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Title: DOLLAR DECEPTION: HOW BANKS SECRETLY CREATE MONEY
Source: [None]
URL Source: http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/dollar-deception.php
Published: Jul 3, 2007
Author: Ellen Brown
Post Date: 2007-07-27 20:39:36 by A K A Stone
Keywords: None
Views: 901
Comments: 24

It has been called "the most astounding piece of sleight of hand ever invented." The creation of money has been privatized, usurped from Congress by a private banking cartel. Most people think money is issued by fiat by the government, but that is not the case. Except for coins, which compose only about one one-thousandth of the total U.S. money supply, all of our money is now created by banks. Federal Reserve Notes (dollar bills) are issued by the Federal Reserve, a private banking corporation, and lent to the government.1 Moreover, Federal Reserve Notes and coins together compose less than 3 percent of the money supply. The other 97 percent is created by commercial banks as loans.2

Don't believe banks create the money they lend? Neither did the jury in a landmark Minnesota case, until they heard the evidence. First National Bank of Montgomery vs. Daly (1969) was a courtroom drama worthy of a movie script.3 Defendant Jerome Daly opposed the bank's foreclosure on his $14,000 home mortgage loan on the ground that there was no consideration for the loan. "Consideration" ("the thing exchanged") is an essential element of a contract. Daly, an attorney representing himself, argued that the bank had put up no real money for his loan. The courtroom proceedings were recorded by Associate Justice Bill Drexler, whose chief role, he said, was to keep order in a highly charged courtroom where the attorneys were threatening a fist fight. Drexler hadn't given much credence to the theory of the defense, until Mr. Morgan, the bank's president, took the stand. To everyone's surprise, Morgan admitted that the bank routinely created money "out of thin air" for its loans, and that this was standard banking practice. "It sounds like fraud to me," intoned Presiding Justice Martin Mahoney amid nods from the jurors. In his court memorandum, Justice Mahoney stated:

Plaintiff admitted that it, in combination with the Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis, . . . did create the entire $14,000.00 in money and credit upon its own books by bookkeeping entry. That this was the consideration used to support the Note dated May 8, 1964 and the Mortgage of the same date. The money and credit first came into existence when they created it. Mr. Morgan admitted that no United States Law or Statute existed which gave him the right to do this. A lawful consideration must exist and be tendered to support the Note.

The court rejected the bank's claim for foreclosure, and the defendant kept his house. To Daly, the implications were enormous. If bankers were indeed extending credit without consideration – without backing their loans with money they actually had in their vaults and were entitled to lend – a decision declaring their loans void could topple the power base of the world. He wrote in a local news article:

This decision, which is legally sound, has the effect of declaring all private mortgages on real and personal property, and all U.S. and State bonds held by the Federal Reserve, National and State banks to be null and void. This amounts to an emancipation of this Nation from personal, national and state debt purportedly owed to this banking system. Every American owes it to himself . . . to study this decision very carefully . . . for upon it hangs the question of freedom or slavery.

Needless to say, however, the decision failed to change prevailing practice, although it was never overruled. It was heard in a Justice of the Peace Court, an autonomous court system dating back to those frontier days when defendants had trouble traveling to big cities to respond to summonses. In that system (which has now been phased out), judges and courts were pretty much on their own. Justice Mahoney, who was not dependent on campaign financing or hamstrung by precedent, went so far as to threaten to prosecute and expose the bank. He died less than six months after the trial, in a mysterious accident that appeared to involve poisoning.4 Since that time, a number of defendants have attempted to avoid loan defaults using the defense Daly raised; but they have met with only limited success. As one judge said off the record:

If I let you do that – you and everyone else – it would bring the whole system down. . . . I cannot let you go behind the bar of the bank. . . . We are not going behind that curtain!5

From time to time, however, the curtain has been lifted long enough for us to see behind it. A number of reputable authorities have attested to what is going on, including Sir Josiah Stamp, president of the Bank of England and the second richest man in Britain in the 1920s. He declared in an address at the University of Texas in 1927:

The modern banking system manufactures money out of nothing. The process is perhaps the most astounding piece of sleight of hand that was ever invented. Banking was conceived in inequity and born in sin . . . . Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them but leave them the power to create money, and, with a flick of a pen, they will create enough money to buy it back again. . . . Take this great power away from them and all great fortunes like mine will disappear, for then this would be a better and happier world to live in. . . . But, if you want to continue to be the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, then let bankers continue to create money and control credit.

