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Title: Romney / Ryan: Why do I Feel so Dirty?
Source:
Dissenting Opinons
URL Source: http://jwpegler.blogspot.com/2012/0 ... an-why-do-i-feel-so-dirty.html
Published: Aug 13, 2012
Author: jwpegler
Post Date: 2012-08-13 17:59:34 by jwpegler
Keywords: None
Views: 37355
Comments: 88
Over the weekend, Mitt Romney announced that he selected Paul Ryan as his Vice Presidential running mate.
Just about every commentator on the left and right, has hailed this as a bold move.
The left believes Romney made a tragic mistake selecting someone so "radical". The right believes that Romney made the right decision selecting someone so dedicated to "fiscal responsibility".
Both sides are wrong.
Ryan's so-called visionary / radical budget plan won't balance the budget until 2040. We had a balanced budget in 2000, yet the left thinks it's "radical" and the right thinks it's "bold" to wait 28 years to get America's fiscal house in order.
More importantly, during the Bush administration, Ryan was just another big spending politician.
Paul Ryan voted for Medicare Part D (the first new entitlement program since LBJ), No Child Left Behind (the largest federal intrusion into the classroom in history), Bush's two Middle East Wars, and TARP to bail out the Wall Street con artists. To top it off, he helped torpedo Simpson-Bowles, which would have lowered the top personal tax rate to 23% and the top corporate tax rate to 25%.
Of course, Obama / Biden are much worse, with their failed "stimulus", ObamaCare, annual deficits of more than a trillion dollars forever, shutting down energy production in the U.S., crazy left-wing social engineering, and more big government crap being shoved down our throats than ever before.
I've voted in 8 Presidential elections. I voted for the GOP nominee 4 times and I've voted for third party / independent candidates 4 times.
Unfortunately, Obama / Biden are so bad that we really don't have a choice this year. I will be holding my nose while I cast my vote for the lessor of two evils once again.
But I just feel really dirty doing so.
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Most likely your state is going Obama anyway, might as well vote for someone decent.
"We (government) need to do a lot less, a lot sooner" ~Ron Paul
Obama's watch stopped on 24 May 2008, but he's been too busy smoking crack to notice.
#2. To: jwpegler (#0)
I will be holding my nose while I cast my vote for the lessor of two evils once again.
When faced with false choices, the free man rejects them.
Only when a man lacks moral courage, when he has surrendered his freedom and his integrity, will he allow himself to participate the illusion of freedom, rather than freedom itself. He'll mouth the appropriate platitudes, and thereafter attack those who have not yielded to their fears, cursing and condemning them, because they remind him of what he once was, and is no more...
But I just feel really dirty doing so.
Rightfully so.
Coward.
"Most people prefer to believe that their leaders are just and fair, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which he lives is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all." Michael Rivero
#3. To: hondo68 (#1)
Most likely your state is going Obama anyway, might as well vote for someone decent.
Washington is almost certainly going to elect a Republican governor (Rob McKenna) this year, for the first time in 32 years. Rob is a good guy and I am wholeheartedly supporting him.
Washington is very fiscally conservative and very socially tolerant.
Reagan won Washington in 1980 and 1984.
Neither Romney or Ryan are known as extreme social conservatives.
Given the lousy economy, it's still improbable, but not impossible to think that a strong national GOP tide could sweep Washington this year.
So, I will have to hold my nose and vote for Romney / Ryan. There is no other choice.
"we must as a species go into a period of shrinkage that we have not experienced since the Dark Ages and the Black Plague" -- lucysmom (A.K.A. minnigold)
#4. To: Capitalist Eric (#2)
Yada, yada, yada...
You are the guy who claims that there is no difference between Romney and Obama, yet when you took a test to actually compare your views, you agreed with Obama 1% and Romney 61%.
Your extremist rhetoric has not and will never attract allies who can help you succeed.
Yes, Ryan is a big government neo-con. BUT, Obama is a communist-inspired, black liberation theology-influenced, academic, nincompoop who is hell bent on destroying the "evil" constitution that those awful "dead white males" created more than 200 year ago.
