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Religion
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Title: The Two Shall Become One Flesh
Source: First Things
URL Source: https://www.firstthings.com/article ... ne-flesh-reclaiming-marriage-2
Published: Feb 26, 2015
Author: Evangelicals & Catholics Together
Post Date: 2015-02-26 22:04:36 by redleghunter
Ping List: *Religious History and Issues*     Subscribe to *Religious History and Issues*
Keywords: None
Views: 37420
Comments: 194

In the Gospel of St. Mark, the Lord Jesus teaches that “from the beginning of creation ‘God made them male and female.’” He then declares a great and beautiful truth inscribed in creation: “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. So they are no longer two but one flesh” (Mark 10:6–8).

For centuries, Christians have proclaimed these words at weddings, for they express the gift of marriage long recognized by all humanity and acknowledged by men and women of faith: Marriage is the union of a man and a woman. This truth is being obscured, even denied, today. Because of that, the institution of marriage, which is essential to the well-being of society, is being undermined.

As Christians, it is our responsibility to bear witness to the truth about marriage as taught by both revelation and reason—by the Holy Scriptures and by the truths inscribed on the human heart. These age-old truths explain why Christians celebrate ­marriage—the coming-together of a man and woman in a binding union of mutual support—as one of the glories of the human race. Marriage is the primordial human institution, a reality that existed long before the establishment of what we now know as the state.

As the most venerable and reliable basis for domestic happiness, marriage is the foundation of a just and stable society. Yet in our times this institution has been gravely weakened by the sexual revolution and the damage it has done to marriage and the family: widespread divorce; the dramatic increase in out-of-wedlock births; the casual acceptance of premarital sex and cohabitation; and a contraceptive mentality which insists that sex has an arbitrary relation to procreation. In this environment, families fragment, the poor suffer, and children are especially vulnerable and at risk. The decline of marriage culture is evident throughout the world, and where it is evident, the common good is imperiled.

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Poster Comment:

God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. And God blessed them and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply.” (Gen. 1:27–28) Subscribe to *Religious History and Issues*

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 86.

#20. To: redleghunter, All (#0)

As Christians, it is our responsibility to bear witness to the truth about marriage as taught by both revelation and reason—by the Holy Scriptures and by the truths inscribed on the human heart.

But as Americans we must also recognize that we live under a secular government by choice and design. And as with every society since the beginning of mankind what may be legal may not always be moral and what may be moral may not always be legal. Would you prefer to live on a Judeo-Christian version of Sharia law?

SOSO  posted on  2015-02-27   20:57:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: SOSO, redleghunter, VxH, All (#20)

Would you prefer to live on a Judeo-Christian version of Sharia law?

The intellectual contortionism it takes to submit such a bull*** premise should make you feel ashamed. But of course it doesn't, because your agenda betrays you.

Liberator  posted on  2015-02-27   23:39:01 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: Liberator, redleghunter, VxH, All (#34)

Would you prefer to live on a Judeo-Christian version of Sharia law? The intellectual contortionism it takes to submit such a bull*** premise should make you feel ashamed. But of course it doesn't, because your agenda betrays you.

My agenda? Which is what, ass clown?

SOSO  posted on  2015-02-28   13:27:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: SOSO (#39)

Do you believe in absolutes?

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-01   2:49:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: redleghunter (#41)

Do you believe in absolutes?

Very likely in the same manner as you. Why do you ask?

SOSO  posted on  2015-03-01   12:00:11 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: SOSO (#42)

Do you believe in absolutes?

Very likely in the same manner as you. Why do you ask?

Then why do you comment as if you don't?

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-01   13:25:40 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: redleghunter (#43)

Do you believe in absolutes? Very likely in the same manner as you. Why do you ask?

Then why do you comment as if you don't?

Be specifc. What comment(s) exactly?

SOSO  posted on  2015-03-01   13:44:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: SOSO, redleghunter (#46)

Do you believe in absolutes?

I believe water freezes at 32 degrees F just as two eggs or two sperm cannot create a viable human offspring.

VxH  posted on  2015-03-04   1:37:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#66. To: VxH, redleghunter (#64)

........just as two eggs or two sperm cannot create a viable human offspring.

Well in the U.K. it now can take three to tango, two biological Moms and one Dad. Who knows what science and/or God has in store for us?

SOSO  posted on  2015-03-04   10:53:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#67. To: SOSO (#66)

2 Thessalonians 2 King James Version (KJV)

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-04   11:34:54 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#68. To: redleghunter (#67)

And your point is what?

SOSO  posted on  2015-03-04   11:42:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#69. To: SOSO (#68)

I thought it would be self apparent.

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-04   15:28:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: redleghunter (#69)

I thought it would be self apparent.

It is not. What does the quote have to do with the state granting civil union status to gays?

SOSO  posted on  2015-03-04   17:09:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: SOSO (#70)

Strong delusion.

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-04   17:20:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: redleghunter (#71)

Strong delusion.

Is it delusional to think that gays are entitled to the same civil rights as straights? Do you really believe that God commands us to deny gays their due civil rights? If so we do not pray to the same God.

SOSO  posted on  2015-03-04   17:30:50 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: SOSO (#72)

Is it delusional to think that gays are entitled to the same civil rights as straights? Do you really believe that God commands us to deny gays their due civil rights? If so we do not pray to the same God.

Should men be afforded the same civil rights to become pregnant?

How about those women cornering that market?

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-05   0:18:51 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: redleghunter (#76)

Should men be afforded the same civil rights to become pregnant?

