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Business
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Title: Hostess, Maker Of Twinkies, To Go Out Of Business; Strike Cited
Source: Los Angeles Times
URL Source: http://www.latimes.com/business/mon ... uiness-20121116,0,3714808.post
Published: Nov 16, 2012
Author: Alana Semuels
Post Date: 2012-11-16 10:21:48 by Brian S
Keywords: None
Views: 33543
Comments: 68

NEW YORK -- Twinkies may last forever, but the same can’t be said for the company that makes the cream-filled sponge cake. Hostess Brands Inc., the company that makes Twinkies and Wonder Bread, has asked a judge for permission to go out of business and lay off 18,500.

The company is blaming its decision to shut down on a labor strike by members of the Bakery, Confectionary, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union, but Americans’ appetite for junk food has been waning in recent years. The company has filed for bankruptcy twice this decade, the last time in January.

"We deeply regret the necessity of today's decision, but we do not have the financial resources to weather an extended nationwide strike," Gregory F. Rayburn, Hostess' chief executive, said in a statement.

Many businesses have faced labor unrest in the recovery from the recession as they try to dial back benefits and wages and unions resist. In 2011, for example, there were 19 major strikes and lockouts involving more than 1,000 workers, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, up from 11 in 2010. The 2011 strikes accounted for 1.02 million lost workdays.

The union said in a statement that Hostess made unreasonable demands, including wage and benefit cuts of around 30% for workers, while top executives of the company received large pay increases.

“The crisis facing Hostess Brands is the result of nearly a decade of financial and operational mismanagement that resulted in two bankruptcies, mountains of debt, declining sales and lost market share,” said union President Frank Hurt. “The Wall Street investors who took over the company after the last bankruptcy attempted to resolve the mess by attacking the company’s most valuable asset – its workers.”

Hostess, based in Irving, Texas, has 565 distribution centers around the country, as well as 33 bakeries and 570 bakery outlets. The union says 24 production facilities are currently on strike.

It said it had filed a motion with U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Robert Drain in White Plains, N.Y., for permission to shut down and sell assets.

The company’s brands include Twinkies, Drake’s and Nature’s Pride. It also makes Wonder bread, which was America’s first sliced bread, according to the company’s website.

It plans to sell its assets to the highest bidders.

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#1. To: Brian S (#0)

More organized crime from our Democrat brain trust. Refuse to take an 8% pay cut so the company can continue to exist and pay workers so they prove they can't be pushed around by the evil 1% and proudly accept a 100% pay cut. Well played, left-wingers, well played.

war has to do something for entertainment; the voices in his head aren't speaking to him and his imaginary friends have found reasons not to come over anymore.

Rudgear  posted on  2012-11-16   10:48:09 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#2. To: Rudgear (#1)

More organized crime from our Democrat brain trust. Refuse to take an 8% pay cut so the company can continue to exist and pay workers so they prove they can't be pushed around by the evil 1% and proudly accept a 100% pay cut. Well played, left-wingers, well played.

The free market works in mysterious ways.

Almost every country in the Middle East is awash in oil, and we have to side with the one that has nothing but joos. Goddamn, that was good thinkin'. Esso posted on 2012-01-13 7:37:56 ET

mininggold  posted on  2012-11-16   11:40:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#3. To: Brian S (#0)

Thank God for Little Debbie's.

Logsplitter  posted on  2012-11-16   14:15:05 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#4. To: Brian S (#0)

The union says 24 production facilities are currently on strike.

And I hope that every single one of those union workers on strike never find another job for the rest of their lives. Once their unemployment benefits run out,let them go live in caves in the words.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2012-11-16   14:43:36 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#5. To: sneakypete (#4)

Once their unemployment benefits run out,let them go live in caves in the words.

The Teamster workers at Hostess are pissed off 'big time'. They took significant pay and pension cuts back in September.

It is not easy reconstructing 'molded minds'...

Brian S  posted on  2012-11-16   15:52:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#6. To: Brian S (#5)

The Teamster workers at Hostess are pissed off 'big time'. They took significant pay and pension cuts back in September.

What about the other union workers? Did they refuse to take less and thereby stick a knife in the backs of the Teamsters?

I just saw non-Teamster Hostess union workers being interviewed on the evening news a short while ago,and they were babbling "giving this company everything for 30 years and this is the way they treat me!" crap while complaining about the owners and management earning more money than them.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2012-11-16   17:57:42 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#7. To: sneakypete, Hostess Blames Union For Bankruptcy After Tripling CEOs Pay (#6)

What about the other union workers? Did they refuse to take less and thereby stick a knife in the backs of the Teamsters?

