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Title: So, you claim to be a Born Again Christian
Source: ChristianPatriot.com
URL Source: [None]
Published: Jan 23, 2015
Author: Pastor Bob Celeste for ACP
Post Date: 2015-01-23 12:29:48 by BobCeleste
Keywords: Salvation, Christianity
Views: 30750
Comments: 90

Friday, January 23, 2015 Remember me,

Salvation, John 3:3

So, you claim to be a Born Again Christian, fine, but are you?

Are you one of the many, who while professing to be Born Again find nothing wrong with homosexual sex? Are you amongst the 49% who believe there is nothing wrong with two people living together outside of marriage? Are you part of the one out of three that find the killing of a baby trapped in the womb to be morally acceptable? Are you part of the group that believe that Jesus is your friend and not your master? Are you one of the over 50% who say the Jesus did not live a sinless life, deny the virgin birth, or deny absolute truth of the Bible? Well, if you said yes to any of the above, you are not Saved and going to hell.

Let me paraphrase John 3:3 for you, "Be Born Again or go to hell!" Yes that is a perfect paraphrase of John 3:3.

Now let's look at the Greek word philos, pronounced fee'-los, it means dear, i.e. a friend. It is found 27 times in the New Testament, in not one of those verses is it found in reference to Jesus, not once do we find anyone in the New Testament calling Jesus "friend". Not one of the Apostles call the Lord friend. James, the half brother of the Lord referred to himself as "James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ". Not James, the half brother of the Lord, but James the servant of the Lord.

In the Greek it is, James [Iakobos], a servant [doulos] of God [theos] and [kai] of the Lord [Kurios] Jesus [Iesous] Christ [Christos]... The Greek word doulos, pronounced doo'-los means, a slave (literal or figurative, involuntary or voluntary; frequently, therefore in a qualified sense of subjection or subserviency):--bond(-man), servant. Not a friend, not a half brother, but slave, bond servant, obeyer of all orders and commands given by the Lord Jesus. Yet over fifty percent of all those calling themselves Born Again, claim that Jesus is their friend, not their master, but their friend, not their owner, but their friend. So, how could they have given their life to the Lord? How can they be Born Again? And if they are not truly Born Again, how can they go anywhere other than the lake of fire?

First we are going to look at the only Scripturally defined method of being Born Again, for the Lord Jesus Christ said in John 3:3, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God! To often that sentence is ended with a period, it is and exclamation, it is a matter of fact, it is not arbitrary, it is an absolute, it means simply this, unless you are Born Again, as defined by Scripture, no matter how good a life you live, you are not even going to see the inside of heaven, you are going to spend eternity in the lake of fire with the devil and it's.

look, if you are one of the very many who said some canned so called Prayer of Salvation and did not comply, 100%, with what The Lord Jesus acknowledge as Born Again, you are not going to heaven, you are going to the lake of fire, I don't know how I can be any clearer. I don't care what the pope says, I don't care what so called Evangelical leaders say, I only care what He, who went up on the cross for us, He who left His kingdom in heaven and came to earth to offer us the one and only way to eternal peace and love with Him in heaven, has to say. And if any who disagree ca find Scripture to contradict this dire warning, so be it, let them do it, but as for those who start by disagreeing with denominational garbage or commentary by others, don't waste your time.


Later today, we are going to look at the one and only Scriptural method of being Born Again.

For those who disagree, prove your point with Scripture or offer yourself on a cross for me and I'll consider what you have to say.

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#24. To: BobCeleste (#0)

Not much place for me in this discussion, but I'll say this:

It defies logic that what a physical brain decides, in good faith, is truth would determine the eternal fate of the connected soul. If God is all powerful and all wise, and all loving, surely he could come up with a better plan for his children than portrayed with the "believe this or burn forever" model.

Under the Michael Newton theological model, one's academic theology is of little importance. Further, life along with all it's tragedy and joy, along with the universe we live in serve a very pragmatic purpose. On both of these points the Newton model works much better. There's more love from God, and more purpose to life, just as much accountability, and complete free will.

Pinguinite  posted on  2015-01-24   14:59:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Vicomte13 (#22)

Remember that the wind/spirit of God brooded over the waters in Genesis 1. Remember "Pneuma Hagion" - Holy Spirit, is Holy Breath, or Holy Wind.

