy' with the world and its traps and convince themselves they don't 'need' God or a Savior and they lift themselves up as their own god.
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
Our day or some undefined day in God's experience. Other scripture indicates that God does not experience a day in the way we do, like a thousand years being as a day to God. Reading about the seven days of creation as though they are 24-hour days on planet earth isn't demonstrably accurate. We like it but that doesn't mean that it is true.
Usually, the "prophet" requires an "interpreter" to tell you what they were babbling about. It's like a crazy mumbo-jumbo version of Simon Says.
Would your post fit on my license plate frame? Or a bumper sticker? IF it did, my car would be keyed in a parking lot in about 20 minutes. Self-proclaimed "gods" don't appreciate that type of "intolerance." ;-)
Willie, Vic has done some exhaustive studies on the above so I pinged him. After day 4, we can logically conclude all days were 24 hour days as the sun, moon and stars were created on day 4. However, even on the first day of creation there is "let there be light" and we see recorded "So the evening and the morning were the first day." We also see much later in Exodus the Israelites confirming a 6 day creation with a one day Sabbath. People like to add in billions of years to fit an unproven scientific theory. It usually makes them comfortable at cocktail parties with liberal atheists.
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
I'm calling BS, Choo-Choo Willie. You don't look a day over 4800 years-old.
It usually makes them comfortable at cocktail parties with liberal atheists. ZING! (My mind is still blown by so-called "intellectuals" who look in a mirror, examine life, then claim they need "evidence" of "God.")
It's that 2-pack-a-day habit I had for many years...
I can't look what is in their hearts. It's not for me to judge. Yet you are doing exactly THAT; JUDGING. SUGGESTION: Turn off your Tee-Bee. Stop re-interpreting the Bible. And give up on ever receiving your refund on that fifty bucks your sent Swaggart back in 1984. Not that *I* am judging *you.* (See how that works?)
Say hey -- the important thing is that you finally quit the smokes. And nowadays, all you need is a parrot on your shoulder, Dr. Hook! (*squawk* "BUILD THE TRAIN TRACKS AND THEY WILL COME!! ARRRRGH!!")
Of which you can then strike up a conversation with your would be vandals and show them: Isaiah 61 King James Version (KJV) 61 The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
Actually, the creation account in Genesis is one that describes most directly the creation of earth and possibly major elements of our solar system. Genesis doesn't speak of other stars, other galaxies, and the wider universe. A real god of this universe would consider Earth a small operation among His vast holdings. Maybe along the lines of the regard you have for for a nice shrub or bush on your property. Jesus did say, "In my Father's house are many mansions"... Who (or what) are in all those other mansions? The Father may be operating on a scale unimaginably larger than we can conceive. Being a little contrarian at times, I always try to assume that He is. We can never make God too big but we often make Him too small.
I like buckeroo. I recall a memorable thread at 4um where the two of us valiantly defended the poor Israeli bulldozer that was so viciously attacked by that invader, Rachel Corrie.
Here is an example of Jesus praying out loud. So you are wrong.... 26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them. Good example.... And recall how Jesus taught the people how to pray to the Father....at His Sermon on the Mount? IN PUBLIC!! That Jesus -- wadda show-off!!
Maybe Isaiah 61: 1-2 could be the bumper-sticker on the right side of the rear bumper. Vandals and cowards aren't usually are caught in the act, or stick around too long :-)
Comments (71 - 144) not displayed.
Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/LatestAs Jesus clearly stated in Mathhew 6, people who pray in public are mostly showing off to impress others.
#31. To: TooConservative (#28)
Look, Willie, it's a translation of ancient tribal Hebrew poetry. Much as you find this passage obscure, these ancient Jews would not really grasp the poetic allusions and devices in Shakespeare's work any more readily.
But that's why we don't read Genesis literally... the ancient Jews were simple people, and God explained Creation to them in terms that they could understand.
#32. To: Willie Green (#31)
Theory and the billions of years that it actually took God to create the Universe...
#33. To: A K A Stone (#30)
Here is an example of Jesus praying out loud. So you are wrong.
#34. To: A K A Stone (#29)
I'm talking about people who don't take Genesis literally for example. Like probably you.
So that's why I seldom discuss this topic and try to stick to more secular issues: energy, transportation, education, economy, etc. etc.
#35. To: Willie Green (#34)
Yeah, well I'm not very evangelical about it, so I'm not gonna try to convert you to my beliefs, just as I doubt that you'll make much headway trying to convert me... So that's why I seldom discuss this topic and try to stick to more secular issues: energy, transportation, education, economy, etc. etc.