You are just too STUBBORN (or STUPID) to admit that Obama is very different and much worse than the run of the mill politicians that we've had to deal with for the last 100 years.
No one should listen to you this year.
With all due respect to Gary Johnson and Virgil Goode -- they picked the wrong year to run.
We have to get rid of Obama at all costs.
PERIOD.
"we must as a species go into a period of shrinkage that we have not experienced since the Dark Ages and the Black Plague" -- lucysmom (A.K.A. minnigold)
#5. To: jwpegler (#3)
There is no other choice.
SURE there is.
You're just too much of a coward to admit that.
And THAT is why you feel "dirty."
"Most people prefer to believe that their leaders are just and fair, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which he lives is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all." Michael Rivero
#6. To: jwpegler (#0)
I will be holding my nose while I cast my vote for the lessor of two evils once again.
I will not.
Until enough of us walk away, nothing will change.
"If men through fear, fraud or mistake, should in terms renounce and give up any essential natural right, the eternal law of reason and the great end of society, would absolutely vacate such renunciation; the right to freedom being the gift of God Almighty, it is not in the power of Man to alienate this gift, and voluntarily become a slave." Samuel Adams, Rights of the Colonists, 1772
#7. To: jwpegler (#4)
Yada, yada, yada...You are the guy who claims that there is no difference between Romney and Obama, yet when you took a test to actually compare your views, you agreed with Obama 1% and Romney 61%.
Disinfo Tactic #4. Use a straw man.
Find or create a seeming element of your opponent's argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges.
Ryan is a big government neo-con.
Ah, the truth comes out... Who'd have guessed that would ever happen????
Thanks for confirming everything I've been saying. I'll not bother to address the rest of your post, since it's all merely posturing to keep you from being too embarrassed by your own regrettable lack of substance.
You also confirm the tag-line I'm using:
"Most people prefer to believe that their leaders are just and fair, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which he lives is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all." Michael Rivero
"Most people prefer to believe that their leaders are just and fair, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which he lives is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all." Michael Rivero
#8. To: jwpegler (#4)
Couldn't agree more. And if we get enough Tea party Conservatives in the house and senate we will have far greater sway over the executive.
#9. To: Capitalist Eric (#7)
What will you be doing to see that Obama doesn't get another term?
#10. To: jwpegler (#0)
But I just feel really dirty doing so.
NOT ME!!!!
That's going to be one sweet way to tell the communist scumbag to "KISS MY ASS"
Romney told bam to eat shit when he picked bam's most formidable opponent as his running mate.
Ryan destroyed obamacare while bam and biden sat in a stupor.
I may have to move back to illinois so I can vote 50 to a 100 times.
Hell, i'm getting happy already.
#11. To: calcon (#10)
lol
#12. To: calcon (#10)
That's going to be one sweet way to tell the communist scumbag to "KISS MY ASS"
By voting in a slightly less communist scumbag?
"If men through fear, fraud or mistake, should in terms renounce and give up any essential natural right, the eternal law of reason and the great end of society, would absolutely vacate such renunciation; the right to freedom being the gift of God Almighty, it is not in the power of Man to alienate this gift, and voluntarily become a slave." Samuel Adams, Rights of the Colonists, 1772
#13. To: SJN (#9)
What will you be doing to see that Obama doesn't get another term?
What makes you think it matters anymore?????
You better break out of your normalcy bias.... there's not much time left.
"Most people prefer to believe that their leaders are just and fair, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which he lives is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all." Michael Rivero
#14. To: We The People (#6) (Edited)
Until enough of us walk away, nothing will change.
More than half of adults regularly don't vote. In some elections, 75% of adults don't vote.
VERY serious question: When will NOT voting actually change anything???
How does that work? Please tell us.
"we must as a species go into a period of shrinkage that we have not experienced since the Dark Ages and the Black Plague" -- lucysmom (A.K.A. minnigold)
#15. To: SJN (#8)
Couldn't agree more. And if we get enough Tea party Conservatives in the house and senate we will have far greater sway over the executive.
Yep,
2010 was the most encouraging election in my life.
