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Title: Saudi Cleric: The Sun Revolves Around the Earth
Source: Washington Free Beacon
URL Source: http://freebeacon.com/national-secu ... sun-revolves-around-the-earth/
Published: Feb 18, 2015
Author: Adam Kredo
Post Date: 2015-02-18 11:13:59 by nativist nationalist
Keywords: None
Views: 4480
Comments: 20

A Saudi cleric is garnering headlines for declaring that the sun revolves around the Earth, a clear rejection of all scientific evidence.

The comments have sparked discussion about Saudi Arabia’s ultra-conservative religious authority, which holds sway over the nation’s newly enthroned monarch, King Salman.

The controversial cleric, Sheikh Bandar al-Khaibari, was caught making the comments in a short video clip posted to YouTube on Monday.

In response to a question posed by a student, al-Khaibari says the Earth is “stationary and does not move.”

While al-Khaibari’s remarks have been mocked on social networking sites such as Twitter, regional experts say his anti-science stance is embraced and promoted by leading Saudi clerics in charge of the country’s religious authority.

“It makes perfect sense for a Saudi cleric to be arguing that the sun revolves around the Earth because this is the sort of message they are getting from on high,” according to David Weinberg, a senior fellow at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies (FDD).

“Saleh al-Fawzan, one of the most influential members of the regime’s highest religious body, the Senior Ulema Council, said the same thing last year,” explained Weinberg, who has also tracked the new king’s past support for radical terror groups. “King Salman restructured most of his government last month after coming to power, but he kept Fawzan on the Ulema Council, dismissing only one member who was considered a relative moderate.”

This is a sign that Salman, who has been touted by many as a moderate, could continue to allow the country’s strict religious authority to clamp down on civil rights and other Western values.

Al-Khaibary’s lecture on astronomy took place in late January, during a government-sponsored lecture in the United Arab Emirates, according to sources provided by FDD. He has given similar lectures sponsored by the Saudi government.

In addition to promoting the notion that the Earth is stationary in space, al-Khaibary’s mentor cleric Fawzan has claimed that the Islamic State (IS) terror group is a creation of “Zionists, crusaders, and Safavids,” according to Weinberg.

“That’s the sort of message that Saudi religious officials are receiving from the state’s favorite clergy,” Weinberg said.

Al-Khaibary’s comments, while surprising to a Western audience, have been echoed in the past by religious leaders such as Fawzan, who is regularly cited by al-Khaibary as a “rational man.”

Other posts on a Twitter account appearing to belong to al-Khaibary claim that Shia Muslims, a minority population in Saudi Arabia, “are more insidious than Christians and equivalent to Jews.”

The cleric also states on Twitter that “Christians in all their three main sects—Catholics and Orthodox and Protestants—are infidels, and whoever doubted their infidel status is himself an infidel,” according to another positing.

Anti-science stances have long been promulgated by leading Saudi clerics, including one of the country’s most influential and celebrated religious leaders, the now deceased Grand Mufti Sheikh Abdul Aziz bin Baz.

Bin Baz is perhaps most notorious for his 1976 ruling that the Earth is flat.

FDD’s Weinberg said Fawzan’s position on Saudi Arabia’s religion council provides a sign of the direction that country is heading.

“This gives you an idea of where Saudi Arabia is headed under King Salman,” he said. “Salman kept Fawzan on the Senior Ulema Council while dismissing a relative moderate. He [enjoys close ties to] the current grand mufti, who says that all churches in the Arabian Peninsula should be destroyed. And he sat for years on the board of the foundation set up to honor the legacy of Abdul Aziz bin Baz, even though bin Baz also memorably suggested that women who study with men are akin to prostitutes.”

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Begin Trace Mode for Comment # 6.

#4. To: nativist nationalist, Vicomte13 (#0)

“It makes perfect sense for a Saudi cleric to be arguing that the sun revolves around the Earth because this is the sort of message they are getting from on high,” according to David Weinberg, a senior fellow at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies (FDD).

“Saleh al-Fawzan, one of the most influential members of the regime’s highest religious body, the Senior Ulema Council, said the same thing last year,” explained Weinberg, who has also tracked the new king’s past support for radical terror groups. “King Salman restructured most of his government last month after coming to power, but he kept Fawzan on the Ulema Council, dismissing only one member who was considered a relative moderate.”

There is a certain school of thought in Islamic theology regarding physics and metaphysics. So this is not any surprise at all. Many, perhaps most, Islamic clerics have a medieval conception of science, physics in particular.

