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911 Audio and video Title: 911 Busted: Lead NIST Engineer caught lying about Molten Metal 9/11 Incontrovertible Proof the Government is Lying
John Gross, NIST= Liar Post Comment Private Reply Ignore Thread Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest #1. To: Operation 40, Gatlin (#0) John Gross, NIST= Liar How many lies about the events of 9/11 propagated by the government is that now? I've lost count. Even the official 9/11 commission report was debunked by the members as a "pack of lies". Yet, the Fairy Tale Cultists (those who believe the government/MSM narrative) still won't accept the facts. “Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul![]() Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.Paul Craig Roberts#2. To: Operation 40 (#0) Bull! The heat from the fires was hot enough to weaken the steel, and with the weight of the forces involved I don't doubt for a second the steel beams were bent. That said, there is no way any demolitionist would have used thermite or thermate in the demolition process. The Truthers are committed to the thermite- thermite agenda and will jump off cliffs to perpetuate a lie. “Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org #3. To: Deckard, Operation 40, Palmdale (#1) It’s happened to all of us. Some friend we had in elementary school or from an old job is all of a sudden making super weird comments on Facebook, or you’re in a bar and some random is trying to talk to you about fluoride for some reason. It’s not always immediately clear. Like, I realized one day that people saying crazy things were always following it up with “Do your own research!” and then finally discovered that it was sort of a “buzzphrase” for conspiracy theorists. So, I thought I’d compile a list of the ways to know that someone in your life is starting to head down to tin foil hat alley. 1. Says insane thing (probably about chemtrails), and if you dispute, insists that you “Do your own research!”
#4. To: Gatlin (#3) Like, I realized one day that people saying crazy things were always following it up with “Do your own research!” CTs and progs use the same playbook. "The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts #5. To: GarySpFC (#2) The heat from the fires was hot enough to weaken the steel...
#6. To: Palmdale (#4) They are so predictable.
#7. To: Gatlin (#5) Slam dunk! "The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts #8. To: Operation 40 (#0) Sorry man, for pinging Gatlin. I should have known that the other Fairy Tale Cultists/disinformation trolls would show up as well “Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul![]() Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.Paul Craig Roberts#9. To: GarySpFC (#2) Unignited thermite was found in dust and debris from the demolition of the 3 towers. Thermite does not just occur in nature. It's man-made. I could make a better case for my theory of what happened that day than you could for that fairy tale the neo- cons are trying to foist upon the world.
#10. To: Gatlin, GarySpFC, Operation40, A K A Stone (#3) Workers Reported Molten Metal in Ground Zero Rubble Corroborating ReportsThere are reports of molten steel beyond those cited by American Free Press. Most of these have come to light as a result of a research paper by Professor Steven E Jones, which has stimulated interest in the subject of molten steel at Ground Zero. * A report by Waste Age describes New York Sanitation Department workers moving "everything from molten steel beams to human remains." 2 A report on the Government Computer News website quotes Greg Fuchek, vice president of sales for LinksPoint Inc. as stating: In the first few weeks, sometimes when a worker would pull a steel beam from the wreckage, the end of the beam would be dripping molten steel 3 A Messenger-Inquirer report recounts the experiences of Bronx firefighter "Toolie" O'Toole, who stated that some of the beams lifted from deep within the catacombs of Ground Zero by cranes were "dripping from the molten steel." 4 A transcription of an audio interview of Ground Zero chaplain Herb Trimpe contains the following passage: When I was there, of course, the remnants of the towers were still standing. It looked like an enormous junkyard. A scrap metal yard, very similar to that. Except this was still burning. There was still fire. On the cold days, even in January, there was a noticeable difference between the temperature in the middle of the site than there was when you walked two blocks over on Broadway. You could actually feel the heat. The fires burned, up to 2,000 degrees, underground for quite a while before they actually got down to those areas and they cooled off. A report in the Johns Hopkins Public Health Magazine about recovery work in late October quotes Alison Geyh, Ph.D., as stating: Fires are still actively burning and the smoke is very intense. In some pockets now being uncovered, they are finding molten steel. 6 A publication by the National Environmental Health Association quotes Ron Burger, a public health advisor at the National Center for Environmental Health, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, who arrived at Ground Zero on the evening of September 12th. Burger stated: Feeling the heat, seeing the molten steel, the layers upon layers of ash, like lava, it reminded me of Mt. St. Helen’s and the thousands who fled that disaster. 7 An article in The Newsletter of the Structural Engineers Association of Utah describing a speaking appearance by Leslie Robertson (structural engineer responsible for the design of the World Trade Center) contains this passage: As of 21 days after the attack, the fires were still burning and molten steel was still running. 8
“Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul![]() Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.Paul Craig Roberts#11. To: Logsplitter (#9) Unignited thermite was found in dust
"The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts #12. To: Logsplitter (#9) Unignited thermite was found in dust and debris from the demolition of the 3 towers. Thermite does not just occur in nature. It's man-made. I could make a better case for my theory of what happened that day than you could for that fairy tale the neo- cons are trying to foist upon the world. I'm a former demolitionist, and I'm very familiar with thermite and thermate, and its limitations. You cannot cut a column with with either one. Yes, I know there's a video on YouTube how to cut a steel column with one or the other, but it ignores several problems. The main problem is that when you're trying to cut a column the thermite will create a small hole and then pour out before completing a cut. “Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org #13. To: Palmdale (#11) I don't need to watch that clip to know it's drivel, Palmjob. There are enough holes in your story to keep the Pacific fleet satisfied for eternity.