80+ new House members.
300+ new State Legislatures.
For the first time in my life I can name more than 1 or 2 really good people in Congress.
This year, we kicked out the most senior GOP Senator (Dick Lugar) in the GOP primary. That's a major accomplishment.
Things are changing.
Yet, there are too many dimwits who aren't paying attention.
We all need to stop pissing and moaning and start paying attention.
"we must as a species go into a period of shrinkage that we have not experienced since the Dark Ages and the Black Plague" -- lucysmom (A.K.A. minnigold)
#16. To: Capitalist Eric (#7)
Disinfo Tactic #....
You keep posting the same thing over and over again.
What you post didn't originate with you. This is another person's model.
Do you have an original thought in your brain?
I suspect that you do, but you are too afraid to post it.
Why are you such a coward?
"we must as a species go into a period of shrinkage that we have not experienced since the Dark Ages and the Black Plague" -- lucysmom (A.K.A. minnigold)
#17. To: jwpegler, Capitalist Eric (#16)
You keep posting the same thing over and over again.What you post didn't originate with you. This is another person's model.
Do you have an original thought in your brain?
I suspect that you do, but you are too afraid to post it.
Why are you such a coward?
You have a lot of nerve calling out a poster for doing what you do everyday, which is: deliberately attributing a quote to a wrong poster and then posting it "over and over again".
Why are you such a coward?
Almost every country in the Middle East is awash in oil, and we have to side with the one that has nothing but joos. Goddamn, that was good thinkin'. Esso posted on 2012-01-13 7:37:56 ET
#18. To: jwpegler (#14)
VERY serious question: When will NOT voting actually change anything???How does that work? Please tell us.
I guess the question is if "nobody" showed up at the booths to vote (say GOP for instance) do you think the GOP would get the hint and start recruiting better candidates??? Or would they just go off and slash their wrists?? :-)...
Choosing and voting for a presidential candidate is like picking which STD you want to suffer from….
#19. To: mininggold (#17)
Aww, you're still sore because I exposed you for the money-grubbing whore you really are.
"Better put some *ice* on that..."
;-)
"Most people prefer to believe that their leaders are just and fair, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which he lives is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all." Michael Rivero
#20. To: jwpegler (#16)
You keep posting the same thing over and over again.
Sure. You keep trying to repackage your cowardice, so that it appears as though it's something else.
I'm not one who buys your bullshit.
What you post didn't originate with you. This is another person's model.
The rules of disinfo are well- known; I even posted an article on the subject just this morning. So what's your *point,* dipshit?
The quote from Michael Rivero is *cited* in my sig.
The observation about free men rejecting false choices, is MY observation, thus there is no citation required.
Oh, and BTW, you're using the typical straw-man argument, to divert attention from your complete LACK of a moral core.
Amusing. You failed, but at least you're entertaining- albeit in a pathetic manner.
Thanks for the laughs, dipshit.
"Most people prefer to believe that their leaders are just and fair, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which he lives is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all." Michael Rivero
#21. To: CZ82 (#18)
VERY serious question: When will NOT voting actually change anything??? How does that work? Please tell us.
I guess the question is if "nobody" showed up at the booths to vote (say GOP for instance) do you think the GOP would get the hint and start recruiting better candidates???
When most people stay home, it robs the elitists in goobermint of what they want MOST: legitimacy.
Without that, their power-base becomes unstable.
"Most people prefer to believe that their leaders are just and fair, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which he lives is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all." Michael Rivero
#22. To: Capitalist Eric (#19)
Aww, you're still sore because I exposed you for the money-grubbing whore you really are."Better put some *ice* on that..."
In your dreams....
Almost every country in the Middle East is awash in oil, and we have to side with the one that has nothing but joos. Goddamn, that was good thinkin'. Esso posted on 2012-01-13 7:37:56 ET
#23. To: Capitalist Eric (#5)
If it is all the same anyway and wont make any difference. Then why not vote Romney if for no other reason then to hurt Obamas ego. And to send the message that there are one term presidents.
Obama can't be influenced by public opinion.
