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Religion
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Title: The Two Shall Become One Flesh
Source: First Things
URL Source: https://www.firstthings.com/article ... ne-flesh-reclaiming-marriage-2
Published: Feb 26, 2015
Author: Evangelicals & Catholics Together
Post Date: 2015-02-26 22:04:36 by redleghunter
Ping List: *Religious History and Issues*     Subscribe to *Religious History and Issues*
Keywords: None
Views: 42883
Comments: 194

In the Gospel of St. Mark, the Lord Jesus teaches that “from the beginning of creation ‘God made them male and female.’” He then declares a great and beautiful truth inscribed in creation: “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. So they are no longer two but one flesh” (Mark 10:6–8).

For centuries, Christians have proclaimed these words at weddings, for they express the gift of marriage long recognized by all humanity and acknowledged by men and women of faith: Marriage is the union of a man and a woman. This truth is being obscured, even denied, today. Because of that, the institution of marriage, which is essential to the well-being of society, is being undermined.

As Christians, it is our responsibility to bear witness to the truth about marriage as taught by both revelation and reason—by the Holy Scriptures and by the truths inscribed on the human heart. These age-old truths explain why Christians celebrate ­marriage—the coming-together of a man and woman in a binding union of mutual support—as one of the glories of the human race. Marriage is the primordial human institution, a reality that existed long before the establishment of what we now know as the state.

As the most venerable and reliable basis for domestic happiness, marriage is the foundation of a just and stable society. Yet in our times this institution has been gravely weakened by the sexual revolution and the damage it has done to marriage and the family: widespread divorce; the dramatic increase in out-of-wedlock births; the casual acceptance of premarital sex and cohabitation; and a contraceptive mentality which insists that sex has an arbitrary relation to procreation. In this environment, families fragment, the poor suffer, and children are especially vulnerable and at risk. The decline of marriage culture is evident throughout the world, and where it is evident, the common good is imperiled.

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Poster Comment:

God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. And God blessed them and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply.” (Gen. 1:27–28) Subscribe to *Religious History and Issues*

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#1. To: Vicomte13, A K A Stone, liberator, out damned spot, CZ82, BobCeleste (#0)

Ping

"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-02-26   22:05:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: redleghunter (#0)

In the Gospel of St. Mark

We should soon hear much more about the first century fragments of Mark.

Author: Evangelicals & Catholics Together

Woh, ECT is still around and carrying water for Papa? Not that Papa seems to care any more. Involvement with ECT pretty much finished off the careers of some Religious Right leaders of the Nineties after the pope pulled the rug out from under them.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-27   1:43:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: redleghunter (#1)

But won't Teh Gays say that all they want to do is become one flesh too if only the white hetro patriarchy would let them?

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-27   5:40:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: redleghunter (#0) (Edited)

16 He told her, “Go, call your husband and come back.”

17 “I have no husband,” she replied.

18 Jesus said to her, “You are right when you say you have no husband. The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true.”

Interesting that he says what she has now isn't a marriage, but that she has had 5 marriages before. Do you think she was widowed 5 times? Or did 5 marriages fall apart?

And why did he consider the marriages after the first one to be real marriages when they didn't follow the Devine plan the article lays out.

Biff Tannen  posted on  2015-02-27   7:21:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: redleghunter (#0)

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

The Bible is unconstitutional...
If the gays want to get "married," that's fine by me... It's not as if their fornication will actually lead to procreation and produce a bunch of gay children who outnumber the straights.
Time to move on to more important issues instead of worrying about gays shacking up with each other.

"Some people march to a different drummer — and some people polka."

Willie Green  posted on  2015-02-27   8:09:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Biff Tannen (#4)

16 He told her, “Go, call your husband and come back.”

17 “I have no husband,” she replied.

18 Jesus said to her, “You are right when you say you have no husband. The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true.”

Interesting that he says what she has now isn't a marriage, but that she has had 5 marriages before. Do you think she was widowed 5 times? Or did 5 marriages fall apart?

And why did he consider the marriages after the first one to be real marriages when they didn't follow the Devine plan the article lays out.

You raise a very interesting point, Biff, one that is made all the sharper by the fact that tradition identifies this woman as St. Photini - yes, that's right, SAINT Photini, because she brought the faith to the Samaritans.

The text doesn't tell us much about the reasons for her serial relationships with men, but it does tell us that this flawed human vessel was the vehicle for bringing the message of Christ to her people.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-02-27   9:32:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: Willie Green (#5) (Edited)

I wouldn't want children just because of people like you ... who aren't fit to raise dog - pigs --- could be their foster parents !

If you ... don't use exclamation points --- you should't be typeing ! Commas - semicolons - question marks are for girlie boys !

BorisY  posted on  2015-02-27   11:57:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Biff Tannen (#4)

16 He told her, “Go, call your husband and come back.”

17 “I have no husband,” she replied.

18 Jesus said to her, “You are right when you say you have no husband. The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true.”

Interesting that he says what she has now isn't a marriage, but that she has had 5 marriages before. Do you think she was widowed 5 times? Or did 5 marriages fall apart?

