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Title: Chris Kyle, Author of American Sniper, Was a War Hero. He Was Also A Liar
Source: slate.com
URL Source: http://www.slate.com/articles/news_ ... _lies_about_jesse_ventura.html
Published: Jan 20, 2015
Author: Mark Joseph Stern
Post Date: 2015-02-01 03:21:06 by Pericles
Keywords: None
Views: 32048
Comments: 108

American Liar

Why Jesse Ventura is likely to collect millions from Chris Kyle’s American Sniper.

By Mark Joseph Stern

Chris Kyle, author of the runaway best-seller American Sniper, was a military hero who killed 160 people during his four tours of duty in Iraq and is now the subject of an Oscar-nominated blockbuster. He was also a fabulist. Before his tragic murder in 2013, Kyle told a number of extremely dubious stories. In one tale, Kyle claimed he killed two carjackers at a gas station southwest of Dallas, and that his driver’s license directed local police officers who questioned him to contact the Department of Defense. Kyle also claimed he traveled to post-Katrina New Orleans with a sniper friend, set up his gun atop the Superdome, and picked off dozens of armed looters.

The 160 kills are confirmed by the Pentagon. But there are absolutely no records of, or witnesses to, the latter stories. They are, perhaps intentionally, unverifiable. But it wasn’t these fantastical tales of vigilante justice that got Kyle into legal trouble. It was another, much less exciting story—one that wasn’t just unverifiable, but verifiably false. That tale, conveyed in a mere three pages of American Sniper, has put Kyle’s widow on the hook for $1.845 million in damages. And it may soon make Kyle’s publishers wish they approached the veteran’s claims with great deal of skepticism.

Kyle’s legal difficulties emerged from a subchapter of American Sniper titled “Punching Out Scruff Face.” In it, Kyle describes beating up a former Navy SEAL (“Scruff Face”) after the SEAL claims American soldiers deserved to die in Iraq. Early drafts of the book identified the SEAL as Jesse Ventura, former governor of Minnesota and famed professional wrestler, but Kyle’s publishers removed the name for fear of a lawsuit. Nonetheless, in a radio interview following the book’s release, Kyle admitted that “Scruff Face” was Ventura, and he repeated the claim soon after on The O’Reilly Factor. American Sniper shot to the top of Amazon’s best-seller list, becoming a smash hit for its publisher, HarperCollins, selling more than 1.5 million copies by July of 2014.

There was, however, a problem: The Ventura story wasn’t true, and Ventura meant to prove it. So he took Kyle to trial, suing him—and, after he died, his estate—for defamation and unjust enrichment. In the United States, defamation cases are extremely difficult to win, thanks to the First Amendment. When allegedly defamatory statements pertain to a public figure, the plaintiff mustn’t just prove those statements were false. He has to prove the defendant made those statements with “actual malice”—that is, knowledge that they were false or with “reckless disregard” for their falsity. Very few defamation plaintiffs can make it over the high bar of actual malice.

Ventura made it. On July 29, 2014, a federal jury returned from six days of deliberations to award Ventura $1.845 million in damages—specifically, $500,000 for defamation and about $1.345 million for unjust enrichment. (In other words, Kyle unjustly profited from defaming Ventura, and so his estate must give Ventura some of that money.) Kyle’s widow, Taya Kyle, promptly filed for “judgment as a matter of law,” asking the trial judge to reverse’s the jury’s verdict because the jury clearly got it wrong. Failing that, she asked for an entirely new trial. The judge denied both requests, defending the jury’s verdict as legally and factually justifiable. Kyle’s widow is currently appealing the decision; her odds of winning appear quite low.

...snip...

This suit is the second of Ventura’s one-two punch, and from here, it looks like a knockout. During the first trial, Ventura’s attorneys uncovered records of HarperCollins’ negligence in fact-checking Kyle’s book, as well as evidence that HarperCollins specifically touted the Ventura story to drum up publicity. Kyle’s ghostwriters spoke with only one person who claimed to have witnessed the fight, a friend of Kyle’s who told a different version of the story that lacked Ventura’s offensive remarks. No one from HarperCollins contacted Ventura or his representatives to verify the story. And though Kyle claimed Ventura appeared at a SEAL graduation afterward with a black eye—where “everybody was laughing” and asking “Who beat the shit out of him?”—HarperCollins never asked a member of the graduating class whether they saw Ventura’s injury. (A photograph from the event shows a clear image of Ventura—with no black eye.)