Romney can be pushed. His finger is in the wind. If pressure is kept up. Romney can be pushed in your direction. If people who think like you are numerous enough.
#24. To: CZ82 (#18)
I guess the question is if "nobody" showed up at the booths to vote (say GOP for instance) do you think the GOP would get the hint and start recruiting better candidates???
Just a second. If you don't even vote in the primaries. How are you say going to get a better candidate?
Do you sit around and wait for others in the primary to pick someone good? Then start voting?
Seems to me we are going to have to get more people voting in the primaries to achieve those better candidates.
But we are beyond that point now. Now it is Romney or Obama. Speaking totally logically and no emotion. One of them will be the next President. It will affect us all, our kids, our grand kids. We can sit on the sidelines or try to get rid of Obama.
So everyone go get registered to vote. Just in case you change your mind on election day.
#25. To: A K A Stone (#24)
Just a second. If you don't even vote in the primaries. How are you say going to get a better candidate?
Don't you think they know what turnout should be on the average voting day... Now if all of a sudden voting dropped off 90% or so don't you think that would send them a message...
Now do you get a questionaire before voting time wanting to know your opinion and asking for a campaign contribution??? If so what if you filled it out telling them exactly how you feel about them being a POS and told them to take a hike on a contribution (which is what I do)... What if everybody started doing that, do you think they would get the hint then??
Ideally this should have been done a long time ago before things got this bad, but oh well what can you say the average voter is a drip... They aren't engaged until the other side does something so totally phucked up (ObozoCare) then all of a sudden wake up and say we don't want that... Statistics show that politicians are usually about 10 years behind what the voters are thinking. Is that because the politicians are dense?? ... or is it because the voters won't get engaged and send their Party nastgrams explaining to them how they suck and what kind of candidate they want to vote for...
Choosing and voting for a presidential candidate is like picking which STD you want to suffer from….
#26. To: CZ82 (#25)
Now if all of a sudden voting dropped off 90% or so don't you think that would send them a message...
Yes it would send a message. The message to the democrats would be. Man we just won in a lanslide. We have a mandate.
Individuals choose to run. If they see a democratic marxist landslide. They see that the "good" side only got 5 percent. They wouldn't even bother running. The democrats would demagogue the issue and the country would be gone.;
Less and less people are voting. It doesn't seem to be working.
#27. To: CZ82 (#25)
What if everybody started doing that, do you think they would get the hint then??
Who is they? I don't think "they" would get the hint. Because "they" already have their opinions and beliefs and aren't going to suddenly start championing someone they disagree with. No "we" have to vote for someone who thinks like us. They will never think like us. We have to outnumber and overwhelm them.
#28. To: CZ82 (#25)
Now do you get a questionaire before voting time wanting to know your opinion and asking for a campaign contribution??? If so what if you filled it out telling them exactly how you feel about them being a POS and told them to take a hike on a contribution (which is what I do)... What if everybody started doing that, do you think they would get the hint then??Ideally this should have been done a long time ago before things got this bad, but oh well what can you say the average voter is a drip... They aren't engaged until the other side does something so totally phucked up (ObozoCare) then all of a sudden wake up and say we don't want that... Statistics show that politicians are usually about 10 years behind what the voters are thinking. Is that because the politicians are dense?? ... or is it because the voters won't get engaged and send their Party nastgrams explaining to them how they suck and what kind of candidate they want to vote for...
I always fill out their questionairs and give them hell on them. For instance I remember one of the questions was do you want the GOP to stand by the Constitution, I told them I don't want them to stand by it, I want them to adhere to it and follow the rule of law. I know many other people that do the same on those questionaires and they too have quit giving to the GOP and rather give to individual candidates.
You are advocating that the citizen average Joe Shmoe not vote and leave it in the hands of the Corporation lobbyiests. Just how does removing the citizen vote sway the parties one way or another?
#29. To: A K A Stone (#23)
f it is all the same anyway and wont make any difference. Then why not vote Romney if for no other reason then to hurt Obamas ego. And to send the message that there are one term presidents.
Hmm. Interesting take.