Robert H. Hemphill, Credit Manager of the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta in the Great Depression, wrote in 1934:

We are completely dependent on the commercial Banks. Someone has to borrow every dollar we have in circulation, cash or credit. If the Banks create ample synthetic money we are prosperous; if not, we starve. We are absolutely without a permanent money system. When one gets a complete grasp of the picture, the tragic absurdity of our hopeless position is almost incredible, but there it is. It is the most important subject intelligent persons can investigate and reflect upon.6

Graham Towers, Governor of the Bank of Canada from 1935 to 1955, acknowledged:

Banks create money. That is what they are for. . . . The manufacturing process to make money consists of making an entry in a book. That is all. . . . Each and every time a Bank makes a loan . . . new Bank credit is created -- brand new money.7

Robert B. Anderson, Secretary of the Treasury under Eisenhower, said in an interview reported in the August 31, 1959 issue of U.S. News and World Report:

[W]hen a bank makes a loan, it simply adds to the borrower's deposit account in the bank by the amount of the loan. The money is not taken from anyone else's deposit; it was not previously paid in to the bank by anyone. It's new money, created by the bank for the use of the borrower.

How did this scheme originate, and how has it been concealed for so many years? To answer those questions, we need to go back to the seventeenth century.

The Shell Game of the Goldsmiths

In seventeenth century Europe, trade was conducted primarily in gold and silver coins. Coins were durable and had value in themselves, but they were hard to transport in bulk and could be stolen if not kept under lock and key. Many people therefore deposited their coins with the goldsmiths, who had the strongest safes in town. The goldsmiths issued convenient paper receipts that could be traded in place of the bulkier coins they represented. These receipts were also used when people who needed coins came to the goldsmiths for loans.

The mischief began when the goldsmiths noticed that only about 10 to 20 percent of their receipts came back to be redeemed in gold at any one time. They could safely "lend" the gold in their strongboxes at interest several times over, as long as they kept 10 to 20 percent of the value of their outstanding loans in gold to meet the demand. They thus created "paper money" (receipts for loans of gold) worth several times the gold they actually held. They typically issued notes and made loans in amounts that were four to five times their actual supply of gold. At an interest rate of 20 percent, the same gold lent five times over produced a 100 percent return every year, on gold the goldsmiths did not actually own and could not legally lend at all. If they were careful not to overextend this "credit," the goldsmiths could thus become quite wealthy without producing anything of value themselves. Since only the principal was lent into the money supply, more money was eventually owed back in principal and interest than the townspeople as a whole possessed. They had to continually take out loans of new paper money to cover the shortfall, causing the wealth of the town and eventually of the country to be siphoned into the vaults of the goldsmiths-turned-bankers, while the people fell progressively into their debt.8

Following this model, in nineteenth century America, private banks issued their own banknotes in sums up to ten times their actual reserves in gold. This was called "fractional reserve" banking, meaning that only a fraction of the total deposits managed by a bank were kept in "reserve" to meet the demands of depositors. But periodic runs on the banks when the customers all got suspicious and demanded their gold at the same time caused banks to go bankrupt and made the system unstable. In 1913, the private banknote system was therefore consolidated into a national banknote system under the Federal Reserve (or "Fed"), a privately-owned corporation given the right to issue Federal Reserve Notes and lend them to the U.S. government. These notes, which were issued by the Fed basically for the cost of printing them, came to form the basis of the national money supply.