It gets worse for HarperCollins. Despite the tenuous source of the Ventura story, HarperCollins quickly saw it as a publicity gold mine. After Kyle identified “Scruff Face” as Ventura in a radio interview on The Opie & Anthony Show, HarperCollins editor Peter Hubbard wrote in an email that the publicity from the story was “priceless.” HarperCollins publicist Sharon Rosenblum described the Ventura kerfuffle as “hot hot hot,” immediately arranging for Kyle to retell the tale on The O’Reilly Factor. Sales of American Sniper—which, up to that point, were fairly modest—spiked dramatically, apparently in conjunction with interest in the Ventura story. After the O’Reilly appearance, Ventura publicly denied Kyle’s accusations. Yet Rosenblum arranged for Kyle to tell the story again on The Opie & Anthony Show, and HarperCollins printed several new editions of the book that still featured the “Scruff Face” section. (It was finally removed after Ventura won his suit.)

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#69. To: TooConservative (#67)

I think Ventura got used to talking a lot of smack hanging out in biker bars and as a pro wrestler.

I think so,too.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-02   21:48:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#70. To: sneakypete, TooConservative, GarySpFC, yall (#64)

Got a great coon story.

A neighbor of mine was watching TV in his family room, where his wife had been complaining of a bad smell. Suddenly, the sheet rock wall behind his couch burst open and the source of the smell was revealed.. Turns out a mama coon in the attic had lost her baby down the stud wall cavity, went down to rescue it, and got stuck herself. Nature prevailed, and decomposition split open the sheet rock.

My neighbor wanted me to do the repairs, but I was too busy..

tpaine  posted on  2015-02-02   21:48:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#71. To: TooConservative (#68)

Strangely enough, the Kennedy family cooperated in a search for the sunken plywood boat, supposedly the only US patrol boat rammed and sunk in WW II.

That's not the PT boat I was talking about. I am talking about the one the Navy gave him to use when he was president.

It was their subtle (?) way of reminding him that he was in the Navy too,and the Navy needed money to operate and more Admirals to run things.

Not sure how many times he used it,but IIRC,it did have a pink door for the Ladie's room. I seriously doubt Jackie Ho ever set foot on it,but Marilyn Monroe and others most likely did.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-02   21:51:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#72. To: sneakypete (#62)

Who wouldn't,given the psychic burden he carries ever day for the loss of his team?

I don't get it. When you're in the military, how can it not be a possible outcome that only one survivor returns from a bad mission? The US had a number of combat episodes in Af-Pak where there were only one or two survivors from a vicious firefight at a forward base. You might assume that the odds are very very high against anything much less than a patrol group getting out of a heavy firefight because when your numbers fall below a certain number like a half dozen, the odds go way up there will be no survivors at all. But it seems to happen more than you would expect. I don't recall reading the same kinds of reports from Iraq fighting but it was a different kind of fighting there than the firebases and patrols in the Af-Pak back country.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-02   21:54:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#73. To: sneakypete (#71)

That's not the PT boat I was talking about. I am talking about the one the Navy gave him to use when he was president.

He did have an actual presidential yacht.

You'll have to excuse me but why would an assassinated president's personal PT boat end up at the tail end of some base only two years after he was traumatically murdered on television?

I can't even imagine how that would happen. The Navy would be that careless with a murdered Navy president's personal boat? It just makes no sense. If nothing else, an admiral would have it in very careful keeping.

BTW, after JFK got his first PT boat (PT-109) sunk, they gave him another one for a little while but I don't know if he ever went into combat again on it.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-02   21:58:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#74. To: tpaine (#70)

My neighbor wanted me to do the repairs, but I was too busy..

I would also be too busy.

