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Title: The Two Shall Become One Flesh
Source:
First Things
URL Source: https://www.firstthings.com/article ... ne-flesh-reclaiming-marriage-2
Published: Feb 26, 2015
Author: Evangelicals & Catholics Together
Post Date: 2015-02-26 22:04:36 by redleghunter
Ping List: *Religious History and Issues* Subscribe to *Religious History and Issues*
Keywords: None
Views: 37643
Comments: 194
In the Gospel of St. Mark, the Lord Jesus teaches that “from the beginning of creation ‘God made them male and female.’” He then declares a great and beautiful truth inscribed in creation: “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh. So they are no longer two but one flesh” (Mark 10:6–8). For centuries, Christians have proclaimed these words at weddings, for they express the gift of marriage long recognized by all humanity and acknowledged by men and women of faith: Marriage is the union of a man and a woman. This truth is being obscured, even denied, today. Because of that, the institution of marriage, which is essential to the well-being of society, is being undermined. As Christians, it is our responsibility to bear witness to the truth about marriage as taught by both revelation and reason—by the Holy Scriptures and by the truths inscribed on the human heart. These age-old truths explain why Christians celebrate marriage—the coming-together of a man and woman in a binding union of mutual support—as one of the glories of the human race. Marriage is the primordial human institution, a reality that existed long before the establishment of what we now know as the state. As the most venerable and reliable basis for domestic happiness, marriage is the foundation of a just and stable society. Yet in our times this institution has been gravely weakened by the sexual revolution and the damage it has done to marriage and the family: widespread divorce; the dramatic increase in out-of-wedlock births; the casual acceptance of premarital sex and cohabitation; and a contraceptive mentality which insists that sex has an arbitrary relation to procreation. In this environment, families fragment, the poor suffer, and children are especially vulnerable and at risk. The decline of marriage culture is evident throughout the world, and where it is evident, the common good is imperiled. Poster Comment: God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. And God blessed them and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply.” (Gen. 1:27–28)
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#90. To: SOSO (#89)
Never suggested a theocracy. Just sanity. If a state votes or passes legislation protecting traditional marriage that is how they should live. Two of the same sex getting hitched is not a religious matter. Historical precedent.
"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)
Never suggested a theocracy. But that is what you really want as you clearly do not like what the U.S. Constitution allows. N.B. - it does allow insanity. "If a state votes or passes legislation protecting traditional marriage that is how they should live." What about if a state passes legislation allowing slavery? Or bigamy? Or beastiality? Or free use of any drug known to man?
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Tell that to the U.S. Figure Skating Association:)
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
You see homosexual "marriage" in the same categories as the above?
"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)
I've never made an argument to just accept abortion like you did about accepting homos. You need to be a bit more discerning about what you read and say as words do make a difference. I never - ever - said that I or anyone else must accept homosexuality in any of its sexual practices. Nor did I ever say that the State can force, or is forcing, anyone to accept homosexuality in society. I said, as basically does the U.S. Constitution, that homosexuality, not being an illegal state of being or of personal sexual practice, must be tolerated in our society. Note the word I actually used- tolerated - not accepted. Please correct your post to me if you wish to further dialogue.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
When Caesar collects taxes on it that part of the your fruit most certainly is his.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
I see the intolerance of homosexuality as being of the same cloth as those other activities. Now please answer my question if you will. Does a state have the right to pass and enforce laws permitting things such as slavery, bigamy, bestiality, drug useage, etc. which contravene what is required under the U.S. Constitution?
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Should the Winter Olympics committee be forced to accept same sex figure skating pairs? Based on your line of reasoning to prohibit such is discrimination. I mean if two talented gay men want to skate against hetero couples pairs who are the Olympics committee to deny such./sarc
"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)
It's a bizarre question as gays are not bound in slavery, are not denied public places. And yes there are states that do prohibit bigamy, bestiality and drug use. Just because your state has embraced hedonism does not mean Texas has to.
"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)
Look at the pictures and tell me what do you think I think? Then tell me what you think.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
So to you bigamy and bestiality prohibitions are discriminatory and have no place in our body of law? Remind me to put a double lock on the student barn.
"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)
Like bestiality not the same sport. Those are same gender teams.