Remember, God blew breath/wind/spirit into Adam's nostrils, and he became a breather, a nephesh, a "living soul".

When you are begotten again, the Father's spirit comes upon you and he becomes your Father in Heaven (and you are released from your father, Satan, of the earth).

Excellent points. It's right there in front of Nicodemus as he knew the very scriptures Christ was pointing him to.

"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;" (Revelation 5:9)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-01-24   15:05:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: redleghunter (#25)

But nicodemus had no clue about spiritual matters. That's what jesus is trying to tell him.

Nicodemus says, we (the pharisees) 'know' or 'perceive' you are from god because blah, blah, blah.

And jesus says, Unless you've had god's spirit renew you, you can not 'perceive' or 'know' anything about god's kingdom.

Nicodemus didn't have a clue what he was talking about.

So jesus gave him some more.

And nicodemus says, how can these things be? Or what the heck are you talking about?

And jesus says, you're a master of Israel and you don't know these things?

Really, quite an interesting conversation. Note, to translate all this as 'be born again or go to hell' is laughable.

Also, get vicomte to explain how from verse 13 on, it's john speaking, not red letter jesus. That's quite interesting too.

Biff Tannen  posted on  2015-01-24   18:10:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: SOSO (#16)

Has God not already decided? If not how do you explain predestination ?

To the extent that there is no linearity of time for God as understood by man, i.e. He knows the past, present and future, you tell me?

If not how do you explain predestination?

I don't explain it. If everything was predestined then what is the purpose of God creating man to being with? If a man's fate is predestined then there is no such thing as free will.

While you are at it, please tell me why did God create and and the pyshical universe in which man resides?

I think if you spent a bit more time in Bible study you might find your answers.

My only goal now is to show Scripturally, what one must do to be Born again.

BobCeleste  posted on  2015-01-24   18:52:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: Biff Tannen (#21)

Biff are you or are you not a Born Again Washed in the Blood of the Lamb Christian?

Until you answer that, we have nothing else to discuss, you are certainly welcome to read what I post, but none of your comments will be addressed till you answer that question and if you say yes, then the question of what did you do to get Saved.

Titus 3:10

BobCeleste  posted on  2015-01-24   18:59:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: Pinguinite (#24)

It defies logic that what a physical brain decides, in good faith, is truth would determine the eternal fate of the connected soul. If God is all powerful and all wise, and all loving, surely he could come up with a better plan for his children than portrayed with the "believe this or burn forever" model.

God's plan of salvation is so easy, so straight forward and so absolute so as to allow no one to say it is unfair.

It is the only plan that allows a quadrapalegic that can move no part of his or her body, not even eye lids, to get saved It allows a man or woman, boy or girl any where in the world to do it. It cost no money and requires nothing in return that even the poorest wrench or most powerful multi billionaire cannot afford to do.

And you say it defies logic? Tell me what about the simple requirement that you must be born again, defies logic? Do you know what Born Again is?

BobCeleste  posted on  2015-01-24   19:05:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: BobCeleste (#28)

We have nothing to discuss anyway. You aren't much for listening and thinking.

Biff Tannen  posted on  2015-01-24   19:27:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: Biff Tannen (#26)

But nicodemus had no clue about spiritual matters. That's what jesus is trying to tell him.

Nicodemus says, we (the pharisees) 'know' or 'perceive' you are from god because blah, blah, blah.

And jesus says, Unless you've had god's spirit renew you, you can not 'perceive' or 'know' anything about god's kingdom.

Nicodemus didn't have a clue what he was talking about.

So jesus gave him some more.

And nicodemus says, how can these things be? Or what the heck are you talking about?

And jesus says, you're a master of Israel and you don't know these things?

Really, quite an interesting conversation. Note, to translate all this as 'be born again or go to hell' is laughable.

Also, get vicomte to explain how from verse 13 on, it's john speaking, not red letter jesus. That's quite interesting too.

Well I have to say you boil it down good.

From verse 13 on? I remember that discussion with Vic back here a few years ago. From what I remember, Vic was not dogmatic in his view nor did he downgrade the inspired nature of the text.

However, you missed one part of the dialogue between Jesus and Nicodemus:

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

What happens to folks who don't get to see the kingdom of God? That is explained in verses 13-21 and beyond. Not to mention in all 4 gospels.