Who am I kidding? Yeah, I'd be dumb enough to help. Complaining about the smell the whole time and gloved to the elbows. Hate cleaning up dead animals.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-02   22:01:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#75. To: TooConservative (#68) (Edited)

Hard to imagine any working PT boat of WW II ever having a woman's bathroom.

Lots of PTs were sold as surplus and converted into yachts. -- Somebody probably restored one for fun, and added another head for the ladies.

--- Or,--- It could have been the one used by MacArthur to escape from Corrigador. If memory serves, I remember reading something about special quarters having been set up for his wife and child on that boat. (Or did they even have a kid yet?)

tpaine  posted on  2015-02-02   22:02:43 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#76. To: TooConservative (#72)

I don't get it. When you're in the military, how can it not be a possible outcome that only one survivor returns from a bad mission?

You have never been in a combat arms branch of the military,or you would get it.

The reason those men died were due to the poor tactical decisions he made as their team leader. His senior NCO's tried to tell him that if they did what he wanted to do chances are they would all die,and he ignored their advise and ordered them to obey his commands. They did,and they died because of it.

Leaders are the ones that have to make these hard decisions,and in this case the decision he make cost the men under his command their lives.

IF he had done as they suggested,they would have never been surrounded and killed.

If you don't understand this,the best I can tell you to do is read the book and watch the movie.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-02   22:16:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#77. To: tpaine (#75)

--- Or,--- It could have been the one used by MacArthur to escape from Corrigador.

MacArthur was quite the little prince, wasn't he? Yet no one ever said anything about it. Apparently, he was held in very high regard. He must have been pretty charismatic in person. Even the old newreels give that impression of him.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-02   22:29:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#78. To: sneakypete (#76)

The reason those men died were due to the poor tactical decisions he made as their team leader. His senior NCO's tried to tell him that if they did what he wanted to do chances are they would all die,and he ignored their advise and ordered them to obey his commands. They did,and they died because of it.

IOW, he was a stubborn bonehead and wouldn't listen to his superiors. Now he is the ghost of his bad decision.

If you don't understand this,the best I can tell you to do is read the book and watch the movie.

Sounds depressing. No thanks. It would explain why he seemed heavily medicated though. He's getting eaten up inside.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-02   22:31:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#79. To: TooConservative (#73)

He did have an actual presidential yacht.

He had a lot of stuff. Countless crap is given to presidents.

You'll have to excuse me but why would an assassinated president's personal PT boat end up at the tail end of some base only two years after he was traumatically murdered on television?

Beats me. JFK liked SF,and he was the guy that authorized SF to wear Green Berets despite the wishes of the regular army,so it's possible he gave it to them to use for training.

It's also possible somebody in SF saw the PT boat docked somewhere not being used,and decided to steal it to use for training and actual missions. We stole a LOT of equipment from the regular army,the USMC,the US Navy,and the USAF. We had to in order to complete our missions because we weren't authorized the equipment we needed under the official TO&E because the regular army didn't like us and they wanted to see us fail. ALL of the trucks and jeeps we had at FOB-2 were stolen from the regular army. Since on paper we did nothing but sit around camp and look at maps,the regular army didn't think we needed any,so they was no money in our budget to buy any. So we stole them.

That's right,military units have budgets based on the size of the unit and their mission,and they have to use that money to buy the food,gas,diesel fuel,trucks,and everything else they need to function. You don't get that stuff just by asking or it. You have to/are supposed to use unit funds to buy it all.

I can't even imagine how that would happen. The Navy would be that careless with a murdered Navy president's personal boat? It just makes no sense. If nothing else, an admiral would have it in very careful keeping.

Do you seriously think Admirals spend much time at dockside watching boats?

I'm not going to give you a quick course on how this sort of thing is done because it might hamper people needing to do it today,but rest assured there are ways you can pull this sort of thing off if you have the intelligence and the stones to go for it.

People who have served a few years in the military and been around a little can probably understand how and why it happens,but it is practically impossible to explain this to someone who has never served because you don't understand how the system works.

BTW, after JFK got his first PT boat (PT-109) sunk, they gave him another one for a little while but I don't know if he ever went into combat again on it.

From what I have read,that's pretty surprising. The Navy wanted to court-martial him for dereliction of duty,and old man Joe Kennedy tried using his influence in the Dim Party to get him a Medal of Honor. IIRC,the compromise was neither got what they wanted.