The simple answer for me, though, is really simple: voting for "the lesser of two evils" gives tacit *approval* of evil.
To that, I REFUSE. And so should ALL men with moral courage.
"Most people prefer to believe that their leaders are just and fair, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which he lives is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all." Michael Rivero
#30. To: Capitalist Eric (#29)
To that, I REFUSE. And so should ALL men with moral courage.
I disagree, all men with moral courage should be in the arena fighting for their cause. Sitting out with your so called "moral courage" is anathema to "moral courage". You're just putting the onerous on others to do the dirty work it takes, which is to engage in the fight.
#31. To: SJN (#30)
I disagree, all men with moral courage should be in the arena fighting for their cause.
You contradict yourself.
In my case, I am fighting for my cause. I will NOT, however, fight or in any way support those that are in opposition to my cause- which is exactly what you preach.
Sitting out with your so called "moral courage" is anathema to "moral courage".
You've no idea what moral courage is, as your contradiction in the first sentence aptly demonstrates. You're merely another sheeple, following along with the latest iteration of group-think.
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
-Charles Mackay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds
You're just putting the onerous on others to do the dirty work it takes, which is to engage in the fight.
What fight is THAT?
With WHO?
Who are the ENEMIES?
Who are the PATRIOTS?
Where are the "candidates" that aren't merely deemed "electable," but have HONOR and INTEGRITY, and stand by their WORD???
SHOW me such men (and women), and than you'll have a point.
Until then....? Well, keep chewing your cud.
sheeple romney pics on Sodahead
"Most people prefer to believe that their leaders are just and fair, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which he lives is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all." Michael Rivero
#32. To: Capitalist Eric (#31)
So your "moral courage" is sitting on your hands while others at the local, state and national level are working to get those men and women in office who DO have the qualities you're bloviating about.
Sorry, not buying your argument in the least. You are just another apathetic citizen who talks all moral outrage and then does nothing.
#33. To: Capitalist Eric (#31)
Oh, and worse than that, you attempt to sway others to do nothing as well, all the while putting forth that to do nothing is "moral courage"!
#34. To: A K A Stone (#26)
Less and less people are voting. It doesn't seem to be working.
Saying absolutely nothing to your State and Local GOP office and then going to the voting booth and voting for the run of the mill Establishment POS isn't working either!!! They are just like the fools you vote against....
You either annoy the hell out of them and tell them why they suck ass or just shut up and keep on voting for fools... Everybody has a choice and they seem to be making it...
Choosing and voting for a presidential candidate is like picking which STD you want to suffer from….
#35. To: A K A Stone (#27)
Now do you get a questionaire before voting time wanting to know your opinion and asking for a campaign contribution??? If so what if you filled it out telling them exactly how you feel about them being a POS and told them to take a hike on a contribution (which is what I do)... What if everybody started doing that, do you think they would get the hint then??
What Party do you vote for??? That is "THEY"...
If you don't say anything and then vote for them, they think you like the BS they are shoveling... And isn't that what's happening now, they keep right on running the same Pieces Of Schitt because they think the voters like them.... And isn't that what's taking the country down the tubes right now, nobody saying to them in a united voice "YOU GUYS SUCK ASS, IT'S TIME YOU LEFT TOWN"!!!!!!
Choosing and voting for a presidential candidate is like picking which STD you want to suffer from….
#36. To: SJN (#28)
You are advocating that the citizen average Joe Shmoe not vote and leave it in the hands of the Corporation lobbyists
Isn't that pretty much where it is right now???
How much does your vote seem be to worth right now??? Not much because things are going down the drain in a hurry...
Choosing and voting for a presidential candidate is like picking which STD you want to suffer from….
#37. To: SJN (#28)
I always fill out their questionairs and give them hell on them. For instance I remember one of the questions was do you want the GOP to stand by the Constitution, I told them I don't want them to stand by it, I want them to adhere to it and follow the rule of law. I know many other people that do the same on those questionaires and they too have quit giving to the GOP and rather give to individual candidates.
Good for you, now if "EVERYBODY" would do that do you think that would get their attention???? Seeing 100-200 million people all saying the same thing should open their eyes... And if it doesn't then the people need to close them permanently for them.....