It is the Bakers Union that went on strike.

Here is a related article that I had heard some grumbling about earlier:

Hostess Blames Union For Bankruptcy After Tripling CEO’s Pay

Today, Hostess Brands inc. — the company famed for its sickly sweet desert snacks like Twinkies and Sno Balls — announced they’d be shuttering after more than eighty years of production.

But while headlines have been quick to blame unions for the downfall of the company there’s actually more to the story: While the company was filing for bankruptcy, for the second time, earlier this year, it actually tripled its CEO’s pay, and increased other executives’ compensation by as much as 80 percent.

At the time, creditors warned that the decision signaled an attempt to “sidestep” bankruptcy rules, potentially as a means for trying to keep the executive at a failing company. The Confectionery, Tobacco Workers & Grain Millers International Union pointed this out in their written reaction to the news that the business is closing:

BCTGM members are well aware that as the company was preparing to file for bankruptcy earlier this year, the then CEO of Hostess was awarded a 300 percent raise (from approximately $750,000 to $2,550,000) and at least nine other top executives of the company received massive pay raises. One such executive received a pay increase from $500,000 to $900,000 and another received one taking his salary from $375,000 to $656,256.

Certainly, the company agreed to an out-sized pension debt, but the decision to pay executives more while scorning employee contracts during a bankruptcy reflects a lack of good managerial judgement.

It also follows a trend of rising CEO pay in times of economic difficulty. At the manufacturing company Caterpillar, for example, they froze workers’ pay while boosting their CEO’s pay to $17 million. And at Citigroup, CEO Vikram Pandit received $6.7 million for crashing his company, walking off with $260 million after the business lost 88 percent of its value.

It is not easy reconstructing 'molded minds'...

Brian S  posted on  2012-11-16   18:14:34 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#8. To: Brian S (#7)

Certainly, the company agreed to an out-sized pension debt, but the decision to pay executives more while scorning employee contracts during a bankruptcy reflects a lack of good managerial judgement.

Yes,it does,but those wage increases are only for less than a dozen people,and amount to a miniscule portion of their operating costs.

AND.....,a solid argument could be made that the CEO and other board members worth to the company is considerably more than that of a bubba with a 8th grade education that has been boxing up Ho Ho's for the last 20 years.

I have zero sympathy for people content to spend their entire working lives at dead-end jobs that require nothing more than a few muscles and a pulse,and then while they aren't getting paid enough or somebody is earning more.

If they want more money,maybe they should have taken a few night classes and learned a skilled trade or a white collar job that can be used elsewhere?

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2012-11-16   18:24:26 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#9. To: sneakypete (#8)

I have zero sympathy for people content to spend their entire working lives at dead-end jobs that require nothing more than a few muscles and a pulse,and then while they aren't getting paid enough or somebody is earning more.

If they want more money,maybe they should have taken a few night classes and learned a skilled trade or a white collar job that can be used elsewhere?

Then you will have an 'america' with just two classes and one of them out number the other 'big-time'...

The election result we just had will permanently be the standard.

Of course, I'm sure you are just fine and comfortable collecting your gov't stipends now...aren't you?

It is not easy reconstructing 'molded minds'...

Brian S  posted on  2012-11-16   18:52:14 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#10. To: Brian S (#9)

Then you will have an 'america' with just two classes and one of them out number the other 'big-time'...

Not true. There are many people content to take those jobs and never even consider anything else or even earning more money.

The election result we just had will permanently be the standard.

You are probably right.

Of course, I'm sure you are just fine and comfortable collecting your gov't stipends now...aren't you?

I don't get any stipends.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2012-11-16   20:56:49 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#11. To: sneakypete (#10)

I don't get any stipends.

To hell you don't, liar. Burn your SS card and refuse medicare...get off the dole you leech!

It is not easy reconstructing 'molded minds'...

Brian S  posted on  2012-11-16   21:18:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#12. To: mininggold (#2)

The free market works in mysterious ways.

There is nothing remotely 'free market' in extorting money from businesses under the guise of looking out for workers rights and killing the business, all the while the idiot workers can't compute untenable union plus extortion multiplied by selfishness plus entitlement mentality equals no more business to pay wages, no more job.

Seriously, do you left-wingers really and truly believe your lives for the last sixty years begin to compare to turn-of-the-nineteenth century blue collar existence? You truly believe you are all perpetual victims, entitled to rob the coffers till you and everyone else is impoverished. Your vote and attitude may yet bring back the good old days of the 1880s and 1890s.