Of course,after he became president and began signing budget bills,the US Navy suddenly loved him. If he had wanted one,they would have given him a battleship.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-02   22:41:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#80. To: tpaine (#75)

-- Or,--- It could have been the one used by MacArthur to escape from Corrigador. If memory serves, I remember reading something about special quarters having been set up for his wife and child on that boat. (Or did they even have a kid yet?)

You know what,that may have even been the same boat given to JFK that ended up on Okinawa.

All I heard about the boat were rumors because nobody was ever going to admit to anything,but the rumors made sense. Especially given the JFK/SF connection.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-02   22:43:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#81. To: sneakypete (#79) (Edited)

From what I have read,that's pretty surprising. The Navy wanted to court-martial him for dereliction of duty,and old man Joe Kennedy tried using his influence in the Dim Party to get him a Medal of Honor. IIRC,the compromise was neither got what they wanted.

The incident did sound damning but I read some explanations from the usual Kennedy-lovers that mitigate against some of the standard accusations of dereliction. That Kennedy had a playboy reputation (in the Navy and in the Senate and as president) didn't help the impression he created.

Anyway, the Kennedy cult is still willing to debate to the death anyone who questions his awesome abilities as the commander of the only PT boat rammed and sunk by a destroyer in WW II though it was totally 100% not his fault. Or something like that.     : )

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-02   22:51:18 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#82. To: TooConservative (#78)

IOW, he was a stubborn bonehead and wouldn't listen to his superiors. Now he is the ghost of his bad decision.

No,he wouldn't listen to the advise of the NCO's under him that had more experience. He was the superior,not them.

Most,but not all,junior officers have enough sense to listen to their senior NCO's for tactical advice,but not all of them. The ones that don't generally end up not having very successful careers.

BUT....,at the end of the day it is the senior officer that makes the final decisions,and he gets all the glory or all the blame.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-02   22:56:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#83. To: sneakypete (#82)

BUT....,at the end of the day it is the senior officer that makes the final decisions,and he gets all the glory or all the blame.

Well, how else can that system function? It is totally top-down.

If you changed that, it wouldn't be a military.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-02   22:59:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#84. To: TooConservative (#77)

MacArthur was quite the little prince, wasn't he? Yet no one ever said anything about it.

Yes,but he was wearing 4 stars on his collar,and like every other man in uniform that wears 4 stars,nobody is going to complain much about anything he says or does.

McArthur was just the most famous ego-maniac wearing a US uniform in WW-2. That doesn't mean he was the only one,though.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-02   23:00:02 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#85. To: TooConservative (#81)

The incident did sound damning but I read some explanations from the usual Kennedy-lovers that mitigate against some of the standard accusations of dereliction.

I honestly don't know how anyone can explain away a commander that was supposed to be on a combat patrol putting out a sea anchor to drift with no lights on and nobody awake on watch while he went to bed,and is then ran down by the very ship he was on patrol to sink.

The only way I can picture it being worse would be if he somehow managed to sink the PT boat himself.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-02   23:03:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#86. To: sneakypete (#85)

I honestly don't know how anyone can explain away a commander that was supposed to be on a combat patrol putting out a sea anchor to drift with no lights on and nobody awake on watch while he went to bed,and is then ran down by the very ship he was on patrol to sink.

Well, they try to pretend he wasn't drifting (and sleeping off a drunk which is what his reputation was).

Then they'll claim that a big destroyer hundreds of feet long could not be heard because its engines were located hundreds of feet away.

It all starts to sound daft but these are Kennedy cultists so arguing with them is a waste of time. They don't expect to win the argument, they just refuse to admit it was indefensible. And that's all they expect to accomplish.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-02   23:15:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#87. To: TooConservative (#86)

I should have pinged you on the other thread

Every society gets the kind of criminal it deserves. What is equally true is that every community gets the kind of law enforcement it insists on. Robert Kennedy

GrandIsland  posted on  2015-02-02   23:17:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#88. To: sneakypete (#84)

McArthur was just the most famous ego-maniac wearing a US uniform in WW-2.

