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Religion
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Title: The Two Shall Become One Flesh
Source: First Things
URL Source: https://www.firstthings.com/article ... ne-flesh-reclaiming-marriage-2
Published: Feb 26, 2015
Author: Evangelicals & Catholics Together
Post Date: 2015-02-26 22:04:36 by redleghunter
Ping List: *Religious History and Issues*     Subscribe to *Religious History and Issues*
Keywords: None
Views: 37421
Comments: 194

In the Gospel of St. Mark, the Lord Jesus teaches that “from the beginning of creation ‘God made them male and female.’” He then declares a great and beautiful truth inscribed in creation: “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. So they are no longer two but one flesh” (Mark 10:6–8).

For centuries, Christians have proclaimed these words at weddings, for they express the gift of marriage long recognized by all humanity and acknowledged by men and women of faith: Marriage is the union of a man and a woman. This truth is being obscured, even denied, today. Because of that, the institution of marriage, which is essential to the well-being of society, is being undermined.

As Christians, it is our responsibility to bear witness to the truth about marriage as taught by both revelation and reason—by the Holy Scriptures and by the truths inscribed on the human heart. These age-old truths explain why Christians celebrate ­marriage—the coming-together of a man and woman in a binding union of mutual support—as one of the glories of the human race. Marriage is the primordial human institution, a reality that existed long before the establishment of what we now know as the state.

As the most venerable and reliable basis for domestic happiness, marriage is the foundation of a just and stable society. Yet in our times this institution has been gravely weakened by the sexual revolution and the damage it has done to marriage and the family: widespread divorce; the dramatic increase in out-of-wedlock births; the casual acceptance of premarital sex and cohabitation; and a contraceptive mentality which insists that sex has an arbitrary relation to procreation. In this environment, families fragment, the poor suffer, and children are especially vulnerable and at risk. The decline of marriage culture is evident throughout the world, and where it is evident, the common good is imperiled.

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God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. And God blessed them and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply.” (Gen. 1:27–28) Subscribe to *Religious History and Issues*

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 194.

#20. To: redleghunter, All (#0)

As Christians, it is our responsibility to bear witness to the truth about marriage as taught by both revelation and reason—by the Holy Scriptures and by the truths inscribed on the human heart.

But as Americans we must also recognize that we live under a secular government by choice and design. And as with every society since the beginning of mankind what may be legal may not always be moral and what may be moral may not always be legal. Would you prefer to live on a Judeo-Christian version of Sharia law?

SOSO  posted on  2015-02-27   20:57:58 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: SOSO (#20)

Would you prefer to live on a Judeo-Christian version of Sharia law?

How'bout just living on biological, natural, fact?

VxH  posted on  2015-02-27   21:45:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: VxH (#21)

How'bout just living on biological, natural, fact?

What is the biological, natural facts about love?

I do not support the gay lifestyle, especially in those cases in which it is persued by choice. That said I cannot in any good conscience as an Amercian, as a Catholic see how gays can be, should be denied the rights enjoyed by straight people under the U.S. Constitution and State laws without a compelling state (read secular) reason for doing so.

I have yet to be even slightly persuaded that gay civil unions represent an existential threat to the family or the fabric of society. Gays exist in nature, they are of nature. If you are a Christian you must believe that they are of God as well. We are not fanatical Islamists that believe that they must be killed. We must find a way to coexist in an fully integrated society that among other things believes that all men are created equal, that all men are equal under the law, and, in freedom of religion, all religion (even none).

Leave it to God to sought us out.

SOSO  posted on  2015-02-27   22:35:39 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: SOSO (#27)

What is the biological, natural facts about love?

Multigenerational reproductive success is what determines socibiological fitness.

What's love got to do with that?

VxH  posted on  2015-03-04   1:32:35 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#65. To: VxH (#63)

Multigenerational reproductive success is what determines socibiological fitness.

What's love got to do with that?

So infertile people are unsocibiologically fit, worthless junk?

SOSO  posted on  2015-03-04   10:51:18 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: SOSO (#65)

So infertile people are unsocibiologically fit, worthless junk?

That would depend upon their behavior, and whether they worship themselves more than they obey the laws of Nature.

VxH  posted on  2015-03-05   0:13:20 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: VxH (#75)

So infertile people are unsocibiologically fit, worthless junk?

That would depend upon their behavior, and whether they worship themselves more than they obey the laws of Nature.

Then please define what you mean by socibiologically fit.

SOSO  posted on  2015-03-05   10:54:41 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: SOSO (#78)

Then please define what you mean by socibiologically fit.

Multiple generations of viable offspring.

Infertile individuals can still increase the fitness of their culture.

Homosexual activists have never increased the fitness of the various cultures they've infested.

VxH  posted on  2015-03-06   11:17:48 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: VxH (#88)

Homosexual activists have never increased the fitness of the various cultures they've infested.

Tell that to the U.S. Figure Skating Association:)

SOSO  posted on  2015-03-06   22:31:16 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#131. To: SOSO (#92)

>>Homosexual activists have never increased the fitness of the various cultures they've infested.

Tell that to the U.S. Figure Skating Association:)

How many generations of natural, reproductively viable, offspring have the homosexuals infesting the U.S. Figure Skating Association managed to produce?

VxH  posted on  2015-03-07   13:15:43 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#134. To: VxH, SOSO, redleghunter (#131)

How many generations of natural, reproductively viable, offspring have the homosexuals infesting the U.S. Figure Skating Association managed to produce?

You guys keep this up and you're going to receive a strongly worded email from the U.S. Figure Skating Assocation.     : )

My advice: blame Red for starting it.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-07   13:46:03 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#135. To: TooConservative, VxH, redleghunter (#134)

You guys keep this up and you're going to receive a strongly worded email from the U.S. Figure Skating Assocation. : )

My advice: blame Red for starting it.