#14. To: Logsplitter (#9) BTW, thermite, thermate, or nano-thermite burns very quickly, and to suggest fires from it were burning a week later is insane. “Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org #15. To: Logsplitter (#13) Hi, lubey.
#16. To: Gatlin (#15) Nah, lubes is a douchebag. I'm a much more formidable foe than him.
#17. To: Logsplitter (#16) :)
#18. To: Logsplitter (#13) I don't need to watch that clip Ya gotta protect your ignorance. "The biggest mistake that libertarians make is the way they view government and private sectors. Government is the root of all evil, and the private sector is the source of all good. Libertarians have never figured out that people are the same whether in the government or in the private sector." --Paul Craig Roberts #19. To: GarySpFC (#2) Bull! The heat from the fires was hot enough to weaken the steel, and with the weight of the forces involved I don't doubt for a second the steel beams were bent. That said, there is no way any demolitionist would have used thermite or thermate in the demolition process. The Truthers are committed to the thermite- thermite agenda and will jump off cliffs to perpetuate a lie. That's correct. The novel construction of the building was not equipped to handle it.
Notice to 9-ll truthers. Don't align your selves with stupidity in attempts to attribute blame to the federal government. If you do, when the time comes that you actually have something intelligent to say, you will be dismissed.
#20. To: rlk (#19) That's correct. The novel construction of the building was not equipped to handle it. The Truthers claim the steel melted, but in reality what happened was it was just weakened. There simply wasn't enough heat there to melt steel beams or columns. “Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org #21. To: GarySpFC (#20) (Edited) The Truthers claim the steel melted, but in reality what happened was it was just weakened. Balderdash! The towers fell straight down into their own footprints. If your scenario was correct, the building would have tipped over at the point of impact and Then collapsed. And the original article, the molten steel that was found in the rubble weeks afterward? Workers Reported Molten Metal in Ground Zero Rubble Maybe you should stick to selling insurance "Gary". “Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul![]() Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.Paul Craig Roberts#22. To: Deckard (#21) “But they fell straight down into their own footprint.” PROTEC COMMENT: They did not. They followed the path of least resistance, and there was a lot of resistance. Any discussion of how the towers fell on 9/11 requires a fundamental understanding of how buildings collapse and an examination of the damage inflicted upon adjacent structures that morning. With very few exceptions, a tall office building (i.e., 20+ stories) cannot be made to tip over like a tree. Reinforced concrete smokestacks and industrial towers can, due to their small footprint and inherently monolithic properties. However, because the supporting elements in a typical human-inhabited building are spread over a larger area to accommodate living and work space, they are not nearly as rigid, and the laws of gravity cause them to begin collapsing downward upon being weakened or tipped off center to a certain point. Blasters are well aware of this and often rely on this principle in designing upper-floor charge patterns to maximize breakage and in predicting debris drop zones. “Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org #23. To: GarySpFC (#22) Uh, numerous firefighters and first responders heard explosions. Your "theory" is nothing but hot air. “Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul![]() Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.Paul Craig Roberts#24. To: Deckard (#21) ASSERTION #5 “An explosive other than conventional dynamite or RDX was used...a non- detonating compound such as thermite (aka thermate), which gets very hot upon initiation and can basically ‘melt’ steel. This can be proven by photographs of molten steel taken at Ground Zero, the temperature and duration of underground fires, and comments made by rescue workers.”