Choosing and voting for a presidential candidate is like picking which STD you want to suffer from….
#38. To: SJN (#32) (Edited)
A quote from Claire Wolfe best applies, here:
We are no longer law-abiding citizens. We have lost our law-abiding status. There are simply too many laws to abide.And because of increasingly draconian penalties and electronic tracking mechanisms, our "lawbreaking" places us and our families in greater jeopardy every day.
The question is: What are we going to do about it?
Write a nice, polite letter to your congressperson? Hey, if you think that'll help, I've got a bridge you might be interested in buying. (And it isn't your "bridge to the future," either.)
Vote "better people" into office? Oh yeah, that's what we thought we were doing in 1994.
Work to fight one bad bill or another? Okay. What will you do about the 10 or 20 or 100 equally horrible bills that will be passed behind your back while you were fighting that little battle? And let's say you defeat a nightmare bill this year. What are you going to do when they sneak it back in, at the very last minute, in some "omnibus legislation" next year? And what about the horrors you don't even learn about until two or three years after they become law?
Should you try fighting these laws in the courts? Where do you find the resources? Where do you find a judge who doesn't have a vested interest in bigger, more powerful government? And again, for every one case decided in favor of freedom, what do you do about the 10, 20 or 100 in which the courts decide against the Bill of Rights?
Perhaps you'd consider trying to stop the onrush of these horrors with a constitutional amendment--maybe one that bans "omnibus" bills, requires that every law meet a constitutional test or requires all congresspeople to sign statements that they've read and understood every aspect of every bill on which they vote. Good luck! Good luck, first, on getting such an amendment passed. Then good luck getting our Constitution-scorning "leaders" to obey it.
It is true that liberty requires eternal vigilance, and part of that vigilance has been, traditionally, keeping a watchful eye on laws and on lawbreaking lawmakers. But given the current pace of law spewing and unconstitutional regulation-writing, you could watch, plead and struggle "within the system" 24 hours a day for your entire life and end up infinitely less free than when you began. Why throw your life away on a futile effort?
Face it. If "working within the system" could halt tyranny, the tyrants would outlaw it. Why do you think they encourage you to vote, to write letters, to talk to them in public forums? It's to divert your energies. To keep you tame. "The system" as it presently exists is nothing but a rat maze. You run around thinking you're getting somewhere. Your masters occasionally reward you with a little pellet that encourages you to believe you're accomplishing something. And in the meantime, you are as much their property and their pawn as if you were a slave. In the effort of fighting them on their terms and with their authorized and approved tools, you have given your life's energy to them as surely as if you were toiling in their cotton fields, under the lash of their overseer.
The only way we're going to get off this road to Hell is if we jump off. If we, personally, as individuals, refuse to cooperate with evil. How we do that is up to each of us. I can't decide for you, nor you for me. (Unlike congresspeople, who think they can decide for everybody.)
But this totalitarian runaway truck is never going to stop unless we stop it, in any way we can. Stopping it might include any number of things: tax resistance; public civil disobedience; wide-scale, silent non-cooperation; highly noisy non-cooperation; boycotts; secession efforts; monkey wrenching; computer hacking; dirty tricks against government agents; public shunning of employees of abusive government agencies; alternative, self-sufficient communities that provide their own medical care and utilities.
There are thousands of avenues to take, and this is something most of still need to give more thought to before we can build an effective resistance. We will each choose the courses that are right for our own circumstances, personalities and beliefs.
Whatever we do, though, we must remember that we are all, already, outlaws. Not one of us can be certain of getting through a single day without violating some law or regulation we've never even heard of. We are all guilty in the eyes of today's "law." If someone in power chooses to target us, we can all, already, be prosecuted for something.
And I'm sure you know that your claims of "good intentions" won't protect you, as the similar claims of politicians protect them. Politicians are above the law. YOU are under it. Crushed under it.