Twenty years later, the country faced massive depression. The money supply shrank, as banks closed their doors and gold fled to Europe. Dollars at that time had to be 40 percent backed by gold, so for every dollar's worth of gold that left the country, 2.5 dollars in credit money also disappeared. To prevent this alarming deflationary spiral from collapsing the money supply completely, in 1933 President Franklin Roosevelt took the dollar off the gold standard. Today the Federal Reserve still operates on the "fractional reserve" system, but its "reserves" consist of nothing but government bonds (I.O.U.s or debts). The government issues bonds, the Federal Reserve issues Federal Reserve Notes, and they basically swap stacks, leaving the government in debt to a private banking corporation for money the government could have issued itself, debt-free.

Theft by Inflation

M3, the broadest measure of the U.S. money supply, shot up from $3.7 trillion in February 1988 to $10.3 trillion 14 years later, when the Fed quit reporting it. Why the Fed quit reporting it in March 2006 is suggested by John Williams in a website called "Shadow Government Statistics" http://(shadowstats.com), which shows that by the spring of 2007, M3 was growing at the astounding rate of 11.8 percent per year. Best not to publicize such figures too widely! The question posed here, however, is this: where did all this new money come from? The government did not step up its output of coins, and no gold was added to the national money supply, since the government went off the gold standard in 1933. This new money could only have been created privately as "bank credit" advanced as loans.

The problem with inflating the money supply in this way, of course, is that it inflates prices. More money competing for the same goods drives prices up. The dollar buys less, robbing people of the value of their money. This rampant inflation is usually blamed on the government, which is accused of running the dollar printing presses in order to spend and spend without resorting to the politically unpopular expedient of raising taxes. But as noted earlier, the only money the U.S. government actually issues are coins. In countries in which the central bank has been nationalized, paper money may be issued by the government along with coins, but paper money still composes only a very small percentage of the money supply. In England, where the Bank of England was nationalized after World War II, private banks continue to create 97 percent of the money supply as loans.9

Price inflation is only one problem with this system of private money creation. Another is that banks create only the principal but not the interest necessary to pay back their loans. Since virtually the entire money supply is created by banks themselves, new money must continually be borrowed into existence just to pay the interest owed to the bankers. A dollar lent at 5 percent interest becomes 2 dollars in 14 years. That means the money supply has to double every 14 years just to cover the interest owed on the money existing at the beginning of this 14 year cycle. The Federal Reserve's own figures confirm that M3 has doubled or more every 14 years since 1959, when the Fed began reporting it. 10 That means that every 14 years, banks siphon off as much money in interest as there was in the entire economy 14 years earlier. This tribute is paid for lending something the banks never actually had to lend, making it perhaps the greatest scam ever perpetrated, since it now affects the entire global economy. The privatization of money is the underlying cause of poverty, economic slavery, underfunded government, and an oligarchical ruling class that thwarts every attempt to shake it loose from the reins of power.

This problem can only be set right by reversing the process that created it. Congress needs to take back the Constitutional power to issue the nation's money. "Fractional reserve" banking needs to be eliminated, limiting banks to lending only pre-existing funds. If the power to create money were returned to the government, the federal debt could be paid off, taxes could be slashed, and needed government programs could be expanded. Contrary to popular belief, paying off the federal debt with new U.S. Notes would not be dangerously inflationary, because government securities are already included in the widest measure of the money supply. The dollars would just replace the bonds, leaving the total unchanged. If the U.S. federal debt had been paid off in fiscal year 2006, the savings to the government from no longer having to pay interest would have been $406 billion, enough to eliminate the $390 billion budget deficit that year with money to spare. The budget could have been met with taxes, without creating money out of nothing either on a government print press or as accounting entry bank loans. However, some money created on a government printing press could actually be good for the economy. It would be good if it were used for the productive purpose of creating new goods and services, rather than for the non-productive purpose of paying interest on loans. When supply (goods and services) goes up along with demand (money), they remain in balance and prices remain stable. New money could be added without creating price inflation up to the point of full employment. In this way Congress could fund much-needed programs, such as the development of alternative energy sources and the expansion of health coverage, while actually reducing taxes.