PROTEC COMMENT: We have come across no evidence to support this claim. This claim is actually a loose connection of unrelated individual assertions, therefore we must address them as such. “Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org #25. To: Deckard (#23) Hot air comes from those who don't have a clue regarding the nature of explosives. “Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org #26. To: GarySpFC (#25) Hot air comes from those who don't have a clue regarding the nature of explosives. Well, excuse me for not trusting some anonymous poster on an obscure chat site who "claims" to have demolition experience and also regurgitates the official government fairy tale concerning 9/11. It's likely that you are a disinformation operative. “Truth is treason in the empire of lies.” - Ron Paul![]() Americans who have no experience with, or knowledge of, tyranny believe that only terrorists will experience the unchecked power of the state. They will believe this until it happens to them, or their children, or their friends.Paul Craig Roberts#27. To: Gatlin, Deckard (#3) You ignored the NIST engineer completely and instead spammed the thread with a bunch of authoritarian nonsense. Did you even bother to watch the video? Why am I not surprised at your "reaction"? Why did the NIST representative lie and condescend to the citizen asking questions? Do you think the NIST rep actually didn't know about the molten metal?
#28. To: GarySpFC (#2) The heat from the fires was hot enough to weaken the steel, and with the weight of the forces involved I don't doubt for a second the steel beams were bent. And how many other times in all of history has a fire caused a steel framed building to collapse? For example:
The Beijing Television Cultural Center fire was a massive blaze on 9 February 2009, in the centre of Beijing, involving the uncompleted Television Cultural Center (TVCC) building There are countless examples just like the above. Yet there are NO examples of fire causing a steel framed building to collapse. Even NIST Says the exact same thing
8. Why did WTC 7 collapse, while no other known building in history has collapsed due to fires alone? You HAVE read the official NIST reports, haven't you?
#29. To: Operation 40 (#28) Why did WTC 7 collapse, while no other known building in history has collapsed due to fires alone? Firstly, WTC 1 & 2 sustained extensive damage from airplanes plowing through columns within the buildings. This was in addition to the fires.
When the North Tower collapsed, heavy debris hit WTC 7, causing damage to the south face of the building and starting fires that continued to burn throughout the afternoon. Structural damage occurred to the southwest corner between Floors 7 and 17 and on the south face between Floor 44 and the roof; other possible structural damage includes a large vertical gash near the center of the south face between Floors 24 and 41. So to say WTC 7 collapse due to fire alone ignores the facts. “Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org #30. To: Deckard (#26) The laws of physics were suspended that day, which explains why commercial jets were able to fly 150 mph faster than than their maximum speed.
#31. To: GarySpFC (#29) heavy debris hit WTC 7, causing damage to the south face of the building and starting fires that continued to burn throughout the afternoon. Structural damage occurred to the southwest corner between Floors 7 and 17 and on the south face between Floor 44 and the roof; other possible structural damage includes a large vertical gash near the center of the south face between Floors 24 and 41. So to say WTC 7 collapse due to fire alone ignores the facts. So you don't agree with the Official Conspiracy Theory™, which says that it was the fires alone. Interesting. If you'd at least take a few minutes to read the NIST FAQ (or take longer and read the full report) you would know that. Why won't people do the basics?
21. Did debris from the collapse of WTC 1 cause damage to WTC 7's structure in a way that contributed to the building's collapse? The Official Conspiracy Theory™ says you're wrong about one of the fundamentals. Study up and try again? There's this too: The Offical NIST FAQ states that the structure fell in free fall for 2.25 seconds. Three distinct stages characterizing the 5.4 seconds of collapse: How does that happen, especially keeping in mind that the structural damage didn't cause the collapse - per the Official Conspiracy Theory™? How does a 47 story building collapse in 5.4 seconds due to heat causing a girder to "thermally expand"? Has it ever happened before? No? Isn't that interesting.
