Creationism/Evolution
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Title: Athiests can’t prove there is no God, they have to take it on faith
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Published: Jan 4, 2014
Author: Free Vulcan, dennisw
Post Date: 2014-01-04 22:16:15 by A K A Stone
Keywords: None
Views: 8750
Comments: 21
It is impossible to disprove the existence of God. The only way you could do it is if you were omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, so that you could be absolutely sure that there isn’t a greater being out there able to hide their presence from you.
Problem is, if you had those powers, you yourself would be God, and it would be a self-contradiction at that point to try and disprove your own existence.
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Your article is riddled with logical fallacies.
It is impossible to disprove the existence of God.
The statement assumes that God exists without any supporting substance or objective proof. If, indeed God exists why would anyone attempt to disprove the existence, thereof? So answer the question, go outside and view a free standing tree. It exists and there is no question about its existence; if you have further question about the tree's existence, feel free to walk to towards it and ensure that the apparent appearance agrees with the inverse square law, so as you approach it, it appears larger from your earlier frame of reference. If you still have doubt, touch the tree. Taste the tree. Smell the tree. Do anything that adds to your supporting data to proove the tree exists. Feel free to cut the tree down and burn the tree to understand that the tree is contained within the Universe.
The reasoning is simple for the exercise, we take for granted all things within sensory perception. Why? Our senses form the basis of how each and every individual views the world around us.
The only way you could do it [disprove the existence of God] is if you [or anybody] were omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, so that you [or anybody] could be absolutely sure that there isn’t a greater being out there able to hide their presence from you [or anybody].
The assumption is that God [an omnipotent being] would not perform the riddle in the first place. Yet, if God has all the power suggested [omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent] the assumption limits God power by a single method. That approach to a complex argument is self answering and as a result is another fallacy the author uses.
Problem is, if you had those powers, you yourself [or somebody] would be God, and it would be a self-contradiction at that point to try and disprove your own existence.
The statement poses a problem and attempts to answer the same with a presumed correct solution. The solution has no substantiation of or about "self contradiction." The statement inherently contradicts all the assumptions of an omnipotent God, which as a limitless being, could choose "self contradiction" as a method to be.
Stone, the real scope of your thread is very simple. All individuals in life as we know it on Earth are bounded by physical constraints and are limited in mental and personal, anatomical capabilities and capacities. If there is an omnipotent God, it is a mystery.
#2. To: A K A Stone (#0)
Athiests can’t prove there is no God, they have to take it on faith
Now, by way of my earlier post and in conjuction with your thread title, you should realize that you nor anyone can prove the existence of a god much less the lack of existence thereof, as there is no factual evidence. Let's get away from any discussion about the existence of a god and move on to the personality of Jesus Christ. In most popular forms of Christianity, Jesus Christ is equated to being God that is, he is unbegotten.
Moreover, I dispute the popular notion that Jesus Christ was a god and I also claim that any man stating that Jesus Christ is/was/ a god is a false prophet of and about the missionary of Jesus Christ. In effect, I claim that most of the 200 Christian faiths or Churches (comprising "Christianity") are outright charlatans, heretics and preach blastphemy their own "god."
#3. To: buckeroo (#2) (Edited)
Moreover, I dispute the popular notion that Jesus Christ was a god and I also claim that any man stating that Jesus Christ is/was/ a god is a false prophet of and about the missionary of Jesus Christ. In effect, I claim that most of the 200 Christian faiths or Churches (comprising "Christianity") are outright charlatans, heretics and preach blastphemy their own "god."
Matthew 10:33-35 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
#4. To: buckeroo (#2)
Can scientists absolutely prove the existance of God either yes or no. They certainly can't prove he doesn't exist. Can they do an experiment in the lab to prove God exists. Maybe maybe not.
Can people who put thier faith in evolution prove evolution. Certainly not, it isn't based on science at all.
Can people use their faith in evolution to prove God isn't real. Certainly not, it isn't science.
Do creationists have a model that they can test scientifically that will line up with Gods word. Certainly.
So what we have is an evolution model that is full of holes and flaws and isn't science at all.
Then we have a creation model which lines up with science and what we observe in the real world.
#5. To: buckeroo (#2)
Now, by way of my earlier post and in conjuction with your thread title, you should realize that you nor anyone can prove the existence of a god much less the lack of existence thereof, as there is no factual evidence.
I can prove it...