"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;" (Revelation 5:9)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-01-24   20:19:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: BobCeleste (#29)

God's plan of salvation is so easy, so straight forward and so absolute so as to allow no one to say it is unfair.

. . . .

And you say it defies logic? Tell me what about the simple requirement that you must be born again, defies logic? Do you know what Born Again is?

I am indeed familiar with the christian concept of being born again.

The theology of christian salvation is indeed straight forward. What is illogical is that God would have created a master plan that would have required salvation from eternal damnation, thereby resulting in so many of his beloved children to end up in a pit of eternal pain for all eternity.

Even earthly parents love their children so much that no matter how horrible the crimes they commit, they never give up on them. And we are to believe God would love his children less than the amount mortal parents love theirs?

Or if we are to believe that he does indeed love us eternally, that he actually loves his master plan more? Or perhaps that he is bound by his own nature and cannot help but let his kids burn forever, which flies in the face of being "all powerful"?

It is this point which defies logic. If God is indeed all-powerful, all knowing and all wise, then surely he could have come up with a better plan than this.

And I believe he did.

Pinguinite  posted on  2015-01-25   4:32:24 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: redleghunter (#31)

No, I didn't miss it. It got lost in translation.

As to what happens to those who can't see the kingdom of god, they're blind ... Until they can see. Which we and others can help with. But screaming at people that they are going to burn doesn't help any one.

And that's not what was jesus was doing, in john 3 or any where.

Do you think people loved him and were fascinated by him because of threats? And perhaps he even had the right and position to threaten. But we don't.

Biff Tannen  posted on  2015-01-25   8:44:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: Biff Tannen (#33)

And that's not what was jesus was doing, in john 3 or any where.

Do you think people loved him and were fascinated by him because of threats? And perhaps he even had the right and position to threaten. But we don't.

John chapter 1 tells us the following:

John 1:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.(KJV)

Then this from John 3:

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.(KJV)

"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;" (Revelation 5:9)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-01-25   12:16:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: redleghunter (#34)

We can cut and paste scriptures all day It's not productive.

Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, saying, The scribes and the Pharisees ...

For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,

And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi

But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Tannen out.

Biff Tannen  posted on  2015-01-25   13:22:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Biff Tannen (#35)

A most appropriate entry.

The laws and religion of man can be burdensome.

"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;" (Revelation 5:9)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-01-25   21:08:07 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: redleghunter, Biff Tannen (#36)

A most appropriate entry.

The laws and religion of man can be burdensome.

Is it God's command on us to have the laws and religion of man be in perfect harmony with each other? Jesus clearly understood that He lived in a world of manmade laws to which there would be consequences if He did not obey. From what we can tell He obeyed most, if not all of them. Did He not pay taxes when due and urge others to do the same? Did He not tell slaves to obey their human masters? No doubt He was perfectly clear that when man's law was in conflict with God's law the latter was to obeyed over the former. And He preached charity but on an individual basis not on the state. He willfully subjected Himself to the law of man knowing full well that it would cost Him his human life.

Ever society has struggled with less than perfect success to have its moral precepts reflected in its laws. Islam may come closest to achieving this than any western society but I don't know enough about that religion to express a well informed opinion.

For sure, in all western societies some things that are religiously moral are illegal and some that are legal are religiously immoral.

SOSO  posted on  2015-01-25   21:26:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: SOSO (#37)

My point was in response to the burdensome practices of the Pharisees.

They were so into their man-made rules that one each Nicodemus could not see the forest for the trees. I know that is idiomatic.

"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;" (Revelation 5:9)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-01-25   21:45:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: redleghunter (#38)

My point was in response to the burdensome practices of the Pharisees.

OK, so what about my point?

SOSO  posted on  2015-01-25   21:47:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: SOSO (#39)

OK, so what about my point?

Off subject.

"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;" (Revelation 5:9)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-01-26   0:14:12 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#41. To: SOSO (#37)

Did He not pay taxes when due and urge others to do the same?