#32. To: Operation 40 (#28) 8. Why did WTC 7 collapse, while no other known building in history has collapsed due to fires alone? The collapse of WTC 7 is the first known instance of a tall building brought down primarily by uncontrolled fires. The fires in WTC 7 were similar to those that have occurred in several tall buildings where the automatic sprinklers did not function or were not present. These other buildings, including Philadelphia's One Meridian Plaza, a 38-story skyscraper that burned for 18 hours in 1991, did not collapse due to differences in the design of the structural system (see the answer to Question 9). http://www.nist.gov/el/disasterstudies/wtc/faqs_wtc7.cfm WTC 7, 1, and 2 did not collapse due to fires alone, but due to significant damage and fire. “Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org #33. To: Operation 40 (#0) Argument against molten metal being picked up by an excavator or grapple, or other hydraulic equipment. http://z15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/ar/t12084.htm Complete article at: 2 U.S. Reports Seek to Counter Conspiracy Theories About 9/11 By Jim Dwyer
Professor Jones also argues that the molten steel found in the rubble was evidence of demolition explosives because an ordinary airplane fire would not generate enough heat. He cited photographs of construction equipment removing debris that appeared to be red. Dr. Judy Wood, at page 266 of her book, Where Did the Towers Go? agrees with the wording of Jim Dwyer that the photo image of construction equipment showed debris that "appeared to be red." She notes that "an optical camera, not a thermal imaging camera, captures the color, not the temperature of the objects in the photograph." At page 267, Dr. Wood observes that, "The molten steel story appears on the evidence to be exactly that—a story. Certainly, it is a very different thing from the abundant recorded and observable evidence of glowing metal. We saw the chart that shows the maximum temperatures at which hydraulic systems can be operated. That chart supports what NYT reporter Jim Dwyer said. ... The crucial facts, however, support Dwyer—namely, that high temperatures would have permanentl damaged if not destroyer hydraulic equipment. The facts are well-established and available in mechanical engineering handbooks as well as on the internet." http://www.macinerylubrication.com/article_detail.asp?articleid=772 Brendan Casey, Hydraulic Equipment Reliability Beyond Contamination Control, Machinery Lubrication, July 2005 [excerpt]
Hydraulic fluid temperatures above 82°C (180ºF) damage most seal compounds and accelerate oil degradation. A single overtemperature event of sufficient magnitude can permanently damage all the seals in an entire hydraulic system, resulting in numerous leaks. The by-products of thermal degradation of the oil (soft particles) can cause reliability problems such as valve-spool stiction and filter clogging
#34. To: Logsplitter (#9) Unignited thermite was found in dust and debris from the demolition of the 3 towers. Thermite does not just occur in nature. It's man-made.
What was reported to have been found in the dust samples from lower was thermitic material. Dr. Judy Wood discusses the nature of thermitic material at page 124 of her book, Where Did the Towers Go? Thermitic material is what thermite is made of. She asks if finding chocolate, sugar and nano-wheat (flour) in the dust would prove the existence of chocolate chip cookies in the building. The buildings contained aluminum cladding and iron, the significant component of steel. Iron dust exposed to atmospheric conditions rapidly yields iron oxide, i.e., rust. Finding constituents of the building in the dust does not show that they were previously combined in some manner. Finding the constitutents of the building in the dust does provide proof that much of the building and what was in it were reduced to dust or powder. Any viable theory must explain what reduced the building and contents to powder. The report is "Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe," by Niels H. Harrit, Jeffrey Farrer, Steven E. Jones, Kevin R. Ryan, Frank M. Legge, Daniel Farnsworth, Gregg Roberts, James R. Gourley, Bradley R. Larsen. The Open Chemical Physics Journal, Volume 2, pp. 7-31, However, see how how the editor resigned after this article was published and how the Bentham scientific "scientific" and "peer reviewed" journal was discredited by publishing a computer generated nonsense article. See the Wiki article for general info and another phony article stiong. http://legacy.earlham.edu/~peters/fos/2009/06/bentham-editors-resign.html http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2009/06/bentham-journals-get-punkd-again.html Below is from the Wiki entry for Bentham: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bentham_Science_Publishers
Bentham Science Publishers is a publishing company of scientific, technical, and medical literature based at Sharjah (United Arab Emirates). Bentham publishes more than 116 subscription-based academic journals and over 230 open access journals and e-books. Bentham Science Publishers has operating units in United States, Japan, China, India, and the Netherlands. Its open access branch, Bentham Open Science, has received attention for its questionable peer-review practices.