When you look at it that way, we have little left to lose by breakings laws creatively and purposefully. Yes, some of us will suffer horrible consequences for our lawbreaking. It is very risky to actively resist unbridled power. It is especially risky to go public with resistance (unless hundreds of thousands publicly join us), and it becomes riskier the closer we get to tyranny. For that reason, among many others, I would never recommend any particular course of action to anyone--and I hope you'll think twice before taking "advice" from anybody about things that could jeopardize your life or well-being. But if we don't resist in the best ways we know how--and if a good number of us don't resist loudly and publicly--all of us will suffer the much worse consequences of living under total oppression.
And whatever courses of action we choose, we must remember that this legislative "revolution" against We the People will not be stopped by politeness. It will not be stopped by requests. It will not be stopped by "working within a system" governed by those who regard us as nothing but cattle. It will not be stopped by pleading for justice from those who will resort to any degree of trickery or violence to rule us.
It will not be stopped unless we are willing to risk our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honors to stop it.
I think of the words of Winston Churchill: "If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed, if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not so costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no chance of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves."
You still believe in the integrity of the system, even when all evidence shows that the system is utterly broken. Even when confronted with the fact that o'Bungler and mcRomneyStain are both bought-and-paid-for by the same people, despite the fact that they both lie 84% of the time (as documented on another thread at this forum), you still believe there is a difference. You actively choose orthodoxy over truth.
Sorry, not buying your argument in the least.
So sorry, but you mistake your blind faith as fact, and objective, demonstrable fact as an "argument" than you can simply dismiss. You choose orthodoxy over truth.
You are just another apathetic citizen who talks all moral outrage and then does nothing.
My current actions- noncooperation with the police-state, and boycotting the Kabuki theater we laughably refer to as "elections"- carry more weight, than stupidly following the same tired script, over and over, while nothing really changes.
I follow the truth. You adhere to orthodoxy, and ignore the truth.
"The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it." - Morpheus, "The Matrix"
I feel sorry for you... I really do. Despite all your proclamations, you absolutely refuse to think... You will eventually find that official orthodoxy has nothing to do with truth. And when you do learn the truth, the price you pay will be... severe.
Pity.
BTW, you said:
You're just putting the onerous on others to do the dirty work it takes, which is to engage in the fight.
MY RESPONSE WAS AS FOLLOWS:
What fight is THAT?
With WHO?
Who are the ENEMIES?
Who are the PATRIOTS?
Where are the "candidates" that aren't merely deemed "electable," but have HONOR and INTEGRITY, and stand by their WORD???
SHOW me such men (and women), and than you'll have a point.
Since you think you're so sharp, why don't you ANSWER me???
"Most people prefer to believe that their leaders are just and fair, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which he lives is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all." Michael Rivero
#39. To: SJN (#32)
You're just putting the onerous on others to do the dirty work it takes, which is to engage in the fight.
What fight is THAT?
With WHO?
Who are the ENEMIES?
Who are the PATRIOTS?
Where are the "candidates" that aren't merely deemed "electable," but have HONOR and INTEGRITY, and stand by their WORD???
"Most people prefer to believe that their leaders are just and fair, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which he lives is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all." Michael Rivero
#40. To: SJN (#33)
You're just putting the onerous on others to do the dirty work it takes, which is to engage in the fight.Oh, and worse than that, you attempt to sway others to do nothing as well, all the while putting forth that to do nothing is "moral courage"!
What fight is THAT?
With WHO?
Who are the ENEMIES?
Who are the PATRIOTS?
Where are the "candidates" that aren't merely deemed "electable," but have HONOR and INTEGRITY, and stand by their WORD???
"Most people prefer to believe that their leaders are just and fair, even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which he lives is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it. To take action in the face of corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all." Michael Rivero
#41. To: Capitalist Eric (#40)
Well let me know how your refusal to vote works out for all USA patriots concerned with the status quo. And when you find a viable alternative such as mass resistance, let me know how that goes as well. If you have a true alternative to correcting the state of tyranny we are now in I would be only to happy to join if it can be shown that this resistance will alter that status quo.
In the mean time it might behoove you to fill your rank and file more effectively if you engage in meaningful dialog rather than bloviating ad hominum.
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