#36. To: Willie Green (#9)
Well without casting stones, the problem is that there's no consensus among the various mainstream Christian denominations as to what those doctrines are.
#37. To: Don (#18)
#38. To: cranko (#23)
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. -- Mathhew 6:5
#39. To: TooConservative (#25)
Yet, these same heresies pop up century after century in one form or another.
#40. To: Willie Green, A K A Stone (#26)
#41. To: redleghunter (#40)
We know Jesus did not mean He was a loaf of bread
#42. To: redleghunter (#38)
So they are faux Christians in your view?
#43. To: Willie Green (#31)
#44. To: redleghunter (#0)
#45. To: cranko, A K A Stone (#42)
#46. To: cranko (#44)
#47. To: redleghunter (#46)
#48. To: redleghunter (#45)
(Edited)
#49. To: redleghunter (#46)
(Edited)
Osteen is a false prosperity gospel preacher.
#50. To: cranko (#49)
A slick haired preacher, a big mega-church... CHA CHING... RING UP THE BUCKS...
#51. To: A K A Stone (#32)
I am most curious what you base that nonsense of billions of years on. Can you explain it or is it something that was spoon fed to you and you never questioned it?
The decisions you have made in life have led you to where you are at today. If you had believed the good book and not discounted its teachings you wouldn't be a leftist today.
Modify your beliefs. You will then make different decisions. Which will lead you out of the fog that leftists are invariably in.
I think it's a shame that you have been duped by atheists into thinking that they are.
#52. To: redleghunter (#40)
When we do see metaphor used in Scriptures they are usually direct metaphors. That is "A" is like "B". For example Jesus saying He was the bread of life. We know Jesus did not mean He was a loaf of bread. The Living Water. We know Jesus is not literally a well full of water we physically drink. I am the door. Jesus is not a wooden door. These were direct metaphors used to teach a spiritual truth.
#53. To: A K A Stone (#47)
But she would start saying stuff like scl scil la me nooo dooo all ddeee ruuf oorr allleemay. She said she was speaking in tongues.
#54. To: buckeroo, Willie Green (#50)
I kinda like the high-white sparkling, polished teeth...
#55. To: cranko, Vicomte13, liberator, TooConservative (#48)
#56. To: Willie Green (#52)
Similarly, when God created the Universe, we know that a "day" didn't mean 24 hours from one sunrise to the next sunrise...
#57. To: redleghunter (#53)
And of course since you did not like her, she always had some bad omen for you that only she could know:)
#58. To: redleghunter (#55)
Hitting rock bottom in my observation is His Grace. People who plod on 'fat and happy' with the world and its traps and convince themselves they don't 'need' God or a Savior and they lift themselves up as their own god.
#59. To: Willie Green, Vicomte13, A K A Stone, TooConservative (#52)
Similarly, when God created the Universe, we know that a "day" didn't mean 24 hours from one sunrise to the next sunrise... but rather hundreds of millions and billions of years as the galaxies and stars and planets gradually unfolded & Life slowly evolved here on Earth.
#60. To: Willie Green (#51)
I am not some 5000 year-old nomadic Jewish shepard boy.
#61. To: TooConservative, Gatlin (#54)
Yep, and every time I break wind from the
beans the sound it makes is: "Buckeroo."
#62. To: redleghunter (#59)
People like to add in billions of years to fit an unproven scientific theory.
#63. To: Liberator (#60)
I'm calling BS, Choo-Choo Willie. You don't look a day over 4800 years-old.
hopping around on one leg keeps me fit as a fiddle!
#64. To: cranko, redleghunter. (#42)
So they [those who pray in pubic] are faux Christians in your view?
#65. To: Willie Green (#63)
(Edited)
#66. To: Liberator, cranko (#58)
IF it did, my car would be keyed in a parking lot in about 20 minutes. Self-proclaimed "gods" don't appreciate that type of "intolerance."
#67. To: redleghunter, Vicomte13, Willie Green (#59)
People like to add in billions of years to fit an unproven scientific theory.
#68. To: Willie Green, buckeroo (#61)
Yep, and every time I break wind from the beans the sound it makes is: "Buckeroo."
#69. To: A K A Stone, cranko (#30)
#70. To: redleghunter (#66)
Of which you can then strike up a conversation with your would be vandals and show them...
.
.
.
[Home] [Headlines] [Latest Articles] [Latest Comments] [Post] [Mail] [Sign-in] [Setup] [Help] [Register]