And why did he consider the marriages after the first one to be real marriages when they didn't follow the Devine plan the article lays out.

It is a call by Christ to convict her heart of sin.

To address this properly, we should look at what Jesus Christ said about marriage:

Matthew 19 New King James Version (NKJV)

3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?”

4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

7 They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?”

8 He said to them, “Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.”

"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-02-27   11:59:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Willie Green (#5)

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;

Then why is the SCOTUS forcing a federal solution to what has been a state power since the beginning of our nation?

"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-02-27   12:00:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: redleghunter, tpaine (#9)

Because the 1st Amendment only prohibits CONGRESS from meddling, and SCOTUS ain't Congress.

"Some people march to a different drummer — and some people polka."

Willie Green  posted on  2015-02-27   12:19:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: Willie Green (#5)

The Bible is unconstitutional...

Et tu, Willie? The electrical shock treatments aren't helping.

Time to move on to more important issues instead of worrying about gays shacking up with each other.

Like choo-choo trains?

Liberator  posted on  2015-02-27   12:30:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: Willie Green (#10) (Edited)

Congress can recall the ussc !

Then what !

If you ... don't use exclamation points --- you should't be typeing ! Commas - semicolons - question marks are for girlie boys !

BorisY  posted on  2015-02-27   12:30:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: TooConservative (#3)

But won't Teh Gays say that all they want to do is become one flesh too if only the white hetro patriarchy would let them?

Maybe...one flesh per week.

Big White Bearded Homophobe in the Sky:

VETOED

Liberator  posted on  2015-02-27   12:34:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: Liberator (#11)

Well yes, as a matter of fact, choo-choo trains ARE a lot more important than gay marriage.

"Some people march to a different drummer — and some people polka."

Willie Green  posted on  2015-02-27   12:36:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Willie Green (#10)

Because the 1st Amendment only prohibits CONGRESS from meddling, and SCOTUS ain't Congress.

Next you will be telling me States cannot establish their own church if they want.

"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-02-27   13:41:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: redleghunter (#8)

It is a call by Christ to convict her heart of sin.

Speculation

Biff Tannen  posted on  2015-02-27   17:13:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Biff Tannen (#16)

How so?

"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-02-27   19:39:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: redleghunter (#17)

I don't see any way anyone could know for sure that it was a call to convict of sin. Therefore, to say that's what it was, is speculation.

Biff Tannen  posted on  2015-02-27   20:37:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: redleghunter (#17)

And, anyway, what your verses and my verses show, is that despite His intentions of what He wants marriage to be He recognizes that it works out differently down here on earth. In Moses day he makes allowances for it.

So, give it a rest with all this gay marriage nonsense.

You care about it more than God does.

Meanwhile, there's still hungry kids out there ...

Biff Tannen  posted on  2015-02-27   20:42:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: redleghunter, All (#0)

As Christians, it is our responsibility to bear witness to the truth about marriage as taught by both revelation and reason—by the Holy Scriptures and by the truths inscribed on the human heart.

But as Americans we must also recognize that we live under a secular government by choice and design. And as with every society since the beginning of mankind what may be legal may not always be moral and what may be moral may not always be legal. Would you prefer to live on a Judeo-Christian version of Sharia law?

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-02-27   20:57:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: SOSO (#20)

Would you prefer to live on a Judeo-Christian version of Sharia law?

How'bout just living on biological, natural, fact?

VxH  posted on  2015-02-27   21:45:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: Willie Green (#5)

If the gays want to get "married," that's fine by me...

But it isn't alright to normal people.

What you said is sicko Willie.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-02-27   21:55:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Biff Tannen (#18)

What did Jesus say before the husband comments?

"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-02-27   22:07:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: Biff Tannen (#19)

And, anyway, what your verses and my verses show, is that despite His intentions of what He wants marriage to be He recognizes that it works out differently down here on earth. In Moses day he makes allowances for it.

So, give it a rest with all this gay marriage nonsense.

You care about it more than God does.

Meanwhile, there's still hungry kids out there ...

Feed the hungry kids. My family gladly does so.

But on marriage you have a point. Jesus Christ gave us His standard for marriage. So He is very interested.

If you are claiming Christ had no interest in the woman's relationships with men, then why did He bring it up? Same reason He brought up other people's obstacles to the Kingdom of Heaven.

Jesus Christ never condoned sin. He came to blot out sin.

"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-02-27   22:14:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: SOSO (#20)

Would you prefer to live on a Judeo-Christian version of Sharia law?

Of course not.

What this article points out Christians have a voice in the nation they founded.

"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-02-27   22:16:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: redleghunter (#25)

Of course not.

What this article points out Christians have a voice in the nation they founded.

A voice not the voice.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-02-27   22:22:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: VxH (#21)

How'bout just living on biological, natural, fact?

What is the biological, natural facts about love?

I do not support the gay lifestyle, especially in those cases in which it is persued by choice. That said I cannot in any good conscience as an Amercian, as a Catholic see how gays can be, should be denied the rights enjoyed by straight people under the U.S. Constitution and State laws without a compelling state (read secular) reason for doing so.