("Throw me to the wolves...and I will return leading the pack")
#6. To: Murron (#5)
I can prove it...
Whatever you can prove, feel free to do so. Trust me and most others, we won't hold a breath in waiting for your "proof."
#7. To: A K A Stone (#3)
Jesus was as "begotten" as any other mortal man that ever walked this Earth. I maintain Jesus Christ or more properly, Jesus of Nazareth, was not "unbegotten" as some of the freaks out there in comickville think; and this consideration goes for you, too, Stone.
#8. To: buckeroo (#6)
"Whatever you can prove, feel free to do so. Trust me and most others, we won't hold a breath in waiting for your "proof."
All you do, buck, gotta do is DIE, but noooooo, you'd rather hang around here, babbling your athiest propaganda, instead of putting your theory, 'God isn't real', to the acid test, and show us, once and for all, that you're right, God isn't real, and we're wrong!
Anyhow! Either way it turns out...you won't have a drinking problem anymore...
("Throw me to the wolves...and I will return leading the pack")
#9. To: A K A Stone (#4)
Can scientists absolutely prove the existance of God either yes or no.
No.
They certainly can't prove he doesn't exist.
That is true because the concept of "god" is predicated in the statement. Your conclusion is based on false reasoning skills.
Can they do an experiment in the lab to prove God exists. Maybe maybe not.
No.
Can people who put thier faith in evolution prove evolution. Certainly not, it isn't based on science at all.
Evolution is not based on "faith." The scientific study is based on factual findings.
Can people use their faith in evolution to prove God isn't real. Certainly not, it isn't science.
You are rambling.
Do creationists have a model that they can test scientifically that will line up with Gods word. Certainly.
How? Where is "God's word" but in a collection of scribbled mutterings by inbred Jews that played with sheep because they had nothing else to do.
So what we have is an evolution model that is full of holes and flaws and isn't science at all.
Suffice to say, the study of evolution is evolving.
Then we have a creation model which lines up with science and what we observe in the real world.
A creation model that lines up with science? What the HELL is that?
#10. To: buckeroo (#9)
A creation model that lines up with science? What the HELL is that?
Lets start here if we may.
The Bible says things about our past. One things it talks about is a worldwide flood. Scientifically what would you expect to find if that is true. Answer: Billions of dead things buried in mud laid down by water all over the earth.
That is in fact what you find.
Fossils are the enemy of the faith of evolution.
You have to take evolution on faith because there is absolutely no scientific proof of evolution.
#11. To: Murron (#8)
I wasn't there. But I was told by my wife that when she was a kid her sister had a brain tumor. Her father prayed and made a promise to God that if she was healed he would give up drinking and turn his live over to God. The brain tumor went away and he followed through on his promise. Her father is now passed for many years. I believe their story.
#12. To: A K A Stone (#10)
Lets start here if we may.The Bible says things about our past. One things it talks about is a worldwide flood. Scientifically what would you expect to find if that is true. Answer: Billions of dead things buried in mud laid down by water all over the earth.
That is in fact what you find.
Fossils are the enemy of the faith of evolution.
You have to take evolution on faith because there is absolutely no scientific proof of evolution.
NAW.
Lets start here: Athiests can’t prove there is no God, they have to take it on faith as the thread topic; you have intentionally drifted off to cosmick creationalism now. Why are you moving the thread article's central discussion? Rhetorically, because you have lost the earlier discussion.
I recommend that you stay on the target subject if you can. If you can't do it, make a new thread.
#13. To: buckeroo (#12)
It is the same subject. You need reading comprehension classes.
#14. To: buckeroo (#12)
Mark 6:11
King James Version (KJV)
11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
#15. To: buckeroo (#1)
It isn't a mystery to those whom God has determined to belong to Him. God's children believe on the grounds of faith through the grace of God. Satan's children will not believe, nor will they receive the blessings of God except for the common blessings on earth.
#16. To: Don (#15)
It isn't a mystery to those whom God has determined to belong to Him.
Ahhh yes, I clearly see your perspective; in effect, your opinion has God placing piles of people on the planet through the beginning of time with a pre-determined set of non-deterministic individualized or self choices: some pre-selected as God's chosen people (as the Jews claim) and some true believers of Jesus Christ that somehow ascend to paradise or Heaven. Simultaneously, from your perspective all the rest of the human population that have existed through time are doomed to HELL.
From my interpretation of your statement, there are some serious questions that I want to point out to you and any readers that find this subject of any interest.