Dumb-ass.

war has to do something for entertainment; the voices in his head aren't speaking to him and his imaginary friends have found reasons not to come over anymore.

Rudgear  posted on  2012-11-16   21:59:00 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#13. To: Brian S (#11)

I don't get any stipends. To hell you don't, liar. Burn your SS card and refuse medicare...get off the dole you leech!

If you were to ever speak to me like that in person,I would change your life forever,you piece of shit.

Look up the definition of the word "stipends",retard.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2012-11-16   22:49:11 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#14. To: sneakypete (#13)

If you were to ever speak to me like that in person,I would change your life forever,you piece of shit.

Easy to say behind your 'big key' keyboard...now go demand you 'seniors discount' at the casino buffet bar.

I know your type...they are all over jackson, Mi.

It is not easy reconstructing 'molded minds'...

Brian S  posted on  2012-11-16   23:25:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#15. To: Brian S (#14)

I know your type...they are all over jackson, Mi.

You know nothing other than how tight your father's bottom is.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2012-11-17   5:11:30 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#16. To: Rudgear (#12)

There is nothing remotely 'free market' in extorting money from businesses under the guise of looking out for workers rights and killing the business, all the while the idiot workers can't compute untenable union plus extortion multiplied by selfishness plus entitlement mentality equals no more business to pay wages, no more job.

So you want the market to be well regulated. You can't have it both ways.

Almost every country in the Middle East is awash in oil, and we have to side with the one that has nothing but joos. Goddamn, that was good thinkin'. Esso posted on 2012-01-13 7:37:56 ET

mininggold  posted on  2012-11-17   11:21:17 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#17. To: Brian S (#14)

Easy to say behind your 'big key' keyboard...now go demand you 'seniors discount' at the casino buffet bar.

I know your type...they are all over jackson, Mi.

I bet Sneaky is nothing without his insulin and free VA care.

Almost every country in the Middle East is awash in oil, and we have to side with the one that has nothing but joos. Goddamn, that was good thinkin'. Esso posted on 2012-01-13 7:37:56 ET

mininggold  posted on  2012-11-17   11:22:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#18. To: Brian S (#0)

The company is blaming its decision to shut down on a labor strike by members of the Bakery, Confectionary, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union, but Americans’ appetite for junk food has been waning in recent years. The company has filed for bankruptcy twice this decade, the last time in January.

Will put up the last three Twinkees I have on Ebay and see how much I get.

"Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.) Psalm 139:16

redleghunter  posted on  2012-11-17   13:17:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#19. To: redleghunter (#18)

Make sure you spell Twinkies correctly.

I've read that they'll be bought by someone for the Brand and production will continue eventually, probably with slave labor wages. At least the executives made out like bandits with their fat pay raises they gave themselves.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2012-11-17   13:31:25 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#20. To: Fred Mertz (#19)

spell Twinkies correctly

Sorry for the inaccurate spelling:) Cheer up, we always have the Mexican Twinkies!

"Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.) Psalm 139:16

redleghunter  posted on  2012-11-17   14:05:52 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#21. To: All (#20)

5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; 6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct[a] your paths.(Proverbs 3:5-6)

redleghunter  posted on  2012-11-17   14:10:19 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#22. To: redleghunter (#20)

Don't those Mexicans also have Bimbo bread/pan; their version of Wonder Bread? I know I've seen them on the shelves in Mexico when I used to vacation there.

Fred Mertz  posted on  2012-11-17   14:11:48 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#23. To: Logsplitter, Brian S (#3)

Thank God for Little Debbie's.

"A friend will calm you down when you are angry, but a best friend will skip beside you with a baseball bat singing, "someone's gonna get it"

Murron  posted on  2012-11-17   15:33:57 ET  (1 image) Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#24. To: mininggold (#16)

So you want the market to be well regulated. You can't have it both ways.

Still resorting to nonsense because you can't defend your labor union buddies. What I want is union criminals in jail and the useful idiots who support them unemployed WITHOUT taking the good people down with them.

war has to do something for entertainment; the voices in his head aren't speaking to him and his imaginary friends have found reasons not to come over anymore.

Rudgear  posted on  2012-11-17   16:25:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#25. To: Fred Mertz (#22)

Don't those Mexicans also have Bimbo bread/pan; their version of Wonder Bread? I know I've seen them on the shelves in Mexico when I used to vacation there.