Only our most famous egomaniac.

I'd say Montgomery had him beat in spades. And de Gaulle was completely impossible for the Allies to work with. If I had been Eisenhower, I would have had de Gaulle shot. Well, I'm almost serious about that...

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-02   23:17:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#89. To: sneakypete (#79)

We stole a LOT of equipment from the regular army,the USMC,the US Navy,and the USAF. We had to in order to complete our missions because we weren't authorized the equipment we needed under the official TO&E because the regular army didn't like us and they wanted to see us fail. ALL of the trucks and jeeps we had at FOB-2 were stolen from the regular army. Since on paper we did nothing but sit around camp and look at maps,the regular army didn't think we needed any,so they was no money in our budget to buy any. So we stole them.

Now, now, we never stole anything, but the regs really loved our hats. :)

“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org

GarySpFC  posted on  2015-02-02   23:44:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#90. To: TooConservative (#86)

It all starts to sound daft but these are Kennedy cultists so arguing with them is a waste of time. They don't expect to win the argument, they just refuse to admit it was indefensible.

Nobody wants to admit their Gods are flawed.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-03   9:20:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#91. To: sneakypete (#90)

You'd think the Camelot myth was thoroughly punctured by now but apparently the cult won't die out until the last Kennedy lib is pushing up daisies.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-03   9:22:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#92. To: TooConservative (#88)

Only our most famous egomaniac.

True.

I'd say Montgomery had him beat in spades.

I'm not so sure of that. Monty got all the bad press in the US that McArthur didn't get because McArthur was a WW-1 hero and MoH winner,even though IIRC he put himself it for it and put himself in for another one for deserting the Philippines and fleeing to Australia. True,he was ordered to go to Australia,but since when is following orders to retreat a MoH event?

And de Gaulle was completely impossible for the Allies to work with.

He was even impossible for the French to work with.

If I had been Eisenhower, I would have had de Gaulle shot. Well, I'm almost serious about that...

Me too,and there is no "almost" about it. I might have even done it myself.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-03   9:25:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#93. To: sneakypete (#92)

Me too,and there is no "almost" about it. I might have even done it myself.

Ah, you are familiar with the Little Generalissimo, eh? LOL

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-03   9:44:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#94. To: GarySpFC (#89)

Now, now, we never stole anything, but the regs really loved our hats. :)

True. We just temporarily borrowed a lot of stuff and forgot to take it back.

And the truth is most of it wasn't really stolen by us. It was just reported as stolen by the senior NCO's or officers in the unit that had been in possession of it,and they traded it for captured NVA weapons,flags,uniforms,etc,etc,etc. Sometimes they just sold it outright. Other times they were ex-SF people themselves,or aware of and sympathetic to our supply problems,and just gave us stuff. They had to either report it stolen or report it as "lost/destroyed in combat" for the items that would be believable in order to get it off their books so they could get replacements. An example was Wille Parks was a old friend of mine from the 3rd and the 1st ,and later turned up as the supply sgt with the leg unit based at Dak To,which was our launch site. Willie spotted me in the leg messhall one day when I went in there to try to get a quart of milk,and called me over and introduced me to the mess sgt as his friend and fellow NCO (We wore sterile uniforms with no rank or name tags) . After that I was given anything I wanted any time I walked into that mess hall. Even if I had just came in from a week or more out in the jungle without washing or changing clothes. The mess sgt would seat me and my team in the NCO section of the mess hall and ask us all what we wanted to eat,and have someone bring it to us.

You really have to spend a week or so drinking bomb crater water/puddle water/muddy river/rice paddy water with enough water purification pills in it to make your mouth burn to understand how soothing a quart of whole milk can be on the stomach. Not to mention the absolute joy of a fresh hot meal with coffee.

Or taking a LONG hot shower back in camp and then going into your air-conditioned team room to fresh sheets that smelled good and then climb in between them and go to sleep without waking up every 15 minutes to listen.

Pleasure is a VERY relative thing,and some of the greatest ones are the simplest ones.