Please respond to the above "cases" so I understand your belief system.The first case is there are over 20 Jewish sects on the planet. Which Jewish sect is God refering to, as the chosen people? If you over generalize that "Abraham's blood is within all Jews" you may have a problem with any argument because there are many Jews that have married outside of Jewish orthodoxy and as a result are "impure" from a strict point of view. Hence, non-pure Jews represent a HUGE segment of Jews families that may have an issue getting to Heaven.
The second case is there are over 200 Christian sects on the planet. Which sect does anyone actually follow as surely once anyone realizes the complexity of diversity amonst these varying sects, they may either fall dizzy to the details of belief OR die before their limited time is swallowed up before being judged by a God that already dispositioned their fruitless research.
The third case is quite complex as it offers a riddle to consider. What about the Jewish sects (old testiment) that deny Jesus Christ (almost all of Jews suggest Jesus was not and is not the "Messiah") and yet, Jews are considered the "chosen people." Please explain this paradox.
The fourth case is as complex as the third case just offered above. What about all the "Christians" that during the various Crusades intentionally murdered both Jews and Muslems in Europe and in the Middle East as in Palestine and Judea, to permanently remove the blasphemous blight from the eyes of the Pope and all Christians everywhere? What happens to these "Christians" for either Heaven or Hell determination? BTW, the crusaders operated out of their true belief in Jesus Christ and would potentially die in the name of Jesus Christ in battle with heretics and blasphemers.
God's children believe on the grounds of faith through the grace of God.
What does "grace of God" have to do with God's determination, as you pointed out earlier? Are you saying that God is compassionate about a human being so confused about the mission of Jesus Christ that God is willing to understand the individual case as pointed in all four generic cases presented above?
Satan's children will not believe, nor will they receive the blessings of God except for the common blessings on earth.
I see your apparent perspective again. Your viewpoint is not adjusted by about two thousand years of Christian re-interpretation of the books that are valued by your particular Christian sect. And you intentionally neglect the Christian bloodbaths around the world spreading the good word that created the world's "dark ages" and later lead to rape, pillaging and outright murder in the name of Jesus Christ.
#17. To: A K A Stone (#13)
It is the same subject. You need reading comprehension classes.
As always, Stone, your recommendations are not worthy of my time.
#18. To: A K A Stone (#14)
Mark 6:11King James Version (KJV)
11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Nice try, stone. Your recitations of "scripture" is about as pathetic as your well-known and publicised love for both TLBSHOW & your best buddies, yukon and the god-damned Kanary Klub that support BS.
#19. To: buckeroo (#17)
It is the same subject. You need reading comprehension classes.As always, Stone, your recommendations are not worthy of my time.
Buckeroo "A creation model that lines up with science? What the HELL is that? "
You need reading comprehension classes.
#20. To: buckeroo (#16)
To make things hopefully clear to you, God doesn't go by sects, denominations, or general classifications to determine His people. An example of this is the number of times the ancient Jewish nation rebelled against God. God has killed many Jews because they willfully sinned against God. God has always kept a remnant of people who loved God and did His Will. God saved the remnant and condemned the others.
As for Christians, it is foolishness to believe that a person is a Christian because the person has said he is Christian. It is the actions of a person that are more accurate than words. God knows who belongs to Him, and it is He who is the final judge of those matters.
#21. To: Don (#20)
To make things hopefully clear to you, God doesn't go by sects, denominations, or general classifications to determine His people.
If true, please explain the idea about, "the chosen people." Only Jews wear that title.
An example of this is the number of times the ancient Jewish nation rebelled against God. God has killed many Jews because they willfully sinned against God.
I suppose you are suggesting that Jews are not so chosen after all. How about that!
God has always kept a remnant of people who loved God and did His Will. God saved the remnant and condemned the others.
Where are these people? Because there are no examples anywhere around the world walking the planet that I know of or about.
As for Christians, it is foolishness to believe that a person is a Christian because the person has said he is Christian.
Damn! There goes my Tamara Faye LaValley Bakker Messner & Jimmy Bakker argument. But what about Jerry Falwell and his "Christian Zionism" concept?
It is the actions of a person that are more accurate than words. God knows who belongs to Him, and it is He who is the final judge of those matters.
For those of us that attempt to understand an example of a REAL Christian ... I hope you can produce one. I don't believe Jesus Christ would merit your approval based on the selected books of the New Testament.
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