The Mexican market down the street carries it. Looks and tastes just like Wonder Bread. I'm surprised that it's not the official bread of the GOP and conservatives everywhere, since it's made with non union labor.

Almost every country in the Middle East is awash in oil, and we have to side with the one that has nothing but joos. Goddamn, that was good thinkin'. Esso posted on 2012-01-13 7:37:56 ET

mininggold  posted on  2012-11-18   1:33:57 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#26. To: Rudgear (#24)

Still resorting to nonsense because you can't defend your labor union buddies. What I want is union criminals in jail and the useful idiots who support them unemployed WITHOUT taking the good people down with them.

Look up the testimony. Your bud Petraeus is going to get his tit in a ringer over it and the prison he operated there.

Almost every country in the Middle East is awash in oil, and we have to side with the one that has nothing but joos. Goddamn, that was good thinkin'. Esso posted on 2012-01-13 7:37:56 ET

mininggold  posted on  2012-11-18   1:35:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#27. To: Rudgear (#24) (Edited)

So you want the market to be well regulated. You can't have it both ways. Still resorting to nonsense because you can't defend your labor union buddies. What I want is union criminals in jail and the useful idiots who support them unemployed WITHOUT taking the good people down with them.

Naah.... Hostess pulled a Bain, after a series of CEOs loaded it with debt, took the money and ran, blaming the unions, while leaving idiots like you without a clue.

Almost every country in the Middle East is awash in oil, and we have to side with the one that has nothing but joos. Goddamn, that was good thinkin'. Esso posted on 2012-01-13 7:37:56 ET

mininggold  posted on  2012-11-18   1:39:08 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#28. To: mininggold (#26)

So, you admit lying about embassies and diplomatic compounds and admit your chocolate savior and the rest of the Dummycrats have been running a prison and an amped-up fast and furious gun running operation?

war has to do something for entertainment; the voices in his head aren't speaking to him and his imaginary friends have found reasons not to come over anymore.

Rudgear  posted on  2012-11-18   6:38:46 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#29. To: mininggold (#27)

whiningold loonymom said: blah blah blah blah blah blah blah . . .

Nah, dummy, its called post chapter 11 restructuring and you criminals killed the golden goose because Hostess wouldn't allow themselves to be extorted by the communist unions and dummies like you can eat your lunch all by yourself.

war has to do something for entertainment; the voices in his head aren't speaking to him and his imaginary friends have found reasons not to come over anymore.

Rudgear  posted on  2012-11-18   6:42:16 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#30. To: mininggold (#27)

Naah.... Hostess pulled a Bain, after a series of CEOs loaded it with debt, took the money and ran, blaming the unions, while leaving idiots like you without a clue.

You haven't a clue. The Unions wanted to make more money then Twinkies was bringing in. The people work for what is offered or they don't have a job. It isn't any of the Unions business actually. And twinkies suck. They taste awful. Ding Dons are good though.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-11-18   8:25:51 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#31. To: sneakypete (#8)

AND.....,a solid argument could be made that the CEO and other board members worth to the company is considerably more than that of a bubba with a 8th grade education that has been boxing up Ho Ho's for the last 20 years.

Except for the part about the company going bankrupt I'm inclined to agree with you.

Thunderbird  posted on  2012-11-18   10:31:04 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#32. To: sneakypete (#8)

I have zero sympathy for people content to spend their entire working lives at dead-end jobs that require nothing more than a few muscles and a pulse,and then while they aren't getting paid enough or somebody is earning more.

If they want more money,maybe they should have taken a few night classes and learned a skilled trade or a white collar job that can be used elsewhere?

EXACTLY.

I was faced with that exact choice, and made the commitment to go back to school. That was ~22 years ago; boot-strapped my way along, working different jobs, typically 50+ hours a week...

I started out with a skill (factory maintenance), but I wanted more... I wanted a LOT more. Unlike my co-workers, I was not satisfied with a dead-end job.

The results are manifest; the factory that I was at, when I made that decision, has been shut down. Most of my friends from there have been financially wiped-out, lost their homes, and are in desperate straights. In contrast, I've been steadily employed, earning triple what I had been making (in inflation-adjusted dollars). And I'm entertaining the idea of moving to another state to take a C-suite position with a boutique company.

The people that stay at a factory for 30 years, and think they will never have to better themselves, never have to stay competitive in the labor market, are fools. They now reap the reward for their laziness- a pink slip.

Completely predictable.

The total # of registered voters (election 2012) was ~197 million voters.

Barack Obama: 60,652,238 = 30.8%
Mitt Romney: 57,810,407 = 29.4%
NONE OF THE ABOVE: ~77,000,000 = 40%.