I have yet to be even slightly persuaded that gay civil unions represent an existential threat to the family or the fabric of society. Gays exist in nature, they are of nature. If you are a Christian you must believe that they are of God as well. We are not fanatical Islamists that believe that they must be killed. We must find a way to coexist in an fully integrated society that among other things believes that all men are created equal, that all men are equal under the law, and, in freedom of religion, all religion (even none).

Leave it to God to sought us out.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-02-27   22:35:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: SOSO (#26)

A voice not the voice.

Secular atheism is the official government church now. Just have to walk in a school today.

Secular atheism as an established religion is unconstitutional.

"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-02-27   22:38:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: redleghunter (#28)

Secular atheism is the official government church now. Just have to walk in a school today.

Secular atheism as an established religion is unconstitutional.

Then why are many public schools requiring students to learn about Islam?

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-02-27   23:01:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: Biff Tannen, redleghunter (#19)

Give it a rest with all this gay marriage nonsense.

You care about it more than God does.

"Gay marriage nonsense"? Caring "about it more than God does"??

Congratulations. In keeping with your posting history of monumental idiocy and foolishness, somehow, someway, you've managed to top yourself this time.

Liberator  posted on  2015-02-27   23:25:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: SOSO (#27) (Edited)

I cannot in any good conscience as an Amercian, as a Catholic see how gays can be, should be denied the rights enjoyed by straight people under the U.S. Constitution and State laws without a compelling state (read secular) reason for doing so.

Cut the drama and hysterics.

Homos are NOT "denied" ANY THING but the hijacking of the language AND the time-honored union of man and wife -- better known to the sane as "Marriage."

YOU are a willing stooge to a massive brainwashing campaign. Weak. VERY weak.

I have yet to be even slightly persuaded that gay civil unions represent an existential threat to the family or the fabric of society.

Not even the slightest, eh?

That's because you are painfully disconnected from reality and utterly manipulated. Baaaaah. Baaaah.

Liberator  posted on  2015-02-27   23:33:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: redleghunter (#28)

Secular atheism as an established religion is unconstitutional.

Amen.

(Don't try and explain that obvious fact to the WEAK, cultural surrender monkeys.)

Liberator  posted on  2015-02-27   23:34:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: SOSO (#27)

I do not support the gay lifestyle...

No, not much. Only gay marriage.

Liberator  posted on  2015-02-27   23:35:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: SOSO, redleghunter, VxH, All (#20)

Would you prefer to live on a Judeo-Christian version of Sharia law?

The intellectual contortionism it takes to submit such a bull*** premise should make you feel ashamed. But of course it doesn't, because your agenda betrays you.

Liberator  posted on  2015-02-27   23:39:01 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: redleghunter, Biff Tannen, SOSO (#24)

If you are claiming Christ had no interest in the woman's relationships with men, then why did He bring it up? Same reason He brought up other people's obstacles to the Kingdom of Heaven.

Jesus Christ never condoned sin. He came to blot out sin.

Those who deny Christ's clarity on the relationship on man and woman, man and wife speak to a conscious decision to be either the wheat, or the chaff that blows in the wind.

Liberator  posted on  2015-02-27   23:44:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Willie Green, redleghunter (#14) (Edited)

Yes, as a matter of fact, choo-choo trains ARE a lot more important than gay marriage.

Yes, gay marriage is even less important than choo-trains. But let it be noted that choo-choo trains are priority #9,987,654,556 compared to the defending the obvious constitutionality of the Bible -- which you oddly claim is "unconstitutional."

You know what should be "unconstitutional"? Monumental STUPIDITY and IGNORANCE. They're both rife on this thread.

Liberator  posted on  2015-02-27   23:51:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Willie Green (#5)

If the gays want to get "married," that's fine by me... It's not as if their fornication will actually lead to procreation and produce a bunch of gay children who outnumber the straights.

Fine by you?

Yeah, it's not as though sanctioning perversion will lead to a corrupt sense of righteousness, a perved-out society, moral relativism, and dead and dying souls. No big deal, eh?

Liberator  posted on  2015-02-27   23:55:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: Liberator (#33)

I do not support the gay lifestyle...

No, not much. Only gay marriage.

Why are you such an ass clown? It seems to come with the terrioty of being a mindless, knee jerk fundamenatlist "good" loving Christian. Well your membership card is punched for the day.

Tell me, slef proclaimed Jesus lover, what is the legal basis in American for denying gays the right to a Civil union? Note, ass clown, that I did not say marriage but civil union. Get your holy head out of your holy ass.

If you wish to have a rational, civil discussion about this I am more than happy to engage. If not, f*ck you and the faux cross you rode in on.

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-02-28   13:26:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Liberator, redleghunter, VxH, All (#34)

Would you prefer to live on a Judeo-Christian version of Sharia law? The intellectual contortionism it takes to submit such a bull*** premise should make you feel ashamed. But of course it doesn't, because your agenda betrays you.

My agenda? Which is what, ass clown?

потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-02-28   13:27:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: SOSO (#29)

Then why are many public schools requiring students to learn about Islam?

The atheists are scared of Muslims. They burn people and chop off heads.

All American Christians do is complain or sue.

"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-01   2:03:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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