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#1. To: A K A Stone (#0)

Banks?

What about money created by private corporations?

You know, "commercial paper" - which consists of short-term, promissary notes issued by companies and EVIL corporations ...

Notes that might be due out 270 days.

Commercial paper is often used to 'raise cash' needed for current transactions, and it is sometimes a lower-cost alternative to bank loans ...

_Jim  posted on  2007-07-28   0:10:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: _Jim (#1)

EVIL corporations

All corporations aren't evil. You shouldn't use such a broad brush. It is mainly the big multi national corporations that do evil on this earth. They love money to much. As the Bible says the love of money is the root of all evil.

A K A Stone  posted on  2007-07-28   8:38:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: A K A Stone (#2)

a) You shouldn't use such a broad brush.
b) It is mainly the big multi national corporations that do evil on this earth.

Hmmm .. pot ... kettle ... black ...

I almost forgot, for the 'troofer' crowd the office 'style sheet' says I should have rendered it as "EVILTM Corporations".

I think I've heard pinhead conspiratorialist TM Alex Jones use it that way ... It should also be pointed out that the pejorative "EVILTM Corporations" only refers to those corporations that are evil; on that note, since you seem to have an inside track as to which of those 'larger' corporations that are actually evil, maybe you can start a list we can all easily refer to, thereby identifying those 'corps' that are evil and those that are not.

That list (of "EVILTM Corporations") should probably be linked right off the front page here at Liberty's Flame too. .

_Jim  posted on  2007-07-28   9:55:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: _Jim (#3)

I'll humor you with a couple.

Monsanto. They think that because they modify the seeds God gave us all that they have some kind of patent on them. Well they broke gods copyright. God gave the seed to us all. It is also EVIL of them to modify the seeds God gave us all to the point that the seeds that they sell are infertile starting with the second generation of that plant.

Blackwater- They are killers for hire. Needs no explaining.

American corporations that sell out American workers and move overseas to exploit cheap labor are also doing evil.

Which evil corporations were you talking about?

A K A Stone  posted on  2007-07-28   12:24:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: A K A Stone (#0)

It has been called "the most astounding piece of sleight of hand ever invented."

Created by legislative act; hardly a 'sleight of hand' affair as asserted.

The creation of money has been privatized, usurped from Congress by a private banking cartel.

Hardly; congress created this situation via the Federal Reserve Act of 1913.

Most people think money is issued by fiat by the government, but that is not the case.
Legally, they (printed bills) are liabilities of the Federal Reserve Banks and obligations of the United States government. Although not issued by the Treasury Department, Federal Reserve Notes carry the (engraved) signature of the Treasurer of the United States and the United States Secretary of the Treasury.

Except for coins, which compose only about one one-thousandth of the total U.S. money supply, all of our money is now created by banks.
Hmmm ... that last comment brings one to this point; the notes are backed only by the "full faith and credit of the U.S. government" - the government's ability to levy taxes to pay its debts.

In another sense, because the notes are legal tender, they are "backed" by all the goods and services in the economy; they have value because the public accepts them in exchange for valued goods and services. Intrinsically they are worth the value of their ink and paper components.

These 'bills' may not have value in a foxhole or a bunker however.

Federal Reserve Notes (dollar bills) are issued by the Federal Reserve, a private banking corporation, and lent to the government.
Hmmmm ... not very informative.

Federal Reserve Notes are printed by the Bureau of Engraving and Printing (BEP), a bureau of the Department of the Treasury.