"Now godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out." (1 Timothy 6:6-7)
Now you are putting words in my mouth in a most dishonest way. This really is beneath you. Your Jesuit training is showing. How far up your ass are you willing to go to divert honest discussion about this issue? It is you who stated that a sate should have absolute power to legislate what ever activities it allows and restricts irrespective of the U.S. Constitution. By your assertion if a state votes to legalize slavery, or bigamy or bestiality then YOU must not only tolerate it but accept it as well.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Ram, you meds are off tonight and not serving you well. When you can't see that same gender sport is the same thing as same sex sport we best stop this dialogue.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Not according to Jesus.
Would you vote for someone who supported same sex marriage.
So if I get a gun. Put ammunition in it. And pull the trigger splattering your brains all over the place. Then that shouldn't be illegal. Because in the 10 commandments it says thou shall not kill. That would be killing. So according to you that would be a theocracy. We live in a theocracy because murder is illegal.
It was your bucket list of issues not mine. You threw together slavery, bigamy, bestiality and drug use. I found it odd you used those examples trying to prove your point that preventing gay "marriage" is violating civil rights.
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
Figure skating pairs have always been one man with one woman. Should the Olympic committee be impelled to allow same sex figure skating? It has been one man and one woman for skating pairs since the beginning. Is that not a good reason to sustain traditional pair skating? And no. I don't take meds but given the hour it may be time for your warm milk and beddie bye. :)
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
Would you vote for someone who supported same sex marriage. No. But I might vote for someone that supported gay civil union. I am not a one issue voter. Would you vote for someone who supported abortion? What about legalized pot?
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Probably so. But that is no reason that men or women pair skating cannot become an Olympic event. Olympic events come and go. Remember Olympic baseball? And Olympic wrestling may be on the block. Do I need to remind you that marriage was not always one man with just one woman and that it wasn't that way from the beginning? By you logic only those events that were in the Olympics from the beginning should be allowed and no others. Sleep tight.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Seems more honest since they're all gay anyway. Stop forcing those poor women to be their beards-on-ice.
Well, Drudge reminded us yesterday. Dump it already. Why should the primary original Olympic sport from ancient times be a part of these phony modern Olympics? Maybe they'll revive it by going back to full nudity. Or finding a gay wrestling champion to beat the straight wrestlers, like they found the black kid to win the big American golf trophies. And Bruce Jenner, Wheaties champion extraordinaire, is going full she-male now, decades later.
In the immortal words of John McEnroe: "YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS!!" ....no reason that men or women pair skating cannot become an Olympic event. Chyeah. Let's just make an absolute and total mockery of civilization just because you (presumably) have family members who are homosexuals. Have you been hard at work on your next 4th Grade Primer, 'Heather Has three Daddies'??
No. But I might vote for someone that supported gay civil union. I am not a one issue voter. Would you vote for someone who supported abortion? What about legalized pot? I would never vote for someone who supports baby genocide. They are evil by definition. I would possibly vote for someone who supported legal weed. You say you would support somone who supported gay civil unions. Seems you are playing word games. As above you said gay marriage isn't gay marriage but gay civil unions. So again would you ever vote for someone who supported what is called here in the United States. "Gay marriage". You know what the Supreme court is deciding. What Obama supports. What fag lover Rob Portman supports in Ohio. I am a one issue voter. If they are evil I don't vote for them.
I reckon to appease the enlightened secular humanists, moral relativist intellectuals, and spineless wet-noodle "pillars of society." Maybe they'll revive it by going back to full nudity. Or finding a gay wrestling champion to beat the straight wrestlers, like they found the black kid to win the big American golf trophies. Nice, yet subtle example of an agenda exposed. And Bruce Jenner, Wheaties champion extraordinaire, is going full she-male now, decades later. I think she/it looks lovely. Can't wait for the new Wheaties box and Bruth waving the little rainbow flag while crossing the "Pride" Parade Finish Line in his high heel sandals, sundress, and tastefully applied garish make-up.
Amen! You say you would support somone who supported gay civil unions. Seems you are playing word games. As above you said gay marriage isn't gay marriage but gay civil unions. Ka-CHING! I am a one issue voter. If they are evil I don't vote for them. Way to hold the line, Stone. The bad news: Evil has been dumbed-down. Only the feckless, the cowardly, and the deluded support this "gay marriage" charade along with the rest of the now institutional perversion of our culture.