#35. To: GarySpFC, Deckard (#22)
[PROTEC comment] One primary difference between these two collapses and a typical building implosion was that the initial failures occurred very high up on the structures, which lead to an extended-duration “pancake-like” effect down to the ground. Argument against the officially abandoned "pancake theory" of collapse. http://the-peoples-forum.com/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=15852&Disp=138#C138
#138. To: ghostcommander (#131)
#36. To: GarySpFC (#32) WTC 7, 1, and 2 did not collapse due to fires alone, but due to significant damage and fire. So, when it comes to WTC7 you don't believe the official conspiracy theory. Got it.
#37. To: Logsplitter (#30) The laws of physics were suspended that day, which explains why commercial jets were able to fly 150 mph faster than than their maximum speed. I have have often wondered how GWBuah read his book to the classroom during his visit to an elementary school:
The world was turned up-side-down that fateful day?
#38. To: nolu chan (#35) I have fought this nonsense almost from the beginning, and it makes my blood boil that the people supporting the conspiracy theory don't realize that they are enabling Al Qaeda and similar groups. What they are doing is evil. You can believe what you want I'm finished trying to reason with brick walls. “Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org #39. To: GarySpFC (#38)
I have fought this nonsense almost from the beginning, and it makes my blood boil that the people supporting the conspiracy theory don't realize that they are enabling Al Qaeda and similar groups. "I do not know of a plausible theory that explains all the observed phenomena." I did not know a plausible theory in 2009 and I do not know one today. I fail to see how that could make me either a "truther" (however that is defined) or an Al Qaeda enabler. Your complaint assumes that men with box cutters and were responsible for the destruction of 1 through 7 WTC. You assume that anyone who does not accept your favorite physically impossible conspiracy theory must accept some other theory you believe, or know, to be wrong. And you accuse anyone not accepting your favorite conspiracy theory of "enabling Al Qaeda and similar groups." Ruling out accident or natural causes, unless you believe that 9/11 was the result of a lone person, you must believe that it was the result of a conspiracy. Whether it be the official NIST conspiracy theory, your favorite pancake theory, or any "truther" conspiracy theory, it is a conspiracy theory. As for what you refer to as "the conspiracy," I have no idea of which one of the many you refer to. The official government conspiracy theories have not fared well with those who require that a theory consider all observed physical phenonema and comply with all known laws of physics. I have declined to support any theory that violates the laws of physics and is impossible. The pancake theory has been proven impossible. That does not infer that any other theory has been shown to be correct. As stated, and quoted, the government was forced to abandon the pancake theory. http://www.nist.gov/el/disasterstudies/wtc/faqs_wtctowers.cfm
NIST’s findings do not support the “pancake theory” of collapse, which is premised on a progressive failure of the floor systems in the WTC towers (the composite floor system—that connected the core columns and the perimeter columns—consisted of a grid of steel “trusses” integrated with a concrete slab; see diagram). Instead, the NIST investigation showed conclusively that the failure of the inwardly bowed perimeter columns initiated collapse and that the occurrence of this inward bowing required the sagging floors to remain connected to the columns and pull the columns inwards. Thus, the floors did not fail progressively to cause a pancaking phenomenon. The replacement government conspiracy theory, the NIST theory, if one can call it that, is incomplete and does not address mid-air pulverization. Before the conclusion of who did it, and how they did it, comes the investigation of the observed events and the physical evidence to determine, as best possible, what happened. The Congressional mandate to NIST was:
1. Determine why and how WTC 1 and WTC 2 collapsed following the initial impacts of the aircraft and why and how WTC 7 collapsed. Determining how the buildings "collapsed" is not what NIST did.
The focus of the Investigation was on the sequence of events from the instant of aircraft impact to the initiation of collapse for each tower. For brevity in this report, this sequence is referred to as the“probable collapse sequence,”although it includes little analysis of the structural behavior of the tower after the conditions for collapse initiation were reached and collapse became inevitable. The NIST WTC 1&2 report analysis goes to the point of initiation of collapse and assumes a gravity driven collapse in less than 10 seconds. The actual collapse sequence is a hypothetical. Through this artifice, it neatly sidesteps the need to explain the miracle step that suspended the laws of physics, or what was plainly observed as the buildings, and contents (minus one filing cabinet), were pulverized from the top to the bottom. When challenged, NIST admitted that they did not analyze the collapses themselves.