The Federal Reserve Banks pay the Bureau only the cost of printing the notes (about 4¢ a note), BUT to circulate the note as new currency rather than merely replacing worn notes, they must pledge collateral for the face value.

Now, a commercial bank that maintains a reserve account with the Federal Reserve can obtain notes from the Federal Reserve Bank in its district whenever it wishes.

The bank must pay for the notes in full, dollar for dollar, by debiting (drawing down) its reserve account. Smaller banks without a reserve account at the Federal Reserve can maintain their reserve accounts at larger "correspondent banks" which themselves maintain reserve accounts with the Federal Reserve.

_Jim  posted on  2007-07-28   15:03:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: A K A Stone (#0)

First National Bank of Montgomery vs. Daly (1969) was a courtroom drama worthy of a movie script.

A lowly 'Justice of the Peace' kind of court ... some kind of 'high drama'.

Defendant Jerome Daly opposed the bank's foreclosure on his $14,000 home mortgage loan on the ground that there was no consideration for the loan. "Consideration" ("the thing exchanged") is an essential element of a contract. Daly, an attorney representing himself, argued that the bank had put up no real money for his loan. The courtroom proceedings were recorded by Associate Justice Bill Drexler, whose chief role, he said, was to keep order in a highly charged courtroom where the attorneys were threatening a fist fight.

Again, this was a "Justice of the Peace" courtroom.

Drexler hadn't given much credence to the theory of the defense, until Mr. Morgan, the bank's president, took the stand. To everyone's surprise, Morgan admitted that the bank routinely created money "out of thin air" for its loans, and that this was standard banking practice. "It sounds like fraud to me," intoned Presiding Justice Martin Mahoney amid nods from the jurors. In his court memorandum, Justice [of the Peace] Mahoney stated ...

...

This decision, which is legally sound,

Nope.

"Overturned' or nullified or vacatated - either way this 'decision' isn't effective.

Doing some research it looks like the original Credit River Minn case (the so-called "First National Bank of Montgomery vs. Daly") decision is officially a "nullity" in the eyes of the Minn Supreme Court because the State Supreme Court ruled that Justice of the Peace Mahoney acted outside of his authority as a Justice of the Peace, and had no jurisdiction.

See:

11/14/69 JEROME DALY v. SAVAGE STATE BANK AND
[1] SUPREME COURT OF MINNESOTA
[2] No. 42157
[3] 1969.MN.271 <,>http://www.versuslaw.com>, 171 N.W.2d 218, 285 Minn. 503
[4] November 14, 1969
[5] JEROME DALY
v.
SAVAGE STATE BANK AND ANOTHER
[6] SYLLABUS BY THE COURT
[7] Courts -- justice of peace court -- demand for removal -- effect.
[8] Fredrikson, Byron & Colborn, Ltd., James L. Baillie, and Keith Libbey, for petitioner.
[9] The opinion of the court was delivered by: Per Curiam
[10] Petition in this court for a writ of prohibition by Savage State Bank to compel Martin V. Mahoney, justice of the peace of Credit River Township, Scott County, to refrain from enforcing certain orders and from further proceedings in an action brought by one Jerome Daly against petitioner and Eugene T. Kearney, postmaster at Savage, Minnesota.
[11] AUTHOR: PER CURIAM
[12] Petition for a writ of prohibition in the above-entitled matter instituted before Martin V. Mahoney, Justice of the Peace of Credit River Township, Scott County, Minnesota.
[13] The death of Mr. Mahoney on August 22, 1969, makes these proceedings moot as to him.
[14] However, to avoid the necessity of further proceedings to vacate and set aside any action taken herein by Mr. Mahoney or by any successor in office (see, 42 Am. Jur., Prohibition, § 47), we declare all proceedings in this matter in the justice court subsequent to relator's demand for removal of August 15, 1969, a nullity.
Minn. St. 531.115 provides for removal as a matter of right from a justice of the peace court to a court presided over by a salaried judge, and it requires the justice of the peace to transmit the file of such action "forthwith." See, Smith v. Tuman, 262 Minn. 149, 114 N.W. 2d 73.
[15] The application for the writ of prohibition is dismissed.
19691114


© 1997 VersusLaw Inc.