By all means, please do enlighten us on "The Way of The Beginning."
In the immortal words of John McEnroe: "YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS!!" Check your OT.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Remind us which of the various historical cultures that normalized homosexual behavior survived doing so?
I guess you simply cannot understand what I said. I clearly separate the secular aspects of a State sanction civil union from the religious aspects of a church sanctioned marriage. A church sanctioned marriage is first and foremost a State sanctioned civil union to which the church confers an additional element(s) or meaning SOLELY for the purpose of the members of that church. Whatever additional element or meaning a church may add for the benefit of its members has absolutely no impact of the secular civil union nature of the marriage. Further the State has no standing in dictating or requiring anything of what the church may wish to add to the religious aspect of the ceremony (as long as it does not include illegal acts, e.g. - sacrificial virgins). Let's take this one step further. If a church performs a marriage ceremony that is not recognized/sanctioned by the State that marriage has no legal standing in the State. However it may have tremendous standing for the members of that church. On the other hand, a legally performed State civil union type of marriage remains so even if the church refuses to recognize it. Depending on the specific there may be some legal ramifications for the church in certain acts of its denial or refusal to recognize the legalities of the secular State sanctioned union. Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God. I hope this clarifies my position for you. I have been very consistent on it. If not then let's just move on.
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
That remains to be seen. Religion has obviously failed in response to activist's gender redefinition. The Olympic domain thus far, not so much.
Remind us which of the various historical cultures that normalized homosexual behavior survived doing so? No. I have posted on this before. Do some research. The truth is out there if you can handle it. But FTR, yours is a totally BS request that has nothing to do with the U.S. Constitution. Perhaps you too wish to trash that document and have the U.S. become a theocracy? Or perhaps you believe that the U.S. should ban interracial marriages or ban marriages other than between white Christians?
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
No. Can't provide a single example, can you. I have - and Nature always has the last laugh over those who abominate it in the context of their Utopian state-establishing quest.
Read the OT, you'll find what you are looking for. You do understand the word polygamy, do you not?
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
I provided many on this forum. I am tired of carrying dolts that have nothing to meaningful add to the conversation. Do some research on my posts. You will be made to look very foolish. But if you don't want to believe me, just do a Google search. You will readily find historical examples of cultures that have accommodated homosexual behavior that have survived. There has always been an ebb and flow to human cultures. But here's a brain buster for you. Name one historical culture that has banned gay sexuality that has survived. Ancient Greece? Or perhaps ancient Rome? Ancient Egypt?
потому что Бог хочет это тот путь
Better than you evidently understand the word zygote. Human evolutionary/reproductive biology obviously isn't your forte.
Bullshyte. Homosexuality was proliferate in all those cultures. Evidently that's why they're ancient, and not (until recently at least) contemporary.
That isn't an actual argument. Homosexuality received various treatment in all those cultures over time. The Romans were actually far worse than the Greeks for libertine behavior. The Greeks do not actually deserve their widespread reputation for buggery or even for pederasty which the "queer theorists" have attempted to impose. It is not a true historical view of ancient Greece which was very complex and not uniform between the various
Sir SOSO, you do err. What you say above, it was not like that in the beginning: Matthew 19: 3 The Pharisees also came to Him, testing Him, and saying to Him, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for just any reason?” 4 And He answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:23)
What about when homosexuals conspire to appropriate the reproductive resource$ of heterosexuals in order to finance their procreative abomination of nature? Creating sperm from female stem cells will no doubt be expensive. "That to compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions, which he disbelieves is sinful and tyrannical;" h ttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_Statute_for_Religious_Freedom Why should I have to pay for it?
Comments (131 - 194) not displayed.
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#91. To: redleghunter (#90)
#92. To: VxH (#88)
Homosexual activists have never increased the fitness of the various cultures they've infested.
#93. To: SOSO (#91)
What about if a state passes legislation allowing slavery? Or bigamy? Or beastiality? Or free use of any drug known to man?
#94. To: A K A Stone (#87)
BTW, what is your mental gymnastics that allows you to tolerate legalized abortion in the U.S.?
#95. To: A K A Stone (#86)
The fruit of your labor is not Caesars.
#96. To: redleghunter (#93)
You see homosexual "marriage" in the same categories as the above?