The answer seems evident as God created woman to give birth not man. You probably need to brush up on your Genesis story. But if a man could become pregnant please cite the law(s) that would deny him the same civil rights as the state grants to a pregnant woman.

But you didn't answer my question. Do you believe that God commands us to deny gays the same civil rights as the state deems/grants to straights? If not, then what delusion(s) is involved in the state granting gays the same civil right to a state recognized civil union as it does for straights?

SOSO  posted on  2015-03-05   2:35:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: SOSO (#77)

But you didn't answer my question. Do you believe that God commands us to deny gays the same civil rights as the state deems/grants to straights? If not, then what delusion(s) is involved in the state granting gays the same civil right to a state recognized civil union as it does for straights?

No my line of questioning is correct. Two people of the same gender demanding equal protections for something that is not for people of the same gender is akin to man demanding the government recognize he should be and can be able to become pregnant.

It is absurd to apply marriage to a civil right for those who don't qualify to be married.

If the state wants to provide a legal standing in order for non-married same gender persons or even opposite gender aquaintances to enter into a financial, legal or estate contract, then that is up to the state. But that ain't marriage.

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-05   17:15:08 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: redleghunter (#79)

It is absurd to apply marriage to a civil right for those who don't qualify to be married.

Who says they don't qualify for the civil right of a civil union? We do not live in a theocracy. We live in a secular republic in which all men are equal under the law - the only reason the State can deny a right grant to all to a specific class of people is if the State can put forth a compelling reason on a issue by issue basis and have the courts approve it (as the State has done for bigamy).

"If the state wants to provide a legal standing in order for non-married same gender persons or even opposite gender aquaintances to enter into a financial, legal or estate contract, then that is up to the state. But that ain't marriage."

Currently, as it always has been in the U.S., what the State sanctions and recognizes as, and calls marriage, is in fact not what the various religions call marriage. The State does not deal in Sacraments, it deals in civil sanctions, civil rights irrespective of what the Pope or Sharia Law has to say about the matter. Obey your God and render unto Caeser what is Caesar's. Let God be the judge of who violates His laws.

Now if you can convince the State to present a compelling reason for it to deny gays the exact recognition and legal status of the civil union (otherwise called marriage) that it grants to straights have at it. If the courts agree then you are home free. But it is clear that the State cannot present such a compelling argument which would be acceptable under the U.S. Constitution and have the courts so rule. POTUS is not God. SCOTUS is not God. The U.S. Constitution is not Holy Scripture.

You are entitled to your opinions on the matter. You are entitled to campaign, lobby, organize, protest, picket, disrupt, and, otherwise stir up the pot to the fullest extent of the law and even beyond. But in the end, you live in a country that is ruled by the laws of men not the Laws of God. And you are certainly free to disobey the laws of man in preference to what you believe is the Laws of God. Just be prepared to pay the secular consequences when you do.

In this country the issue of what you call marriage, which is a secular thing sanctioned by the State, is nothing more than a codified secular recognition of a civil union of no religious meaning. The Church(s) adopt what the State sanctions and for its own religious reasons endows this secular State sanctioned union with a religious component that is only relevant to that Church. In the eyes of the State there is absolutely no difference between the civil union it grants to a couple and the civil union which the State allows a Church to grant to a couple and to embellish with its own religious meaning - they are exactly the same under the law.

It is amazing that you cannot grasp this concept in a country where the State has so liberally sanctioned abortion. Have you, I, the Church, or even the opinion of 50%+ of the U.S. people stopped the legalization of abortion?

So I say to you again, obey your God and render unto Caeser what is Caesar's and let God be the judge. He knows what to do.

If you are compelled to do something I suggest getting the Church to refer to the Sacrament of Marriage as Holy Matrimony which is the sacramental joining together of a man and woman as husband and wife (or whatever term best conveys the meaning). Let the State keep the term marriage for its secular civil union. If memory serves there are just a handful (if any) usage of the word marriage itself in the NT, whatever references there are consist of the usage of the word marry.

SOSO  posted on  2015-03-05   22:09:28 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: SOSO, GarySpFc, BobCeleste, A K A Stone, liberator (#80)

It is amazing that you cannot grasp this concept in a country where the State has so liberally sanctioned abortion. Have you, I, the Church, or even the opinion of 50%+ of the U.S. people stopped the legalization of abortion?

So I say to you again, obey your God and render unto Caeser what is Caesar's and let God be the judge. He knows what to do.

Do you really think Jesus Christ meant 'rendering to Caesar' means murdered babies? Jesus called for a coin, not a baby.

NO.

Unless you think child sacrifice is what the founders had in mind.

Any nation devoid of absolute moral standards have failed and will continue to fail. Our Western world has embraced humanism (man is at the center of all things), materialism (what we make or do we worship) and relativism (there are no absolutes only individual particulars). It is the destructive recipe which destroyed previous civilizations.

redleghunter  posted on  2015-03-06   9:42:24 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: redleghunter (#85)

Do you really think Jesus Christ meant 'rendering to Caesar' means murdered babies? Jesus called for a coin, not a baby.

I don't believe Jesus said to give one cent to Rome. He said to give to Caesar what is Ceesars. The fruit of your labor is not Caesars.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-03-06   9:46:56 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 86.

#95. To: A K A Stone (#86)

The fruit of your labor is not Caesars.

When Caesar collects taxes on it that part of the your fruit most certainly is his.

SOSO  posted on  2015-03-06 22:41:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


End Trace Mode for Comment # 86.

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