_Jim  posted on  2007-07-28   16:22:28 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: A K A Stone (#0)

Needless to say, however, the decision failed to change prevailing practice, although it was never overruled.

Someone is lying.

Is it Ellen Brown - or is she simply parroting what someone else has said?

_Jim  posted on  2007-07-28   16:28:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: A K A Stone (#4)

Blackwater is another front for the JESUIT ORDER just like the SS in Nazi Germany. I think I posted something on this in a previous installment of the bites.

The papacy has made colossal fools of untold millions of people down through history, and it is still doing so today.

Coral Snake  posted on  2007-07-28   19:31:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: Coral Snake (#8)

Continually undeterred by logic, reason and facts to the contrary huh corn snake?

I had a bird like that once; wouldn't take reason or logic for love nor money - but at least he was a bird ...

_Jim  posted on  2007-07-28   20:47:21 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: A K A Stone (#4)

What - no more posts on the 'money system' Hank?

_Jim  posted on  2007-07-28   22:18:27 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: _Jim (#10)

Answer a question. Is the money we use today here in the United States constitutional money?

A K A Stone  posted on  2007-07-28   22:27:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: A K A Stone (#11)

Why don't you just pay all your bills in Gold?

- BUT where is the real worth in Gold. Today, Gold is a commodity. Useful as a metal in certain electronics applications (like Gold plating pins and contacts) and as interconnects in GaAs MMICS (ICs) and it has worth on account of usefulness (TRY eating Gold when you are hungry sometime for instance).

So ... why don't we JUST use IOU's between each (the job, the grocery store, the gas station etc) other ... because that is inconvenient ...

And why aren't you living in a purely 'barter' and agrarian enviroment?

Because, that too is inconvenient.

Now, a new area; what about electronics funds transfers - how are you going to 'reconcile' an electronic system of 'bean counting' to 'constitutional currency'?

Remember, we aren't living 1776 anymore.

I think you missed this earlier posting (I expect you did, because, for some reason your 'type' is so God-damned dense!):

"... because the notes [money] are [is] legal tender, they [it] are [is] "backed" by all the goods and services in the economy;

they have value because the public accepts them in exchange for valued goods and services.

Do you get it yet?

A valuable metal is not near as useful in a close-knit community as some means of record keeping - like paper beans for instance. Something that can be easily carried, and exchanged.

Not getting it yet?

_Jim  posted on  2007-07-28   22:51:03 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: _Jim (#12)

What country are you from? You see here in America we have a constitution. It is supposed to be the supreme law of the land. Congress has delegated powers and may only exercise those powers lawfully. Even if this paper debt money scam is a better way. Which I don't believe it is. It is not lawful. We have an illegal government.

Here is some reading for you. Now answer the question. Do we have constitutional money?

Clauses 5 and 6. The Congress shall have Power *** To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures.

*** To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States.

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.

A K A Stone  posted on  2007-07-28   23:03:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: A K A Stone (#13)

What country are you from? You see here in America we have a constitution.
What the hell country are YOU from?

Is this a 'god' you worship - this 'constitution'?

It is supposed to be the supreme law of the land.
You have somehow overlooked the God-Family-Country aspect/value of things.

I DO NOT worship all that 'flows' from Washington.

Do you?

Somehow you have a warped view of all this, I think.

_Jim  posted on  2007-07-28   23:08:52 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: A K A Stone (#13)

Even if this paper debt money scam is a better way. Which I don't believe it is. It is not lawful. We have an illegal government.

I just finished watching a video of L. Ron Paul eariler - and he spoke about geting rid of the FRS -

- no wonder you guys 'flock' to L. Ron Paul.