I thought he said give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is Gods.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-01-26   0:43:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#42. To: Biff Tannen (#30)

Biff, twice in the past two months I found myself in the VA ER facing death, both times the ER staff forced me to make a statement of how far they were to go to revive me, in both instance my chances of survival were under 10%, when faced with almost certain death one has to face the fact that they will be facing Christ very soon, in both instances I was able to tell the ER staff that I knew where I was going and that my life was in Christ hands and needed no special effort on their part for if He wanted me to stay I would stay if He wanted me with Him I would pass away.

Now, Biff, one day you will be in the very same position, as will all, for all will one day face the prospect of imminent if not immediate death, I wonder how you will face that prospect.

BobCeleste  posted on  2015-01-26   11:33:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#43. To: A K A Stone (#41)

Did He not pay taxes when due and urge others to do the same?

I thought he said give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is Gods.

Yes, He did.

SOSO  posted on  2015-01-26   11:37:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#44. To: Pinguinite (#32)

The theology of christian salvation is indeed straight forward. What is illogical is that God would have created a master plan that would have required salvation from eternal damnation, thereby resulting in so many of his beloved children to end up in a pit of eternal pain for all eternity.

Are you saying that it is wrong for the Creator to have rules? Did you not have any rules for yur kids as they grew up?

But, God does have rules, and His single biggest rule is "Unless you are Born Again, you will not see the kingdom of heaven" John 3:3, now, whether you like the rule or not isn't important, there are lots of rules of man I hate, but must, unless I want to pay the fine of penalty, obey, God's rule is the same, it is not dependent upon your liking it for it to be in force.

BobCeleste  posted on  2015-01-26   11:44:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#45. To: BobCeleste (#42)

I've always hoped i would face it like my grandfather did, calmly and peacefully without any particular alarm or upset. Not screaming and all panicked like the passengers in the car he was driving.

Biff Tannen  posted on  2015-01-26   11:45:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#46. To: SOSO (#43)

Did He not pay taxes when due and urge others to do the same? I thought he said give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is Gods.

Yes, He did.

I've read that that isn't the same as Jesus saying to pay your taxes.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-01-26   12:24:15 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#47. To: BobCeleste (#42)

facing death

I hope you stick around for a while Bob. I wish you good health.

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-01-26   12:25:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#48. To: Biff Tannen (#45)

I've always hoped i would face it like my grandfather did, calmly and peacefully without any particular alarm or upset. Not screaming and all panicked like the passengers in the car he was driving.

Your grandfather was probably a Born Again Christian, for knowing where you are going and what awaits you on the other side is restricted to those of us who have freely given our lives to Christ.

I too hope you can face death like that.

BobCeleste  posted on  2015-01-26   12:40:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#49. To: A K A Stone (#47)

I hope you stick around for a while Bob. I wish you good health.

Me too, thanks.

Facing death as a 20 year old Marine is nothing compared to facing it as a 70 year old. At 20 I was convinced that nothing could kill me, at 70 I realize I have one foot in the grave an the other on a banana peel at the best of times.

Facing death at 70 makes on realize and confess that there is a God and that judgement is inevitable. A Pastor friend from Maine sent me JAKE'S FORTUNE, a novel by Ray Comfort, in it is the best description of what I felt facing death. Ray's description is unbelievably accurate. I would urge everyone, especially Christians, to read it.

Thanks for this site A K A Stone,

Bob

BobCeleste  posted on  2015-01-26   12:49:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#50. To: BobCeleste (#42)

Bob old friend, I sincerely hope you are doing well! I pray for your good health and longevity! God Speed my friend !!

Si vis pacem, para bellum

Stoner  posted on  2015-01-26   13:01:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#51. To: BobCeleste (#44)

Are you saying that it is wrong for the Creator to have rules? Did you not have any rules for yur kids as they grew up?

It's not a question of liking or not liking the rules. It's a question of what the rules are. It's a question of how things really work. There's the Christian model which involves judgement on what we believed, or the model based on Michael Newton's work, corroborated by thousands through past life recall, which says our harshest (and only) judge will be our very selves, when we understand with much amplified conviction those whom we've harmed and those we've helped and (more to the point) the things we have learned and how we've progressed spiritually. It's a place where love surpasses all earthly deeds in enormous measure, fitting in a way the bible talks about but frankly fails to demonstrate. To a measure far beyond what one is even capable of expecting of a truly Majestic God.

To have an eternal soul condemned for all eternity in a pit of fire over academic knowledge is simply not what an all powerful, all loving God would see fit to do to his children.