My advice: buy a pair of ice skates.

SOSO  posted on  2015-03-07   13:48:07 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#136. To: SOSO (#135)

You're off to a surly Saturday.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-03-07   13:52:57 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#144. To: TooConservative (#136)

You're off to a surly Saturday.

Yeah, I can get that way when people are willfully blind to the conflicts of logic and lack of intellectual honesty of their positions. You know the drill. If one advocates a position based on logic and law the ad hominem accusations flow like water from those that do not want to accept the validity of your argument.

I keep asking the question, under the U.S. Consitution what is the State's legal basis for denying gays the rights and privileges of a state sanctioned civil union that it affords straights? I have yet to get a rational answer other than потому что Бог хочет это тот путь

SOSO  posted on  2015-03-07   14:49:21 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#183. To: SOSO (#144)

I keep asking the question, under the U.S. Consitution what is the State's legal basis for denying gays the rights and privileges of a state sanctioned civil union that it affords straights?

Under the US Constitution, power not delegated to the Congress is reserved to the States. So, the general police power reposes in the states. And with that general police power, constitutionally, the states can do anything, anything at all, that isn't PROHIBITED by the US Constitution to the states.

Does the US Constitution prohibit discrimination against gays or cigarette smokers? No. Therefore, the states can discriminate against gays and cigarette smokers as much as the voters please, except they can't deny them the vote or deny them life or property without due process of law, and they can't enslave anybody other than as punishment after conviction for a crime.

Now, of course, 5 Supreme Court judges can make up something new and add it to the list: abortion, for instance. And often when they do that they make a feeble attempt to tie it to some other written provision, but they only do that as window dressing.

To date, the Supreme Court has not ruled that gay marriage is one of those things that the Constitution protects. And therefore, until it does so rule, marriage is something that falls within the general police power of the state. And the Constitution says that that power is quasi absolute.

That is the constitutional basis for discriminating against gays and cigarette smokers: where the constitution is silent, the states have plenary power, and the Constitution does not require states to use their power rationally.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-10   9:35:23 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#184. To: Vicomte13 (#183)

Does the US Constitution prohibit discrimination against gays or cigarette smokers? No.

Of course it does. The Constitution requires two things of relevance (1) equal protection under the law, and (2) due process in denying life, liberty, and, the pursuit of happiness. Do you actually believe that a state can constitutionally institute slavery or can ban interracial marriage?

SOSO  posted on  2015-03-10   12:22:14 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#192. To: SOSO (#184)

Of course it does. The Constitution requires two things of relevance (1) equal protection under the law, and (2) due process in denying life, liberty, and, the pursuit of happiness. Do you actually believe that a state can constitutionally institute slavery or can ban interracial marriage?

The 13th Amendment explicitly bans slavery (except as punishment for crime after due process: prison labor and chain gangs are slavery, and legal, but generic slavery is not). So that would be a case of something that the Constitution says that the states can't do.

Interracial marriage was within the state police powers until the Supreme Court ruled that it was not via the 14th Amendment. So it isn't.

Gay marriage is not mentioned in the Constitution. Therefore the states can ban it, unless the Supreme Court says that it, like interracial marriage, is protected under the 14th, which they have not, yet.

That's the state of the law.

There is one further wrinkle: some of the Circuit Courts have gone ahead and ruled that, as far as they are concerned, denial of gay marriage is a violation of equal protection. That is currently the state of the law in those Circuits, but it will not be a Constitutional requirement until the Supreme Court says it is, if they ever do. If the Supreme Court says it isn't, it isn't.

Constitutional law does not hover out there in the ether like Divine Law, a real, absolute, unchanging force that has a mind of its own and that exists independently of human opinions. It is, rather, simply the written opinions of men, and in more recent decades, specifically the written opinions of at least 5 men (and women) that determines what the Constitution is.

"Playing lawyer" with Constitutional law or civil or criminal law does not offend me, because these laws are not REAL, any of them. They were from the beginning nothing more than the opinions of legislators, judges, administrators, executives and kings. They still are nothing more than that, and they can never BE anything more than that, because they are nothing but the creations of men, human playthings. I outwardly defer to men with guns and warrants because they have the authority and will to mess around with my life, but internally I concede them nothing: the human law is nothing but other men's opinions, it has no majesty, and I grant it no supernal authority other than that of superior force.

I don't like it when my opinions are overruled and opinions I think are bad, or stupid, or evil, are put in their place, but I am not morally offended for the LAW'S sake, because "The Law" does not exist at all. It's an imaginary plaything - an idol - the mere opinions of men backed by guns, and it is not, never was, and never can be anything more than that. The LAW, the CONSTITUTION, does not exist other than as an agreed upon dance form.

But the Divine Law, now that is a different thing entirely.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-10   14:23:33 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#193. To: Vicomte13 (#192)

Interracial marriage was within the state police powers until the Supreme Court ruled that it was not via the 14th Amendment. So it isn't.

Bingo. You don't need to go any further. SCOTUS has the last word as to what state laws are constitutional and what are not. ANd the issue is in fact before SCOTUS for ruling this term. Want to bet how SCOTUS will rule? My bet is that state bans on gay marriage will not survive.

SOSO  posted on  2015-03-10   15:28:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#194. To: SOSO (#193)

Want to bet how SCOTUS will rule? My bet is that state bans on gay marriage will not survive.

For the past many years my assumption has been that the Supreme Court will always side with Satan.

I am very rarely surprised.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-03-10   15:32:36 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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