#97. To: SOSO, VxH, Vicomte13, TooConservative, rlk (#92)
Tell that to the U.S. Figure Skating Association:)
#98. To: SOSO (#96)
#99. To: redleghunter (#97)
Should the Winter Olympics committee be forced to accept same sex figure skating pairs?
#100. To: SOSO (#96)
I see the intolerance of homosexuality as being of the same cloth as those other activities.
#101. To: SOSO (#99)
#102. To: redleghunter (#100)
So to you bigamy and bestiality prohibitions are discriminatory and have no place in our body of law?
#103. To: redleghunter (#101)
Like bestiality not the same sport. Those are same gender teams.
#104. To: SOSO (#95)
When Caesar collects taxes on it that part of the your fruit most certainly is his.
#105. To: SOSO (#94)
Note the word I actually used- tolerated - not accepted. Please correct your post to me if you wish to further dialogue.
#106. To: Pridie.Nones (#82)
US Government is not about morality issues
#107. To: SOSO (#102)
Now you are putting words in my mouth in a most dishonest way. This really is beneath you. Your Jesuit training is showing. How far up your ass are you willing to go to divert honest discussion about this issue?
#108. To: SOSO (#103)
#109. To: A K A Stone (#105)
Note the word I actually used- tolerated - not accepted. Please correct your post to me if you wish to further dialogue.
#110. To: redleghunter (#108)
It has been one man and one woman for skating pairs since the beginning. Is that not a good reason to sustain traditional pair skating?
#111. To: redleghunter (#97)
Should the Winter Olympics committee be forced to accept same sex figure skating pairs?
#112. To: SOSO (#110)
(Edited)
Do I need to remind you that marriage was not always one man with just one woman and that it wasn't that way from the beginning?
UPDATE: WORLD'S FIRST THREE-GAY MARRIAGE... And Olympic wrestling may be on the block.
#113. To: SOSO (#110)
Do I need to remind you that marriage was not always one man with just one woman and that it wasn't that way from the beginning?
#114. To: SOSO (#109)
Would you vote for someone who supported same sex marriage.
#115. To: TooConservative (#112)
Why should the primary original Olympic sport from ancient times be a part of these phony modern Olympics?
#116. To: A K A Stone, SOSO (#114)
I would never vote for someone who supports baby genocide. They are evil by definition.
#117. To: SOSO, redleghunter, TooConservative (#110)
Do I need to remind you that marriage was not always one man with just one woman and that it wasn't that way from the beginning?
#118. To: Liberator (#113)
Do I need to remind you that marriage was not always one man with just one woman and that it wasn't that way from the beginning?
#119. To: SOSO (#110)
Do I need to remind you that marriage was not always...
#120. To: A K A Stone (#114)
You say you would support someone who supported gay civil unions. Seems you are playing word games. As above you said gay marriage isn't gay marriage but gay civil unions.
#121. To: redleghunter (#97)
(Edited)
who are the Olympics committee to deny such.
#122. To: VxH (#119)
Do I need to remind you that marriage was not always...
#123. To: SOSO (#122)
(Edited)
>>>Remind us which of the various historical cultures that normalized homosexual behavior survived doing so?
Do some research.
#124. To: Liberator, redleghunter, TooConservative (#117)
By all means, please do enlighten us on "The Way of The Beginning."
#125. To: VxH (#123)
Can't provide a single example. Can you.
#126. To: SOSO (#124)
(Edited)
You do understand the word polygamy, do you not?
#127. To: SOSO (#125)
I provided many on this forum.
Ancient Greece? Or perhaps ancient Rome? Ancient Egypt?
#128. To: SOSO (#125)
But here's a brain buster for you. Name one historical culture that has banned gay sexuality that has survived. Ancient Greece? Or perhaps ancient Rome? Ancient Egypt?
Greek Grecian city-states.
#129. To: SOSO, liberator, TooConservative (#124)
So it is a Wiki handle apparently connected with the ancient Persian empire and its capitol and the Fars province, the homeland of the ancient Persians and of the ancient Persian culture and whose dialect is Farsi, the language spoken in modern Iran.
#130. To: SOSO (#94)
homosexuality, not being an illegal state of being or of personal sexual practice, must be tolerated in our society.
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