Lots of times the enlisted swine in conventional units were sympathetic to the local A-teams because these guys had warned them "off the books" of local enemy build-ups near their positions in time for them to prepare their defenses and ask for additional troops. That's the sort of thing that builds up a LOT of goodwill.

So does doing stuff like inviting them to your team house for a beer blast and steak dinner.

It was the conventional commanders that hated us,not the troops. The commanders hated us because we didn't come under their command,and they couldn't order us to run recons for them or steal our NCO's to make them platoon sgts. Regular Army officers just couldn't deal with a SF E-5 telling them "No" when they tried to order him to do something,or to "Bleep off!" if they started getting pushy. The fact that they didn't even have the authority to order us arrested for refusing to follow their orders really fried their fritters. They just couldn't compute that we had own own missions and responsibilities that were in no way connected with their efforts,and they took it personally.

They also couldn't understand that a SF E-5 Buck Sgt might be filling the role of a platoon sgt as a part of his daily mission,and taking him away from that would leave a whole platoon of indigenous troops leaderless. Which made the company they were a part of combat ineffective due to being undermanned.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-03   10:03:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#95. To: TooConservative (#91)

You'd think the Camelot myth was thoroughly punctured by now but apparently the cult won't die out until the last Kennedy lib is pushing up daisies.

One of my personal favorite "Kennedy Moments" happened 10-12 years ago when a conservative (for Mass) Republican in Mass legally changed his last name to "Kennedy" before running for a local office,and won by a landslide against the local Dim-backed candidate. Dims admitted on tv that they voted for him because of his name and thinking he was one of the "Royal Kennedy's",and the Dim Party tried to get the election overturned because of it.

In a similar vein,I remember talking to people that admitted to voting for Boy Jorge because they thought he was his father.

And people still wonder why America is dying.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2015-02-03   10:08:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#96. To: sneakypete (#95) (Edited)

One of my personal favorite "Kennedy Moments" happened 10-12 years ago when a conservative (for Mass) Republican in Mass legally changed his last name to "Kennedy" before running for a local office,and won by a landslide against the local Dim-backed candidate. Dims admitted on tv that they voted for him because of his name and thinking he was one of the "Royal Kennedy's",and the Dim Party tried to get the election overturned because of it.

Actually, both parties have pulled that little trick.

And they wonder why voters get so cynical.

BTW, those "Dems on TV" were just the legal backstop for sleazy Dim lawyers to try to get into court to overturn the election.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-03   10:09:59 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#97. To: TooConservative, GarySpFC (#58)

Ventura is not a sympathetic figure at all. But Kyle and his publisher still deliberately libeled him and conspired to do it as proven by documents and testimony. They libeled him just to gin up controversy and create a hit book and get a movie package.

They did libel him, but we don't know their motive.

C'mon. Profits.

I also think the FOX folks may have had it in for Ventura. They seem to go after personalities in the media that maybe can sway their audiences away from their official party line. Ventura appeals to the right side of the spectrum more than the left and since his Alex Jones nut stuff also appeals to the right side of the spectrum coupled with his outright hostility to the Bush/Neocons - that made Ventura a threat to be taken down.

Kyle was used by the FOX empire not only to make money but to push the pro Iraq war message.

Pericles  posted on  2015-02-03   23:05:50 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#98. To: Pericles (#97)

I also think the FOX folks may have had it in for Ventura. They seem to go after personalities in the media that maybe can sway their audiences away from their official party line. Ventura appeals to the right side of the spectrum more than the left and since his Alex Jones nut stuff also appeals to the right side of the spectrum coupled with his outright hostility to the Bush/Neocons - that made Ventura a threat to be taken down.

Kyle was used by the FOX empire not only to make money but to push the pro Iraq war message.

You have a running wild imagination.

“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org

GarySpFC  posted on  2015-02-04   0:46:44 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#99. To: GarySpFC (#98) (Edited)

You have a running wild imagination.

Says the guy who believes Iraq had WMD - they just snuck them to Syria. That is a wild imagination right there!

Pericles  posted on  2015-02-04   1:12:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#100. To: Pericles (#97)

I also think the FOX folks may have had it in for Ventura. They seem to go after personalities in the media that maybe can sway their audiences away from their official party line. Ventura appeals to the right side of the spectrum more than the left and since his Alex Jones nut stuff also appeals to the right side of the spectrum coupled with his outright hostility to the Bush/Neocons - that made Ventura a threat to be taken down.