The U.S. government no longer has the consent of the people.

"Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost."
-- John Quincy Adams --

Capitalist Eric  posted on  2012-11-18   10:57:13 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#33. To: A K A Stone (#30)

You haven't a clue. The Unions wanted to make more money then Twinkies was bringing in. The people work for what is offered or they don't have a job. It isn't any of the Unions business actually. And twinkies suck. They taste awful. Ding Dons are good though.

That must be why Hostess was asking the unions to take a pay cut and spend more out of posket for health care.

It's series of CEOs all took their golden parachutes leaving Hostess with lots of debt. It is the purest form of vulture capitalism model in a nutshell.

Almost every country in the Middle East is awash in oil, and we have to side with the one that has nothing but joos. Goddamn, that was good thinkin'. Esso posted on 2012-01-13 7:37:56 ET

mininggold  posted on  2012-11-18   11:13:45 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#34. To: mininggold (#33)

It's series of CEOs all took their golden parachutes leaving Hostess with lots of debt.

You're not known for your honesty.

How much money did who take?

How does that percent relate to other American companies in similar businesses.

A K A Stone  posted on  2012-11-18   11:19:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#35. To: A K A Stone (#34) (Edited)

You're not known for your honesty.

How much money did who take?

How does that percent relate to other American companies in similar businesses.

Have your Wall Street friends explain it to you. Corporate raiding is nothing new.

Yet the only one who admittedly screws around with poster's postings here.... is YOU.

Almost every country in the Middle East is awash in oil, and we have to side with the one that has nothing but joos. Goddamn, that was good thinkin'. Esso posted on 2012-01-13 7:37:56 ET

mininggold  posted on  2012-11-18   11:29:55 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#36. To: Thunderbird (#31)

Except for the part about the company going bankrupt I'm inclined to agree with you.

One big reason why the company is going bankrupt is because they have thousands of these Bubbas working production lines that they they should be getting paid what a skilled tool and die maker is paid.

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2012-11-18   13:29:10 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#37. To: Capitalist Eric (#32)

The people that stay at a factory for 30 years, and think they will never have to better themselves, never have to stay competitive in the labor market, are fools. They now reap the reward for their laziness- a pink slip.

To be fair to them,many of them are second or even third generation factory workers there,don't have much of an education,and have been told their whole lives by their family members,neighbors,and union officials that they don't have to think or worry about anything because those jobs will always be there and they will always be getting raises.

When it's all they have ever heard,was true for their parents,and all they know,can you REALLY blame them for not waking up and looking around?

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2012-11-18   13:32:47 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#38. To: sneakypete (#37)

July pay raises given for Hostess management doing such a wonderful job of running a productive company.

Brian Driscoll, CEO, around $750,000 to $2,550,000. Gary Wandschneider, EVP, $500,000 to $900,000. John Stewart, EVP, $400,000 to $700,000. David Loeser, EVP, $375,000 to $656,256. Kent Magill, EVP, $375,000 to $656,256. Richard Seban, EVP, $375,000 to $656,256. John Akeson, SVP, $300,000 to $480,000. Steven Birgfeld, SVP, $240,000 to $360,000. Martha Ross, SVP, $240,000 to $360,000. Rob Kissick, SVP, $182,000 to $273,008.

Almost every country in the Middle East is awash in oil, and we have to side with the one that has nothing but joos. Goddamn, that was good thinkin'. Esso posted on 2012-01-13 7:37:56 ET

mininggold  posted on  2012-11-18   13:39:32 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#39. To: mininggold (#38)

So what? What percentage is that of their total wages and benefits paid that quarter?

You're one of those idiots that thinks everyone should be paid the same amount,aren't you?

Why is democracy held in such high esteem when it’s the enemy of the minority and makes all rights relative to the dictates of the majority? (Ron Paul,2012)

sneakypete  posted on  2012-11-18   14:36:06 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  


#40. To: sneakypete (#39)

You're one of those idiots that thinks everyone should be paid the same amount,aren't you?

No, but you are one of those idiots who thinks everyone who disagrees with you does.

At least the workers were putting out products although we are probably better off without most of them. And you obviously never created anything of substance in your life.

Almost every country in the Middle East is awash in oil, and we have to side with the one that has nothing but joos. Goddamn, that was good thinkin'. Esso posted on 2012-01-13 7:37:56 ET

mininggold  posted on  2012-11-18   15:15:38 ET  Reply   Trace   Private Reply  



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