I read of your health situation in post #42. I wish you the best. I believe though that the day you/we die, will be the happiest day of our lives, because it's the day we *return* home, the place we came from. Earth is not home, and never has been.

Pinguinite  posted on  2015-01-26   13:26:37 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#52. To: Biff Tannen (#45)

I've always hoped i would face it like my grandfather did, calmly and peacefully without any particular alarm or upset.

I look at death as a promise of relief from all the messes and stupidity my supposedly fellow human beings inflict upon me.

rlk  posted on  2015-01-26   13:30:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#53. To: Stoner (#50)

Bob old friend, I sincerely hope you are doing well! I pray for your good health and longevity! God Speed my friend !!

Thanks my friend,

Bob

BobCeleste  posted on  2015-01-26   13:31:22 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#54. To: Pinguinite (#51)

I believe though that the day you/we die, will be the happiest day of our lives, because it's the day we *return* home, the place we came from. Earth is not home, and never has been.

You sound as if you have given your life to Christ, if not, what do you base you believe on?

BobCeleste  posted on  2015-01-26   13:33:31 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#55. To: Pinguinite (#51)

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they draw to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

A K A Stone  posted on  2015-01-26   13:44:54 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#56. To: Pinguinite, BobCeleste (#51)

"To have an eternal soul condemned for all eternity in a pit of fire over academic knowledge is simply not what an all powerful, all loving God would see fit to do to his children".

One of the classic problems that people bring up is: How can a God of love send anybody to Hell? Well, there are several answers to that.

One of course is that God doesn't send anyone to Hell. You send yourself there. God has done everything He possibly can to keep you out of Hell and still leave you as a person with free will and not just a robot. That's the way He made us-- after His image, after His likeness, the power to say “yes” or the power to say “no,” the power to reject our own Creator, and of course to take the consequences. Across the road to Hell he has placed the cross of Christ. In one sense you can say He doesn't send anybody to Hell, because across the road to Hell he has placed the cross of Christ. There are also the prayers of parents, pastors and Sunday school teachers, and all the other things that God brings into our lives to stop us on our selfish way and to bring us to the Savior. We have to go wandering on past it all and put ourselves in Hell.

Sometimes you hear people say, "God wouldn't send His children to Hell." God certainly doesn't send His children to Hell because when we're His children we're in the family of God. We're born again and part of our salvation includes deliverance from judgment. We're not all children of God except through faith in Christ Jesus.

Can a God of love send anyone to Hell? You might as well ask some other question to make just as much sense. Does God allow disease in the world? Does God allow jails and prisons for some people? Does God allow the electric chair sometimes? Does God allow sin to break homes and hearts? Does God allow war? All of these things are the consequences of sin entering into the world, and in some cases the direct result of man's rebellion, and the result of greed and pride and egotism and hunger for power that doesn't have any use for people-- only the desire to get ahead.

This is the incredible fruit of sin. Sin brings suffering into the world. There's no way of getting around it. And the greatest sin in the world is to reject the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior. SNIP/

Fire burns. Gravity kills. Water drowns. And you can say, "God is love, God is love, God is love," until you're blue in the face. But water will still drown you, fire will burn you, and gravity will kill you, and sin will damn you no matter how much you say about a loving God.

God just set up life that way. He set up the rules. He set up the laws by which we are to live. And if we break those laws, they break us, and we pay the consequences.

All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. To those who knock it is opened. And yourself, in a dark hour, may will [a grumbling] mood, embrace it. Ye can repent and come out of it again. But there may come a day when you can do that no longer. Then there will be no you left to criticize the mood…

In a sense, the concept of hell gives meaning to our lives. It tells us that the moral choices we make day by day have eternal significance, that our behavior has consequences lasting to eternity, that God Himself takes our choices seriously.

SOURCE

("We sing about God because we believe in Him. We are not trying to offend anybody, but the evidence that we have seen of Him in our small little lives trumps your opinion about whether or not He exists". ~ Jeff Foxworthy)

Murron  posted on  2015-01-26   14:18:20 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#57. To: A K A Stone (#46)

I've read that that isn't the same as Jesus saying to pay your taxes.