I read an article about it in Foreign Policy or some wonk site one time.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-18   17:39:22 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: TooConservative (#4)

But the Sun DOES revolve around the Earth, and vice versa, sort of, because both revolve about a common point that is neither the Sun's center of mass nor the Earth's (which is much closer to the center of the Sun than it is to the Earth).

In truth they revolve around their center of mass, which is itself revolving about the localized galatic center of mass. The Sun, Earth and all the planets are corkscrewing forward around a local center of mass, that is itself corkscrewing about a local center of mass.

And the really interesting thing is that MAYBE mass has nothing to do with it, and it's driven by electromagnetic forces and not gravity at all. The science isn't there yet, but by the time many of us die, it will be. Gravity will be reduced to a surface effect, and things like "gravitational lensing" will be re- interpreted as the electromagnetic deflection of light.

And as that develops, there will be people screaming the orthodoxy of Newton and Einstein just as vociferously as the these clerics are howling their orthodoxy.

Galileo didn't really say "And yet it moves", but it makes it easier to tell stories like this if he is believed to, because it reduces everything down to a case that people understand.

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-02-19   8:24:52 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Vicomte13 (#5)

And as that develops, there will be people screaming the orthodoxy of Newton and Einstein just as vociferously as the these clerics are howling their orthodoxy.

I think you know we are a long, long way from any reevaluation of the reigning current orthodoxy in physics. String theory goes nowhere and the CERN accelerator isn't really producing the kind of results that were hoped for, other than finally confirming the Higgs boson which had been assumed true for decades already.

I think we lack adequate instrumentation and test equipment to make fundamental advances in physics.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-19   9:06:45 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


Replies to Comment # 6.

#7. To: TooConservative (#6)

I think you know we are a long, long way from any reevaluation of the reigning current orthodoxy in physics. String theory goes nowhere and the CERN accelerator isn't really producing the kind of results that were hoped for, other than finally confirming the Higgs boson which had been assumed true for decades already.

I think we lack adequate instrumentation and test equipment to make fundamental advances in physics.

I agree that general society, and scientific society, is unready to re-evaluate anything fundamental. Fortunately, it doesn't really matter. For the most part, we will just sit here in our wrongness and be wrong, and be very self- satisfied about it.

I think that we can test some things about gravity with very simple equipment.

Example: want to test whether gravity is the result of mass or surface expansion?

Set up the original Cavendish Experiment that "proved" gravity. It needs to be done the original way, with the lead-weight-bearing board suspended by the wire, with the lead balls as "stators" to induce the "twist", thereby "proving" gravity.

Now innovate with one simple expedient: drill a hole in the stator balls and hollow them out, and fill them with mercury. The balls will remain very dense. Once the "twist" is "produced by the local gravity", open the stopcock and drain out the mercury. Observe. The balls will twist back, or relax from their twisted state, demonstrating that force-over-distance gravity DID cause the distortion. OR they will remain in place, demonstrating something very different - that the apparent gravity is a surface effect of objects.

To further confirm this, reoperate the experiment replacing the stator balls with larger balls of hollow metal. Look for the twist. If the twist is greater with larger, hollow balls you have demonstrated the second effect.

These tests always COULD HAVE been run using 18th Century equipment, but they WERE NOT. They WERE NOT RUN. The sought-for "force at a distance deriving from mass" was "found by the test", and that was "confirmed" by running the test many times in different places.

These other tests, which "prove" (really, which "indicate" or "correlate to") something else, were not run. They could be, and just on those results using 18th century equipment the physics could be confirmed on that vector, or overthrown.

Likewise, we could re-run the classical "Galileo" experiment of dropping objects of different sizes and weights greater distances than he did, and with more precise chronometers, but in vacuum. There is an expected answer, but if the answer differs in the same way that the modified Cavendish results differed from expected, we would have two-experiment corroboration of something meaningful using early 20th Century technology.

The third test would involve baseballs in a crosswind.

The fourth would involve baseballs in an intense particle-theory-of-light concentration of rays. The purpose would be to prove something about the nature of rotation and orbits.

There are things that could be done using very old tech that would revolutionize the world, but you'd need a mad scientist with some bucks and an unnaturally high degree of skepticism to do it.

So, here's hoping that I come into some money some day!

Vicomte13  posted on  2015-02-19 10:50:15 ET  Reply   Untrace   Trace   Private Reply  


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