L. Ron Paul wants to get 'rid' of the Fed Reserve System ... AS DOES LYNDON LAROUCHE.

HAve you studied Lyndon LaRouche and his 'positions'?

I'll bet not.

_Jim  posted on  2007-07-28   23:20:33 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: _Jim (#14)

So you want the type of government that doesn't keep its pact with the people?

I don't worship the constitution fool. God also calls for a just money system. WIth just weights and measures. You can't measure nothingless imaginary money.

A K A Stone  posted on  2007-07-28   23:21:58 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: _Jim (#15)

Karl Marx wanted a central bank issuing fake money. He wanted public schools.

Are you a commie?

A K A Stone  posted on  2007-07-28   23:23:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: A K A Stone (#16)

So you want the type of government that doesn't keep its pact with the people?

It comes down to 'a pact between men'.

We institute an organization called 'government' to draw up rules and laws and then give it 'power' (polce power, say) to enforce those rules and regulations and laws as part of that -

- and our FOUNDING document that authorizes or, more correctly, defines what the federal government will and won't be able to do is THE CONSTITUTION.

We DRAW these things up so there WON'T be any arguement later - 'cause we had it in writing before hand.

It is really all QUITE PRACTICAL, and it is not the HUGE, revolutionary 'thing' you want ti make it out to be, although in its time it was a BIG change from what had existed before it.

_Jim  posted on  2007-07-28   23:30:56 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: A K A Stone (#17)

Karl Marx wanted a central bank issuing fake money. He wanted public schools.

And you posted an article on the 'fake' origin of what you consider to be 'fake' money based on a FAKE court case -

- so who is lying now, and can be labled a potential COMMIE ==> you, bud.

Did you read above where the 'story' Ellen whats-her-name is BOGUS?

No, you didn't becasuse, well, your head is too far *p your *ss.

Sorry, had to be blunt to get the point across ...

_Jim  posted on  2007-07-28   23:35:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: _Jim (#18)

It is really all QUITE PRACTICAL

If it is quite practical. Then why don't they just obey it and use gold as money or amend the constitution lawfully. Its not like they are disobeying the constitution and doing something superior to what is defined in the constitution. Sure the money system is semi functioning right now. But what happens in future generations when they are invested in dollars and the system comes crashing down. It would be better to at least have a bit of gold for yourself instead of paper fiat currency. Not to mention the ones who print the money are in fact making slaves of everyone that is charged to borrow it into existance.

A K A Stone  posted on  2007-07-28   23:37:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: A K A Stone (#20)

Then why don't they just obey it and use gold as money or

Please demostrate how this would change your life.

I am serious.

What would change?

_Jim  posted on  2007-07-28   23:39:40 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: A K A Stone (#20)

BTW - I gotta bail - see ya.

_Jim  posted on  2007-07-28   23:42:39 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: _Jim (#19)

based on a FAKE court case

It was not a fake court case. A real representative of the people tried it. And came to the correct verdict. He read the constitution and applied it correctly. YOu cannot argue with that.

A K A Stone  posted on  2007-07-28   23:45:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: _Jim (#21)

Please demostrate how this would change your life.

I am serious.

What would change?

It would make me trust the government a little more. You see I don't like liars.

And they all lie when they promise to protect and defend the constitution.

Also it would protect my money from inflation of prices and deflation of the currency. If the currency collapsed I would have something with intrinsic value to trade for food or whatever I needed.

People could still use paper money, it would just be backed by gold.

I wouldn't oppose other solutions either. Just do it lawfully. I have heard peoples ideas about issuing debt free money to the workers who build the roads. I guess their theory being that people had to labor to get the gold and it added to society. Well when people build roads it benefits society so maybe they could be paid in debt free notes. Then that money wouldn't add more debt to the economy. Debt which can never be repaid.

A K A Stone  posted on  2007-07-28   23:51:23 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


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