To facilitate communication, the term "collapse" as used in this letter and in NCSTAR 1 means a falling in, loss of shape, or reduction to flattened form or rubble of a structure. As stated in NCSTAR 1, NIST only investigated the factors leading to the initiation of the collapses of the WTC towers, not the collapses themselves. (underline added) NIST ltr of 17 Jul 2007 to Dr. Judy Wood, page 1 "Collapse," as used by NIST means in any manner to be flattened or reduced to rubble. Under this descriptive term, blowing the building up one floor at a time, from top to bottom would be a collapse. Smashing it with Thor's hammer would be a collapse.
Similarly, NCSTAR 1-5 and 1-6 (and the associated technical topic reports) document the analysis of the fire growth and spread, the thennal analysis, and the response of the damaged structures to fire loads up to the point of collapse initiation. Id. at 1-2. (underline added) How the buildings could come down in the time observed, less than 10 seconds, is not addressed by an investigation which only extends up to the point of collapse initiation. Never explained by the government or the "truther" movement is the observed phenomena of the pulverization of the building and contents in mid-air, nor how the lower building provided little more resistance than air. In a collapse where the falling floor is pulverized upon striking the lower floor, the lower floor must present a great deal of resistance. If the lower floor moves out of the way while offering little or no resistance, there can be no mid-air pulverization of the upper floor due to the collision. Energy cannot be transferred in excess of the amount of resistance. Any energy expended in pulverization of the falling upper floor is not available for downforce. Such expended energy must slow the rate of descent. If the downforce was enough to pulverize all that came down, it is hard to explain how the Warner Brothers store in the first subbasement survived intact, along with Foghorn Leghorn, Bugs Bunny and Roadrunner. What was magic about the ground floor? http://rolandopujol.tumblr.com/post/31215494887/photos-the-stories-behind-the-haunting-relics-of Explosives cutting columns does not explain pulverization. You are correct in rejecting thermite. As noted before, thermitic material was reportedly found. That was components of thermite, aluminum and iron oxide (rust). It would be surprising if aluminum and rust were not found as the building contained aluminum and steel. As for the samples from Manhattan, they were of undisclosed origin, thus lacking provenance, and were not made available for independent or government study. In any case, as you noted, thermite is not an explosive. It may be used in some industrial welding processes. A significant military application is for emergency destruction, e.g., for weapons or crypto equipment. It is an incendiary. Mini-nukes or thermobaric weapons in the basement have been thrown out there for consideration. They do not deserve much consideration. There is more than one reason, but the emergence of 14 survivors from Stairway B of 1WTC should be sufficient. The observed, but unexplained, phenomena are plentiful. The dust clouds at ground level caught up with fleeing people and did not burn anyone. Cars appear to be burning but are surrounded by paper which did not burn. Cars and heavy trucks are flipped over next to trees whose leaves are intact. Vehicles exhibit burned exteriors with rubber window gaskets, seatbelts, and upholstery intact. As each tower is still going down, a large plume of powder or dust from pulverized material goes upward. What caused that? One guy hung out of a window on the 105th story and took off his pants. Lots of people took off their clothes before jumping. Why?
#40. To: nolu chan (#39) (Edited) I have declined to support any theory that violates the laws of physics and is impossible. The pancake theory has been proven impossible. That does not infer that any other theory has been shown to be correct. I have never paid one bit of attention to the NIST or government report. I fully agree with PROTEC's report. PROTEC is the Professional Demolitionist's Association. ASSERTION #1 “The towers’ collapse looked exactly like explosive demolitions.” PROTEC COMMENT: No they didn’t. It’s the “where.”When discussing similarities between the towers’ collapse and an explosive demolition, many people overlook the single question most central to any objective investigation. It is not “how” or “when” the buildings failed, but “where” they failed. That answer holds the key to understanding almost everything that occurred at Ground Zero. ASSERTION #2 “Let no one mourn that he has fallen again and again; for forgiveness has risen, from the grave.” John Chrysostom www.evidenceforJesusChrist.org Top • Page Up • Full Thread • Page Down • Bottom/Latest |
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