Well, yeah, there's a lot of that going around these days:)

SOSO  posted on  2015-01-26   16:42:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#58. To: Murron (#56)

One of the classic problems that people bring up is: How can a God of love send anybody to Hell? Well, there are several answers to that.

One of course is that God doesn't send anyone to Hell. You send yourself there. God has done everything He possibly can to keep you out of Hell and still leave you as a person with free will and not just a robot. That's the way He made us-- after His image, after His likeness, the power to say “yes” or the power to say “no,” the power to reject our own Creator, and of course to take the consequences. Across the road to Hell he has placed the cross of Christ. In one sense you can say He doesn't send anybody to Hell, because across the road to Hell he has placed the cross of Christ. There are also the prayers of parents, pastors and Sunday school teachers, and all the other things that God brings into our lives to stop us on our selfish way and to bring us to the Savior. We have to go wandering on past it all and put ourselves in Hell.

Sometimes you hear people say, "God wouldn't send His children to Hell." God certainly doesn't send His children to Hell because when we're His children we're in the family of God. We're born again and part of our salvation includes deliverance from judgment. We're not all children of God except through faith in Christ Jesus.

Can a God of love send anyone to Hell? You might as well ask some other question to make just as much sense. Does God allow disease in the world? Does God allow jails and prisons for some people? Does God allow the electric chair sometimes? Does God allow sin to break homes and hearts? Does God allow war? All of these things are the consequences of sin entering into the world, and in some cases the direct result of man's rebellion, and the result of greed and pride and egotism and hunger for power that doesn't have any use for people-- only the desire to get ahead.

This is the incredible fruit of sin. Sin brings suffering into the world. There's no way of getting around it. And the greatest sin in the world is to reject the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior. SNIP/

Fire burns. Gravity kills. Water drowns. And you can say, "God is love, God is love, God is love," until you're blue in the face. But water will still drown you, fire will burn you, and gravity will kill you, and sin will damn you no matter how much you say about a loving God.

God just set up life that way. He set up the rules. He set up the laws by which we are to live. And if we break those laws, they break us, and we pay the consequences.

All that are in Hell, choose it. Without that self-choice there could be no Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it. Those who seek find. To those who knock it is opened. And yourself, in a dark hour, may will [a grumbling] mood, embrace it. Ye can repent and come out of it again. But there may come a day when you can do that no longer. Then there will be no you left to criticize the mood…

In a sense, the concept of hell gives meaning to our lives. It tells us that the moral choices we make day by day have eternal significance, that our behavior has consequences lasting to eternity, that God Himself takes our choices seriously.

Thank you, all of that is so very, very true.

BobCeleste  posted on  2015-01-26   16:44:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#59. To: BobCeleste (#58)

Thank you, all of that is so very, very true.

You're welcome.

("We sing about God because we believe in Him. We are not trying to offend anybody, but the evidence that we have seen of Him in our small little lives trumps your opinion about whether or not He exists". ~ Jeff Foxworthy)

Murron  posted on  2015-01-26   17:23:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#60. To: All (#58)

i just wish someone got that joke I stole.

Biff Tannen  posted on  2015-01-26   17:42:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#61. To: Biff Tannen (#60)

i just wish someone got that joke I stole.

I think most get Biff, but in the real world, there are some folk who grapple with that very joke almost everyday....

But I still think it's funny...lol

("We sing about God because we believe in Him. We are not trying to offend anybody, but the evidence that we have seen of Him in our small little lives trumps your opinion about whether or not He exists". ~ Jeff Foxworthy)

Murron  posted on  2015-01-26   18:19:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#62. To: Pinguinite, BobCeleste (#51)

Does the God you invoke through Newton have a name?

The God of Creation, the One and only God gave His Name, YHWH. The Name confirmed by His only begotten Son Jesus Christ, Yeshua Hamashiach.

That is the Great I AM who came in Word and Power.

Frankly when Newton walks on water and feeds thousands with a few fish and loaves of bread post it here.

"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;" (Revelation 5:9)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-01-26   22:26:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#63. To: Murron (#56)

Excellent source thank you.

"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;" (Revelation 5:9)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-01-26   23:01:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#64. To: Biff Tannen (#60) (Edited)

A very macabre sense of humor Biff.

"And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;" (Revelation 5:9)

redleghunter  posted on  2015-01-26   23:15:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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