Ventura shot his mouth off many times and FNC promptly covered it all like front page news. More of their manufacturing anger and turning it into ratings gold.

Ventura was an obvious target to libel.

Murdoch will lose money on the book. But laugh all the way to the bank with the massive profits from the movie.

No doubt, Murdoch and his competitors will be looking for more ways to profit off libel. He's a damned tabloid publisher after all.

I bet no one got fired at Harper over this. They probably got bonuses and promotions. And even the results of the lawsuit was used to fan more interest in the book and movie and up attendance and upcoming Bluray sales.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-04   3:33:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#101. To: Pericles (#99)

Says the guy who believes Iraq had WMD - they just snuck them to Syria. That is a wild imagination right there!

Not when there was solid intel to confirm it.

“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org

GarySpFC  posted on  2015-02-05   15:23:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#102. To: GarySpFC (#101)

Says the guy who believes Iraq had WMD - they just snuck them to Syria. That is a wild imagination right there!

Not when there was solid intel to confirm it.

No. There is no solid intel. Bush, the president of the US of A himself finally stated that Saddam did not have any weapons to tranfer. Join the reality based community.

Pericles  posted on  2015-02-05   16:48:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#103. To: TooConservative (#100)

Ventura shot his mouth off many times and FNC promptly covered it all like front page news. More of their manufacturing anger and turning it into ratings gold.

Ventura is already on FOX doing is wrestling 'heel' bit - I think it was on Colmes radio show or TV show or whatever it is.

Pericles  posted on  2015-02-05   16:49:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#104. To: Pericles, GarySpFC (#102)

No. There is no solid intel. Bush, the president of the US of A himself finally stated that Saddam did not have any weapons to tranfer. Join the reality based community.

Not Bush, not Cheney, not Rice, not Powell.

They all deny it. But guys out on teh interwebs know they're just lying...for what reason exactly? So they can look like war criminals and incompetents that lied the country into a war that has destabilized and destroyed the entire Mideast?

We know the payoff for them ginning up the danger of Saddam's WMD. But where's the payoff for them lying about Saddam not having WMD?

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-05   20:34:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#105. To: TooConservative, Pericles, Sneakypete, Redleghunter, *SOCOM* (#104) (Edited)

You might recall I recently mentioned that I contacted a former UDT man in my neighborhood regarding Jesse Ventura's status as a SEAL. He just drove by my house and stopped. My neighbor chuckled and said, "I had an idea why you contacted me." He stated neither he nor Jesse Ventura are considered SEALS. It may be that many in the SEAL community give them that respect, because they were the forerunners of the SEALS. However, there is a big difference between the two groups. Former UDT are NOT SEALS.

“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org

GarySpFC  posted on  2015-02-06   15:38:29 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#106. To: GarySpFC (#105)

He stated neither he nor Jesse Ventura are considered SEALS.

Well then, straight from the horse's mouth.

Tooconservative  posted on  2015-02-06   16:15:35 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#107. To: TooConservative (#106)

Well then, straight from the horse's mouth.

I will be more than happy to give you his phone number so you can quiz him.

“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org

GarySpFC  posted on  2015-02-06   16:26:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#108. To: TooConservative (#106) (Edited)

UDT and SEALS can be members of the same association, but that does not make former UDT SEALS. https://www.udtseal.org/

Likewise, the following can join the Special Forces Association, but that does not make them Special Forces (Green Berets).

a. 1st Special Service Force, August 1942 to December 1944.
b. OSS Detachment 101, April 1942 to September 1945.
c. OSS Jedburgh Detachments, May 1944 to May 1945.
d. OSS Operational Groups, May 1944 to May 1945.
e. OSS Maritime Unit, April 1942 to September 1945.
f. 6th Army Special Reconnaissance Unit (Alamo Scouts), February 1944 to September 1945.
g. 8240th Army Unit, June 1950 to July 1953.

“Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org

GarySpFC  posted on  2015-02-06   16:35:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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